I think her fear of abandonment made her walk away from something great

[Loveless2615]

I met someone a couple months ago. We hit it off immediately, from music to thoughts to bring hurt by people. We would say things like "we're in trouble aren't we?" in regards to our connection. We established that a real relationship was what we were both looking for, and began to open up to each other. She was on and off with one person for 6-7 years, been cheated on, put down and made to hate herself. I should add that she had a rocky family life growing up as well.

We live an hour apart, so we began seeing each other every weekend, and we talked every day. We became the people we tell everything to, the good and the bad. From the first time we met, sparks flew, I guess you could say. She began saying this like "you've saved me" and "you feel like home to me" and "you make my heart happy." She said I treated her better than anyone ever has. She also warned me there may be times where she won't be able to believe that I care about her this much, and may push me away. I did nothing but reassure her that nothing could scare me away and make me turn my back. I meant it, and I still mean it. She did have a few episodes, but would calm down and end up coming to me and spending time, or apologizing. I never got mad at her for it, just offered more reassurance. But it was clear in some of these instances that it was becoming a concern that she'll get hurt again, like she always does. One day was particularly bad, and so I told her that I loved her. I meant it, but I hadn't planned to spring that on her... I just felt like she needed to hear it to understand how much I do care. Soon after, she admitted she's wanted to tell me several times she loves me, but I assured her I understood why she can't yet. She never did say it, but we continued so see each other whenever possible and talk every day.

Well, two weeks ago, when I was dealing with some more loss in my life, I had been pretty down. I stupidly brought up her ex (via text) and said how mad I was that he could do the things he did to her. She told me to stop, and I got defensive, asking if she missed him. She started expressing concern that I was giving her too much, that she didn't deserve it. She's mentioned before how she's "trash" compared to what I could have, which is the farthest thing from the truth. I had been drinking and even more stupidly I said "why don't you just tell me to **** off like you should have at the beginning then. It's too late now, I'm invested in you." Well, she did. She said she couldn't force feelings into herself and that this can't work. She said she's so grateful she met me in the midst of figuring out her own life, but she can't be a good woman back to me right now. I can't accept any of that because for one, she expressed feelings to me all the time. She would often say there's so much she wants to do to prove how much she likes and appreciates me, but didn't know how. I told her it's okay and that I'm still not going anywhere, that I was her to stay.

Now, my problem is that I think she's forcing feelings OUT of herself to avoid getting hurt. Once again, I was an idiot and I psychotically pleaded with her to just not do this, and to talk to me. I know I should have stepped back and assessed things and been calm, but I've been extremely hurt before and it took a lot for me to be vulnerable again. I panicked. She blocked me on everything but Instagram, so I reached out the next morning asking if we could talk that day, and to not walk away from what we have. I now have no way to contact her. I mean, she promised me she wouldn't just up and leave. She gave me the link to her tumblr maybe a week or two before all of this, so I check it because I worry about how low she can get. And yes, I sometimes I hope I'll see something that indicates she'll come back. But a lot of what I've seen implies she misses her ex. How could you miss someone that constantly chose other girls over you? That made you hurt yourself and hate yourself? I can't understand it. I was the one who was good to her.

So, I wrote her a letter. It was delivered four days ago and I've heard nothing. I began by apologizing for my panicked behavior, but told her the letter was not meant to be about me. I continued to tell her how amazing she is (because she really is) and why I thought so. I told her she deserved something real and someone to care for her the way she's always cared for people who put her down. I then brought up a handful of memories and why I can't just forget about her, hoping she'd remember them too and how she feels for me. I ended by saying I'm still not turning my back on her, regardless if she doesn't want me. I said all I can do is wait and hope. I said most of all, I hoped she could find the person inside of her that knows how perfect she is and what she deserves.

