Carrying the Pain of a pwBPD

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Friends,

In general, I suspect that most Nons in a BPD r/s carry the pain of his/her BPD SO.  What pain?  Most w/BPD have personality conflicts, childhood wounds, family drama, estranged friends and lovers, as well as other imagined or exaggerated slights from which they suffer.  I think it's OK to listen, but in my view carrying the pain of another is unhealthy because it requires us to drop our own pain.

Why do we carry the pain of a pwBPD?

Detaching, I submit, involves letting go of the pwBPD's pain, which is easier said than done.  Recovery, I suggest, involves identifying and carrying one's own pain again.

Thanks to all,
LuckyJim

[Lucky Jim]

Friends,

In general, I suspect that most Nons in a BPD r/s carry the pain of his/her BPD SO.  What pain?  Most w/BPD have personality conflicts, childhood wounds, family drama, estranged friends and lovers, as well as other imagined or exaggerated slights from which they suffer.  I think it's OK to listen, but in my view carrying the pain of another is unhealthy because it requires us to drop our own pain.

Why do we carry the pain of a pwBPD?

Detaching, I submit, involves letting go of the pwBPD's pain, which is easier said than done.  Recovery, I suggest, involves identifying and carrying one's own pain again.

Thanks to all,
LuckyJim

[schwing]

I wonder if some times we (nons) unconsciously select our BPD SO specifically because of their pain. I know I selected my BPD SO because her background resonated quite well with the dysfunction of my background. I didn't know this at the beginning -- I just know that at the beginning, "it felt right" for me.

In many ways, I didn't become *aware* of my own dysfunctional background until I was faced with the dysfunction of being in a relationship with my BPD SO.  For a long time after the relationship ended I kept blaming her for my own unhappiness. And I was baffled why I had such a difficult time letting go.

Eventually I realized the unhappiness she wrought in my life mirrored the unhappiness I inherited from my family of origin.

One of the primary reasons why I tolerated the dysfunction in my BPD SO relationship for as long as I did (5 years) was because our "dance" so accurately mimicked the dysfunctional relationship I had with my mother.  Both behaved as "waifs" in our dynamic.  She was often having some kind of emotional crisis or another - she exhibited the push-pull dynamic. And I was so accustomed to "rescuing" her. As a kid I was taught (or trained to believe) that this dynamic was "love." 

So I carried my BPD SO's pain because I was conditioned to believe this is what you do for someone you love. I had to learn to let go of this idea because it was it really wasn't working for me.

[Lucky Jim]

Schwing: Exactly.  You nailed it.  Same for me.  Thanks, LJ

[ACObound]

Similar.  I was aware of my dysfunctional background (alcoholic abusive father) however don't think I was aware of what effect it had on the R/S. Didn't know anything about BPD until 35 years into the R/S.

 

She was often having some kind of emotional crisis or another - she exhibited the push-pull dynamic. And I was so accustomed to "rescuing" her. As a kid I was taught (or trained to believe) that this dynamic was "love." 

Amen

[earlyL]

I absolutely admit her pain was what attracted me to her. Mainly because we have similar dysfunctional backgrounds and I have always found people with that kind of history more attractive. It is not something I had ever seen as an issue, but something I am addressing now. I like that thought that it is time we dropped their pain, I think that is really useful. Thank you.

[marti644]

  schwing

Definitely. My mother trained me to think rescuing her from her problems was my duty as a child. She secretly was unhappy with my father and took to confiding in me and my older sister all the details of my father's flaws (a form of parental alienation that has significantly affected my ability to have healthy relationships).

I have spent my adult life recreating this scenario with different exes. My BPDex brought this pattern clearly to light. The pain I feel relates to my unworthiness as a child and attracts me to people with problems (like my mother). So glad I see this pattern now and am self aware of this push/pull dynamic.

[cubicinch]

I'm afraid I have realised something about myself and its taken me over 40 years to see it. My father is officially Schizophrenic, Pd, clinical depressive. It looks like I've been conditioned as a child to see that this is how relationships are, and as a result, I've always been drawn to the wrong sort of person, and I've carried their weight, I've wanted to help them, or at least have empathy for them. Being damaged myself, I've thought of them as a mirror of myself, and as a result, as partners. It's taken me all these years to see that two wrongs don't necessarily make a right. I've had a shaky and long start into my adult relationships, and I've never really experienced anyone actually loving me. Maybe they have during some short idealisation period, but nothing in the long term. That sounds so sad, to spend a life without a partners love. But I'm afraid it's true.

[JQ]

Hello L.J.

