Question

[dtkm]

Does anyone know if the domestic violence hotline is able to help you with financial abuse?  If not, any advice for help on this topic in Colorado

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

I don't know if they help with this situation but if you call them, they will tell you. One possibility is that they may not deal with this themselves but may be able to give you references for someone who does.

IMHO -this kind of situation requires a consultation with a lawyer. Yes, letting him fall is one way to approach this but being married and sharing a home- this would take you and your children with him. Also, if he gets into debt- that may also impact you. 

My own experience is with my parents and my BPD mother doing significant financial damage to their assets due to her emotional and reckless spending.
This kind of spending is emotional and in the moment and so it is difficult to discuss this rationally.

One thing to keep in mind is that we can not control what someone else does- we can only decide our own actions. I think it's well worth the investment to get legal advice for this situation.

[dtkm]

Would you consult a divorce lawyer? Or what type of lawyer would you consult?

[Outdorenthusiast]

Would you consult a divorce lawyer? Or what type of lawyer would you consult?

Divorce lawyers will consult with you for free.

In parallel - I recommend to begin to determine what you don’t feel is right, and then what you feel needs to be changed.  Only you can figure that one out.

I was financially abused, and it required me to have stronger boundaries.  Some of them were against the grain of what people tell you should happen in “normal” marriages.  BPD is not “normal.”  For me - her impulsivity drained our bank accounts over, and over with impulsive shopping.  Credit cards were opened in secret and maxed out.  Gambling addictions of cell phone dopamine hit games were rampant.  My lack of financial boundaries and following the popular directions of what is “normal” and “respectful” was my problem.

For me my boundaries slammed down hard: I blocked her from family funds, put her on a separate bank account, took away family credit cards, put her on an allowance, and froze her credit report (that was a joint decision based upon my recommendation).  This was not done in secret and it was done after what seemed like the thousandth time of substantial indiscretion and broken promises over 25 years (she blew through $30k USD in one month on literally nothing and that was the last straw).  She can still ask to see whatever she wants of the family finances at any time but has permanently lost her rights to control it/spend it unilaterally while married to me.  She still has control over her own money that she earns and controls 100% and we never see.  We can still discuss how to spend family finances together - but it is now only a joint activity.  I thought about getting a post nup agreement to limit my credit risk exposure - but lawyers advised it was easier to just divorce.

She has the right to her financial path, but not at the expense of others in our family or me - that was financial abuse.  Mutually agreed upon family budgets are healthy and should be respected to have a financially healthy family life.  My stress level is now much lower after putting down that boundary for my house and my life.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother has blown through a large amount of money. Since it was all legally hers, we kids had no way to intervene to keep her from doing this to herself. There was not ever any expectation of an inheritance- we were concerned that she'd spend the money too fast and she'd need it. Money issues due to her spending were obvious to us even as teens. So I have seen this kind of financial situation and I would agree that boundaries to protect your finances are a necessary step.

This is the bettering board. If you are interested in seeing a divorce lawyer, the posters on the undecided and legal board may have more experience with this and be able to answer questions better.

To be clear- seeing a divorce lawyer to know your options is not the same as deciding to divorce. Seeing one would be to know all your options and the rules for finances in marriage. So yes, it could be informative to know all your options, but what to do with the information is still up to you.

[dtkm]

Thanks guys! I so appreciate the advice. I think that I am going to contact a different lawyer than “my” divorce lawyer to see what options they say with protecting myself from the financial abuse. As my lawyer has “been in too deep” and I don’t think would be willing to discuss options. Outdor…how did you begin the financial discussions with your wife?  My plan is to completely separate all of our finances, but unfortunately, we can’t do so with the house, so some agreement needs to be made and signed by both of us. I would also like to figure out how to take each others name off of each other’s cars, as he drives very erratically when splitting, going 110mph riding the car in front of him, ect…and I don’t want to be liable for whatever that may end in I guess all of that is a question for the lawyer. I would love to follow what you did with the allowance, but there is no way being the “man” that he would go for that!  I think separating money makes the most sense with a signed agreement on everything we do agree on!

[Outdorenthusiast]

First - let me qualify - every person is different and every relationship is different so your mileage will definitively vary.

For me - I guess on the umpteenth time I found her lies about money - something in my head snapped and my boundary was crossed for the last time.  I asked to talk to her privately outside where the kids couldn’t hear her explosion - and I confronted her in a calm but extremely serious discussion and I said I found out about her lies and I am done with this.  (Random bill collectors were sending mail/calling and I pulled a credit report).  She withered and melted crying and profusely apologized again.  I told her I don’t trust her anymore she has broken my trust for the last time - and she asked what could she do - and I laid out what my conditions were.

