Need A Backbone When I See Him

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello friends, I am so grateful to this group!
A couple of weeks ago, my uBPDexBF received a voicemail from my doctor's office--he's still my emergency contact, but they should have left it on my voicemail not his. He kindly sent it my way. I thanked him. I then suggested that we set up a time to exchange our belongings. He asked to call me.
I made him wait a little while (specifically until someone would be present in my home to make sure he couldn't sweet-talk me). Mind you, we have not seen each other since July 2 and haven't spoken since July 5. After exchange of "how are you, how are your kids" he asked me if we were over in my mind. When I said "yes" he expressed shock.

He blames all of his horrible behavior on his sleep medication and mixing it with other substances, and says "How Could I have Known?" despite having reported/disclosed the same thing to me at least 4 times during a 3 year relationship. He says he's off the meds, off all medication, and that he doesn't understand how he can prove to me he's changed if I don't spend time with him.

I went with: Let's meet at a coffee shop, where we can first exchange our belongings and then we can sit down, have coffee, and talk for awhile.

I'm afraid I will be suckered back in. He's broken up with me at least 30 times in 3 years, yelling at me, calling me horrible names, and sending me nasty texts, then being thoroughly confused the next day when I don't contact him. Almost exactly a year ago was the worst incident ever, worst of my life, where he screamed in my face (having just woken me up, I was naked and barely awake) and followed me around my house for hours. In late June, he flipped out when I got a ride home from a sporting event with a male teammate, following me around screaming at me, finally letting me go to sleep on my couch and then leaving around 4 am.

And yet.... the love bombing, the heartfelt conversations, the vulnerability, the sex.... I do not want to be in this. How do I kindly but firmly hold my own when we meet? Especially if, as I suspect, he fails to bring some of my more valuable items?

Thank you

[try2heal]

Hello friends, I am so grateful to this group!
A couple of weeks ago, my uBPDexBF received a voicemail from my doctor's office--he's still my emergency contact, but they should have left it on my voicemail not his. He kindly sent it my way. I thanked him. I then suggested that we set up a time to exchange our belongings. He asked to call me.
I made him wait a little while (specifically until someone would be present in my home to make sure he couldn't sweet-talk me). Mind you, we have not seen each other since July 2 and haven't spoken since July 5. After exchange of "how are you, how are your kids" he asked me if we were over in my mind. When I said "yes" he expressed shock.

He blames all of his horrible behavior on his sleep medication and mixing it with other substances, and says "How Could I have Known?" despite having reported/disclosed the same thing to me at least 4 times during a 3 year relationship. He says he's off the meds, off all medication, and that he doesn't understand how he can prove to me he's changed if I don't spend time with him.

I went with: Let's meet at a coffee shop, where we can first exchange our belongings and then we can sit down, have coffee, and talk for awhile.

I'm afraid I will be suckered back in. He's broken up with me at least 30 times in 3 years, yelling at me, calling me horrible names, and sending me nasty texts, then being thoroughly confused the next day when I don't contact him. Almost exactly a year ago was the worst incident ever, worst of my life, where he screamed in my face (having just woken me up, I was naked and barely awake) and followed me around my house for hours. In late June, he flipped out when I got a ride home from a sporting event with a male teammate, following me around screaming at me, finally letting me go to sleep on my couch and then leaving around 4 am.

And yet.... the love bombing, the heartfelt conversations, the vulnerability, the sex.... I do not want to be in this. How do I kindly but firmly hold my own when we meet? Especially if, as I suspect, he fails to bring some of my more valuable items?

Thank you

[jaded7]

Hello friends, I am so grateful to this group!
A couple of weeks ago, my uBPDexBF received a voicemail from my doctor's office--he's still my emergency contact, but they should have left it on my voicemail not his. He kindly sent it my way. I thanked him. I then suggested that we set up a time to exchange our belongings. He asked to call me.
I made him wait a little while (specifically until someone would be present in my home to make sure he couldn't sweet-talk me). Mind you, we have not seen each other since July 2 and haven't spoken since July 5. After exchange of "how are you, how are your kids" he asked me if we were over in my mind. When I said "yes" he expressed shock.