It's been awhile since I've posted but after reading your post I felt the need to share what I've learned with others to maybe help them move on from their BPD r/s and discover their own happiness. Schwing's story isn't much different than mine & if others were to look deep inside of themselves & REALLY be honest with themselves they might see similarities in their life story.

Through a few hundred hours of therapy, a lot of reading, reflecting, self evaluation and really ... .REALLY being honest with myself I have found that my happiness begins & ends with me. After my last BPDrs ended I wanted to find out why I was attracted to people like those with BPD ... .I've come to learn that I've dated at least 2 in my adult life ... .maybe 3.  But the question is why am I or you or anyone might be attracted to someone who has a serious Cluster B Mental Illness? I had to learn that I was a codependent & my behavior was a learned behavior.  I had to go back to my childhood to the beginning of where it all began ... .much like Schwing's. It's not an easy journey to walk but one that MUST be if one is to find an answers to the questions they seek.

My step mother married my alcoholic absent father when I was about 5, instantly I became the oldest of 5. Looking back I remember & more important RECOGNIZE that my step mother exhibited "Crazy behavior" all my life & still does to this day. I would be the one to come home first from school growing up to see what she had done that day, were her "flying monkey's on the loose". She would rearrange the furniture in the house 2-3 times a month & rearrange the kitchen cabinets once a month. I would then intercept my sisters & brothers before they opened the door to tell them "mom is in another one of her moods".  I learned about BPD from my last exBPDgf when she told me she was diagnosed with it. I dove into learning all I could about BPD including my own therapy, reading, researching. I applied all that I learned into looking back growing up & realized that they both my step mother & last exBPDgf had the same behavior. I had dated another woman 18 years earlier who behaved in the same manner. History was repeating itself & I needed to stop the crazy train & get the hell off.

back then I was responsible for my younger siblings & would protect them as best as I could ... .I would try to make everything as perfect as I knew how, to prevent my step mother from going from Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde ... .but it was never good enough and she would jump on the crazy train. I became unknowingly a perfectionist & a codependent trying to make her happy, keep the calm only to fail in my attempts time after time throughout my entire life to include my recent adult life.

Fast forward to now, learning all that I did about BPD my therapist & I have come to the conclusion that my step mother is most likely an undiagnosed BPD. Since studies have shown it can be passed down from generation to generation, 1 step sister has it & my 1/2 brother does as well, they all exhibit similar behaviors as the DSM manual & my therapist have concluded. They all have jump on the crazy train with their flying monkey's much like my exBPDgf's. I learned like Schwing that I grew up in a dysfunctional family and my behavior was learned from those experiences. I have made the hard & difficult choice to keep them out of my life to have some sort of normalcy. I no longer speak with any of them and doubt if I will for the rest of my life ... .trust me I'm in a much better place now than dealing with their flying monkey's. I have learned to change my codependent behavior and it's been a hard thing to do but when you learn how to ... .there is a tremendous weight and burden lifted off your shoulders as you have mentioned & Schwing has eluted too. I truly live a much better life now ... .much better than a life with them in it full of chaos, drama, pain, etc. etc. etc.

People with BPD are severely broken as everyone has come to learn. One friend who is a Clinical Therapist has told me she is the office "expert" on BPD & told me that pwBPD will never be able to be "fixed". Like other seasoned mental health professionals & Dr's she has refused to take anymore people diagnosed with BPD because currently she is burned out on treating them. It was a path that she & her own therapist have concluded was best for her.

Don't try to use logic with dealing with anyone who has BPD because their behavior is NOT logical. It's a Cluster B Mental Illness that has NO cure & will be with that person for their entire life. Their behavior is not likely to change & if it does it won't be for long. My step mother is nearly 72 & still is no better than she was 45 years ago. I couldn't live the rest of my life like I did in the beginning of my life. Trying to please someone who will never be mentally balanced. I looked at another woman I dated 15 yrs earlier and she too is mentally ill as her father told me when I was discussing marrying his daughter with him. He sat me down & told me that her mother was committed more than 4 times for 2-4 weeks at a time in the local mental hospital. At the time they didn't really know about BPD but called it "manic depressive disorder or another mental illness" and he told me that the doctors told him that it could be passed down to his kids & he told me that he noticed that his daughter at the time was starting to act like her mother. He could not in good conscience let me pursue his daughter down the same path without letting me know what I would be in for. I thanked him for that and have come to appreciate how tough that must have been to tell me. A man confessing that his daughter was mentally ill ... .he didn't want me to live the tortured life that he did.

