The smallest thing - trigger

[JoeBPD81]

Hi,
I can be validating and rational when I'm not the target, but I get lost when I'm the target.

We were having a good morning texting back and forth while I was at work. She told me I had chicken and veggies for lunch. I got home and she had left already. I saw the veggies coocked, and opened the fridge and saw some chicken and grabbed it to cook it. It was an unopened package. When I went to put the remaining chicken in the fridge, I saw another opened package. So I understood that was the one I was supposed to eat. And I knew this would upset her.  I texted "I'm sorry, I cooked the wrong chicken" and I started to eat. A couple of bites into the meal, I checked the phone and I had a lot of texts.
She was so mad: my excuses sucked, and I can't be honest, that she goes to a lot of trouble explaining her faults to me but I just go ahead and lie, and that makes her so mad. And that if it hurts my feelings to be called a liar (big issue for me) it's my problem, not hers... .Some of this with more colorful language, and much much longer. That I ruined her meal plan for several days... .

I don't understand at all what would I gain by eating chicken instead of eating chicken. So in what scenario I'll be lying about it. I just made a mistake and apologized for it. But it's a $2 mistake, when I pay everything in the house.  It hurts that those 2 dollars matter more than my feelings. I would always eat whatever is convenient, as in food the kids didn't like, or expired food. I don't like to waste.  I was a chef, and nutritionist, but now I barely enter the kitchen because everything upsets her, and she's usually there, when she wants to be alone, reading or whatever. I feel I'm in a mind field.

I saw there was no point in JADEing , so I took an exit. And she hasn't talked to me since. I feel she owes me an apology, but I know that's not happening. I don't feel like talking either. I need to study, but I can't concentrate, and that makes me more resentful, because that happens almost everyday. Either I don't study because she needs me, or because I'm so stressed by her being mad at me that I don't concentrate.

I already apologized, and I got more punishment than I deserved, I think. So I don't feel like going to make a peace offering. How do I start communication again without asking forgiveness when I don't feel like I should?

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[tangomurete]

i feel your pain.  my bf goes off on me when i do / don't do the littlest things as well.  i'm also in the process of studying for a huge exam and he wants me to finish it as soon as possible so i can start working again.  but, like you, when he's angry at me i can't study cause i'm so stress and fixated on what he's going on about or what just happened in general.  what i've been doing lately is waiting until he comes to me.  when he goes off i try to empathize and talk him through it.  if that doesn't work i just tell him that i need to study and him going off on my doesn't help.  and if that doesn't help, i usually tell him that he's wasted an entire day of me trying to get things done, he's just pushing back my progress, and he knows i can't concentrate when he's raging.  he usually comes around more times than not and apologizes... .well, as of lately that is.  hope this helps, just a little!

[confusedbloke]

Hi... .
I've just been going through a weird transitional period with a woman like this (for 2.5 years) and I wonder if it's the fact that you apologised for opening the wrong chicken... ? There was nothing to apologise for... .but you perhaps invited wrath by apologising?

[JoeBPD81]

Maybe I invited the wrath, I don't know. But I don't want to fall into an actitude that says "I don't care if I make mistakes", and also I wouldn't be myself if I didn't care enough to say a simple "I'm sorry". But I'm not her kid, or her worker, or her little brother to boss me around like that.

Months ago, out TV woke up broken. She thought she had done it by accident, and she was really ashamed. That was big, and money is very tight, so it was a big problem for my budget. But during all the trying to fix it and ending up buying a used one after days of looking for another solution... .My biggest concern was to assure her it was OK. No matter how important was the TV or how difficult was the expense, I care more about her. That's how I see things, I never lose my temper about things like that. So when she loses hers for a tray of chicken, and she can talk really nasty to me, I feel I matter less than nothing to her.

She calls my not getting angry a filter that equals lying. If I was honest I would get angry and say nasty things like everybody else. And maybe my relationships would be better for it?

I can think nasty things, I can think: "Maybe if you paid rent, I could buy any food I like and eat whatever I want without incomodating you". But instantly, I think that I don't want to hurt her, and that's not really what I feel, I'm just upset. So I don't say it.

My rational mind says that she is upset too, and she can't control what she says, and it may not be what she really feels. But my feelings say: She cares more about some stupid chicken than what she cares about you. She can believe the most absolute nonsense if it makes her mad with you, before believing you. I mean, if I had ignored the chiken to eat something yummier, and then lied about it, it would have been ridiculous, and she could mock me. But it makes no sense to ignore chicken to eat chicken, same kind, just raw chicken breast.