Now, I know that her feelings for me and me expressing mine scared her. But she also came across as NEEDING reassurance, and I couldn't help but try to give that to her. I was scared that, if I didn't, she would have felt worthless even more and run away sooner. I also realize my error in pushing when the split happened. So, one question I have is, do you think she'll snap out of this and realize what we meant to each other? She came out of her other episodes and would come be with me, and tell me we were happiest only when we were together. Second, is there ANYTHING I can do to get through to her, or is time truly the only thing that has a chance of working? I feel like she's always wanted someone to fight for her, and that's what I want to do, but I don't want to push her away farther. I love this girl, and I can't just walk away knowing how great we could be together.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JWebb88]

I'm unsure if the person you care about is BPD or not, but if she is then writing her your letter probably did push her away. Over time BPDs view our ability to love them unconditionally as a weakness. I suggest reading the romantic relationships section under insights. There are numerous articles under that category that can help you better understand her behavior.

However, even if she doesn't have BPD, I imagine your letter overwhelmed her. She needs time to process your words as well as intent. As someone who is recently out of an emotionally abusive relationship, having another person come on so strongly would concern me. For example, my ex was just as amorous in the beginning of our relationship, something I consider a red flag now. Generally, "I love you's" should be saved for later on in a relationship since neither party truly knows the other person. In fact, it is generally six months before either person begins to fully act themselves in a relationship. This is because, before then, we are all on our best behavior around the person we like.

As much as you care for this girl remember, she has serious baggage. Before you she had a partner that once pursued her just as amorously as you did, only to become her abuser. That relationship deteriorated in various ways quickly. For instance, abusers isolate, gaslight, disregard boundaries to condition their partners, emotionally and, sometimes, physically abuse their partners. In between these periods of abuse there are idolization honeymoon phases where her ex was sweet, thoughtful and charming. However, something always triggers the abuser (be it her or a life event) and the cycle of abuse will continue.

Lastly, if she herself does have BPD then take everything she said to you with a grain of salt. Ex's can be demonized to new partners. This goes hand-in-hand with devaluing someone they cared about. Additionally, her behavior (if BPD) was probably also just as explosive and unbalanced as her previous boyfriends. Loving someone with this condition is not easy. It's oftentimes difficult since those with BPD have intense attachment, abandonment, and insecurity issues due to abuse. If I was offering this girl advice, I'd advise her to seek therapy before entering into another relationship. She needs time to understand herself, mentally heal and deal with any traumas inflicted from her previous relationship.

I suppose what you must now ask yourself is what kind of relationship do you want? If your answer is a healthy relationship with open communication then, perhaps, this one isn't for you. The fact she has completely shut down as well as blocked you out isn't a good sign. You both should still be in the honeymoon phase. These kinds of reactions so early are considered red flags. If you think she is worth it (which I'm sure you do) please, be wary. Often in BPD relationships, no matter how well you treat your partner, they will begin to devalue and treat you poorly. In contrast, if you both do manage to work things out and she never mistreats you then be patient whenever she has an anxiety attack, or any moment of distress. Such reactions will be because of PTSD thanks to her ex.

Best advice I can give is to leave this girl alone. Let her sort herself out. If she wants a relationship, she will reach out to you. I know it will be hard, but it is the best thing you can do for her. Also BPDs hardly respond to any sort of message or contact if you've upset them. When they want to talk, they'll make contact first. Either way, your only recourse is to try to heal from this experience. Try not to fall so hard and so fast in the future. This will help ensure you'll get to know your next partner better before giving your heart away too soon.

I hope I helped. Please, take of yourself. Whatever happens between you and this girl, I sincerely hope you find happiness. Good luck.

[Loveless2615]

She is diagnosed with BPD, yes. It came up early on. That's the thing, though, is she was very open with me about having issues, implying I would need patience. We also established we would take things slow but feelings would constantly take over. I understand it sound naive and dumb to tell her what I did so early on, but that day she was having a complete meltdown and I just admitted to it as a gesture so she could understand how important she is to me, when she felt like "trash." After that, I constantly told her I didn't want her to feel like she needed to label us or rush things. I always said I'd be right here no matter what, which is exactly what she wanted. That's what I don't get... all the things she posts and talks about, she's wanted that unconditional love. In the beginning she would always tell me she didn't want to scare me away and hoped I'd stick around even if I saw her in her lowest points. And I did. I was thanked profusely for that, multiple times. I truly thought I was going about these situations with the correct care and compassion. Honestly, we were very much ourselves within a month. She would show me her true colors often, and it just made me feel more for her, despite the negativity of a lot of it.