NOW that I'm much more educated on BPD I have learned of my past behavior of codependent & have worked hard to correct it and not go down that path again. I learned that I have to be happy with myself first in life, enjoy MY life and not depend on someone else's happiness to make me happy. This is MY life and no one else's, my happiness can NOT & will NOT be dictated on someone else's happiness. Schwing speaks of "inheriting" unhappiness from the life you grew up with your mother was was mirrored by your BPDr/s. As a codependent we spent years growing up learning our codependent behavior via training with our BPD / dysfunctional mother / family. When we became adults we were indeed conditioned to try & help someone in pain ... .the cycle repeated itself. The book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" describes the natural attraction of 2 people one who is has Codependent behavior & the other who has Cluster B Mental Illness. It is a "Perfect Attraction" for a unholy dysfunctional BPDr/s.

My guidance to all is to seek out a really good therapist in codependency to assist you in learning why you might be that way if you are that way ... .to finally get off the Crazy Train. To learn that their flying monkey's are THIER flying monkey's to deal with and NOT yours.

LEARN that you are in control & responsible for your OWN happiness.

KNOW that no one else can control it by their behavior or their actions.

LIVE your life knowing that you only get one shot at this ... .wake up each day & smile at the sunrise knowing it's going to be a great day. 

Live YOUR life each day to the fullest!  And one day someone will come along & see that, recognize it in you & want to be a part of it ... .and the best part of it is that you've learned to LOVE LIFE on your own ... .& you'll share that life with that someone who isn't mentally ill and that brings an equal part to yours so that you can equally live a wonderful life together~!

J

[HoneyB33]

This is really interesting LJ

I was just thinking today about how when my ex would bring something up I would feel this obligation to what she stated as an "issue". For example, she really made me feel like I had done something wrong when I would walk away from situations. This was of course triggering her abandonment fears. But it was quite right for me to walk away. I was looking at the situation and how I felt this responsibility(?) to her feelings. And how this kept me busy picking up all this stuff when the situation was so clearly BS.

With what you said, this makes a lot of sense as to why I was in this position, because I was totally taking responsibility for her feelings. Very timely post, thanks!

[Turkish]

Don't try to use logic with dealing with anyone who has BPD because their behavior is NOT logical

There is logic,  however,  about understanding BPD behaviors, as well as understanding our roles.  This helps us avoid pitfalls, traps, recycles, and ultimately to detach and heal.

[JQ]

There is logic,  however,  about understanding BPD behaviors, as well as understanding our roles.  This helps us avoid pitfalls, traps, recycles, and ultimately to detach and heal.

Respectfully I disagree Turkish, please feel free to give us an education on why you believe that in BPD there is logic.  Having spoken to more than one therapist, a couple of Ph.d's, and read time after time that "Mental Health Professionals" become very frustrated with those who have this Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness in part because they do not, & will never make sense aka there is no logic to their behavior or thinking. It's why in part some Mental Health Professionals stop treating those with BPD.

@L.J. - you said, "Why do we carry the pain of a pwBPD? Detaching, I submit, involves letting go of the pwBPD's pain, which is easier said than done.  Recovery, I suggest, involves identifying and carrying one's own pain again."    I would agree with your thoughts in that recovery involves identifying & carrying one's own pain again."  And for some this internal self pain is to great to explore and resolve.

As I've come to learn it takes a great deal of strength to look inward, to overcome one's own fears of inferiority, loneness. To stair yourself in the mirror & say to oneself as a "codependent aka NON", "YOU are not perfect, you have failed at things in life & will continue to fail in life." To look at yourself in the mirror & identify that source of your pain is a dysfunctional parent, alcoholic parent, absent parent, an unloving parent. You do all the things you know how to do to receive some sort of love, affection, attention from your parent only to have them look at you and tell you words to the affect, "You got a B ... .but it' still not an A or you struck out 3 out of 4 times at bat, or that you're failing at something "Pick your topic" ... .how does that, how does ALL of that affect a child growing up only wanting the basic things that any of us really wanted ... .to be told & showed that we are loved?

To never be told as a child that you are loved is painful ... .one feels discarded, tossed to the side, that they don't matter. Out of all the things that a parent can do is to never tell their child is that they are loved is the most painful thing a parent can do. So much so that they bury it deep within themselves for years. They learn to compartmentalize all things in life and they learn to help others with their pain ... .to some how take it away for them. In return that person is grateful and shows the NON some sort of affection with kind words, a caring hug ... .all the things their parent wouldn't or couldn't do. They get some sort of feelings of love from others in whatever way they can. 