I knew she would be mad, but I didn't know she would call me a liar and thought I made the mistake on purpose. And then went on for a while saying she didn't care that calling me a liar hurts my feelings. This is what drives me mad, that all the biggest fights in our relationship have been for things that didn't happen. A year from now, she will say "Remember how you ate the wrong chicken and lied about it? I haven't forgotten that, so you have to understand why I don't trust you". And I have a hundred things like this on my back. A lot of resentment for things I haven't done. Before knowing about BPD, I tried desperatelly for her to think and to understand I hadn't done whatever she accused me off. To no avail. Now at least I don't keep arguing and the exchange doesn't escalate to a fight and a break up. But when time passes, her perception doesn't change. She can't trust me for things she thought about me in the past, that weren't true. She blames me for triggering her anorexia, for things she believed I thought, when I never did.

In a way... .Sometimes she lets out a feeling that maybe if she knew she had nothing real to blame me about, that would piss her off a lot. She thinks I want her to think those things are not true, so I am Mr. Perfect, and I don't want to assume blame for anything. And that thought makes her madder about me. I take the blame for things I do, I know I'm not perfect and I have my things that make living with me difficult, like anybody else. But I don't even know who is the person she thinks I am.

If you add all the lies she thinks about me, does she know the real me at all? If she loves, sometimes, that liar, does she love the real me? After the first big thing that I knew it would mark our relationship forever, and it was a lie, I almost had a panick attack to swalow that. Basicaly she tought I had been flirting with my ex-wife, when we had no contact, and I had been talking to her, my GF, about every feeling I had about my divorce, everyday, no matter how pathetic, or how it made me look. Then everything she knew about me didn't matter, and she thought I was still in love with my ex, and I knew she would thought I had cheated her forever, when I didn't. Never before of after I've had such a physical reaction to a feeling. I couldn't breath, and I cried very nervoudly, I crowled on the floor and I couldn't stop. She freaked out, of course. I did too. But I was right, since then, that was the moment that , in her head, she knew I had cheated, and I've had to live with that stigma. I would never say that she is right, because she isn't, but I have to keep in mind she things that, and I don't waste more time trying to convince her. For her it was my moment of betrayal, and for me it was hers, because I had opened my heart to her, and she had not believed a word of my most intimate feelings and pain.

After that, many smaller things like that. She believes things about me that are not real or don't even make sense, and she gets mad about it, and it reinforces her not trusting me.

I hope I can make sense of this, some day. 

[confusedbloke]

Feel for you, as its a bad place to be in.  I know exactly what its like... .  She does love you but in a way that my 6 year old loves me... .  Its like a parent child thing... .and when he gets angry theres no reasoning... .  But 6 year olds grow up and develop with the right reactions, so why cant they?

I took her away for a weekend for her 40th.  Paid for everything, bought her a £200 necklace.  Within 3 hours of her drinking, she was calling me all the names under the sun, snapped the necklace and threw it at me... .and got us kicked out of a club. Not once did she say sorry.  I had to drag it out of her for one measly sorry...   I took that abuse for 2.5 years, because I know deep down shes a caring beautiful woman... .(that's what all victims of abuse say - and it is abuse)... .shes just got issues... .  But Im tougher than that now and shes learning that I wont tolerate this anymore.  Ive started to respect myself.

I think I read that you said you paid for the chicken in the first place?  She has absolutely no right to talk to you like that when its you that paid for it.
If she paid for it, then yes a "sorry" is required... .Or a "whoops, ate the wrong chicken, I'll replace it"... .And be done with it... .Thats not even a sorry, but a recognition that you made a mistake.  Don't be so ready to say sorry... .it just fuels her... .

For the last 2.5 years Ive heard about "boundaries".  Ive never really understood what they are. 
I think I do now.  And she has over stepped yours.  I say "think" as Im still not really sure.

You said "So when she loses hers for a tray of chicken, and she can talk really nasty to me, I feel I matter less than nothing to her. "
Youve allowed her to become like this... .Like I did.  The chicken is irrelevant.  It will be any subject and the outcome will be the same... .chicken, a couch, a light shade, an old girlfriend... .etc... .

You said "I can think nasty things, I can think: "Maybe if you paid rent, I could buy any food I like and eat whatever I want without incomodating you". But instantly, I think that I don't want to hurt her, and that's not really what I feel, I'm just upset. So I don't say it. "

I have set boundaries... .I literally messaged this today... .

