Making contact with estranged BPD daughter…

[Inhrnp]

Hello again …

Everyone was so kind and helpful when I last posted, so I am reaching out again …

My step daughter has BPD… she cut off all contact with her Dad ( my husband ) about a year ago because of something he did …she has a brother who has been totally supportive and kind to me and her dad …he tries to talk to her but she’s doesn’t want to talk about it …but she does ask how Dad is …

her Dad sends her cards and letters but she never acknowledges or responds …

but she still occasionally contacts me -always in messages never phone calls-…starts with asking how I am then goes on mainly to say how hurt, upset and betrayed she feels and how there is nothing that can be done to make up …

She has recently got in touch to say she has been told by her therapist that it would be good to see her dad face to face … unfortunately we live quite a distance away so a visit would have to be arranged in advance ..

She doesn’t want me to tell him she’s been in contact … she wants to book a date then decide on the day if she’s coming or not …she wants to bring her boyfriend ( who we have never met and don’t know ) and she wants to see her dad alone (without me present)

I feel totally in turmoil… my husband knows she contacts me and he is desperate to understand how she’s feeling- does she love him or hate him? Does she want contact or not ?

I have asked her to talk to me before so I can try and understand how she’s feeling and I have told her how uncomfortable I am with having to keep this from my husband … he constantly asks me if I’ve heard from her and I am not going to lie…

I feel totally manipulated… I want her to reconcile with her dad but equally I don’t want her to destroy him …

Should I refuse her visit unless she’s prepared to let me be part of it ? I may be able to arrange for her brother to be there instead but I don’t want to put the burden on him to act as mediator…

Thank you for reading …

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Pook075]

Hello and welcome to the family- I'm so sorry you're stuck in this mess and to be honest, I'm torn on what direct advice to give you.  As you said, you feel manipulated (which is exactly what this is) and that's not going to help anything.  On the other hand though, she is reaching out to you and trusting you...which is a very big deal and something a lot of families here would love to have. 

So my advice is going to be to allow some of that manipulation to continue, at least from her perspective.  She can't manipulate you though if you're aware of it and allowing it for the bigger picture.

Where to start- I went through the same thing with my 26 year old BPD daughter several years ago.  I was the tough parent, the strict one, so she hated me with everything she had.  And from her perspective, everything that went wrong in her life was 100% my fault.  This is disordered thinking and it's the crux of BPD.

Like your husband, I didn't handle things perfectly because I'm human.  Sometimes I yelled, sometimes I grounded or took the car keys/cell phone.  These were nuclear options because she'd have to "punish me" an equal amount in her mind, which was coming back at me 100x harder.  But therapists continually said to stop walking on eggshells, the absolute best thing in her life was to teach right from wrong and punish accordingly.  Mental illness is not an excuse to abuse anyone and even the sickest individuals can be nice to others.  So that's what I did...the best I could in a very hard situation.

About two years ago my daughter wanted to have the same talk your DIL is asking for now.  And in a nutshell, she wanted to say:

1) You hurt me and you weren't there for me
2) You need to acknowledge what you did
3) I love you...but I really hate you too because it's all your fault and you did this to me and you were a lousy father and you never understood me (and on and on and on...)

I listened to my daughter for an hour and 40 minutes without speaking, without defending myself, and it literally felt like my brain was melting from all the severely warped narratives on how I was the bad guy.  Most of it was incoherent as she jumped from incident to incident, describing feelings and emotions with this rush of uneven energy.  But at the same time, even though her words were untrue/unfair, I realized that her pain was real and she was suffering so much deeper than I ever have with anything in my entire life.

So when she finally paused at an hour and 40 minutes, I said, "<name>, I did the absolute best I could as your father and I've always loved you.  Can you forgive me so we can move on? Because I forgive you for all of it."

My kid was already crying, but this made her sob and she ran to hug me.  Because here's the thing- blame it cheap....you did this, I did that.  Who cares.  I mean really, it means nothing when you're talking about an important relationship.  The only goal is to forgive and move on.

Now back to your situation.  Very similar except that you're a middle party to all of this.  Your DIL is sick and there's nothing you or your husband can say or do to "fix this".  The problem is mental illness....it's not your husband or your DIL.  So if you can manage expectations from that viewpoint, then you can actually make some progress.

1) Let the DIL make all the rules, but at the same time try removing yourself from being in a position to say yes or no.  Tell her dad's schedule and tell her to stop by anytime.  This removes you from the "planning stages".

2) This will be the hardest thing your DIL has done in her entire life (hence the BF for support).  She probably won't show the first time or the third time, because it's facing her worst fears in life (being rejected by dad...who she probably loves more than anyone and desperate for his approval).  So again, let her show up when she shows up.

3) Since you have her ear (even if by text), make sure you're giving a consistent message.  I would say, "Your dad loves you very much and would love for you to visit anytime."  Keep it positive, simple, and repeat it every time she mentions, "I don't know if he'd want to...." kind of stuff.

4) The part about you not being there and other "rules" she wants to implement, ignore that stuff for now because she's trying to plan all this out to be "perfect" in her own mentally ill mind.  It won't be perfect and it probably won't go the way she plans.  But your husband does need to essentially do what I did and just listen, avoid defending anything, and eventually offering a simple "I'm sorry, I love you and did the best I could, can we start over?"

I hope that helps; I'm stopping there because I just realized i wrote more than I intended.  Hopefully that gives you some tools and perspective though until we speak again.

[Inhrnp]

Thank you so much …

Everything you have said totally resonates with me …

I will go with your suggestions..

Thank you x

[Pook075]

Thank you so much …

Everything you have said totally resonates with me …

I will go with your suggestions..