For someone with BPD, their pain is deep, constant, they live it everyday. Perhaps the NON believes if they help take away that pain at least in part everyday they will receive what they've been missing everyday ... .they get some love, affection & some kind words ... .but as the NON comes to learn the BPD affection is short lived due to the incurable Cluster B Mental Illness that they suffer from. The BPD pain causes them to take and take and take until the NON has no more left to give of themselves. No relationship is one sided ... .both parties must give equally in order for it to survive and or to meet the needs of both parties ... .but a BPD vs NON r/s will never ever be this and this is a tough lesson for most NONs to learn.

At this point the NON needs to do the deep dive on themselves to get to the real core of his or her pain. To address the behavior that pain has caused and to face it head on. If a NON continues to ignore that cause of pain there can be no moving forward in learning about life & their own happiness. The NON will continue to recycle if not with the current or previous BPDr/s with another one and the dysfunctional r/s will start again.

Stop the crazy train from leaving the station ... .stop the madness ... .stop YOUR pain. As I've said in a previous post ... .NO ONE can walk this journey for YOU ... .it is NOT our journey to walk. It is NOT our pain to address ... .it is NOT our behavior resulting from the pain ... .

We must walk our own path on our own journey ... .some of us are stronger than others & get started right away while others make excuses or delay the inevitable journey they must walk. Although you must walk your own path on your journey to self discovery ... .we will all stumble and fall to the ground ... .yes including yours truly. I have falling many times on my journey ... .I have picked myself up from time to time & dusted myself off & continued down my path ... .then there have been times where I have been like everyone else to weak to pick myself up to go on ... .I've looked up & saw a helping hand waiting for me to take it & they've helped me up ... .they've dusted me off ... .they've patted me on the butt and said go on ... .keep walking ... .we all need that helping hand to pick us up from time to time ... .

We all know what the consequences are from not walking our journey of self discovery ... .but what is the danger of actually walking on our own path ... .self discovery ... .a path to heal ourselves of a lifetime of a pain as L.J. has said, ":)etaching from the pain" ... .to walk a path to happiness ... .of a loving, caring equal r/s with someone ... .you can either walk it ... .or sit down where you're at in life and do nothing and recycle again & again & again ... .

the choice has been and will always be yours to make ... .if you stumble and can't pick yourself up ... .the group will be right behind you holding out a hand to help you up ... .dust you off ... .pat your butt & tell you continue on your journey ... .

J

 

[Huh?]

Great post.

Today, I was outside working and thinking about my role as a rescuer  (or martyr) in these relationships I choose.

When they inevitably end, I feel resentment and bitterness because I exhausted myself, depleted all that I have in my attempt to "prove" that there are good men out there... .that I'm a good man.

But what I was thinking about today... .was instead of blaming them, I should shoulder the blame myself.  Although they play up the victim role to suit their purposes, I was the one who inserted myself into the role of the rescuer... ... it was my decision to try and "heal" them. Im not dumb; I saw the red flags, my gut was screaming to end these relationships... .but I didn't. I kept on keeping on, hoping things would change.  Of course it never would.

This was kinda of a break through for me today... .to help me let go of the anger I feel at my envitable failure... .and to help me move forward and eliminate that desire to rescue someone moving forward.  These disordered people will only take what you give them... .and then more and more as you allow it.   Time to put ourselves first.

[schwing]

Hi JQ,

Respectfully I disagree Turkish, please feel free to give us an education on why you believe that in BPD there is logic.  Having spoken to more than one therapist, a couple of Ph.d's, and read time after time that "Mental Health Professionals" become very frustrated with those who have this Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness in part because they do not, & will never make sense aka there is no logic to their behavior or thinking. It's why in part some Mental Health Professionals stop treating those with BPD.

I'm sure Turkish can speak for himself, still I would like to say that I believe there is consistency (if not logic) in the behavior of people suffering from BPD. I understand that in the "detaching" forum, it is helpful that we have a safe place to vent our frustration and anger we feel towards our BPD loved ones.  But also keep in mind that there are other forum members here, who choose to continue to stay or are conflicted about staying with their BPD loved ones. This website is here for those people too.

And I agree that there are plenty of professionals who can be very frustrated and choose to avoid treating those with BPD.  But there are those professionals who do choose to work with such people and God Bless em.  Some people with BPD can recover from their illness; some recovered/recovering pwBPD frequent these forums and I appreciate their insight and occasional input.  And so I can appreciate the desire to minimize the stigma already associated with this disorder.

To never be told as a child that you are loved is painful ... .one feels discarded, tossed to the side, that they don't matter. Out of all the things that a parent can do is to never tell their child is that they are loved is the most painful thing a parent can do. So much so that they bury it deep within themselves for years. They learn to compartmentalize all things in life and they learn to help others with their pain ... .to some how take it away for them. In return that person is grateful and shows the NON some sort of affection with kind words, a caring hug ... .all the things their parent wouldn't or couldn't do. They get some sort of feelings of love from others in whatever way they can. 

