grey area...is it possible?

[lostandconfused6]

Does anyone have any tips on getting your pwBPD to see the grey area in certain things? I think i'm making head way with it but i don't want to be pushy

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

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[ScottishKin]

I don't think it's impossible, it's just that splitting is such an inate and natural defense mechanism that any attempt to understand shades of grey is like asking them to do complicated algebra whist reciting the alphabet backwards, especially when they've gone black.

Of course, when everything is peachy your relationship is in the wonderful, loving zone, bringing up their lack of perception in terms of shades of grey is tantamount to insulting them and there you run the risk of setting your BPDer off.

The best you can possibly hope for, I guess, is validating their perception, understanding why they see things the way they do and explaining that your perception is different, more nuanced but in no way denigrates or invalidated 'their reality', which, as you must strongly put across as lovingly and no-patronising as possible, you completely accept as their interpretation.

[Grey Kitty]

Convincing somebody who has painted a situation BLACK (or WHITE) to see the grey is nearly impossible, if they don't want to... .and pwBPD really do have limited capacity in this area.

Much more feasible is to convince your pwBPD that YOU don't agree with their assessment, and aren't going to argue with them anymore about it. Even if their last word is something along the lines if "If you aren't with me, you are against me, you are evil... ."

Exactly what is this about? Pick ONE situation typical of this, and give us details... .I usually find specific situations far easier to resolve than general problems.

[Pulka]

Entirely possible, given their mood at the time and topic at hand.

I've found walking helpful whilst talking - this reduces the likelihood of an outburst, since they're concentrating on walking in public and not focusing particularly on any specific statement you may say.

I've found they will hone in on a weakness - this will then circle around something you said years/months/weeks ago, which they believe counteracts that point but probably unrelated and out of context.  They won't let go of this 'weakness' and will bash you round the head with it, until you give up.

So always  prepare yourself prior to difficult discussions; think of crucial points, ask them questions to reiterate your point and use what I lovingly call fluffing comments 'for our future' 'I know this means a lot to you' 'I want what's best for us.'

Try not to let them change the topic; if your pWBPD has a habit of looking down/away, ask them politely to look at you whilst they're speaking so you can hear them. This allows them to register your facial features and emotions, it can help them read emotional cues.

[Pulka]

That said - don't be angry/upset when asking them to look at you. That may have the opposite effect!

[lostandconfused6]

Convincing somebody who has painted a situation BLACK (or WHITE) to see the grey is nearly impossible, if they don't want to... .and pwBPD really do have limited capacity in this area.

Much more feasible is to convince your pwBPD that YOU don't agree with their assessment, and aren't going to argue with them anymore about it. Even if their last word is something along the lines if "If you aren't with me, you are against me, you are evil... ."

Exactly what is this about? Pick ONE situation typical of this, and give us details... .I usually find specific situations far easier to resolve than general problems.

There are many situations this is about but 1 in particular i have mentioned it in my other posts but no specificly there is a girl that he was involved with for a couple months before i came around, things had fizzled out and there communication was sparse at best. She was married when they were "involved" but she pursued him initially gave him sob stories of control and abuse and how she couldn't leave (they were all bull and it was later exposed she told this story to any guy that would listen) my pwBPD loves to try to "save" and help people and he had just gotten left by his fiance so he was in a bad way he let himself be intimate with her 1 time and quickly realized it was the biggest mistake of his life (i saw the texts he had send her after it happened) but he also isn't the kind of man that sleeps around and never talks to girls again especially given this particular situation he was very ashamed of himself and tried to make himself have feelings for her and he couldn't do it even after she left her husband and moved back home it just didn't work but they kept minimal contact. Now fast forward a couple months i come along  and things are great the girl finds out about me and tries to commit suicide of course my boyfriend feels responsibility for this (which i don't believe he should) so he still keeps in contact with her and she starts trying harder to be with him he cuts her off for a couple months she weazles her way back in saying oh i'm going to drag you into my divorce if you don't talk to me and things like that (this girl is disgusting at best... .very ugly... very stupid... .works a dead end job... .and has a mentally ill deranged sick family that she is very close to oh and also claims to be a christian but stepped outside of her marriage with the first guy that took her bait) so my pwBPD continues to be her "friend" behind my back lies to me about speaking to her and so on and so forth he has now a year and a half later supposedly put his foot down and told her again they are just friends and that's all it will ever be... .i see the texts between them they are friendly convo but to me they are a little to frequent on her end she has also decided to make herself known to his parents (that he currently lives with) that their grandparents were friends his parents being of a lower level of intelligence welcome her and make her a "family" friend so she pops by the house my pwBPD has asked his mother to please not have her there as much or make her feel as welcome to where she can just stop by his mothers response "i'm 60 years old you aren't going to tell me what to do tell her (talking about me) to get over it" of course she doens't know what happened between them in the past because he's ashamed of himself and also ashamed that he let himself sink as low as to be involved with a girl like her... .