Of course I am paraphrasing a lot - but knowing what values of mine had been broken (financial safety of my family), and what I was unwilling to compromise on (unbridled ability to continue to do damage to the family) helped me define what I was no longer willing to compromise on.  I was willing to walk at that point - that is how hard it hurt to my core and how serious I was.  I gave her three options of allowance and what portion of low risk “family” costs she would be responsible for and what my rationale was.  We discussed, modified, and she chose the amount and then I implemented it later that day.  I made the allowance weekly because I knew impulsively she would blow through it.  Her first 6 months were rough including running out of gas a couple of times.

Fast forward - We are still married and she now lives within her weekly amount 90% of the time and I am not stressing out about family financial obligations every month.  She lives with her own consequences rather than our family having to shoulder her indiscretions.  Best decision ever for us.

Outdoor

[Notwendy]

It's hard to know what aspect of this behavior is abusive or due to impulsive distorted thinking, or a part of self destructive behaviors.

Outdoor- I think you are wise to have let your wife experience "running out of money" on  lower risk situations and a weekly allowance. When there doesn't seem to be an intrinsic control on their part- the protection of assets has to be on your part.

[dtkm]

Here is the issue, when he is his “normal” self he is very responsible financially, takes into account most needs (except MY kids sports), makes goals with me on financial issues (like we will cut back to eating out every other week instead of every week or let’s change tv packages to the lower one, etc), applies for jobs, helps around the house, etc. But…when he splits all of that is out the door. So I am left hanging. This is the first time that I have kind of felt like it’s time for me to look out for me and not “our family”. I will be using the week to come up with some financial strategies and most likely talking to a financial “helper” to see their advice. With him, I feel like he uses an issue until I prove that I won’t take that action from him and the consequences will be high for him if he does it again and then he moved on. Last night he couldn’t sleep…a usual thing when he is splitting. He is going on 3 nights with no sleep. He came up to bed in the middle of the night. Then asked me to lay with him, as that is usually the only way that he can sleep. I refused. He said he just wanted to be able to sleep. I said I just want to live my life without someone being mean to me of and on for no reason. He said ok. He then told me he was going to go downstairs to watch tv. About 30 minutes later I sent him a text telling him that I would lay with him if he would agree to pay the past due mortgage and all the mortgage payments in the future without complaints. He asked me to come downstairs to talk in person. So I did. He started in on that he plans to pay all of the mortgages going forward but that he believes that I should have enough money from what he gave me to pay off the credit cards. I did the math for him and he said well I just don’t have anything extra and can’t be spending money on nothing especially with no money coming in…I said well then maybe you shouldn’t have bought a car and running boards for your other car…to which he got completely silent and said I will transfer money to you to pay the past due mortgage. I feel horrible for him as I can see him struggle as I know him in that moment knew those purchases were stupid but in the moment he had to have them. I think completely separating myself financially, setting up a strict budget for myself meeting with a financial advisor and pointing out his financial indiscretions when he switches back, and not rescuing him financially are my only path forward right now. Thank you all for your advice through this!

[Notwendy]

This is the first time that I have kind of felt like it’s time for me to look out for me and not “our family”. I will be using the week to come up with some financial strategies and most likely talking to a financial “helper” to see their advice.

I think completely separating myself financially, setting up a strict budget for myself meeting with a financial advisor and pointing out his financial indiscretions when he switches back, and not rescuing him financially are my only path forward right now. Thank you all for your advice through this!

I don't know if it's useful to point out his indiscretions. IMHO- the only thing I know is action and consequences.

It's difficult when there's a connection- either relational, emotional, financial- because letting the person face all the consequences for their actions affects more than them. If your H lost the home, you live in it too.

I think BPD is difficult because the emotions change and there are times where they seem to be thinking clearly and make an agreement- then things change when their emotions do. But that is what a boundary is for. We don't lock our doors to keep our  honest neigbors out of our house- they wouldn't walk in and rob the house. We lock our doors to keep anyone who might do that out- and I think - if someone has shown that they are not reliable all the time- that's what the boundary is for too.

[Outdorenthusiast]

I agree with NotWendy.  Relationships and people are never black and white.  You will need to find out what works uniquely for you.

As context there are extremes everywhere - “normal” people when they lose a job or get stressed may do retail therapy - that doesn’t indicate a mental health issue.  So it is good for us all to keep things in context.

It is when their actions cause a problem to others that this goes awry.  The important thing is to build and have an environment of financial Trust - or recognize the illness for what it is (in my case - untrustworthy) and put protections in place (whatever works in your circumstance).  A financial planner, counselor, lawyer, accountant or whatever can help you through those steps.