I can identify with this description.

For someone with BPD, their pain is deep, constant, they live it everyday. Perhaps the NON believes if they help take away that pain at least in part everyday they will receive what they've been missing everyday ... .they get some love, affection & some kind words ... .but as the NON comes to learn the BPD affection is short lived due to the incurable Cluster B Mental Illness that they suffer from.

This is exactly the fantasy I entertained in myself which was that I would find someone who was also broken (I felt broken) and we would "fix" each other.  Part of what was so seductive about my BPD loved one was that she threw so much affection my way (in the beginning).  She told me she loved me so early, so often, so repetitively.  I was so grateful to her for displaying this kind of affection to which I was a stranger.

But I didn't understand the trade-off.  I felt like she had fixed me.  And I did my damnedest to fix her but I couldn't.  And then she broke me.

Thing is, all the things I didn't get as a kid, I could get now as an adult. And I decided these kinds of things I had no business seeking from another person, at least not for the most part.  I had to find it for myself. I had to be for myself what I still needed for myself.  If I didn't I would risk allowing someone else break me in the same way again, and I no longer had an appetite for that.

The BPD pain causes them to take and take and take until the NON has no more left to give of themselves. No relationship is one sided ... .both parties must give equally in order for it to survive and or to meet the needs of both parties ... .but a BPD vs NON r/s will never ever be this and this is a tough lesson for most NONs to learn.

I think this is at the heart of the decision every NON who is undecided or determined to stay with their BPD loved one: does their BPD loved one have the capacity or willingness to look at their side of the equation and take the difficult steps towards recovery.  If not, their alternative is to blame the NON. And I think this is also at the heart of our own recovery.  Stop buying into the narrative that it was all our fault, it was also their fault. But neither were we only a victim. At some level we made this choice.

If a NON continues to ignore that cause of pain there can be no moving forward in learning about life & their own happiness. The NON will continue to recycle if not with the current or previous BPDr/s with another one and the dysfunctional r/s will start again.

I see this as either a NON issue or a BPD issues.  It is exactly because pwBPD have the tendency to run away from their pain and re-invent themselves that continues to be the reason why they will continue in their repetition.  And their fantasy is maybe the *next one* won't trigger their issues.

[Turkish]

"The next one" certainly triggered issues,  as he experienced DV which I didn't really, nor did I get the cops called on me. 

The logic is understanding the behaviors in and of themselves.  Within the context of the traits of the disorder. How does one deal with a person who feels empty? Can't control their emotions? Is impulsive to the point of hurting others and themselves? Has attachment issues? May experience episodes of being psychotic?

Understanding the behaviors and stepping out of engaging or being drawn into them.  Detaching, or if like some of us here who have to remain in contact to co or parallel parent, establishing healthy boundaries within the context of how the other suffers.  It's a given that she has issues. I can't change that.  Understanding how she suffers helps me deal with it. It doesn't mean I like it,  but it is what it is.  I can't change that. 

[Larmoyant]

Why do we carry the pain of a pwBPD?

I’m carrying my ex’s pain because it allows me to ignore my own deep seated issues. We both had abandonment fears and maybe this drew us together in some way. Perhaps with two ‘normal’ people this might have been a good match. We may have understood each other and met each other’s need for security and stability within a relationship. I’ve lost count how many times I tried to reassure him that he was all that I wanted, that I wasn’t dating or considering dating every man I came across. I’m now more than aware of the futility of doing that. I did so much, too much to prove myself only for him to, time and time again, abandon or threaten to abandon the relationship, me, triggering over and over my underlying fear and pain related to childhood. Maybe, focusing and holding onto ‘his’ pain  still remains a way for me to avoid my own. Perhaps I haven’t completely let go of him because I am having such a difficult time facing what it is that is hurting?

[Lucky Jim]

I’m carrying my ex’s pain because it allows me to ignore my own deep seated issues.

Hey Larm, I appreciate your honesty and suspect that this is true for most of us while in a BPD r/s, which is why I started this post.

Perhaps I haven’t completely let go of him because I am having such a difficult time facing what it is that is hurting?

As I suggested above, I think recovery (i.e., letting go) involves identifying and carrying one's own pain again.  What do you think is making it hard for you to face your own wound?

LuckyJim

[JQ]

@schwing, You said, "still I would like to say that I believe there is consistency (if not logic) in the behavior of people suffering from BPD. I understand that in the "detaching" forum, it is helpful that we have a safe place to vent our frustration and anger we feel towards our BPD loved ones.  But also keep in mind that there are other forum members here, who choose to continue to stay or are conflicted about staying with their BPD loved ones. This website is here for those people too."