Thank you x

Good luck, I'll say a prayer for you guys.  Hopefully your husband can keep his cool and allow the DIL to start healing from all of this.  Again, her confronting him is a huge step in her own recovery...keep it in that perspective.  This is about her, for her, and has nothing to do with you guys (regardless of what she may say).

[Notwendy]

I think it will help for you ( and your H) to read about the Karmpan triangle. What SD is doing is a form of triangulation- enlisting you to "her side". This happens a lot in my FOO- BPD mother will enlist someone to her side and then say "don't tell NW" this is between us. My BPD mother- (and I think pwBPD in general) perceive situations from Victim perspective.

I think it's good that your H wants to know how his D is doing and cares about her. I don't know how this meeting will go. If this were my BPD mother, she'd have discussed all the ways she was "wronged" with the therapist and the therapist, who only hears one side, would be encouraging her to come say this face to face.

As Pook said, the meeting may be a "vent" session with the SD speaking from victim perspective and saying things that will feel hurtful to him. However, if he's prepared to listen, not react, not defend himself- it may be the beginning of communication between them and he may also prefer that to no contact.

While it's understandable that you want to protect your H from being hurt- he's an adult. He can manage his own feelings. Also, I think he needs to have the choice and not be suddenly surprised by his D showing up. He needs to be emotionally prepared and also to learn about BPD dynamics so that he doesn't react emotionally to what she says to him. He also needs to have boundaries as she may be wanting him to give her money, give her money for a wedding (which may or may not happen), or whatever- and I think he needs to be aware of being manipulated. If your H wants to have a relationship with his D of sorts- her BPD behavior is a part of this. It will help him to learn more about keeping himself emotionally grounded and maintaining boundaries.

How to tell him? It may help for the two of you to go to counseling, have someone advise you both on how to manage this and to hold boundaries. This isn't easy, especially when someone is falsely accusing you of things. The natural response is to defend yourself verbally. Also, you don't have to tolerate verbal abuse and if the conversation steers that way, how to manage that as well.

I think your H needs to choose and also, I think he needs to have someone with him- not to "protect" his feelings but to dampen the potential drama. My BPD mother's behavior is worse when she's one on one with someone. Also, choosing to meet in a public area (where one can speak privately) rather than alone at your home is better. She is less likely to escalate to shouting when there are people close enough to hear. Consider a restaurant or hotel lobby where there are areas for meetings but if someone were to be yelling or screaming- it would be noticed.

Don't have expectations. It's possible for your SD, this is just a vent session and she's not interested in a relationship. Or it could lead to more communication. I think your H needs to be able to choose whether or not he wants to do this.

"Trust your gut". You say you feel manipulated. That is your own boundaries telling you this. The triangulation, "don't tell her Dad" - no, you two are married, this is his daughter. Don't be a part of the "triangle" and align with her in secrecy, but also before either of you react or respond to the SD, get prepared (by counseling, learning more about BPD) for how to navigate this.

[CC43]

Hi there,

My BPD adult stepdaughter is in a similar stage, where she’s getting therapy and thinks she wants to repair some family relationships. I think she wants to unleash some venom, telling her estranged family members how much they hurt her, and get them to apologize for all sorts of accusations,, many which are false. She wants them to take responsibility. I’m just not sure things are going to go the way she wants. Clearly she’s lonely, and she’s missing out on having relationships with family members. But she’s also feeling left behind. She’s still a student, when all her siblings have grow up, with jobs, apartments and romantic relationships. She’s not on equal footing, and she still feels inferior.

Like your stepdaughter, she wants help to set up a meeting, and yet she’s very likely to stand people up. In the end, she might not feel like it. I don’t blame her, as she’s carrying tremendous emotional baggage.

My tactics are to welcome her any time, but not make any grand plans because she stands us up so often. She’s welcome, but she’s the one who has to walk through the door. She’s the one who should make the effort, when she’s ready. You can’t force her. If she’s not ready, she might be completely derailed, and that’s not good. I’d say, keep the lines of communication open, as well as the door, but leave it at that. Make sense?

[Pook075]

My BPD adult stepdaughter is in a similar stage, where she’s getting therapy and thinks she wants to repair some family relationships. I think she wants to unleash some venom, telling her estranged family members how much they hurt her, and get them to apologize for all sorts of accusations,, many which are false. She wants them to take responsibility. I’m just not sure things are going to go the way she wants.

Yeah, this is so common and I had the same experience.  So let me be crystal clear here:

If the DIL says, "I want you to apologize for x, y, and z..." your husband should remain silent.  If he did actually do one of those things, then sure....validate the mistake and apologize.  But the goal here is not to validate the invalid since in the BPD's mind, that tells them that all the abuse they've unleashed was warranted.  Often, things get even worse.

Instead, the goal is to validate the DIL's feelings.  She's scared, she's hurt, she's traumatized....I am sorry she feels that way and I don't even know her.  It is genuinely heartbreaking and people with BPD deserve compassion.  So that's a very easy apology, saying, "I'm so sorry you're hurting and struggling like this, I never meant to hurt you.  I love you."

Also, your words (and your husband's words) matter!  You can't say, "I'm so sorry all of this has happened, but when you...."  The BPD will only hear, "This is all your fault!"  That's why you're not looking to defend or deflect, it's useless to someone running on pure emotional adrenaline and does more harm than good.

See the difference?

Again, good luck!  Please ask away if you (or your husband) has any questions.  Learning to communicate with a BPD relative is about 90% of the battle.

[Inhrnp]

Than you so much everyone…

I am so grateful to everyone who has taken the time to read and respond to my post …

I will definitely take on board everything that has been said ..

Thank you x