A more aggressive attorney?

[livednlearned]

I think she is very excited about the letter of the law, to the point everything is starting to add up as almost a premeditated scam.

 

Ok, I see what you're saying here. You feel she has bamboozled you over time and is going to get a favorable ruling.

I meant more the taunts about your bike, and skis and such.

It will all have to come out in the discovery documents, but the claim right now is that she paid all of her premarital debt with our community funds while paying mine with money she kept sole and separate from before we were married.  If that is the case it's almost worst case scenario as she could be free and clear of all her debt yet claim I owe her back for any of my premarital debt that she paid off and for any money she might have spent on our home.

Next, she move all her money into FBO accounts which may render any of that money off limits in our case.

Is this something that could get flushed out in a deposition? With depositions, from the way they were presented to me by my L, the key is not just to air the dirty laundry, the key is also to find inconsistencies (e.g. lies) and loopholes in what the person is saying. Then shine light on those inconsistencies during cross-examination that ideally reveal nefarious motives and undermine credibility.

The disadvantage is that it can cost a few thousand dollars. My L said sometimes depositions are used as a way for the other L to see how credible each spouse will be when cross-examined. So, from that perspective, it's a very expensive audition.

You have to run a cost-benefit analysis to gauge whether it's worth it.

For me, it was worth it, but not in ways I expected. And it didn't necessarily make everything go away, it just shifted things in my favor and from there I gained momentum.

Obviously the waiting game on these answers have me not getting a whole lot of sleep... .if it all came together in a worst case scenario, she could get my home of 14 years free and clear and I could be saddled with debt and no equity... .

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. The sleeplessness is the worst -- you wake up and boom, there's your wife jeering at you and taunting you, meanwhile you're worried sick about your future.

Now will that happen, lots would have to fall into place and I haven't been fully briefed on the law or what we have back from discovery at this time.  My attorney has been preparing for another trial this week so I most likely won't have answers until maybe next week.

Do you know if your L is a good litigator? This turned out to be important for me. Not all Ls are very good at being persuasive in court. The law is the law, and then there are good litigators, who convince the judge to interpret things more or less more favorably within those parameters.

A good L might persuade your judge to say, Hey, these two have barely been married, and she came into this looking for a bank. She got her debt paid off out of joint funds, so let's call this a wash and let Mr. NewStart get back to the way things were before she showed up.

I have to stop "reading the tea leaves" and researching things on my own and wait for the real information from my attorney as all I'm doing is working myself up.

 

I hope you find some peace soon, NS.

[NewStart]

***UPDATE***

Could it all be bluster and threats from her?

After canceling mediation after one appointment retaining a shark lawyer, making tons of threats and muddying the water we pushed back and said put up or shut up we want all your documents and let's go to court... .after all that her camp just sent over a stipulation to mediate?

Thought on this?

NS 

[NewStart]

Do you know if your L is a good litigator?

He is an excellent litigator and her attorney knows him well, maybe that's why we're apparently headed back to mediation?  I'm so confused with this yo-yo ride?

The sleeplessness is the worst -- you wake up and boom, there's your wife jeering at you and taunting you, meanwhile you're worried sick about your future.

This is it exactly, she make three times what I make so she has the ability to bounce right back and here she is trying to ring every last cent out of me... .yes, it has me feeling sick, not taking very good care of myself and yes very sleepless nights.

NS

[formflier]

This is it exactly, she make three times what I make so she has the ability to bounce right back and here she is trying to ring every last cent out of me... .yes, it has me feeling sick, not taking very good care of myself and yes very sleepless nights.

NS

Any chance YOU can get spousal support from her for a while?

FF

[ForeverDad]

Do you know if your L is a good litigator? This turned out to be important for me. Not all Ls are very good at being persuasive in court. The law is the law, and then there are good litigators, who convince the judge to interpret things more or less more favorably within those parameters.

A good L might persuade your judge to say, Hey, these two have barely been married, and she came into this looking for a bank. She got her debt paid off out of joint funds, so let's call this a wash and let Mr. NewStart get back to the way things were before she showed up.