I would agree with your definition of "consistency" of pwBPD behavior ... .nothing they do in regards to a r/s is logical as defined, "characterized by or capable of clear, sound reasoning.  synonyms:   reasoned, well reasoned, reasonable, rational, left-brained, sound, cogent, well-thought-out, valid; More (of an action, development, decision, etc.) natural or sensible given the circumstances." 

And I agree that there are plenty of professionals who can be very frustrated and choose to avoid treating those with BPD.  But there are those professionals who do choose to work with such people and God Bless em.  Some people with BPD can recover from their illness; some recovered/recovering pwBPD frequent these forums and I appreciate their insight and occasional input.  And so I can appreciate the desire to minimize the stigma already associated with this disorder.   

I would agree with you that there are some Mental Health Professionals who do attempt to help pwBPD & yes God bless those men & women for attempting to help those who suffer from all forms of Mental Illness.   I've come to learn that people look at the different forums and that some of those people do suffer from BPD. I respectfully Disagree that some can recover from BPD illness ... .SOME can & do learn to "Manage" their Mental Illness and or behavior. Respectfully managing is not by definition a recovery or a cure. Even this website said that BPD is a incurable Cluster B Mental Illness in addition to many other respected Mental Health learning institutions.
 
Per BPD Family website, "Lifelong thinking pattern: Personality types are not about a brief period or phase in someones life. They are permanent thought patterns that have their onset in adolescence or childhood. Outward behaviors can vary but the internal thought patterns are always at work.

What are personality disorders? Personality disorder thought patterns are often described as personality traits with maladaptive "twists" that co-exist with normal personality traits. The maladaptive and normal traits imperceptibly flow back and forth into one another. The maladaptive variants and difficult outward behavior are more common in times of stress.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) defines a personality disorder as a pattern of inner experiences and behaviors that deviate significantly from the expectations of an individual's culture. These patterns create significant emotional distress and/or life impairment (e.g., unstable relationships, employment, addictions, risky behavior).  Since Borderline Personality Disorder is defined as a Cluster B Mental Illness via the DSM & as this sight points out it is a "Lifelong thinking pattern".  I would submit that the best outcome for anyone could expect is some level of "Management of behavior" but it is by no means a "Cure" that many seek.  I'm not being insensitive to anyone here in the forums, but I'm as a someone once told me, "Keeping it real".  There are those who "might" not like what I'm saying, "And yes there have been", but I have done my best to tell the truth / Keeping it real based on the latest facts from respected sources, i.e. Harvard, John Hopkins, etc. Medical schools in addition to studies showing that there is an actual physical defect within the brain itself and unfortunately it is beyond current medical science to either repair the damage or beyond current pharma to really "Cure" the behavior.

No 2 people are alike and this includes those who suffer from BPD. Some have all 9 conditions while some have only 5, but out of those 5 conditions they can be measured on a scale from 1-10 at maybe 8 or 9 on bad behavior traits where the one with all 9 traits is maybe at a intensity level of 4, 5 or maybe a 6. It is THAT pwBPD that "might" see some sort of behavior management improvement via decades of therapy and or pharma as there will be some that will see little if any improvement of behavior. But "behavior conditioning" aka improvement is not a cure, it is merely behavior controlled via drugs and or some therapy unlike someone undergoing cancer treatment via radiation & chemo can be "cured" & the cancer no longer is in the body. Numerous studies have shown that a pwBPD brain is actually malformed & short circuited via the lack of neurotransmitters & neuro-pathways.

I like you have appreciated the input of those who suffer from BPD from time to time in these forums and have learned things from their perspective. But these forums are a place to come to learn, vent, educate ourselves on all things BPD if possible regardless of the source as long as it is fact based vise emotion or behavior based. I understand that sometime emotions get involved and I by no means want to purposely hurt anyone or stigmatized a already devastating Mental Illness. In all my readings, in all my conversations with 2 Ph.d's, more than a couple of therapist, & all my researching of respected medical learning institutions I have yet to see in writing or be told verbally that BPD is curable with any fact based credible sources but the best outcome to be expected is a "Management of behavior". To have a couple of pwBPD come into a forum & say, "I'm cured" is not enough for any reasonable fact based outcome.

@Larm, You said, "I’m carrying my ex’s pain because it allows me to ignore my own deep seated issues. We both had abandonment fears and maybe this drew us together in some way.  I did so much, too much to prove myself only for him to, time and time again, abandon or threaten to abandon the relationship, me, triggering over and over my underlying fear and pain related to childhood. Maybe, focusing and holding onto ‘his’ pain  still remains a way for me to avoid my own. Perhaps I haven’t completely let go of him because I am having such a difficult time facing what it is that is hurting me? 