***
Ok so the goal is for you to move in.  We both know that.  So (sharp intake of breath)... .here goes... . 
You need to be working solidly for a while with a regular income.
I need to be ok with the dog.
We have not have had a fight in a long time. (you ignoring = gone.  My anger = gone)
Weve been to counselling and have learned to discuss things and can control a situation without the above.
And be totally besotted with each other and respectful... .
Easy eh (wow haha!)... .
What do you think?x
***

Why is that hurting them?  I am setting my expectations and also saying I want to be with her (avoiding the abandonment issues she has), but will not unless A,B,C is met, and I am also stating my shortcomings, so its "not all her fault".
Because in reality I very much love this woman but will not be a punch bag anymore and have found some self worth.

You said "Basicaly she tought I had been flirting with my ex-wife, "
Wow - been there, bought the t-shirt, sold the t-shirt, and then bought another one!  Wow I was so sick of being accused of this.  I have a great relationship with my ex because of the kids and because I want the kids to be smart individuals.  And they are.  And the divorce was painless.

2 weeks ago my ex wife came to pick the kids up from me at the pub.  I was with BPDgf.  I was clearly in panic mode but trying to ignore it.  And BPDgf unbelievably asked if ex wife wanted to stay for a drink... !  What the heck?
We all got on fine and actually it was enjoyable.  When ex wife went, I turned to gf and smiled and just said thank you.  I didnt praise any more than that.  She knew it would make me happy... .  And that was the first time I actually think she genuinely wanted me to be happy.
Im still in shock now.  You will see from my posts what this woman has put me through... .  The difference is incredible...

I bet you have read up on BPD to the hills... .you know all about it like me... .but I bet you don't know how to deal with someone like that as much as you know about the illness?  That's the bit you need to focus on... .YOU!

This strategy might not work for everyone, but it seems to be working for me... .

And I wish you well... .

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot for your answer, it helps. That is my unresolved matter alright.

Before this suspicious partner, I already was pathologicaly honest. I can't lie even in the smallest way. I'm not completely honest, as I can stop talking to someone instead of telling him/her a lie, and that's not honesty. For example, a friend asked me to go to a place in my city to buy him tickets for a concert, it was one hour there and back, I told him I'll go. I heard in the radio that the concert was sold out, and I was with other friends, so they told me "don't go, there are no tickets". But I said I'd go, so I had to go and ask for the tickets and be told no in the spot.

That's kind of my problem with boundaries too. I can't say "I won't tolerate this... ." when the truth is that I AM tolerating this. I know it's a lie, so I can't say it. The other part of the problem is that I take whatever to me to avoid conflict, and that is wrong. It took me 16 years to leave my ex, when I knew she didn't respected me from the begining. And it wasn't as bad as this RS. But this GF respects me a lot more, when she is not upset, that is.

This part of the message is me getting things out of my chest. Maybe it's not relevant, but I haven't talked this with anyone, only parts:

My divorce was painful, I knew  as a couple I had lost interest, and I didn't think she loved me. But I loved my wife as the most important person of my family, I had been with her all my adult life. So it wasn't easy to face life without her. I had a comfortable safe life with her. But It wasn't honest to stay with her and negate her the posibility to be with someone who was really in love with her. After we started talking about separating, I met this woman, and I started having feelings for her, and I told my wife about it! (that's how stupid sincere I am). I never said to this woman that I'd leave my wife, until I did leave, and then it was for good.

It wasn't easy for my ex either, we both went to therapy. And some months after, to move on, she decided it was better to block me from social media and whatsapp. She had a new boyfriend by then. My new GF took it as: she had to block me because something must have been going on. Before that day, she knew exactly how I felt about my ex, I felt really guilty about hurting her (a month after I left, her father died of cancer, she saw him dying). One thing is not being in love with one person, and another is to feel OK about hurting them, or about knowing they are suffering, when they have been your family. It was my first break up ever, I married my first girlfriend. My new GF told me it was OK to want to be friends with her, and have my ex in my life in a place where it didn't hurt. When all hell broke loose, she told me that she had told me that because she thought we would never be together. As in "yeah, you can be friends with your ex, but as long as you are not my boyfriend". She forgot to mention the second part.  The thing is I wasn't even friends with my ex. All my FB friends were common friends, so when she blocked me I told them (so they would stop assuming I read things they posted in her FB), and I "made the mistake" of saying "take care of her" to our friends, who had been closer than family to us. And that was my great betrayal.

I knew and understood if she didn't trust me blindly. I accepted that it was insensitive to her (she didn't have FB) and suspicious. But I had just rented a place with a room for her kids, I had shared everything with her. And I had been honest when I couldn't start a relationship with her when I was still mourning my life. When I had something bad to tell her, I had told her. I had introduced her and the kids to my family. Then I thought there were plenty of signs, stronger than her suspicion, to give me the benefit of the doubt. I didn't know about BPD at all. I had begun to hope for happyness with her, and no problems with my ex because we were both in a new relationship... .And all my hopes were crushed. And I was a cheater, on top of that.

