Sarcasm

[Biff0710]

Hi everyone,

I have posted here before and I am currently still working on myself and the relationship.  We have been doing couples therapy and it seems to be working for us.  My issue is there tends to be biting sarcasm from my gf sometimes and it takes me back to a very dark place.  Has anyone else experienced sarcasm as another form of emotional abuse or am I being too sensitive?

[prof]

Yes, definitely.

Sarcasm isn't uBPDw's first method, but she often ends up there.  Especially when I set some boundary.   "Yes, massa!" is one of her favorites.  :\

[enlighten me]

My exgf would make hurtful comments and try to play them off as her being sarcastic. I don't think she knew the difference between sarcasm and caustic remarks.

[BeagleGirl]

Sarcasm can be really hard to deal with.  I had a situation that demonstrated the varying impact of a sarcastic remark pretty well and wonder if it may lead to a technique you could use.

The scene was lunch at a restaurant with my parents and children.  My dad squeezed my (overweight) mom's upper arm, looked at S18 and said "Look how strong grandma is getting". 

It was obvious to me (and my mother) that this was a sarcastic way of pointing out how fat mom's arm was.  Mom was apologetic but hurt ("I know I need to lose weight".  I was stunned and angry, both that Dad would say something so hurtful and that he would do it in a way that involved S18.

It took me several days (and some coaching from members here) to talk with S18 about the incident.  I asked him ":)o you remember when grandpa squeezed grandma's arm and said "Look how strong grandma is getting"?  What did you think about that?" 

S18's response - "I thought grandma must have started working out and grandpa is proud of her."

So I took the sarcastic comment as {I feel} it was intended and ended up hurt and angry.  S18 took it at face value and came to a conclusion that probably would have shamed his grandpa.  If S18 or I had said to my mom "Sounds like you've been working hard and grandpa is proud of that.  I need to check out these muscles.  Wanna arm wrestle?" I think my dad's motives would have been properly revealed and/or diverted.

I don't think you are being too sensitive (otherwise I would need to think that I am too sensitive ), but I do think that responding with hurt only rewards and encourages the behavior.  What if you tried reflecting back to her the sarcastic remark minus the sarcasm and went on face value?  Choose to take the sting out of the remark.  If the goal is to hurt you, then she will have to acknowledge and do so more overtly. 

If she calls out the behavior, you can be honest and say "There are times that your comments hurt me because I feel they are sarcastic.  I'm working to make sure I don't read anything into your tone that creates hurt and anger in me and conflict with you.  When those situations come up, it helps me to repeat back your words and what I think they mean without my perception of sarcasm to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

Have any sarcastic comments that we could role play this type of response with?

[Biff0710]

Thanks for the reply Beaglegirl!  The example I have is before bed we were watching tv and my gf went back into the bedroom.  Now at this time she didn't mention what she was doing back there all I knew is she walked back there.  After a few minutes I decided I was going to bed so I started to close the house down turning the lights and tv off.  Before I turned the last light off I yelled back to the bedroom... ." are you done out here?"  I get the response "does it look like I'm done out there?"  Now it may seem like that maybe isn't much but to me it felt awful due to all the emotional abuse double bind scenarios we had gone through before.  I was just trying to be nice and was answered in a way I didn't find that it was appropriate.  I was just looking for a yes I'm done or something similar. I feel that I had no clue if she was coming out to the living room or not that is why I asked.  It just wears me down not getting straight responses. Makes me just want to quit and leave.

Sarcasm can be really hard to deal with.  I had a situation that demonstrated the varying impact of a sarcastic remark pretty well and wonder if it may lead to a technique you could use.

The scene was lunch at a restaurant with my parents and children.  My dad squeezed my (overweight) mom's upper arm, looked at S18 and said "Look how strong grandma is getting". 

It was obvious to me (and my mother) that this was a sarcastic way of pointing out how fat mom's arm was.  Mom was apologetic but hurt ("I know I need to lose weight".  I was stunned and angry, both that Dad would say something so hurtful and that he would do it in a way that involved S18.

It took me several days (and some coaching from members here) to talk with S18 about the incident.  I asked him ":)o you remember when grandpa squeezed grandma's arm and said "Look how strong grandma is getting"?  What did you think about that?" 

S18's response - "I thought grandma must have started working out and grandpa is proud of her."

So I took the sarcastic comment as {I feel} it was intended and ended up hurt and angry.  S18 took it at face value and came to a conclusion that probably would have shamed his grandpa.  If S18 or I had said to my mom "Sounds like you've been working hard and grandpa is proud of that.  I need to check out these muscles.  Wanna arm wrestle?" I think my dad's motives would have been properly revealed and/or diverted.

I don't think you are being too sensitive (otherwise I would need to think that I am too sensitive ), but I do think that responding with hurt only rewards and encourages the behavior.  What if you tried reflecting back to her the sarcastic remark minus the sarcasm and went on face value?  Choose to take the sting out of the remark.  If the goal is to hurt you, then she will have to acknowledge and do so more overtly. 

