unusual question perhaps

[xian398]

I am trying to leave my partner - this decision wasn't easy to make, but the circumstances are now extreme.

How can i make them want to leave me to stop the carnage - because i want to just "play dead" like i'm being attacked daily and can't hold it off.

I can't control her in any way, she has no regard for my health, safety or well being. its that bad, not responsive to ANY boundaries - met with threats and ridiculous sexual accusations.

Open to serious and creative suggestions - desperate.

[Turkish]

It sounds like you live together; and if so,  you breaking up or asking her to leave may result in abuse.  Do you feel safe?

[xian398]

It sounds like you live together; and if so,  you breaking up or asking her to leave may result in abuse.  Do you feel safe?

thanks for your response.

i have separated nearly 2 years ago. i cant get the madness to end

[hope2727]

Can  you give us more details? More information would help us understand better.

[xian398]

Can  you give us more details? More information would help us understand better.

sorry, im not sure how much i am supposed to say i placed like this. I don't want to say more than i am supposed to :P i dont want to drag her through the mud here but the truth is rather painful. She suffers PTSD, fibro, and has a very broken past, married over a decade. I have sympathy for people like this, however my cup is now empty and if I can't redirect her anger elsewhere, at every contact im in harms way. Do i love her? Yes. Im sorry but after much contemplation, enough is enough.

near 2 years ago at the height of her escalation, i left my home and now live elsewhere. Her verbal, psychological, and emotional abuse was so severe, i warned her that i would have to leave i she continued. Late at night when she was pre-occupied (I had already been planning my escape with everything strategically placed) I managed to fit everything I owned into my car and took off. To this day she doesn't realise what she has done wrong, and thinks I have over-reacted, despite the obviousness of her behaviour. Thinks i am a narcissist.

There have been a few situations where i was physically in life threatening danger. But most of the time any contact at all puts me in harms way.

I still see her in real life at times, couple times a week at the moment while help her move house - she needs help, and I can't just leave her to her own devices. Once moved, she will be self sufficient. I hate going there and I want to run away screaming as soon as i set foot in the door, but she needs help.

At every phone call and SMS, i am on high alert - not thinking about what i want to say. Instead from the moment i answer the phone, i am using BPD techniques to keep things on an even keel. But usually i just sit there playing solitare for much of the time while she talks for hours complaining about me and everyone who has let her down. Eventually she wears herself out and cant stand my silence, then i get off the phone. i wouldn't dare speak my mind or suggest a fault on her behalf, all she wants to hear is me agree with her about my issues, and admit to things iv done wrong in the marriage. Many of which i didn't do, or did but not to the degree she describes.

Ie a near daily example
"you have been a terrible husband", to which i would say
"you are right, iv havn't been a good husband, you deserve better" - she will say
"yeh! you really have been and i do deserve better! You have been a #$%#@$% $%$ "

anything less than this will result in fury and add more time to the phone call where i bear the brunt of her scorn. Afterwards i feel dead inside and exhausted.

Usually she is furious that i'm not living with her, always with the "abandonment" line, which i understand is at the heart of the matter.

I think i have done well to cope this long just taking all the heat and bearing both our responsibilities of problems in the relationship (yes i know it aint healthy to do that) but  i don't know any other way to escape the pain of her relentless scorn. She has no self awareness, she flips from cool to burning hot in seconds. She can see that I am broken but will not ease up or go easier.

while i do everything to make her life easier, and show her that i care in ways i know how, it doesn't count towards much while we are separated. For example buying her groceries, paying rent, arranging things for her, driving her places.

She might mean well, but all she wants to do is project her hurt onto me and run me down, its all justified to her somehow. I have told her that i can't cope - but she doesn't seem to hear it.

All i want to do is make her not want to be with me - to me the idea of that will take the heat off and give me a slow but permanent exit.

Im sure in what iv said, you will notice that I am probably doing things which are not helpful to someone with BPD. I will be frank, i simply can't do any better, im dead inside and fresh out of sympathy. It makes me feel guilty, and ashamed, but i have to tap out now before i lose my mind.