A couple thoughts I learned from here and when I was in court:

• Judges are granted a lot of discretion in their decisions.  As LnL noted, a good lawyer can make sure the nuances of the case, such as her now being perceived as a slick gold digger, document how you've been used and the judge may include those points in a better (or less unfair) decision.
• A judge does not have to rule on information not presented or documented as evidence for the court.  For example, if the court makes a bad decision, then you can appeal, object or ask for reconsideration of only the testimony and evidence presented to the court.  Understand that judges and lawyers are often not anxious to have a lot of evidence, my conclusion is so they can rely more on judicial discretion.  With a very oppositional spouse, that can be bad.

[NewStart]

Any chance YOU can get spousal support from her for a while?

I think if she starts to draw this out, which I think the mediator tactic is, I am going to ask my attorney about requesting this.

Judges are granted a lot of discretion in their decisions

Was your case in a community property state by chance?  I have some fear that here there may be less discretion as it is a community property state, however, if there is enough evidence there may be a way to try to show premeditation to defraud.

At this point I'm thinking that the request to mediation again may be a stall tactic as the mediator selected is not available until late March or early April?  To me this is unacceptable as I want her out of my life ASAP as she is so incredibly toxic and I think she knows this.  By extending this process she is hoping I leave the house thus giving her stronger cause to keep it

NS

[livednlearned]

Your L will know best how things work in your state. Even so, remember that your L works for you.

So, if you feel that asking for spousal support is fair, given the discrepancy in incomes, and that your wife and her L will try to drag things out and wear you down, then keep your foot on the gas.

In practice, that means you decide what you know is best. Do you think it is fair to ask for spousal support? If so, press on this until you get a convincing, satisfactory reason for why you should or shouldn't ask for it. It also means sticking to the court date. That's your call, not your lawyer's. If it were me, I would stick to the court date. Your wife is going to stonewall, obstruct, and drag this out in the most unbelievably insidious ways. And her L is weaponizing rules of fair play to screw you.

The quick back pedal to go to mediation is a sign they don't want to lose control. They probably recognize that court may not play out as well for them -- there are a lot of stories here where court cut through the entitlement of a BPD spouse.

You may not know what they discuss behind closed doors, but you can be sure that when they offer something, it is not because they want to be friendly and fair.
 
I don't know all the details of your situation, and things are different in each state. But based on what you have shared, I would not only stick to the court date, I would start asking for more. Ask for spousal support. Ask for a deposition. You may not need them, and things may get really weird at home! But it signals to them that you have a sense of what is fair and are not afraid to ask for what you are entitled to.

When your wife is taunting you at home, do you think you can turn to her, look her straight in the eye, hold up your hand and tell her in a firm, commanding tone, STOP. Do you think you could hold up a recording device? Could you whip out a notebook and start taking notes?

She doesn't respect you, that's why she is heckling and taunting and trying to shake all the dimes out of your pockets. The time for being nice is over -- that doesn't mean you have to be aggressive or mean or nasty or snarky. It means that you get clear about how you want people to treat you, and even more important, recognize whether someone is capable of treating you well. For people who have proven they will not respect you, only you can stop them from treating you badly. They lack whatever sensibility is needed to control their own bad behavior.

[formflier]

I think if she starts to draw this out, which I think the mediator tactic is, I am going to ask my attorney about requesting this.
 

Ummm... .ask your attorney for a good reason NOT to ask for this.

Just my advice on negotiations... .in the next mediation you need to "up the ante"... .considerably.

Why?

We all know this will likely go to trial and that mediation is a sham.

So... .make your "point" that each time they play games... .your "price" goes up.  Price being your opening negotiating position.

You also need to have it worked out with your attorney what you will take.  Even if you stumble into that agreement in mediation... .take it.

Let them be the ones that "can't agree".  If they back out and want that back later... .that deal is gone... .but a new deal... .with slightly higher price... .is still available.

Just my 2 cents... .

It sounds like you have a good attorney... .

FF

[NewStart]

The quick back pedal to go to mediation is a sign they don't want to lose control. They probably recognize that court may not play out as well for them -- there are a lot of stories here where court cut through the entitlement of a BPD spouse.

