Do you have ideas for strengthening my emotional reserve?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Well, things between us had been going very well, even though we're in the midst of a building cycle--getting a big patio cover built and finishing off a basement project. Building projects are always a trigger for him.

This morning I tried several conversation starters, to which I got absolute silence. (I amused myself thinking that he reads all these Buddhist texts yet seems unable to even muster the most rudimentary politeness sometimes.) Then as I read the newsfeed on my tablet, a story so remarkable caused me to exclaim, "Wow!"

He asked me about it and proceeded to interrogate me, as though my opinion was somehow incorrect or stupid. (I'm thinking, "Jeez, I'm just reading the damn article--I didn't write it. And I'm not quite awake yet."

After a few rapid-fire questions, I quit answering, trying his tactic, and said, "It doesn't matter."

Then he got mad at me and said, "You never want to talk to me."

The irony got me and I let loose with "You're projecting. You've been giving me the silent treatment and you've a hostile attitude toward me."

"Well," he said, "there are a lot of things I don't like about you, but I don't attack you like you attack me." Then he reiterated "silent treatment" and "hostile attitude."

I said "I'm happy to talk with you now."

He said, "No, you're angry and you'll just attack me."

I said, "I'm not angry and I can switch gears really fast. I'm happy to talk with you now."

He slammed the door and stormed off to his studio.

Frankly, I wasn't mad. Irritated, yes, a bit. But more than that, he's been giving me one word answers to questions for a couple of days and spending lots of time alone in his studio. That's fine with me because no good comes from trying to speak with him when he's like that. I used to try and pry it out of him, but often it had nothing at all to do with me. So this time I just chalked it up to the stress of the building projects, which ironically, benefit him more than me.

Though I've been able to do my own thing and maintain my upbeat attitude, his grumpiness weighs upon me. I don't expect to change him and I know I'm not responsible for his moods, but he spreads his unpleasantness like a toxic cloud.

How can I strengthen myself and not breathe in the toxicity? Any suggestions? Thanks!

[Cat Familiar]

Well, things between us had been going very well, even though we're in the midst of a building cycle--getting a big patio cover built and finishing off a basement project. Building projects are always a trigger for him.

This morning I tried several conversation starters, to which I got absolute silence. (I amused myself thinking that he reads all these Buddhist texts yet seems unable to even muster the most rudimentary politeness sometimes.) Then as I read the newsfeed on my tablet, a story so remarkable caused me to exclaim, "Wow!"

He asked me about it and proceeded to interrogate me, as though my opinion was somehow incorrect or stupid. (I'm thinking, "Jeez, I'm just reading the damn article--I didn't write it. And I'm not quite awake yet."

After a few rapid-fire questions, I quit answering, trying his tactic, and said, "It doesn't matter."

Then he got mad at me and said, "You never want to talk to me."

The irony got me and I let loose with "You're projecting. You've been giving me the silent treatment and you've a hostile attitude toward me."

"Well," he said, "there are a lot of things I don't like about you, but I don't attack you like you attack me." Then he reiterated "silent treatment" and "hostile attitude."

I said "I'm happy to talk with you now."

He said, "No, you're angry and you'll just attack me."

I said, "I'm not angry and I can switch gears really fast. I'm happy to talk with you now."

He slammed the door and stormed off to his studio.

Frankly, I wasn't mad. Irritated, yes, a bit. But more than that, he's been giving me one word answers to questions for a couple of days and spending lots of time alone in his studio. That's fine with me because no good comes from trying to speak with him when he's like that. I used to try and pry it out of him, but often it had nothing at all to do with me. So this time I just chalked it up to the stress of the building projects, which ironically, benefit him more than me.

Though I've been able to do my own thing and maintain my upbeat attitude, his grumpiness weighs upon me. I don't expect to change him and I know I'm not responsible for his moods, but he spreads his unpleasantness like a toxic cloud.

How can I strengthen myself and not breathe in the toxicity? Any suggestions? Thanks!

[Grey Kitty]

How can I strengthen myself and not breathe in the toxicity? Any suggestions? Thanks!

Start by being gentle with yourself and accepting you have limitations and limits.

He asked me about it and proceeded to interrogate me, as though my opinion was somehow incorrect or stupid. (I'm thinking, "Jeez, I'm just reading the damn article--I didn't write it. And I'm not quite awake yet."

You aren't at your best at a time like that, and shouldn't expect that of yourself.

