Recording conversations

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Recently I have used the voice recorder on my phone to record conversations I have had when I thought that it may end up in a dysregulation or irrational confrontation.  I have a good sense these days of what topics are triggers.  I have never told her I am recording.

I'm not exactly sure why I record them, but it makes me feel better that if I really needed to convince someone that the person who seems like an angel to the rest of the world can act so irrationally and hurtfully to me, I would at least be able to say, "Listen to this".  It also helps me to listen to the conversation again in a calmer mood to see how I personally reacted and see how I could have improved my approach. 

Has anybody else recorded episodes of dysregulation? 
What have you done with the recordings? 
What are your thoughts about the idea of making such recordings?

[Dragon72]

Recently I have used the voice recorder on my phone to record conversations I have had when I thought that it may end up in a dysregulation or irrational confrontation.  I have a good sense these days of what topics are triggers.  I have never told her I am recording.

I'm not exactly sure why I record them, but it makes me feel better that if I really needed to convince someone that the person who seems like an angel to the rest of the world can act so irrationally and hurtfully to me, I would at least be able to say, "Listen to this".  It also helps me to listen to the conversation again in a calmer mood to see how I personally reacted and see how I could have improved my approach. 

Has anybody else recorded episodes of dysregulation? 
What have you done with the recordings? 
What are your thoughts about the idea of making such recordings?

[formflier]

I do it often.  The purpose is to protect myself if needed.  My wife and I rarely agree on "the facts" of how things went.

A few times I'm shown her written agreements that we made and signed (which validated my point of view... .my memory) and she was disgusted... "Oh... .now you are just going to nitpick me... ."

 

You can't reason with that... .so don't try.

Keep the recordings private.  Keep your phone locked.  Every so often upload those "to the cloud" (I use google docs) so that your phone is not a single point of failure.  Make sure password is secure... .really secure... .to the cloud.

Using recordings to "prove" your point to her... .BAD IDEA.  Using a recording to keep yourself out of jail or privately inform a therapist of what is really going on ... .GOOD IDEA.

My brother in law is not in jail because he had a recording of an altercation.  Cops were going to arrest him... .he played the recording and the police realized they had been duped.

FF

[DaddyBear77]

Dragon72 - I felt exactly the same way - why am I doing this? Why does it make me feel better? I imagined that while I was listening to the crazy things she was saying, there was someone sitting on my night table hearing it too, and somehow, strangely, that made me feel better.

Unfortunately it all came to a crashing end when, despite my VERY careful efforts to hide my iPhone, my uBPDw saw the red bar on top. She grabbed at my phone. At first I tried to resist, but I learned that ANY physical altercation would undoubtedly lead to bad things for ME seeing how I'm twice her size. I handed it to her, she saw I was recording, and she has never stopped berating me, raging at me whenever it comes up, and telling me how horrible i was to violate her privacy like that.

This was a year ago. Literally 5 minutes ago I got yet ANOTHER text asking me to "come clean" and admit I'm still recording her. This is a daily struggle. For a year. And I DID stop. Many days I wish I hadn't stopped.

So, my advise - DO IT but be VERY careful. Consider getting an external device like a USB recorder, and not relying on your iPhone.

[BeagleGirl]

DaddyBear,

Did you stop recording to try to avoid arguments about it, or because you agreed with her that it was wrong and a violation of her privacy?

General question to those who record conversations without the knowledge of pwBPD - Do you think that they would be more comfortable with being recorded if they had equal access to the recordings?  Maybe a reciprocal agreement that either of you can record conversations and they will be uploaded to a place where you both have access? 

I'm also wondering if the idea of the recorded conversations being a tool for understanding how we sound to them and minimizing "he said/she said" arguments might make the idea more palatable.

I'm thinking about starting some recording of conversations and wondering if there is any value in trying to be transparent doing it and why.

BG

[byfaith]

IMO there would be NO value in being transparent about recording conversations. I think that FF's advice on the recordings is very sound. Use them only if they will keep you out of jail.

I have only recorded 2 so far. I use them to go back and hear myself and then realize I am not what she says I am, which I already knew, but sometimes it's good to step back and hear how you presented something.

I regret not turning the phone on sooner on both of them, it would have captured a lot more leading up to what I did record.

Last wed night I came home from church and she started trashing me about leading music at the church and what a hypocrite I am all the while saying this to her 32 year old son ( she was giving him a lesson on what a hypocrite is)

I just go back and listen to hear how demeaning she is and it makes me feel way better about the direction I am going. This kind of behavior from her has been going on for years from her.

[DaddyBear77]

Did you stop recording to try to avoid arguments about it, or because you agreed with her that it was wrong and a violation of her privacy?

BeagleGirl, great question - and the answer is complicated.

There was always a seed of doubt as to whether I was being "ethical" - she had no idea, it seemed like maybe it was wrong, but I felt SO desperate for SOME validation that I wasn't the crazy one, I did it any way. I had the same philosophy as formfiler - I used the recordings twice, both times inside a therapy session, and both with the honest goal of improving the relationship.

When pwBPD found out, you can imagine there was a VERY strong "victim" reaction. I just had a conversation with her an hour ago, where she told me that I had done "like, Amnesty International level bad stuff" to her. She has said multiple times I've violated her human rights. So with that kind of attack, I couldn't help but let my own feelings of guilt get a little more air time in my head.

But like I said, I'd go back to doing it again in a heartbeat if I could be 100% assured it would never get detected.

So I guess the answer is: I'm avoiding arguments. ;-)

[formflier]

OK... .perhaps a funny confession... .

My wife knows that there have been some recordings... .from time to time she will make them as well.  It's hilarious to have her play a recording to prove something that happened... .and have her recording prove her wrong.

You can't buy moments like that... .I've not been able to contain my laughter.

Anyway there have been times when she has accused me of "illegally" recording her... .and in a bad moment I showed her the state law.  We've lived in several "implied consent" states.  Basically the law is that if you are having a conversation with someone, it's implied that it can be recorded by them.  Other states require you to get permission... .or some require you "to inform".

Truth:  While those moments were funny and satisfying (oddly) I would rather be able to erase them from the relationship.  I can tell "net harm" was done (bad outweighs the good).

It's been several months since she has blathered about recordings.  About a week since I thought it wise to record something.

FF