Well, I think I'm hoping that it's about control and maybe a weaker hand than my wife thought she had, but part of me thinks it is just a stall tactic as the mediator offered up is booked until early April.  My wife has been and continues to make things so uncomfortable at home that my thought is she hopes that I pull the plug and move out thus giving her a stronger position to take my house.

She doesn't respect you, that's why she is heckling and taunting and trying to shake all the dimes out of your pockets. The time for being nice is over -- that doesn't mean you have to be aggressive or mean or nasty or snarky. It means that you get clear about how you want people to treat you, and even more important, recognize whether someone is capable of treating you well. For people who have proven they will not respect you, only you can stop them from treating you badly. They lack whatever sensibility is needed to control their own bad behavior.

That's a tough one and one that I've talked about a lot with friends and family, at the end of the day I'm just a nice guy and find it hard to want to be mean.  However, you make a valid point that at some point you have to stand up and say enough is enough, I deserve to be treated fairly and with respect and as a matter of fact, I demand that.

You also need to have it worked out with your attorney what you will take.  Even if you stumble into that agreement in mediation... .take it.

I think this is a critical piece, but right now we are still in the waiting game in the discovery process.  All the financials, appraisal from their side, etc we are still waiting on.  I had all mine together and in to my attorney within 48 hours and here we sit over a week out and my wife is still dragging her feet on getting information to her attorney to get to mine.  Without those pieces I think that it's impossible to have a number in mind, but believe me I want one, want an offer I can take and the ability to move on from this situation the sooner the better. 

NS

[formflier]

"Mean" and "assertive" are very different... .And often confused by nons.

Can you press towards trial AND mediation?

I would not wait for April...


FF

[livednlearned]

Asking for respect or demanding it verbally doesn't work so well with dysregulated BPD sufferers.

More effective strategies are based on doing what you feel is best for you.

If you believe trial is the fastest, best way to handle things, then do it for you.

Whether she is stalling or scrambling for control, mediation seems to go counter to your goals.

If so, then the next bit is to commit to putting NewStart's needs first.  

And working through any guilt or "mean" feelings. These can be intense for some.

[formflier]

  mediation seems to go counter to your goals.

 

A great way to express it.   

Perahps pushing for trial ASAP (and discovery... .and the rest that comes with that) will help them get more reasonable in mediation or a settlement prior to trial.

I believe several people on these boards have powerful stories of pwBPD coming to their senses... .just before trial.  The pressure you put on them matters.

FF

[NewStart]

Can you press towards trial AND mediation?

I sent that request in this morning and my attorney said not to worry, they're on the clock and they have 20 days.  Both the mediation and the request for an expeditious trial date are running concurrent so now it's just a waiting game.

More effective strategies are based on doing what you feel is best for you.
If you believe trial is the fastest, best way to handle things, then do it for you.

I would say what is best for me at this point would be the most expeditious route to a resolution.  The problem is I don't know the fastest route as there are to many variables.  The fastest result would probably being able to finish this process in mediation, however that would require my wife being reasonable and fair and unfortunately I'm not really holding out hope for that... .

NS

Whether she is stalling or scrambling for control, mediation seems to go counter to your goals.
If so, then the next bit is to commit to putting NewStart's needs first

[NewStart]

Perahps pushing for trial ASAP (and discovery... .and the rest that comes with that) will help them get more reasonable in mediation or a settlement prior to trial.

This is certainly what I'm shooting for, right now my attorney is preping for another trial so at this point we're if a bit of a holding pattern.  Should wrap up this week so back on track soon I hope!

[formflier]

Don't talk about this at home.  In other words... .to explain the schedule to her at all.

That is for her and her attorney to figure out.

FF

[NewStart]

Don't talk about this at home.  In other words... .to explain the schedule to her at all.
That is for her and her attorney to figure out.
FF

Haha, I wouldn't think of it! I'm still trying to be as friendly as possible through a tough process, but my uBPDw... .yeah not so much.

That being said I tried to broach the subject of where we were in mediation the first time around about four weeks ago and that's when she told me she had no intention of being fair because I was going to hate regardless... .so that was the last we've really spoken... .