After a few rapid-fire questions, I quit answering, trying his tactic, and said, "It doesn't matter."

There's a saying--don't go down to their level--they will fight you there and beat you with experience. 

Considering that you were sleepy and not at your best, picking this idea--throw some of his own medicine back at him (knowing how much you hate it and wanting him to feel your pain and learn from it) seemed worth a try. I bet you can see how invalidating that statement is, right?

Anyhow... .my best advice is give yourself permission to remove yourself from his low-level, toxic, annoying crap if (when) it starts to get to you. You can do that even when it isn't anything like a rage or full dysregulation.

[formflier]

Instead of YOU making a judgment "that it doesn't matter"... .flip it... hand it back to him. 

"Ok... what is your point?  I want to make sure I understand you correctly."   And variations on that.

As to your question on the post about building a reserve.  I'll second "kind to yourself" as being the key.  Likely when you think you are being "selfish", you are probably doing it just right.



FF

[Sluggo]

There's a saying--don't go down to their level--they will fight you there and beat you with experience.

Dont wrestle with the pigs, they actually like being in the mud. 


As much as you can, take a mental and emotional vacation from it... .  exercise a bit more, talk more to friends and family, pray and  meditate, read a good book to get you thinking of other things.

[Notwendy]

Cat, maybe this will help you-

These types of conversations can wear you out emotionally. Here is the beginning of it:

Then he got mad at me and said, "You never want to talk to me."

The irony got me and I let loose with "You're projecting. You've been giving me the silent treatment and you've a hostile attitude toward me."

"Well," he said, "there are a lot of things I don't like about you, but I don't attack you like you attack me." Then he reiterated "silent treatment" and "hostile attitude."

I said "I'm happy to talk with you now."


Sometimes, we are so used to the kinds of exchanges we have that they become automatic. The "drama" between two people becomes habitual. For your H, it may be that this drama is a form of attention for him. He may not have a better way to get attention from you. He got your attention with his first statement, and then you added attention to the interchange- as it "got you".

I learned to look at this kind of thing as drama bait. The clue was my feelings. If my H  said something that I felt irritated by, I looked at it as drama bait. Not from his part but from me- something about my background made me vulnerable to this statement. I saw the drama between us as a sort of addiction. This statement would be like offering a drink to an alcoholic.

So I would stop myself and think " this is relationship alcohol". Some other people I know call it " an invitation to the crazy party" ( crazy stuff between two people in relationships) and you don't have to accept.

I learned to not use "you" statements and always "I " statements. So my response might be "Honey, I am sorry you feel that way". To say anything back like " you're projecting" is JADE and adds fuel to the drama. It's "picking up the drink" as your own feelings are stirred up at this point. If the conversation persists I would use another "I " statement to describe my feelings. I learned that if I was upset at all - to not have a conversation as this tells me I am not at my best to have a personal conversation like this. So I might repeat. " honey, I am sorry you feel this way. "I feel sad and need a moment to get a grip on myself before I can continue this conversation but I will later" and literally remove myself.  

It's hard to break this pattern but with practice, he will learn that these little digs don't get attention. A person will take even negative attention over no attention. So it is important to also give some positive attention along with ignoring the digs. You train horses so you know this- and humans also respond to attention.

I also have felt emotionally drained after these drama talks. I wrote on another thread that I didn't have a lot of experience with alcohol and can only recall one hangover the day after my 21 birthday. Yet after these types of conversations, I felt like that. I learned to recognize this drained feeling as an "emotional hangover" I had indulged in the "relationship drama drink".

I was shocked when our MT sent me to 12 step groups for co-dependency. There were no issues with alcohol or drugs between us. But the addiction model began to make sense in emotional drama and I find it helpful. I know some people may take issue with the terms. I don't think I have addiction issues- drugs, alcohol and other addictions haven't tempted me but the terms don't matter as much to me as that I was able to use the tools to help me. Having grown up in a dysfunctional FOO, I knew there were patterns I wanted to change.

[Cat Familiar]

Start by being gentle with yourself and accepting you have limitations and limits.

You aren't at your best at a time like that, and shouldn't expect that of yourself.

There's a saying--don't go down to their level--they will fight you there and beat you with experience. 

Considering that you were sleepy and not at your best, picking this idea--throw some of his own medicine back at him (knowing how much you hate it and wanting him to feel your pain and learn from it) seemed worth a try. I bet you can see how invalidating that statement is, right?