What you point out is at the heart of my post.  It is a VERY frightening thing to look inward at our own pain & fear. To REALLY dig deep into our past & discover the source of our own pain. For some it is to much & they will continue to recycle toxic r/s. They will try to "fix" others problems without really addressing their own. How can you move forward in life if you don't know where you came from. I believe you know at least part of YOUR issue from your post. "We both had abandonment fears / triggering over and over my underlying free & pain related to childhood", that might be a good place to start.

I understand from my own deep dive & sought out my own reasons for my deep seated pain & abandonment issues, it's NOT easy. It hurt & cut deeply. In all my accomplishments in school & life I never heard my father once tell me he was proud of me or that he loved me. He died before he was 50. Pretty much the same thing from my step mother.  But once I faced those issues among others, I began to heal from within. This makes me a better person because I learned to love myself first. You cannot truly love someone else if you do not love yourself first. And when you love yourself this makes you a better partner in life to someone else who will see it in you & want to be a part of it. What happened to you or any of us as a child is NOT & will NEVER be your or our fault ... .we were kids just wanting our parents to show us some love ... .to hear it from time to time, to show us that they care when we hurt, to let us know that they were in some small way they were proud of us.  Learn from the lack of love, giving, caring that your parents never gave you and learn to love yourself, learn to give to yourself, learn to care for yourself.

Learn to forgive others, not because they deserve forgiveness, but because you deserve peace ... .

Today I decided to forgive you. Not because you apologized, or because you acknowledged the pain that you caused me, but because my soul deserves peace ... .Najwa Debian

As difficult as it was I have forgiving my parents for the lack of caring, love, etc. My father is dead now some 27 years, why should I carry that pain any longer?  My step mother behavior is worse now than when I was growing up & is still VERY manipulative in her day to day life with my brother & sisters to what she needs from them. She attempted to call me yesterday, I actually missed her call. She left a voicemail to tell me "she loved me & wanted to catch up & call her back". What I found out the night before is that my step sisters are an hour north of me on a vacation & she was going to attempt to manipulate me. I haven't spoken to her or anyone else in the family in a couple of years. It was part of my caring for myself knowing that all of them are most likely afflicted with BPD. It's part of that self love that I had to learn. I had to let go of them for me to have any life. Yes it was painful and lonely at times, but it's better than dealing with their flying monkeys & staying off their crazy train.

As several some have pointed out in this post, L.J. Schwing, & others and I hope that I have in mine is that we need to love, care, & heal ourselves. We really have to let go of that pain that that we never spoke of.  We have to look at the person in the mirror & be honest with ourselves ... .as L.J. ask Larm ... .I as ask of everyone who reads this post ... .What do you think is making it hard for you to face your own wounds? What is at the core of your pain?  Why can't you love & care for yourself first?  It's an answer only you can answer after you look deep within yourself ... .you might not like what you find ... .but you'll be on your path of self healing & love and that is a good thing.

J

[Larmoyant]

What do you think is making it hard for you to face your own wound?
LuckyJim

LJ, this is a very difficult question to answer and it’s going to take me some time to figure it out. For now, the first thing that springs to mind is ‘fear of complete and utter despair’. I’ve been carrying this feeling of unworthiness around with me for a long, long time, covering it up in various ways, career, academic success, financial stability, now as a result of this disastrous relationship all my covers have been blown. Every single one and I have absolutely ‘nowhere’ to hide. This is probably why I’ve closed myself off and feel like one of the walking wounded.

.It is a VERY frightening thing to look inward at our own pain & fear. To REALLY dig deep into our past & discover the source of our own pain. For some it is to much & they will continue to recycle toxic r/s. They will try to "fix" others problems without really addressing their own.

.    

JQ, great to hear from you  . I think you’ve completely nailed it here. It does feel like too much and really what can be done about it anyway? The loss happened a long, long time ago and left me with this painful feeling of being unwanted. I wasn't valued and then found someone who completely confirmed that time and time again. Wounds on top of old wounds. How do we ever really get over it? How do you change a lifetime of thinking/knowing that we weren't valued because that is the simple truth?

[anothercasualty]

LJ, this is a very difficult question to answer and it’s going to take me some time to figure it out. For now, the first thing that springs to mind is ‘fear of complete and utter despair’. I’ve been carrying this feeling of unworthiness around with me for a long, long time, covering it up in various ways, career, academic success, financial stability, now as a result of this disastrous relationship all my covers have been blown. Every single one and I have absolutely ‘nowhere’ to hide. This is probably why I’ve closed myself off and feel like one of the walking wounded.
.    