I know exactly what you mean about demonizing the ex. I once dated a girl who did it ALL the time. She turned out to be very narcissistic, played me for a fool, gaslighted me, stole from me and (pretty sure) faked a pregnancy. However, the girl I love now, we actually had a discussion a couple weeks back about how it was a good sign neither of us constantly bashed our exes, because that would be exactly as you said, a red flag.

I know what you're saying, but I've had weeks to think about this and I truly DO want this relationship with her. I feel that she deserves it, and I feel that I was a positive influence in her life. I was really actually very good about handling her needing/asking for space when things would come up. I'd back off, reassure her that I was there if she needed. Often, she would text me well after I went to bed saying "I'm sorry. I just need you here with me" or, as I mentioned, she would come to me. I think that was her realizing I was good for her. I just wish she'd realize it now. I understand and value your advice, and I'm sticking to it as much as it hurts. Even though I'm heartbroken, my main concern is her wellbeing and how she's doing. I've actually been through A LOT myself, and for the most part I consider myself pretty strong emotionally. But opening up to her and having her ripped out of my life really opened a lot of the old wounds. I just don't understand why unconditional love seems to be EXACTLY what she wants, yet now it makes me seem weak. Do you think she's gone forever?

[schwing]

Hi Loveless2615,



I'm going to try to relate some of the behaviors you described to what I understand about borderline personality disorder, and hopefully this might give you some ideas as how to best proceed if you choose (and have the opportunity) to re-engage with her.

She was on and off with one person for 6-7 years, been cheated on, put down and made to hate herself. I should add that she had a rocky family life growing up as well.

The 2nd criteria for the diagnosis of BPD is "(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."  

As I understand this criteria, it describes how the "splitting" behavior of people with BPD (pwBPD) will affect their relationships causing them to be unstable and intense.  Part of the reason why these relationships are unstable and intense is that they will distort their memories of these relationships and see them as "all good" (idealization) and "all bad" (devaluation).

So at the time that you initiated your relationship with your BPD loved one, you were split "all good"; you were idealized while her ex was split "all bad" (devalued).  Same deal with the family she grew up with.  This is to say, maybe they did all the things that she said they did. Or maybe while she was devaluing them, she felt as if they did all these things which could have been a distortion due to her disorder.

We became the people we tell everything to, the good and the bad. From the first time we met, sparks flew, I guess you could say. She began saying this like "you've saved me" and "you feel like home to me" and "you make my heart happy." She said I treated her better than anyone ever has.

This experience sounds very much like she was idealizing you which is a very positive intense time for everyone who has ever been in a relationship with someone with BPD.  Intense and positive for both the non(disordered) as well as the pwBPD.

The thing to keep in mind with pwBPD is that they will "alternate" their perception of their loved ones from idealization to devaluation.  Also people that they have once devalued, can be later idealized.

She also warned me there may be times where she won't be able to believe that I care about her this much, and may push me away. I did nothing but reassure her that nothing could scare me away and make me turn my back. I meant it, and I still mean it.

So your BPD loved one recognizes that she exhibits this pattern of behavior, even if she doesn't understand why she does this.  She warned you, that in time she *won't be able to believe* that you love her; this sounds like devaluation.  And it may be difficult to accept, but this behavior has nothing to do with what you do or do not do.  No matter what you do or do not do, this behavior still happens.

So even though you did nothing but reassure her that nothing could scare you away and make you turn your back.  She still got to a point that she could not believe you.

She did have a few episodes, but would calm down and end up coming to me and spending time, or apologizing. I never got mad at her for it, just offered more reassurance.

Within those few episodes, she *alternated.*  I can't tell you *why* they do this.  I have my guesses.  But just accept that they do do this and they cannot be persuaded into not doing it.  You cannot cure a personality disorder by convincing them.