Anyhow... .my best advice is give yourself permission to remove yourself from his low-level, toxic, annoying crap if (when) it starts to get to you. You can do that even when it isn't anything like a rage or full dysregulation.

Thanks, Grey Kitty. Yes, I've got to be a bit kinder to myself. I tend to think that I can handle anything, but I don't recognize the level of emotional fatigue I experience daily from being in this relationship.

Also, there's still a stubborn part of me that likes to debate (high school debate team alumna) and sparring with a highly skilled lawyer is a challenge. However, as you say Grey Kitty, nothing good comes of this. And there's my pigheaded tendency to call it as I see it with regard to his "hostile attitude" and "silent treatment" and as Notwendy pointed out, this is JADEing.

Jeez, all the "fun" instinctual ways I respond when my thinking brain is not totally turned on are not only ineffective, but counterproductive.

And you're absolutely right about the "It doesn't matter" tactic. It f*n drives me up the wall when he uses that and similar wording on me. I was hoping that he'd have an awakening when he heard it from me, but the chances of that are slim.

I have been removing myself from his toxic crap, but now he's grousing that I don't want to be around him (and that's kinda true--particularly when he's being unpleasant.)

[Cat Familiar]

Instead of YOU making a judgment "that it doesn't matter"... .flip it... hand it back to him. 

"Ok... what is your point?  I want to make sure I understand you correctly."   And variations on that.

As to your question on the post about building a reserve.  I'll second "kind to yourself" as being the key.  Likely when you think you are being "selfish", you are probably doing it just right.



FF

Oh, I like that--asking questions. I'm going to do more of that. I remember someone telling me whoever asks the questions, controls the conversation.

I'll just put on my old reporter's hat. When I worked for a newspaper, I was very comfortable asking people questions and getting them to talk. I tend to be an introvert, so I'm more comfortable one-on-one than I am in a big social situation. Going to parties used to really intimidate me since I'm not good at "small talk" but then I figured out that I could just put on my reporter's hat and interview people. Then I felt relaxed. I'm gonna try that at home. Thanks, FF.

Yep, I need to take more time to be kind to myself. I get so lost in chores and fixing things that I forget to fix myself.

[Cat Familiar]

As much as you can, take a mental and emotional vacation from it... .  exercise a bit more, talk more to friends and family, pray and  meditate, read a good book to get you thinking of other things.

Good advice, Sluggo. I tend to be sort of obsessive when I'm trying to learn things. Learning how to live in peace with a pwBPD is essentially a total remodel of my persona, overwhelming at times since there's so much to learn, but everything I've incorporated has been useful in all my relationships.

But sometimes it's good to take a vacation from that focus. Thank you for saying that! Now that the rainy season has begun, I can't do all the outside projects that kept me busy and I'll have more opportunity to use the Pilates machine and stationary bike--moving meditation for me.

I realized how emotionally depleted I was a couple of weeks ago when I did some errands in our little town and had fabulous conversations with people in some of the stores I frequent. I do have a nice network of friends with whom I can be completely open and totally myself. It struck me as so peculiar that this openness and honesty is not available in my most intimate relationship. Well, it's good to be able to connect emotionally with other humans. Perhaps some day it might be available again with my husband. One can only hope... .

[Cat Familiar]

Cat, maybe this will help you-

These types of conversations can wear you out emotionally... .Sometimes, we are so used to the kinds of exchanges we have that they become automatic. The "drama" between two people becomes habitual. For your H, it may be that this drama is a form of attention for him. He may not have a better way to get attention from you. He got your attention with his first statement, and then you added attention to the interchange- as it "got you".

I learned to look at this kind of thing as drama bait. The clue was my feelings. If my H  said something that I felt irritated by, I looked at it as drama bait. Not from his part but from me- something about my background made me vulnerable to this statement. I saw the drama between us as a sort of addiction. This statement would be like offering a drink to an alcoholic.

So I would stop myself and think " this is relationship alcohol". Some other people I know call it " an invitation to the crazy party" ( crazy stuff between two people in relationships) and you don't have to accept.

That's a really good suggestion, Notwendy--looking at my own level of emotional arousal as a key to when to step back and disengage from the "crazy party" because it will only get crazier if I participate in it. And yes, you're right--this is a way for him to get attention, though it's negative attention. He can dump some of his BPD distress and if I get agitated, then he can feel he's not so alone for having those tumultuous feelings.

