Introduction

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all.  I'm 36, mom of 2 young kids (married), just waking up to some BP/NP traits that seem to go back at least 3 generations on both sides of my family.  I'd generally describe my FOO and childhood environment as "high-conflict with a twist of unhealthy", but little to none of it registers as abuse.  I find myself extremely confused about the lines between healthy and unhealthy behaviors, unhealthy versus truly abusive behaviors, anxiety versus healthy concern, etc.  There are a lot of things I never gave a second thought to on my own behalf, but now that I have kids it's pretty stressful not to be able to distinguish these things.  I'm also looking around at acquaintances in my adult life and seeing a lot of boundary problems... .I'm missing the initial red flags somehow, and then I either get blindsided by something or in a few cases have gotten overly suspicious when something didn't merit it.  Leaving further detail to later posts, I'm really glad to have found this site.  It seems like a great resource and having a place for dialogue that's anonymous but with actual human beings is comforting.  Many thanks to those who maintain it!

FAMILY HISTORY/DESCRIPTION:

My sister (younger, also in her 30's) has all the BPD traits, is a narcotics addict, has never really had a job and subsists on disability payments and handouts.  She has a lot of diagnoses; not sure if BPD is one of them.  Dad has most (possibly all) of the NPD traits and one aunt claims he has full-blown NP-Disorder, but he had a mostly successful career and managed to re-marry after a very high-conflict divorce with my mom, so I'm not sure he'd be considered "disordered." Grandfathers and uncles on both sides of the family also have/had strong NP traits.  Mom has many of the BP traits, but I doubt she has actual "disorder."  She's never remarried and has almost no friends, but has had a respectable career.  Her mom and most of the females on that side of the family have BP traits, and an aunt who married into the family may be actual BPD.   Only (mom) diagnoses I know of are Depression and Dissociative Disorder, though I've never seen her dissociate.  Dad claims she has a bi-polar diagnosis but I suspect he made that up.  Mom, Dad, and both siblings (I also have a younger brother) are all on medications for one thing or another, and almost all extended family on mom's side are too.  Nephew (sister's middle school-aged son) also has health and some psychological issues but he's still maturing so those are unclear.

[Heir2theThorn]

Hi all.  I'm 36, mom of 2 young kids (married), just waking up to some BP/NP traits that seem to go back at least 3 generations on both sides of my family.  I'd generally describe my FOO and childhood environment as "high-conflict with a twist of unhealthy", but little to none of it registers as abuse.  I find myself extremely confused about the lines between healthy and unhealthy behaviors, unhealthy versus truly abusive behaviors, anxiety versus healthy concern, etc.  There are a lot of things I never gave a second thought to on my own behalf, but now that I have kids it's pretty stressful not to be able to distinguish these things.  I'm also looking around at acquaintances in my adult life and seeing a lot of boundary problems... .I'm missing the initial red flags somehow, and then I either get blindsided by something or in a few cases have gotten overly suspicious when something didn't merit it.  Leaving further detail to later posts, I'm really glad to have found this site.  It seems like a great resource and having a place for dialogue that's anonymous but with actual human beings is comforting.  Many thanks to those who maintain it!

FAMILY HISTORY/DESCRIPTION:

My sister (younger, also in her 30's) has all the BPD traits, is a narcotics addict, has never really had a job and subsists on disability payments and handouts.  She has a lot of diagnoses; not sure if BPD is one of them.  Dad has most (possibly all) of the NPD traits and one aunt claims he has full-blown NP-Disorder, but he had a mostly successful career and managed to re-marry after a very high-conflict divorce with my mom, so I'm not sure he'd be considered "disordered." Grandfathers and uncles on both sides of the family also have/had strong NP traits.  Mom has many of the BP traits, but I doubt she has actual "disorder."  She's never remarried and has almost no friends, but has had a respectable career.  Her mom and most of the females on that side of the family have BP traits, and an aunt who married into the family may be actual BPD.   Only (mom) diagnoses I know of are Depression and Dissociative Disorder, though I've never seen her dissociate.  Dad claims she has a bi-polar diagnosis but I suspect he made that up.  Mom, Dad, and both siblings (I also have a younger brother) are all on medications for one thing or another, and almost all extended family on mom's side are too.  Nephew (sister's middle school-aged son) also has health and some psychological issues but he's still maturing so those are unclear.

[Panda39]

Hi Heir2theTorn,

Welcome to the BPD Family!