He blames all of his horrible behavior on his sleep medication and mixing it with other substances, and says "How Could I have Known?" despite having reported/disclosed the same thing to me at least 4 times during a 3 year relationship. He says he's off the meds, off all medication, and that he doesn't understand how he can prove to me he's changed if I don't spend time with him.

I went with: Let's meet at a coffee shop, where we can first exchange our belongings and then we can sit down, have coffee, and talk for awhile.

I'm afraid I will be suckered back in. He's broken up with me at least 30 times in 3 years, yelling at me, calling me horrible names, and sending me nasty texts, then being thoroughly confused the next day when I don't contact him. Almost exactly a year ago was the worst incident ever, worst of my life, where he screamed in my face (having just woken me up, I was naked and barely awake) and followed me around my house for hours. In late June, he flipped out when I got a ride home from a sporting event with a male teammate, following me around screaming at me, finally letting me go to sleep on my couch and then leaving around 4 am.

And yet.... the love bombing, the heartfelt conversations, the vulnerability, the sex.... I do not want to be in this. How do I kindly but firmly hold my own when we meet? Especially if, as I suspect, he fails to bring some of my more valuable items?

Thank you

He says he's off the meds, off all medication, and that he doesn't understand how he can prove to me he's changed if I don't spend time with him.

I went with: Let's meet at a coffee shop, where we can first exchange our belongings and then we can sit down, have coffee, and talk for awhile.

Could your suggestion to meet at the coffee shop be read as an opening to his assertion that you need to spend time with him to prove to you he's changed?

He suggests you need to spend time together to show he changed, and you say ok coffee? Right after you told him it was really over.

I don't get the feeling that you want to give him that chance. Or do you?

I get how difficult these things are, just wondering if the coffee shop meeting moves your toward what you want, or puts you at risk for being pulled back in. Could you have a friend get your things? Could he mail them? Could he drop them off on a porch while you are gone?

[try2heal]

Could your suggestion to meet at the coffee shop be read as an opening to his assertion that you need to spend time with him to prove to you he's changed?

He suggests you need to spend time together to show he changed, and you say ok coffee? Right after you told him it was really over.

I don't get the feeling that you want to give him that chance. Or do you?

I think it's my way of accepting, but drastically limiting, that request. He asked me to see his "daily lifestyle," by which I take him to mean that I going to his house, we make meals together, shop, move back into old patterns. I do not see that as a possibility, and I know it presents enormous risk for me emotionally to see him in either of our homes.

At the same time, I want to give him the respect of an in-person conversation. I want to be able to say that I see a difference (if I do) and that I hope he can continue in the life direction he wants. I guess I want to try to eek out something amicable. I am also paying off some of *his* debt that we transferred to a 0% balance-transfer card when we were together, and he's auto-paying me $50 monthly. I need him to keep doing that.

My non-negotiable: I won't sit down for a coffee until our stuff is exchanged. I don't think he'll bring me everything, because he wants to keep a hook in me, but whatever is brought we will transfer into each other's cars before we sit down. He will give me the car-wash sticker on his vehicle so I can bring it and cancel it!

You pointing out that I am opening the door a crack is important for me to keep in mind. I have to have a backbone.

[seekingtheway]

I think in most relationships, it's possible to find that amicable ending you're talking about – I mean, that's the ideal isn't it, that we all show each other care and respect, without any other motivation underneath it except for caring about that person and wanting them to be okay.

But it tends to get complicated when it comes to the ending of a relationship with someone with BPD, and as much as you might try and set the situation up so that you feel safe and respected, you can't control what's going to come at you from the other side of the fence.

It sounds like there is indeed an agenda from his side, which does put you at risk of being propositioned and then having to either deal with another round of the same, or follow up with bigger, stronger boundaries.

I know that in my case, I wasn't able to have that strength and backbone you're talking about. I desperately wanted a peaceful ending and I softened and broke all my own boundaries again and again in order to try and find it. But underneath that need for peace was something deeper, and i don't mind admitting it, I wasn't entirely ready to let go, so I entertained him. Logically I knew I had to let go, and I knew I was done, but my heart hadn't caught up yet. That takes time and a lot of it in my case. His stories and promises were very persuasive of course, but I knew that about him, so putting myself in a scenario where he could spin those stories was also my responsibility. And in the end, all of that ongoing contact did cause a lot of harm.