JQ, great to hear from you  . I think you’ve completely nailed it here. It does feel like too much and really what can be done about it anyway? The loss happened a long, long time ago and left me with this painful feeling of being unwanted. I wasn't valued and then found someone who completely confirmed that time and time again. Wounds on top of old wounds. How do we ever really get over it? How do you change a lifetime of thinking/knowing that we weren't valued because that is the simple truth?

I have been lurking for the past few days and this thread speaks to my pain so very deeply. Thank you to the all of the contributors to this thread for your painful self reflection. It really helps those of us who may not be quite as far down the path.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, Larm, I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain.  The fact is that you are worthy and valid just the way you are, although it may take time for that to sink in.  Maybe it's not such a bad thing that your "covers have been blown" and you have "nowhere to hide," because to me it suggests a return to your core.  Become who you are, as Nietzsche suggests.  Strive for authenticity.  Be yourself.  It's OK to explore the wound, because it leads to growth.  Try to identify and carry your own pain again, when you are ready.

LuckyJim

[Inneedofhelp]

I am learning so much in my brief time since finding this site. I am finally in the detach phase and realizing I want so much more peace and happiness in life, but my pwBPD (and trying to divorce) won't let me get away. He threatens and uses me as his object of anger and fear of abandonment. We have 2 children 8 and 12 years old. He has told me that I am the reason why he is being torn from them and it is too much for him to handle-somehow his reasoning is that if I just (fill in the blank for all of his demands) then he wouldn't have anger. I know this is not the case. I do everything to help him be with the kids. He just can't handle that I need to move on.

[Ironcalves]

Friends,

In general, I suspect that most Nons in a BPD r/s carry the pain of his/her BPD SO.  What pain?  Most w/BPD have personality conflicts, childhood wounds, family drama, estranged friends and lovers, as well as other imagined or exaggerated slights from which they suffer.  I think it's OK to listen, but in my view carrying the pain of another is unhealthy because it requires us to drop our own pain.

Why do we carry the pain of a pwBPD?

Detaching, I submit, involves letting go of the pwBPD's pain, which is easier said than done.  Recovery, I suggest, involves identifying and carrying one's own pain again.

Thanks to all,
LuckyJim

Interesting.

Why do you think we carry their pain? Do you mean during the relationship?

I think we carry our pain and their pain becomes enmeshed and then they give us even greater pain (on purpose) through their words and deeds. I have carried that pain. As for their pain; I don't care at all anymore - they went thru stuff as  child, I went through worse - but I don't make the world pay for it. If I can come out of it a functioning truthful society member the fact they can't has always led me to suspect those with BPD are just feebleminded - knowing right and from wrong and not caring, maybe not feeble minded - feeble of character. If you are carrying their pain don't bother although doubtless you'd carry it with less effort!

[JQ]

Inneedofhelp,

You sound like a quick study of mental health & phycology ... .what you have gone through, what you are going through & certainly what you will go through will be one of the hardest, toughest learning lessons in life that you will go through ... .but you can do it because others have. Wanting peace & happiness is a good thing ... .you must find it within yourself first. I feel for you & the daily drama/pain/issues that you must be going through with your divorce & addition to your two kids and trying to find the words to explain to them if not now in the future why things happened the way they did. But I have no doubt that you will find the strength & wisdom when it's needed.

Maybe whatever he hurls at you in order to try to hurt you is best handled if you don't take it personally. I know it's easier said than done ... .but he like my exBPDgf, step mother, 1/2 brother/ step sister all have abandonment issues among other BPD symptoms due to a VERY serious Cluster B Mental Illness. The simple truth is, they all had the Mental Illness long before we met them or realized it. My 1/2 brother has some VERY SERIOUS abandonment issues from 3 plus decades ago with me. Others beside me have told him so but he refused to hear or believe it much like other BPD behavior.  I had to cut all contact with them ... .and I'm better off. I know that will most likely be impossible for you and your soon to be expwBPD giving the fact that they have children together ... .for that I'm truly sorry for you.  I would recommend a good therapist for not only you but for your children to manage the stress/crazy making/flying monkey's in the days, weeks & months ahead.

Ask questions of those in the group ... .you'll find no judgement here because we've been were you are. We truly understand the day to day pain & drama that you have & will go through and if asked we can tell you what worked for us or what didn't work for us. Each pwBPD is different as any 2 people are ... .what worked for us might not work for everyone but most of the pwPBD have similar behavior patterns.

Above all else ... .learn to take care of yourself ... .remember it's the small things in life that will give you joy & happiness.

J