I like your idea of postponing the conversation when I'm not at my best. I will try that. In the past, my attitude was always, "let's get this over and done" and I'm now aware that's very counterproductive.

I learned to not use "you" statements and always "I " statements. So my response might be "Honey, I am sorry you feel that way". To say anything back like " you're projecting" is JADE and adds fuel to the drama. It's "picking up the drink" as your own feelings are stirred up at this point. If the conversation persists I would use another "I " statement to describe my feelings. I learned that if I was upset at all - to not have a conversation as this tells me I am not at my best to have a personal conversation like this. So I might repeat. " honey, I am sorry you feel this way. "I feel sad and need a moment to get a grip on myself before I can continue this conversation but I will later" and literally remove myself.  

It's hard to break this pattern but with practice, he will learn that these little digs don't get attention. A person will take even negative attention over no attention. So it is important to also give some positive attention along with ignoring the digs. You train horses so you know this- and humans also respond to attention.

I'm pretty good at using "I" statements when I'm not emotionally triggered. He's good at triggering me. Later, when things cool down, I've been telling him my triggers from my FOO. He's not a mean person, so I'm not giving him extra ammo against me, but it does help him understand that what he says might be upsetting to me. Also I come across most times as so cool and collected and quickly able to bounce back to "normal" that he feels "less than" because he cannot control his emotional reactions as well. (A real liability for a lawyer.) So I sort of "humanize" myself by sharing my weaknesses.

I also have felt emotionally drained after these drama talks. I wrote on another thread that I didn't have a lot of experience with alcohol and can only recall one hangover the day after my 21 birthday. Yet after these types of conversations, I felt like that. I learned to recognize this drained feeling as an "emotional hangover" I had indulged in the "relationship drama drink".

Yes, these drama talks induce a state that's exactly like a hangover. Not my favorite way of waking in the morning! I've had recent experience with both types of hangovers. Now that I'm leading such a healthy lifestyle, I've discovered that two drinks can result in a nasty hangover--and damn, those margaritas tasted so good.

[Notwendy]

Yep, "clean eating" can do that, and I've been a healthy eater. One occasional glass of wine with dinner is about all I can handle. In college, the 21th birthday ritual was to go out and order mixed drinks. Oh that next morning was something I will remember. I haven't done that again to that extent, but a hard liquor drink does not feel good, so I've resolved to the occasional glass of wine as it.

Margaritas do taste good in the moment but yuk later, and the same with being triggered and emotionally wired. I can see how they really draw us in in the moment.

I later learned to recognize when I am triggered and see it as an opportunity to learn to work on how I reacted to them. BPD mom also can trigger me. One day, I noticed she was saying things I would have formerly reacted to but I didn't. It was amazing when that happens. You can do it! I won't say it never happens, but I recognize them now and have some control over how I react.

The term "emotional hangover" didn't really resonate with me, and I did have some "what am I doing here" listening to serious former drinkers speak, but once I made the connection- the way I feel after I have emotionally been triggered and joined the drama- with that day after 21 birthday feeling, I made a point to work at not getting hooked in, the same way I made the decision to avoid mixed drinks. They both feel bad afterwards.

[Cat Familiar]

Margaritas do taste good in the moment but yuk later, and the same with being triggered and emotionally wired. I can see how they really draw us in in the moment.

I later learned to recognize when I am triggered and see it as an opportunity to learn to work on how I reacted to them. BPD mom also can trigger me. One day, I noticed she was saying things I would have formerly reacted to but I didn't. It was amazing when that happens. You can do it! I won't say it never happens, but I recognize them now and have some control over how I react.

Yes, that's a good analogy, Notwendy. I know certain foods make me feel yucky and therefore I'm not tempted to eat them. Ice cream is one of those "trigger foods" and though I love how it tastes, the aftermath is not pleasant because I almost always get an allergic response. So when I have the opportunity to eat it, I decline about 90% of the time. Every now and then I can indulge and get away with it, but the odds are stacked against me.

Same with getting into the BPD drama. As Grey Kitty says, "No good comes of this." But due to my pugnacious tendencies, after a long time of ignoring slights, criticisms, negativity, every now and then I feel like I want to clear the air and go mano-a-mano verbally, and like Grey Kitty says, "No good comes of this."

