I don't belong to the Improving board, but I feel a strong urge write something

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I don't belong to the Improving board, but I feel a strong urge for the last few days to write something.

It's not my place, I know, and I don't want to offend anybody, and was intending to keep my mouth (fingers) shut, but since this is a public forum, I'm just gonna say it.

I've been reading this "Improving board" from time to time. I sympathize with all of you and see that you're kind, empathetic, good people who love their partners dearly and are doing everything in your power to keep your r/s and marriages stable as much it is possible, protect your children, understand your SO, validate etc.

But what seems to me (as an outsider) tragic... .for example, DB is thinking about going to therapy.  HE is going to therapy. HE who has done nothing wrong (except breaking some stupid doll- after he heard his wife wants a divorce or open marriage!). He thinks he is the problem, he needs to regulate himself more, disciplines his temper, work on himself, better himself, ask for help, go to therapy.

Meanwhile, he says his wife is undiagnosed. So, I guess, she isn't getting any help? Correct me if I wrong.

Other example- a member whose husband has tantrum rages. She literally asked should she have validated her husband rage. ("Maybe I should have also validated his rage"- something like that).

Please please please don't be mad at me but all this talk about validation (of invalid- rage, for goodness sake!), taking all the blame on yourself, correcting yourself while the problem lies outside... .to me it sounds equally insane as some BPD behaviour, if not worse (since you don't have mental illness). I'm coming from the good and caring place as I'm typing this, I would say this exact words to my parent/sibling/best friend if they were in situation as this.

I know many of you have children and have been married for many years and I can understand that sometimes you have to make compromise for the greater good, sacrifice, etc., but some sacrifices are simply futile. Like a Sisyphis rolling a rock... .

It looks to me you're denying so much of yourself, your life, your precious years on this planet, your peace of mind, clarity and joy, working so hard, being so dedicated, giving you 120%... .to someone who simply doesn't have an ability to accept it or contain for the longer period of time.

I'll most likely regret posting this, since it's really not my place to go there and be so blunt. But trust me, I wouldn't bother if I didn't have sympathy for you and empathize on a human level with my fellow men. Please, don't take offense or hold a grugde. I won't be writing things like this anymore, this was my first and only post on this matter.

[itgetsbetter94]

I don't belong to the Improving board, but I feel a strong urge for the last few days to write something.

It's not my place, I know, and I don't want to offend anybody, and was intending to keep my mouth (fingers) shut, but since this is a public forum, I'm just gonna say it.

I've been reading this "Improving board" from time to time. I sympathize with all of you and see that you're kind, empathetic, good people who love their partners dearly and are doing everything in your power to keep your r/s and marriages stable as much it is possible, protect your children, understand your SO, validate etc.

But what seems to me (as an outsider) tragic... .for example, DB is thinking about going to therapy.  HE is going to therapy. HE who has done nothing wrong (except breaking some stupid doll- after he heard his wife wants a divorce or open marriage!). He thinks he is the problem, he needs to regulate himself more, disciplines his temper, work on himself, better himself, ask for help, go to therapy.

Meanwhile, he says his wife is undiagnosed. So, I guess, she isn't getting any help? Correct me if I wrong.

Other example- a member whose husband has tantrum rages. She literally asked should she have validated her husband rage. ("Maybe I should have also validated his rage"- something like that).

Please please please don't be mad at me but all this talk about validation (of invalid- rage, for goodness sake!), taking all the blame on yourself, correcting yourself while the problem lies outside... .to me it sounds equally insane as some BPD behaviour, if not worse (since you don't have mental illness). I'm coming from the good and caring place as I'm typing this, I would say this exact words to my parent/sibling/best friend if they were in situation as this.

I know many of you have children and have been married for many years and I can understand that sometimes you have to make compromise for the greater good, sacrifice, etc., but some sacrifices are simply futile. Like a Sisyphis rolling a rock... .

It looks to me you're denying so much of yourself, your life, your precious years on this planet, your peace of mind, clarity and joy, working so hard, being so dedicated, giving you 120%... .to someone who simply doesn't have an ability to accept it or contain for the longer period of time.

I'll most likely regret posting this, since it's really not my place to go there and be so blunt. But trust me, I wouldn't bother if I didn't have sympathy for you and empathize on a human level with my fellow men. Please, don't take offense or hold a grugde. I won't be writing things like this anymore, this was my first and only post on this matter.

[Skip]

I learned to do all these things, and I have the best relationship I ever had in my life. I learned them to try to hold a "BPD" relationship together, that is long gone, but these skills have made a huge difference in the quality of my life and the people around me.

But what seems to me (as an outsider) tragic... .for example, DB is thinking about going to therapy.  HE is going to therapy. HE who has done nothing wrong (except breaking some stupid doll- after he heard his wife wants a divorce or open marriage!). He thinks he is the problem, he needs to regulate himself more, disciplines his temper, work on himself, better himself, ask for help, go to therapy.