Seeing things from the perspective of being a mom sure changes things doesn't it.  In wanting to be the best parent we can be we start looking at the examples in our lives.  Given that you were surrounded by what sounds like a lot of dysfunction it seems natural to me that you are having a hard time with what is healthy and what isn't.  Are you or have you ever considered getting some Therapy?  That way you have a professional that can help guide you through some of this.

I curious how did you discover BPD/NPD?  I'm on these boards because my significant other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) that just lied all the time, I couldn't understand it and just Googled "Chronic Lying" and up came BPD.  Have you done a lot of reading/research on the topic?  My first response when I learned about BPD was to hit my local library and read everything they had on the topic.  That gave me a good baseline understanding. 

We also have a lot of good tools and information here too.  I want to point out the box to the right -> each item is a link to more information you might want to check out the "Lessons" section when you get the chance.

Can you give us a couple of examples of when you've had a hard time deciphering between healthy and not healthy behaviors?  Maybe we can work through some of those with you.

I'm really glad you've found us and decided to jump in and post, it's always great to add a new voice to the group.

Take Care,
Panda39

[P.F.Change]

Hello, Heir2theThorn, I want to add my welcome.

I understand where you're coming from, as my FOO and much of our extended family has probable BPD or NPD or both. Being raised in that kind of environment gives a child a very different sense of what relationships and boundaries are supposed to look like. Many of us learn codependence because we weren't taught healthy boundaries skills. The good news is, we can heal and recover, and it's not too late to start learning new skills. The Survivor's Guide that Panda39 pointed you to is a good place to start.

I also understand how challenging it can be to parent children of your own when you realize the framework you've thought was normal is actually pretty skewed. It can feel downright scary. One of my therapists recommended I read Giving the Love that Heals by Hendrix & Hunt. Have you ever talked with a counselor before?

How much contact do you have with your family? Are there any skills you would like to work on, or specific behaviors you find difficult to deal with? I'm glad you joined. It does help to have support, and this has felt like a safe place for me, too. Looking forward to hearing more from you!

P.F.

[Heir2theThorn]

Thanks for the replies P.F.Change and Panda39.  To respond to some of your questions:

Most of the information I have on BPD and NPD has come either from this website, links I followed that originated here, and studying other people's posts.  Also a few books from the library; haven't read Walking on Eggshells yet.  I intend to.  Will also check out Giving the Love that Heals (thanks for the rec).

A couple of years ago I saw a therapist for marriage counseling for a few months, sometimes with my husband and sometimes alone.  I mentioned to the T that my mom had a bi-polar diagnosis (my siblings also thought this, but it now looks like my dad made it up).  From the way I had described my mom though, the T said several times that she sounded more "borderline" than "bi-polar", which led me to start researching BPD and I found this site.  Then I stumbled across NPD via a link.

Gosh I don't know where to start on "deciphering behaviors."  One general question would be just how much conflict is normal/healthy within a family?  What types of fighting between spouses are expected versus unhealthy (I think I have a handle on what's outright abusive), especially if children are present?  And at what point should my own discomfort with interactions with another person be a red flag versus something I should ignore in the spirit of being cooperative?  What's the difference between anxiety and healthy concern?  When a relative says they were abused, but what they say happened doesn't sound like abuse (even with a broad interpretation of the word), how should I interpret?

There are also a few specific incidents that I'm dying to get an outside interpretation for, but I'm not sure if I should post them... .is there a way to run them by someone in a private message first? (I am trying to re-connect with a T, but feel too embarrassed to bring these up out of the blue.)

[Panda39]

I wanted to share the circle of power and control, and it's counter part the circle of equality,  I found them helpful when I started dating my SO and I was trying to define or name his uBPDxw's behaviors towards him and his daughters.

I sort of had the opposite problem you're having I had a hard time recognizing the subtle (and not so subtle but foreign to me) forms of abuse that were going on between the girls and their mom.  Their mom is both overly indulgent and neglectful with her daughters and I found that very confusing and hard to reconcile at first.  It turns out she was exhibiting many of the behaviors on the wheel.  By the way the above wheel does seem to be geared towards women, but I can tell you there is also "Female Privilege" particularly in a custody fight. (but I digress  )

I was shocked by much of what was going on, confused by some things, but I did know something was wrong, I felt it but couldn't articulate those feelings, it wasn't until later that I had the words... .emotional abuse, neglect, coercion, parental alienation etc





Anyway these helped me I thought they might help give you a vocabulary or a point of reference too when you are trying to define a situation.  You might try listening to your "gut" in some of these situations too... .does it feel wrong? Then it might be and worth analyzing further or bouncing off of someone else (we're really good at that here  )

Panda39