Sometimes, in that rare 10%, I can actually get my communication heard and understood, but the stars have to all align up and the chances of that happening are very minute. Usually the end result is adding more baggage to the communication barrier that already exists. I'm not a gambler, but sometimes I'm just in the F* it mood and I want to freely express myself.

I'm learning that the desire to freely say what's on my mind is about as unhelpful as shouting in English to someone who speaks Portuguese, in an effort to be understood. Perhaps they might understand a word or two, but increasing the volume does not increase the understood meaning. So I now realize that if I want to speak freely, I've got to get really creative with my wording and not deviate from using the rules that work with pwBPD. I have found times where I can successfully and artfully use the concepts in my own natural language.

Part of the problem in communicating with a lawyer, who is so highly attuned to language, is that he picks up rote patterns, such as SET. I know there's a way to incorporate that in a more natural style so that my wording isn't stilted, but I'm not there yet, at least on a regular basis.

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks to everyone about the self care messages. I'm not a woman who does "pampering" things like nails and hair stuff, but I do love massages and get one every two weeks.

Yesterday I decided to give myself free rein in that I would do whatever I felt like doing, whether or not it was on my list of "to dos". So I found myself bringing in loads of firewood and stacking it near the house.

It kinda surprised me as I was unloading the firewood from the ATV's wagon that my husband just walked past and didn't offer to help. On the other hand, it was OK since he was doing pool maintenance, one of his few chosen tasks. And too, I'm really good at stacking wood--it's like a 3D puzzle to me and he's really bad at it, so I was happy to do it by myself.

Then I did some seasonal maintenance on our drinking water system. I've tried time and time again to teach him how to do that, but he's so impatient that he typically screws it up and it's not worth the bother.

So I had a very pleasant day of doing useful tasks that made me feel good and they were even things on my list!

[formflier]

Ahh... stacking firewood.  Fond memories.  Especially because I had bunches of little stackers that would help. 

We had the "big stash" down in the barn.  Essentially what we thought would last all winter.  Then we had "week or two" stash that was just outside the exterior door closest to the wood stove.

Then... .a day or two's worth was inside close to the stove.

Regular massages and chiropractic, keep many of my physical issues manageable.  When I do lots of light exercises at home (that physical therapists taught me)... .things are even better.

I don't really consider the barbershop "pampering", but I do set aside a couple hours when I plan to go, because the conversation is always good.  Kinda odd that I'm disappointed when I show up and can get right in the chair for a cut... .less talking.


FF

[Grey Kitty]

And you're absolutely right about the "It doesn't matter" tactic. It f*n drives me up the wall when he uses that and similar wording on me.

Yeah, that is your trigger. Perhaps it would help to mentally translate it to what it really means... .here's my guess:

CF's H sez: "It doesn't matter"
CF's H means: "You've just shown me how I was being a complete d*ck about something, but I'm not going to acknowledge it... .and I know that saying this will piss the f*ck out of you, which will distract me from feeling that bad about it... ."

You know him better than I do... .make your own translation... .and perhaps next time you hear it, you won't be as triggered, and will be able to choose an action you feel better about.

[Cat Familiar]

Yeah, that is your trigger. Perhaps it would help to mentally translate it to what it really means... .here's my guess:

CF's H sez: "It doesn't matter"
CF's H means: "You've just shown me how I was being a complete d*ck about something, but I'm not going to acknowledge it... .and I know that saying this will piss the f*ck out of you, which will distract me from feeling that bad about it... ."

I really like this Grey Kitty! Thanks!

Indeed, the "doesn't matter" and "whatever" are triggers for me and I've told him so in the past.   No wonder he uses them so effectively at times. 

The irony astounds me sometimes with pwBPD. I get accused of "not participating in a conversation" when I'm attentively listening; "not caring" about his feelings when I've spent countless hours trying to perfect my communication techniques so that I don't invalidate him; "not listening" when I don't understand what he's saying and ask for clarification.   

Today, as I was leaving the room, he called out something I suspect was accusatory or insulting, and I just said, "Um hmmm," in agreement. I didn't even ask what that was about and since I was already in another part of the house, I didn't bother trying to find out.

This was new to me because in the past, I would always have wanted to know exactly what he said. Today I thought "it really doesn't matter because it's just a transitory feeling anyway and I'm not going to give it any weight." That was really freeing.

And he just moved on too and never circled around to that comment later.