The process of detachment is such a journey, and it's very personal... and you figure stuff out as you go along. Your conditions in terms of meeting sound very logical and like you've got a very aware and rational mindset about it all.

[try2heal]

Thank you so much for sharing your journey with me. I have definitely always done what you described. I need to be steadfast.
Of course, he canceled the meetup--said he was away and might not make it in time. I pointed out that he wouldn't have my stuff in his car and told him not to try. He asked if I'd have time for a phone call or to meet one night this week. I said NO because I've got a boxing competition coming up this weekend. I told him I will not compromise my mental or physical readiness for him.
His response was all about how he always supports me. Mind you, just days before the same tournament last year was the previous worst night ever. Because of him, I entered a boxing ring with minimal sleep, minimal food, and a twisted ankle.
It took 3 times of my telling him no. I told him to remember back to what it was like last year if he could not understand. He brought it back to meds.
I'm resolved. If he writes again before the tournament, I will block him until 3 days after.

Of course, my own stupid body keeps looking at my messages to see if he's writing...

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you so much for sharing your journey with me. I have definitely always done what you described. I need to be steadfast.
Of course, he canceled the meetup--said he was away and might not make it in time. I pointed out that he wouldn't have my stuff in his car and told him not to try. He asked if I'd have time for a phone call or to meet one night this week. I said NO because I've got a boxing competition coming up this weekend. I told him I will not compromise my mental or physical readiness for him.
His response was all about how he always supports me. Mind you, just days before the same tournament last year was the previous worst night ever. Because of him, I entered a boxing ring with minimal sleep, minimal food, and a twisted ankle.
It took 3 times of my telling him no. I told him to remember back to what it was like last year if he could not understand. He brought it back to meds.
I'm resolved. If he writes again before the tournament, I will block him until 3 days after.

Of course, my own stupid body keeps looking at my messages to see if he's writing...

So I am going to chime in here and say an important step is to start by cutting yourself some slack and to quit putting yourself down. You are not stupid. This hurts, it sucks. It is okay to feel those feelings, but it is not okay to say you're stupid or put yourself down in any way, shape, or form. That is not conducive to healing.

With that said there is the other part here...you say you need to be steadfast. I agree, but make it a point to say this is what I am going to do. Make it more of an action plan. You have to Nike it!

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Clearmind]

Just in a broader context on the topic of protecting ourselves through boundaries.

Establishing boundaries can be daunting especially when it doesn't come naturally to us (that's something else to unpack later). We can fear conflict, feel a sense of obligation or guilt, need for approval, low self-worth and/or emotional dependency.

By addressing fears, building self-worth, and developing communication skills, we can become more comfortable asserting our needs and establishing healthy boundaries. Suffice to say if we were strong in this department we may not have entered into this type of relationship to begin with.

Do you owe any explanation at all? If so Why?

Great books:
Controlling People - How to recognize, understand and deal with people who try to control you - P. Evans
Boundaries - Dr H Cloud and Dr J Townsend

[jaded7]

Thank you so much for sharing your journey with me. I have definitely always done what you described. I need to be steadfast.
Of course, he canceled the meetup--said he was away and might not make it in time. I pointed out that he wouldn't have my stuff in his car and told him not to try. He asked if I'd have time for a phone call or to meet one night this week. I said NO because I've got a boxing competition coming up this weekend. I told him I will not compromise my mental or physical readiness for him.
His response was all about how he always supports me. Mind you, just days before the same tournament last year was the previous worst night ever. Because of him, I entered a boxing ring with minimal sleep, minimal food, and a twisted ankle.
It took 3 times of my telling him no. I told him to remember back to what it was like last year if he could not understand. He brought it back to meds.
I'm resolved. If he writes again before the tournament, I will block him until 3 days after.

Of course, my own stupid body keeps looking at my messages to see if he's writing...