he says he doesn't see why being just friends with her is a problem he also acknowledges how i feel about it and why but doesn't understand it

1 thing about him is his intentions are concrete even if his actions don't always match it and his intentions with her are just friends

It bothers me because of the their recent past and the lies that have come with his involvement with her... .I have also told him there is no way of knowing her real intentions she could see it as "he has this beautiful successful girlfriend and he still chooses to keep me around there must be a reason" i'm a girl and i am friends with plenty of girls i know how their minds work 90% of the time with things like this... .he is moving in a couple months and said he is going ghost on her never speaking never seeing none of it... .he said he won't do it know because he isn't giving her the chance to beg plead maniplulate or guilt him into staying her friend which is what she always does... .it's just frustrating i try so hard to not dwell on it and i feel like we talk about it and he sees my side and finally understands but then it's like nothing is done  about it... .am i being blind and dumb? or am i being selfish and controlling? he says nothing good about this girl other than i'm only friends with her so what she does doesn't matter to me and i just feel bad for her... .i've asked him to just set boundaries no hanging out and texts maybe a couple times a week... .but it's like he can't do it it's either all or nothing no in between... .idk how to handle it anymore

[Grey Kitty]

Summary: she is a toxic, messed up, maniputive hot mess, and has got your pwBPD trying to be "nice" or "save her".

Ultimately, it is his choice and you can't do anything about that. Think about what you can live with and what you can't.

I'm guessing that it would be a deal breaker if he cheated with her. I'm also guessing that he regrets that kind of involvement with her the one time when he was single and thus it wasn't even cheating (for him, at least) that he won't do that.

This leaves her creating drama storms and yanking him into them... .which ends up upsetting him (and you)

My suggestion is to quickly wash your hands of the whole mess, with a bit of sympathy and a clear change of topic... .something like:

Oh honey, that is hard to deal with. She is creating drama again. I hate that you are upset, but I really can't stand to be involved with any more of her drama.

Can we talk about something fun like _______ instead?

(Make a huge effort NOT to be involved with her drama, and not to let him vent in detail about her latest exploits to you... .that is getting pulled into the drama!)

BTW, his being friends with her isn't a problem. The problem is that she won't let it be that way. But don't try too hard to convince him of this... .I think he kinda knows, and will find his own way there better with less guidance than with more!

[lostandconfused6]

Summary: she is a toxic, messed up, maniputive hot mess, and has got your pwBPD trying to be "nice" or "save her".

Ultimately, it is his choice and you can't do anything about that. Think about what you can live with and what you can't.

I'm guessing that it would be a deal breaker if he cheated with her. I'm also guessing that he regrets that kind of involvement with her the one time when he was single and thus it wasn't even cheating (for him, at least) that he won't do that.

This leaves her creating drama storms and yanking him into them... .which ends up upsetting him (and you)

My suggestion is to quickly wash your hands of the whole mess, with a bit of sympathy and a clear change of topic... .something like:

Oh honey, that is hard to deal with. She is creating drama again. I hate that you are upset, but I really can't stand to be involved with any more of her drama.

Can we talk about something fun like _______ instead?

(Make a huge effort NOT to be involved with her drama, and not to let him vent in detail about her latest exploits to you... .that is getting pulled into the drama!)

BTW, his being friends with her isn't a problem. The problem is that she won't let it be that way. But don't try too hard to convince him of this... .I think he kinda knows, and will find his own way there better with less guidance than with more!

Wow i think you really hit the nail on the head

you described her perfectly!

Cheating would 100% end everything knowing him i dont think he could live with the guilt or stress of it just seeing how he handles that stuff now, I think it would eat him alive.

I drop it then i feel like i'm slapped in the face with something involving her, but i am trying to stop and i do feel he is coming around the less i push it.

I am still a girl and of course my biggest fear is hes going to be with her because of guilt and responsibility and because she's 5 min away from him (for the time being)... this is something i am i therapy for.

In response to what you said about her not letting it be just friends that is exactly how i feel. I don't think her intentions are to pure and he thinks because she's so stupid she isn't capable of lying and manipulating. In all actuality i don't think he wants to admit that someone like her can get one over on him. It's just a mess I love him so much and with all the other things he's trying to handle with himself and trying to get help with his BPD i just feel like this girl is a stressor and annoyance that he doesn't need. His response to that is "she doesn't even matter she's such a tiny part of my life she has no effect on it except when it comes to you" I just want to shake him into reality.

Sorry  i just needed to see if my way of thinking was on track or if i was being crazy! I really appreciate your response!