Do people go to therapy because they did something wrong? Or because they are facing crisis in their life?

[pearlsw]

Oh hey,   what an interesting perspective. I am usually on the Improving board because I really like the mindset there. (Just wanted to put a toe in here and see what's up and your title caught my eye!) It feels like a second home to me at times since I am so isolated living overseas. To me, what I see, is it is about making an effort to make life better - and that is always good in my book! I think there is a bit of misread in that folks there see themselves "as the problem". I think rather it is more an attitude, at least on my part, that my partner has an illness and I'd like to find a way to interact with the health issue from the best possible place I can on any give day and in any given situation - and since it is complex it takes some work and effort and a lot of rethinking to make peace with it all. It is not about him being horrible and me being awesome, though at times he does have horrible behavior... .and I do kinda like myself.  I see myself as someone doing the best I can in life with what I have and hoping to always do better. For me this is just a nice extension of other work I've done in life in terms of mindfulness and a nice space to have support and sometimes workshop a problem or two with understanding folks since most people don't understand these issues who haven't read a lot about them or experienced them in my offline life.

I'm not mad at you. But I do think that it makes a HUGE difference to see if one is in any way contributing to the problem. It is natural, since we are part of the relationships, that we do contribute to the problems in the relationship. I had to let go of my ego and admit, yep, I was contributing. It wasn't intentional, but there it was! That didn't make me horrible, just majorly confused. I love that this site has helped me clear up a lot of my confusion - no matter what happens with my relationship ultimately.

My h isn't always dysregulating and while that is extreme and difficult, at the other times I can add a lot to the relationship by the simple recognition that he is emotionally sensitive and make some adjustments around this. If I just treated him like he has no valid feelings because I don't personally share his feelings and do not feel my feelings in the same way I'd have a heck of a lot more problems - that is for sure! And to be honest, as nice and compassionate as I thought I was... .and am... .I kinda did that - invalidate him. Yikes! But I don't want to do that so I now have great tools to help us both. I don't need to have any ego about that. I don't need to put blame on him. I just care about a better outcome - the chance for one.

I invite you to come hang out more on Improving and see what it's about. In mindfulness practice there is a notion of leaning into your resistances, to areas of your life where you feel some strong sense of resistance and seeing if there is something more there - something about yourself that you actually need to face. I have a feeling that if you leaned in to this a bit you might find that it actually opens up your thinking and understanding and compassion in some way. I had a friend who eventually started his own zen center and he did this - leaned into his resistances, even the smallest ones like just trying to eat foods he had resistances to to explore and try to change his own mindset. Your mind is powerful... .it is more powerful when it stays open!

[happendtome]

itgetsbetter94, i understand what you are writing, but you cant help people who dont want help. I have learned this, hard way, and im not trying anymore. If someone wants life that is full of drama... .well, thats their choice.
If they think that they are happy... .well, let them be... .

[Skip]

itgetsbetter94, happendtome, this is an advanced board and we want to hold everyone to that who posts here.    One thing that is important in a support group is to support people who are suffering, just as you are suffering.

You both were recently spurned by a person you suspect had BPD or BPD traits and you are very down on this experience - and rightfully so. itgetsbetter94, there are aspects of your experience that are so raw, you are not even ready to talk about it yet.  There is a lot of hurt there. I was here with that hurt, myself.

Being hurt doesn't make us smarter, wiser, more informed. It makes us hurt, angry, depressed, and drives feelings of hopelessness. At times, as a community, we have had adult children "judge" the mothers that are here helping their BPD child, because their hurt for their own situation is  projected on to others. We have had "leavers" struggle with "partners" as they project their on subconscious regret that they didn't have the skills to manage their relationship when it would have mattered.

But, as a group, we rise above as participants and the newer members listen to the perspectives of the mentors that have traveled these same paths, and we all move forward.

But what seems to me (as an outsider) tragic... .

And outsiders can look at your circumstance and easily judge... .but we don't. Because we are not outsiders. We understand what others are going through - mothers with difficult children, husbands with difficult wives, children with careless parents, lovers left by side of the road, co-parents and war.

And we help each other pursue recovery paths. We know that these situations are very complicated - especially when family are involved. And sometimes that's a mother fighting all odds to save a child. And sometimes that is a mother letting go.

We understand and support all.

[itgetsbetter94]

Skip, I also understand (trust me- I do!). I've seen what a BPD can do to the family. I had a first hand experience. I empathize with my ex's family 100% (and with any other such family), I soothed his mother, encouraged her when she broke down and told me all the things they experienced during the course of his illness. My heart was with her. My heart is with everyone on this board.

I don't think my pain makes me "smarter, wiser, more informed". It does make me hurt, but also, as my therapist said "this is a school of life", and after school you do learn something after all.

pearlsw, thank you for taking time and your insight! We've never "met" here, but you're one of my favorite members on board.

[pearlsw]

Hi again itgetsbetter94   , What a sweetie you are!   Thanks and good luck on your journey! Hope to cross paths again.

