The wheels are coming off even more

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a the continued development from my last post "The wheels are coming off in our co-parent arrangement"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=310811.0

I have heard many acrimonious couples whose animosity subside over time. I never foresee, three years after our separation, our relationship suddenly degrade from cooperative to bitter adversarial.

I have mentioned she has unilaterally refuse direct communication with me and asked to correspond via text and email only. Some of you noted that this is a fine arrangement. Well the bottom really fall out. She barely reply to any form of communication at all.

Saturday I went to pick up my six year old son. She wouldn't walk him down the stairs. Instead she sent my older son to walk him down. (My older son refuse to stay with me. That's another tragedy). In the evening I drop him off. I texted her one hour prior to make sure she would meet him. No answer. I texted her 15 minutes before I arrived. Again no answer. I was stressing if she's at home to pick him up at all. She was. She just rather not answer me.

I brought it up to her. I said communication will be much smoother if she simply acknowledge with a simple "ok". This only drew her angry tirade. Now she routinely ignore my text and email.

The other night I dropped off my kid to her. She walked pass me to the car. No pleasantry. Kiddo was asleep inside. I told her to hold him up so I could take his seatbelt vest off. She insisted to do it the hard way on her own. I thought she didn't heard me at first. Then I figured she was intentionally ignoring me. I asked her that I have several questions waiting for her answer. She got bad in an angry tone "Just leave me alone".

At this point I begin to accept she is a lost clause. I want to send her a note telling her she was rude and mean and acted very disrespectful to me. I don't expect anything good to come out of this. I want to do this for myself. I need some dignity. I want to express my displeasure. All these years I never directly express any negative feeling about her. I danced around so to not trigger her. I swallowed my all my bad feeling. I feel less of a worthy person when I let her trample me like that.

Yesterday she has sent me a bill for car maintenance. She is financially depend on me. All the time I paid with no question asked. This time I plan to ignore her as a tit for tat. I felt it was wrong for me to be a nice guy at all time. I'm going to be an ass. I do it for my personal growth.

[half-life]

This is a the continued development from my last post "The wheels are coming off in our co-parent arrangement"

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=310811.0

I have heard many acrimonious couples whose animosity subside over time. I never foresee, three years after our separation, our relationship suddenly degrade from cooperative to bitter adversarial.

I have mentioned she has unilaterally refuse direct communication with me and asked to correspond via text and email only. Some of you noted that this is a fine arrangement. Well the bottom really fall out. She barely reply to any form of communication at all.

Saturday I went to pick up my six year old son. She wouldn't walk him down the stairs. Instead she sent my older son to walk him down. (My older son refuse to stay with me. That's another tragedy). In the evening I drop him off. I texted her one hour prior to make sure she would meet him. No answer. I texted her 15 minutes before I arrived. Again no answer. I was stressing if she's at home to pick him up at all. She was. She just rather not answer me.

I brought it up to her. I said communication will be much smoother if she simply acknowledge with a simple "ok". This only drew her angry tirade. Now she routinely ignore my text and email.

The other night I dropped off my kid to her. She walked pass me to the car. No pleasantry. Kiddo was asleep inside. I told her to hold him up so I could take his seatbelt vest off. She insisted to do it the hard way on her own. I thought she didn't heard me at first. Then I figured she was intentionally ignoring me. I asked her that I have several questions waiting for her answer. She got bad in an angry tone "Just leave me alone".

At this point I begin to accept she is a lost clause. I want to send her a note telling her she was rude and mean and acted very disrespectful to me. I don't expect anything good to come out of this. I want to do this for myself. I need some dignity. I want to express my displeasure. All these years I never directly express any negative feeling about her. I danced around so to not trigger her. I swallowed my all my bad feeling. I feel less of a worthy person when I let her trample me like that.

Yesterday she has sent me a bill for car maintenance. She is financially depend on me. All the time I paid with no question asked. This time I plan to ignore her as a tit for tat. I felt it was wrong for me to be a nice guy at all time. I'm going to be an ass. I do it for my personal growth.

[HopefulDad]

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.  I was one who said text/email communication is best and still think so despite her refusal to reply to them.  You at least have a written record of her lack of communication and cooperation should you need to show it to a judge down the road.  In the meantime, as long as she's complying to the custody order, there's not a whole lot you can do.  I doubt anything in that order says she's compelled to reply to you.

As for paying her car maintenance bills and such, this should not be happening unless it's part of your support order.  The support order defines your financial obligations to her and you shouldn't step outside that for two reasons: (1) She needs to learn how to manage her finances on her own, and (2) you _might_ be setting a precedent that gives her ammo in court to make such bills part of the support order if they aren't included already.  If you don't have a support order in place, get one in place pronto.

As for "tit-for-tat" and "being an ass", I personally try to avoid doing such things with my ex.  I try to be above that.  I feel if I do that, I'm sinking to her level.  I suggest avoiding sinking to you're ex's level.  You can take the high road and still be firm, though.  For example, if she sends you a car maintenance bill, you can simply tell her, "I received the car bill.  FYI, I won't be paying it as I already give you support.  Please use that support to cover your bills."  If she blows up, just reply, "I've said all I needed to say on this." and then drop it once and for all.  You don't need to give her the silent treatment back.

[Panda39]

Hi half-life,

I hear your frustration, I've been there with my SO's uBPDxw.  I know it's hard to not want to go tit for tat with this BS but she's baiting you and you are taking the bait.  She's looking for drama, for engagement with you... .negative engagement is still engagement.  Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) it leads to more drama.  I know that in the short term writing a letter to her might feel better but will it accomplish anything?  Unless she receives treatment she will not change, she will never be consistently nice, normal, or polite.  I suggest you hope for good behavior but always expect to get the worst, that way you are better prepared and less hurt/upset by this stuff.  She is who she is and she is going to do what she's going to do.  The only person you can control in this situation is yourself.