This reads to me like I and the rest could have written it before you did. He cancelled the meeting, the meeting that he had suggested and pushed you to, the one that caused you to question yourself and struggle to make sense of, which caused you some real emotional strain. And then he just cancelled it....because he was away. Could he not prioritize this meet-up that he himself suggested, one that he knew (or should have known) would be stressful for you?

And then when you tried to set a boundary around that due to your boxing match, he suggests he's 'only trying to support you', even though the previous year he stressed you out in the same boxing competition in a spectacularly non-supportive way. When you explain it to him he dodges accountability and blames the meds.

Where are your feelings and needs in his words and actions? Where are consideration and care about your emotional well-being?

All par for the course with these relationships. I've been there, and as I said above I could have written this out beforehand. I just summarize the dynamic here to make clear that although the details are different in every relationship, these kinds of slippery slopes are super common. Or maybe whack-a-mole is the better analogy.

Good for you for your resolve. I think that speaks well of you to hold your boundary, even though you have this pull to him.

Like others say, you or your body are not stupid. We are dealing with very deep attachment issues here, and maybe attachment wounding which makes the pull even stronger. I have called myself stupid and gotten mad at myself for my continuing attachment to my ex, but that is not helpful. I can work on these attachments, understand myself better, and still not call her or text her. I can have grace with myself and still celebrate being strong and knowing on some level that my ex's behavior has little to do with me, although of course I contributed (unknowingly) to the dynamic. But the 'dynamic' was there, before I was. By which I mean her contorted thinking and story-telling and tendencies were there before I arrived in the relationship. I slotted in, and I have to own that.

Be kind to yourself, I think you are doing well to prioritize your boxing match. It's normal to want to check your messages, your body and mind are not stupid, that is at least in part your attachment system looking for re-attachment.

[try2heal]

This reads to me like I and the rest could have written it before you did. ...


All par for the course with these relationships. I've been there, and as I said above I could have written this out beforehand. I just summarize the dynamic here to make clear that although the details are different in every relationship, these kinds of slippery slopes are super common. Or maybe whack-a-mole is the better analogy.

Good for you for your resolve. I think that speaks well of you to hold your boundary, even though you have this pull to him.

Like others say, you or your body are not stupid. We are dealing with very deep attachment issues here, and maybe attachment wounding which makes the pull even stronger. I have called myself stupid and gotten mad at myself for my continuing attachment to my ex, but that is not helpful. I can work on these attachments, understand myself better, and still not call her or text her. I can have grace with myself and still celebrate being strong and knowing on some level that my ex's behavior has little to do with me, although of course I contributed (unknowingly) to the dynamic. But the 'dynamic' was there, before I was. By which I mean her contorted thinking and story-telling and tendencies were there before I arrived in the relationship. I slotted in, and I have to own that.

Be kind to yourself, I think you are doing well to prioritize your boxing match. It's normal to want to check your messages, your body and mind are not stupid, that is at least in part your attachment system looking for re-attachment.

It absolutely blows my mind how similar our experiences are. Thank you thank you for telling me to stop denigrating myself. The reasons for my decisions are deep and buried, and his behavior is far more problematic than my falling for it.  I have work to do, but if I can learn and move forward it's gotta be worth it somehow, right?

BTW: I won Saturday night and fought again Sunday night. Didn't win, but fought with more skill and more tenacity than I knew I had against a far more experienced opponent. I'm going to try to take all of that out of the ring with me.

[try2heal]

Alright, we did it. We met up, at a public place. We exchanged things first, then sat down for a bit, then walked around the parking lot and talked more. I was guarded. He was sweet and caring and full of projection of what I wanted and not who he is. I saw through it (phew).

This was last Monday night. Then he started asking to see me this weekend. I told him I was swamped and he asked for me to put something he bought me outside so someone could pick it up. *pattern alert*
I sent him a long, loving, but clear text explaining that it was time to move on. He said it wasn't, although again with a "If you're seeing someone else, then I completely understand."
I replied: This is not a debate. It's not a negotiation. And it has nothing to do with anyone outside of us. I cannot give us another try. It is not good for me and I know I cannot go all in, which is not fair to either of us.
He fought me again, talked about me throwing it all away, how he never cheated on me and wouldn't abandon me..... When it continued after I copied and pasted the reply again, I blocked him.

Now.... how to let go?