But it was clear in some of these instances that it was becoming a concern that she'll get hurt again, like she always does.

This brings up another diagnostic criteria for the BPD diagnosis:  "(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. "

So pwBPD to make great efforts to avoid abandonment.  Both real and *imagined* abandonment.  So even if you have absolutely zero intentions of leaving your BPD loved one, they may still get to a point that their fear of *imagined* abandonment drives them to leave you.  You could be their emotional or literal prisoner, but still their disorder might cause them to believe that you still intend to abandon them.  And they will act on these disordered emotions.

I had been drinking and even more stupidly I said "why don't you just tell me to **** off like you should have at the beginning then. It's too late now, I'm invested in you." Well, she did. She said she couldn't force feelings into herself and that this can't work. She said she's so grateful she met me in the midst of figuring out her own life, but she can't be a good woman back to me right now.

I don't think she just suddenly thought you were going to leave after you asked her "why don't you just tell me to **** off like you should have... ."  I think her *imagined* fear of abandonment had been building up for some time, but your behavior never matched up with her emotions at least not until this instance.  Then she acted on it.

I can't accept any of that because for one, she expressed feelings to me all the time. She would often say there's so much she wants to do to prove how much she likes and appreciates me, but didn't know how. I told her it's okay and that I'm still not going anywhere, that I was her to stay.

This was true while she was idealizing you.  But she *alternated* and it seems to me that she is now devaluing you.  For non-disordered people, our attachments to other people are more stable and generally less intense (in comparison).  But for pwBPD, their attachments, or "interpersonal relationships" are "unstable" and "intense."

I know you wouldn't discount how you felt about her in the past even if you were to get angry with her in an episode.  But you do not exhibit "splitting" behavior (aka black and white thinking).  If she is a pwBPD, you need to consider that she does think this way.  And just because she idealized you once, doesn't mean she isn't devaluing you now.

In the same manner of thinking, just because she told you that her ex cheated on her in the past and put her down and made her hate herself, doesn't mean that she could now be seeing him in an idealized way. And this is probably why she got upset with you said those things about her ex that didn't match how she was feeling towards him.

She blocked me on everything but Instagram, so I reached out the next morning asking if we could talk that day, and to not walk away from what we have. I now have no way to contact her. I mean, she promised me she wouldn't just up and leave.

She can't promise that she won't just up and leave you anymore than she can promise that her feelings for you won't ever change.  Because for pwBPD their feelings change and they will always act on their feelings at that time.

How could you miss someone that constantly chose other girls over you? That made you hurt yourself and hate yourself? I can't understand it. I was the one who was good to her.

Do you know for a fact that her ex cheated on her?  Or are you going on what she told you he did to her?

I understand that you were good to her.  But her disorder made her feel like you were going to abandon her.  And in her mind, you were bad to her.  For all we know, she is telling someone else how *you* were bad to her.  And in her mind she's not lying.  Because how she feels, will distort what she remembers as it does with people who are disordered.

Now, I know that her feelings for me and me expressing mine scared her. But she also came across as NEEDING reassurance, and I couldn't help but try to give that to her. I was scared that, if I didn't, she would have felt worthless even more and run away sooner. I also realize my error in pushing when the split happened. So, one question I have is, do you think she'll snap out of this and realize what we meant to each other?

Maybe you're right.  Maybe she doesn't have this disorder.  But if she does have this disorder, these are probably not the reasons why she behaved the way she did.  She may alternate again and come back to you.  But then she might just alternate again.  

Second, is there ANYTHING I can do to get through to her, or is time truly the only thing that has a chance of working? I feel like she's always wanted someone to fight for her, and that's what I want to do, but I don't want to push her away farther. I love this girl, and I can't just walk away knowing how great we could be together.

You can try to talk to her.  But if she won't listen, if she doesn't want to hear from you, what can you do?

What difference is it if you want to fight for her, if she doesn't want to fight for you?  Ask yourself, is she behaving like someone who has mixed feelings about you, or someone who had one set of feelings at one time and now seems to have another set of feelings?


I hope some of this helps.

Best wishes,

Schwing