Hopefuldad has a good suggestion here... .

I suggest avoiding sinking to you're ex's level.  You can take the high road and still be firm, though.  For example, if she sends you a car maintenance bill, you can simply tell her, "I received the car bill.  FYI, I won't be paying it as I already give you support.  Please use that support to cover your bills."  If she blows up, just reply, "I've said all I needed to say on this." and then drop it once and for all.  You don't need to give her the silent treatment back.

Panda39

[half-life]

There is no court order. We have not divorced yet. The procrastination on her part is another major frustration. The fact that we are still legally married feels like a mockery to me.

There is no agreement on car payment. I used to paid all the expense because I made all the money. After separation I dutifully continue the same way to provide them a stable life. She should be financially better off since she receive the same payment but has one less person in the household. Also she has since taken a part time job. I've never pressed she to adjust the payment to take into account of her new income.

It was an overstatement to say I want to be an ass. What I mean is I am a nice guy all my life. I have done much to make her life easier. The way she held contempt of me, I feel like an insult for me to make any effort for her.

[HopefulDad]

I don't understand.  Are you saying you've been separated for 3 years and don't even have temporary orders in place?  Have either of you filed?

[half-life]

We filed for divorce more than one year ago. We are doing this collaboratively. In the last few months we are going to a mediator to help sort through the details. Mostly it is for her education because she freaks out with the thought that she has to manage a household independently. That's also the reason it has dragged on for so long. She just freaks out but cannot lay down what she actually wants and to ask for it.

What bother me here I is outside of the reach of legal system I believe. I want us to have minimal respect of each other. I want use to have effective communication in the interest of the kids. The way she slam the door shut is creating so much unnecessary stress and really killing off any avenue of cooperation.

[Panda39]

We filed for divorce more than one year ago. We are doing this collaboratively.

My question is... .is she collaborating? What is her reason to?  You are still paying to support her she has no motivation here to speed up the process. How long do you intend to go with this process? Do you have a deadline in mind for halting this process and going to court? More than a year seems a long time to be doing this?  How long does a typical Collaborative Divorce take?

[HopefulDad]

We filed for divorce more than one year ago. We are doing this collaboratively. In the last few months we are going to a mediator to help sort through the details. Mostly it is for her education because she freaks out with the thought that she has to manage a household independently. That's also the reason it has dragged on for so long. She just freaks out but cannot lay down what she actually wants and to ask for it.

I think the collaborative divorce method is by far the best way to go... .if you were divorcing someone without a PD.  But since that isn't the case, I suggest getting temporary orders in place.  There are so many variables to deal with in a divorce and the problem trying to do a collaborative divorce with a PD sufferer is that the variables will be constantly changing.  Temporary orders will lock down some of those variables (like support amounts), leaving you fewer to deal with.

What bother me here I is outside of the reach of legal system I believe. I want us to have minimal respect of each other. I want use to have effective communication in the interest of the kids. The way she slam the door shut is creating so much unnecessary stress and really killing off any avenue of cooperation.

Well, there isn't a whole lot you can do here, but you might have options.  Some states have co-parenting communication software in which you each message one another on everything kid-related.  In addition to using it to communicate with each other, it acts as a log of all communication for the court to review.  Messages cannot be deleted, unlike texts and emails.  If your state offers this service, you could ask the court to make it part of your co-parenting plan.  Maybe in the face of knowing a court can review her communication methods, she will be both more responsive and nicer.

In general, though, you have no control over how communicative and civil she is towards you.  It's a difficult fact to swallow, but the sooner you do the better you can work around it.

[40days_in_desert]

half-life, I'm sorry to hear about the struggle that you're dealing with. It sounds a lot like my ex although she is going through a "nice" phase at the moment. I'm not sure what state you're in but you need to have a financial agreement in place signed by both of you; preferably filed with the court system. The agreement should detail all of what you are responsible for. Ask for feedback on this site but a lawyer would be best to guide you through this. You need to have her new income factored in as it represents a change in circumstances. You should be able to find a child support calculator online for the state that you live. As far a spousal support, there usually isn't a specific dollar amount but that's another reason why you should consult with an attorney. If you are unable to afford an attorney, try to see if there is financial assistance or if you are able to borrow money from friends or family. It'll be worth it in the end.
As far as her not responding to your texts and emails, I echo HopefulDad's advice. She doesn't have to respond but document everything as some of her non-responses may be valuable to bring up in the divorce case depending on what she is not responding to. If it has to do with your child(ren) or related to matters to resolve and bring your divorce to a close, it may show her as non-cooperative. Make sure you make everything specific and only what is necessary to communicate. Her being cordial isn't a legal requirement and hopefully one day it won't be something you care about personally. Let her be her, good or bad. You can only control your actions and reactions, not hers.

[half-life]

With respect to divorce settlement, I have gave her a detail proposal two weeks ago. I am waiting for her to consult her attorney and response. I hope this is the last leg of the draw out process.

I have done all the accounting work and come up with the settlement I consider very fair. She is not good with number. I would let her consult with her own professional to understand it. I just want her to make to take action and not sit on it!

The other bombshell I have not mentioned. She was out on a family trip and also spend time with her new lover. I saw her came back with an engagement ring! I have no feeling about she and her new lover. But she need to get her priority right and get working on the divorce. We are already not in speaking term at that time. I did not mentioning anything at all.

[Panda39]

Her engagement might work to your advantage and motivate her to keep the divorce process moving.

Hang in there,
Panda39