If she calls out the behavior, you can be honest and say "There are times that your comments hurt me because I feel they are sarcastic.  I'm working to make sure I don't read anything into your tone that creates hurt and anger in me and conflict with you.  When those situations come up, it helps me to repeat back your words and what I think they mean without my perception of sarcasm to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

Have any sarcastic comments that we could role play this type of response with?

[BeagleGirl]

I can understand how "little" things like that can feel huge after being verbally battered in a million other ways (big or small).  Unfortunately, I think this might be an instance where you are just going to have to pick your battles.  In the future, either don't ask - tell her "I'm turning off the lights and closing up the house now" and leave it at that or take the sarcastic comment at face value, take a look around the room, and either say "Yep, looks like you're done in here" or, if there is something of hers out of place say "Not quite.  I see that x has not been put away.  I'll leave the light on for you."

These sarcastic comments could either be bad habit or "fight bait" for her.  Habits won't be broken unless she is in agreement that they SHOULD be broken, and "fight bait" is better left alone.  If you think it's a bad habit, find a time when she hasn't just thrown out a sarcastic comment (maybe wait for the next morning) and let her know that there is something about sarcastic responses that you are sensitive to.  She may not realize it, but you feel your sarcasm sensitivity triggered by her and are concerned that it is impacting your feelings towards her.  You are asking for her help in dealing with that sensitivity and wonder if she would be willing to have you start sharing those times when you feel "triggered" with her to see if you can work through it together.  If she gives you permission, you can start addressing statements like ":)oes it look like I am?" in a matter of fact "You know, that statement seems to have triggered that sensitivity I think I have to sarcasm.  Do you mind if I talk through it with you to try to figure out why I'm reacting so strongly to something so seemingly small?" 

If her response is "You're just too sensitive." then that's a clear statement that she doesn't care if she does something that hurts you and your relationship.  Then you get to decide if this is a battle worth fighting or if you save your energy for the other battles that leave you so worn out that the sarcasm becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.

What do you think?

[formflier]

Not getting a straight answer to a straight question... .boy oh boy... .that is something that has been resistant to change in my r/s.

I've tried various tactics and none of them really work, so I've worked on being less sensitive. 

I've also come to realize that direct communication is good for a relationship, so I try to "stand up" for that as much as possible... .but in a way that is helpful to the r/s.

So... this is my latest tactic... .I feel good about it but it honestly doesn't seem to be working.  I get lots of sighs and grumps.

"Hey babe... .I'm turning off the lights, are you all done out here"

FFw
":)oes it look like I'm done?" (I've heard this a million times... .drives me bananas... )

FF
"I can't tell, so I figured I would be courteous and ask.  In the future, it would mean a lot to me to answer a direct question with a direct answer."

Then hush about it... .she knows what she is doing is hurtful to the r/s... .tons of counselors have let her know.  I just let her know that I know... .(again)... .but only once for that incident.  Then I'm done with it.

If she apologized I would consider discussing it further... other than that... .I don't talk about it any more.

I have no idea how that all fits in with the "rules" on bpdfamily... .but that's what I do.  I value being direct... .so I am direct with people.

FF

[MrRight]

Sarcasm?

Oh sarcasm would be a joy.

My pwBPD wife skips the sarcasm and goes directly for ridicule.

The best response? None. Just tighten your lips and wait for it to pass.

[formflier]

The best response? None. Just tighten your lips and wait for it to pass.

If that works for you, then perhaps that is best.

There is a certain amount of "validation" that comes with "putting up" with a behavior. 

On the other hand... .there are some behaviors that come and go and getting through them with the least amount of drama (ignoring them) can be best.

Trial and error is in order to figure this out... .there is also an effort to figure out what "works" dysfunctionally for the other person, and make sure that stops working.

So, when a ridiculing comment comes out... .perhaps try to stay friendly... "Oh my babe... .I'm taken aback... .are there feelings you wish to share with me?  (Obvious ploy to find a validation target)"

If feelings are shared... .validate.  If opinions of you (the object of ridicule are shared)... express hurt and exit. (assuming the ridicule continues)

FF

[MrRight]

If that works for you, then perhaps that is best.

There is a certain amount of "validation" that comes with "putting up" with a behavior. 

On the other hand... .there are some behaviors that come and go and getting through them with the least amount of drama (ignoring them) can be best.

Trial and error is in order to figure this out... .there is also an effort to figure out what "works" dysfunctionally for the other person, and make sure that stops working.

So, when a ridiculing comment comes out... .perhaps try to stay friendly... "Oh my babe... .I'm taken aback... .are there feelings you wish to share with me?  (Obvious ploy to find a validation target)"

If feelings are shared... .validate.  If opinions of you (the object of ridicule are shared)... express hurt and exit. (assuming the ridicule continues)

FF

The worst is car ridicule - 30 minutes of driving time remain and she is at it non stop. I tried denying the essence of her ridicule - rebutting it - but seems to get nowhere and just intensify her attacks. No exit when you are driving to pick up a child from school.