---

Back to the chicken, she did pay for it. If I go shoping, I pay, if she goes, she pays. But she doesn't pay any part of the rent, or house expenses. All my salary goes on that, and a part of my savings every month. I pay for the house for the 4 of us. She pays for food and the school of the kids. They have nowhere else to go, and she couldn't afford any rent, unless she lands a job. She knows I wouldn't kick them to the curb, so I might as well have been maried and the kids were mine. But that imposibility should buy me some respect or gratitude, specially since the kids don't respect any of us. And I wouldn't reward their behavior if they were my kids, but I respect her ways.

I hope I learn to set boundaries. If I didn't have the exams next week, I would have done something fun just for me, and felt better, but trying to study while mad and offended, didn't help.

Almost 24 hours later, she is not talking to me. She said good night when I said it. And today she told me the way to school and her therapy went fine. She says she doesn't know how to make things better and not awkward, and: "I haven't thought about you or the chicken issue at all. I don't mean to say like I don't care, I just simply haven't thought about it at all, I don't know why."

The kids now have less hours in school starting today, so she must have been freaking out for the change in rutine. I still don't feel like studying, I haven't slept well at all. I'll leave for a café or a library to study, because at home I'm gonna be mad.

Take care and thanks a lot for listening.

[isilme]

I already apologized, and I got more punishment than I deserved, I think. So I don't feel like going to make a peace offering. How do I start communication again without asking forgiveness when I don't feel like I should?

Don't.  It just rehashes it all.  I don't know if this is any better, but I hate the rehashing or feeling I need to apologize for things I did not do.  I pretty much fight within to act "normal".  I ignore his coldness, say hello, good morning, goodnight, whatever.  I may send a silly meme during work hours to the chat we use and leave it be.  But I don't chase him when he pushes me away.  I don't seek out a conversation to ask him to apologize when his FEELINGS tell him he is always right.  It just wastes my time and energy, and I need to conserve those as much as I can.  These days I am usually exhausted and so I can't spend time in circular arguments.

After I have quarantined myself from him as much as I can, while being as outwardly normal as I can in times when we can't avoid each other, he usually stops the silent treatment, and it often turns out he struggles with his own shame at blowing up in the first place.  But we've been working on this for a long time. 

Don't apologize.  Chalk it up to "yay, another crazy day" and move on.  For some reason, at least for me, ignoring thigns does far more than drawing attention to them.

[JoeBPD81]

Good advice, isilme , thanks.
I'm usually able to act normal until it's gone. But some days it takes me in a weak moment.
The end of the month is crazy stressful at work, next week I have my exams, both kids have been sick at home in turns, and in two weeks I have surgery for 4 dental pieces in one day! Any changes freak out her, so my surgery is her Problem (she had to nurse back to health 3 men that were abusive to her) .  Oh, and I'm being investigated for my tax return in 2014. I have to prove I'm innocent, they don't have to prove I'm guilty. So I have to gather evidence from 3 years ago when I was living with my ex,or pay around €600. So... .

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks everyone!

Yesterday at night we talked, and hostilities had passed. Then I couldn't sleep for the tax thing, but that's another battle.

I feel like such a newbie when in crisis, I can't believe I dare to give someone else advice, when I can feel so lost. But I guess we provide each other with a view with better perspective. Thanks a lot.

[Roma]

Hi Joe - I so empathise and identify with your post. Wow, its so hard sometimes! I will just say what I try and repeat to myself whenever a blow-up happens (it feels like I've stepped on a landmine sometimes) - None of this is to do with me personally, they are upset about something else altogether, this is them reacting to their internal issues. I have to be like a detective sometimes to work out what the real issue might be. If I do get a sense of what the underlying thing might be (e.g. some abandonment issue) heaven help me if I directly name it. But it does help sometimes to try and frame some more neutral expression of empathy related to my guess.
Since I've been exerting super-human will power not to JADE (too much) when something kicks off, I have to say we've not been having such huge arguments, things move on a little quicker, and I've even had an apology or two for the reactivity. It's still an argument and I end up feeling really lame and a bit crushed by keeping my comments to something I think might sound like empathy or validation. I am finding it a real struggle and try to think of it in terms of working on myself to observe the investment my ego has in being right. But my wounded innocence so wants to let off steam and rage back!
I'm a total newbie here, but I find it so valuable when I hear other people's struggles. Just because you react as we all do in a crisis doesn't mean you can't give advice - we are all learning masses from this all the time and we really are in it together.