[Meili]

as my therapist said "this is a school of life", and after school you do learn something after all.

  itgetsbetter94, I totally agree with this. I have learned a great number of things since I landed here. Some of those include learning better communication skills that allowed me to start to salvage my relationship with my uBPDexgf. We went from NC to talking to spending a weekend together camping to planning a possible future together because of the things that I learned.

However, what is more important that I learned were things about myself, how I acted, why I made the choices that I made, and what I actually want the story of my life to tell. As it turned out, what I wanted was not my x. It wasn't the disorder however, it was the person.

Now, it is true that we cannot separate the disorder from the person for they are one in the same, but managing my role in our relationship was no longer the issue. What I wanted from life just didn't mesh with who she was. Things like I want to travel extensively and she wants to start a business that will require her to stay in one place. She likes where we live, I hate it and want to move.

Each of us is different and unique. We are all on different paths and journeys. Had I been able to reconcile the differences between my x and me, I would have continued to work on the relationship because intense relationship can work. I've watched members go from the Saving board to Improving and onto a happier life with their SO. Just because mine didn't work out doesn't mean that others won't. But, I had to learn to forgive, not judge, and let go of my hurt and anger to see such things. Please don't take that to mean that I'm suggestion that you are the same as me. I'm only speaking to my own experiences.

[DaddyBear77]

The lessons I learn from “staying” will help me no matter what I ultimately decide.

I am absolutely thrilled to have the chance to start therapy again. As you said, every day we’re alive is another day to learn. We can chose to open ourselves up to those lessons and decide each day which path to take, or we can ignore the lessons and keep going blindly in the same direction.

This forum serves as a group study session in the school of life. Each of us lives our life, and then we bring those life lessons here to share with others.

I hope my desire to stay and work on myself and my relationship will offer something to you that you can use in a future relationship. None of us will ever be perfect, but the skills here help us be a better version of ourselves.

I will also say that the lessons ive learned from people who decided NOT to stay are very valuable to me. I know there are things that exist beyond the relationship world I live in now. If I ever decide to move on, I know from you and many others here that something better is more than possible.

So, sincerely, thank you for this post. I look forward to learning more from you and everyone else here.

[MeandThee29]

I agree.

I learned in therapy that I have to live in and accept the present. I spent way too much time in the past, trying to analyze how I could have made it different. Nope. I had to learn to the accept the past as it was. There are things I could have handled differently, but the reality is that my pwBPD put us on a downward spiral. Ultimately it would have ended this way. The clinical psychologist predicted all of this more than two years ago, and here we are. So here I am, separated working on my depression and codependency. My psBPD refuses therapy and choses to blame me and live a life of isolation where he lives. Reality! I really can't project anything beyond that.

[babyducks]

Hi itgetsbetter94

It looks to me you're denying so much of yourself, your life, your precious years on this planet, your peace of mind, clarity and joy, working so hard, being so dedicated, giving you 120%... .to someone who simply doesn't have an ability to accept it or contain for the longer period of time.

I'll most likely regret posting this, since it's really not my place to go there and be so blunt. But trust me, I wouldn't bother if I didn't have sympathy for you and empathize on a human level with my fellow men. Please, don't take offense or hold a grudge. I won't be writing things like this anymore, this was my first and only post on this matter.

I am glad you took the risk to post this.   It helped me to think about what I got, now almost 2 years later, out of my relationship.   

Quite honestly, itgetsbetter,  my relationship with my Ex, was literally the best thing that has happened to me in a long time.    Now, don't get me wrong, it was also the worst thing that's happened to me in a long time too.   

It's funny when the best of times are also the worst of times.     It's hard to hold two opposing trains of thought in my head at the same time.

I came out of my relationship pretty banged up but for the first time, possibly in my life, committed to making things better for me.   I came out of the relationship a much better person than I went into it, not withstanding that the relationship failed.    I came out of the relationship ready to share myself with people.    The good and the bad.     I learned, and yeah I know this sounds weird, to love myself because I am pretty dang wonderful at times.

In a way the relationship, while dysfunctional, rejuvenated me.    I was really just treading water,  going nowhere until I met my Ex.    She provided huge motivation for me to make changes and try new things.    Granted sometimes that motivation was not so very positive but ya know what,   I am okay with that.

I noticed you said something about taking all the blame.   That's an interesting perspective.    I see things differently.    I know from personal experience that a lot of blame and shame flew around like mud in my relationship.     Did I do things perfectly?    Naaah.   Did I do the best I could?  You betcha.    and what I found at the end of my relationship was not some one who I could share my life with regardless of how I attempted too; but that the best I had to offer in a relationship was pretty darn wonderful.   Who knew.

'ducks

[itgetsbetter94]

Thank you all for different perspectives and food for though... .
I appreciate that you took the time and explained your point of view.

I wish all of you all the best, whether you decided to stay or go seperate ways.