I just want her to detach from me, but i don't know how to make that happen. What can I do to make her detach, and lower her weapons, and start to heal? because its clear to me any anyone watching this bloodbath that we should not be in touch with eachother

[babyducks]

Hi xian398,

Thanks for filling in the details.    That helps.    I can see that you care deeply for her.    That you are concerned for her well being.    I can also see that you want the pain and suffering and conflict to end.

When we are in this much conflict, this much discomfort, we want it to end, completely and immediately.    Truthfully it doesn't usually turn off as fast as we want it too.    It took us some time to get embroiled as deeply as we are in these situations and it takes some time to bring them to conclusion.

In other words, it took a while to get into this hole,  it will take a while to climb out.   The good news is you are already started.

I suggest you start to focus on taking care of you.   What's best for you.    how to recharge your batteries.   I've been where you are, depleted from the energy and effort I put into someone else.    I noticed this in what you wrote:

But usually i just sit there playing solitare for much of the time while she talks for hours complaining about me and everyone who has let her down. Eventually she wears herself out and cant stand my silence, then i get off the phone. i wouldn't dare speak my mind or suggest a fault on her behalf, all she wants to hear is me agree with her about my issues,

my second suggestion would be to start to limit these phone calls and exchanges.   Verbal abuse is never okay.   being on the receiving end of this abuse is one of the things that is draining you.   

find a safe, compassionate and calm way to exit these conversations.     I will tell you what I learned here from others.   Great wisdom through painful experience.    She will not willing leave these conversations.   She is getting something out of them.    She is getting a place to dump all her painful and difficult thoughts and emotions.   You will need to be the one to find a way to stop the bleeding (see the box on the right  |--->

If the phone call normally lasts an hour, after 30 minutes or 3 games of solitaire,  say "you know we've discussed all this before and I really need a good nights sleep tonight,  I am going to say good bye and I will talk to you tomorrow."

She's not going to like that.    You will need to hold firm.   One of the things that's keeping her involved and invested in the relationship is being able to project, or off load all her negative painful emotions onto you.    You should consider starting to whittle that down.   Allowing her to rage at you is not doing either one of you any good. It's not healthy for her either.   Does that make sense?

I also noticed this in what you wrote:

There have been a few situations where i was physically in life threatening danger. But most of the time any contact at all puts me in harms way.

Are you safe now?    What kind of support system do you have around you?   Are there close friends who you can share your situation with?    People at work you can confide in at a deeper level?   Family?   Are you a member of a church or faith community where you could talk to the spiritual leader?   Is therapy a possibility?    What you are going through is very difficult.   All the support you can bring to your side will help.   Many locations have toll free numbers or hot line numbers who will help connect you will professionals who have dealt with this situation before.   Often you can speak with anonymously, just like you are here.   The more you can talk about this the more it will help.   

Please keep posting here.    Just the act of writing out our thoughts can help relieve some of the stress, and give us more clarity.    Let us know how you are doing.     Many members have been in where you are.   

'ducks

[hope2727]

Ok so if you are determined for it to be done here are my suggestions.

1) Get a QUALIFIED therapist. Preferably someone familiar with BPD and the family dynamic of living with someone with BPD. Go regularly and be brutally honest. If you can't find that, find someone who works with trauma and abuse victims.

This will help you are seriously tick her off. Be prepared for things to get worse before they get better.

2) Read everything on the following website and review applicable pages regularly.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/rage.html
www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/leaving.html

This site was brought to my attention by the psychologist I saw and is used in our local domestic abuse program. It is well researched and science based and its opening page recognizes its own gender bias. Please just switch the pronouns in your head.

Another site I was directed to was Out of the Fog. It talks a lot about boundaries and managing relationships with these dynamics. My psychologist was a wealth of good resources like these and I use them now in my university courses. They are evidence based and well researched. Out of the Fog talks a lot about letting people deal with their problems themselves. I think the time has come for you to do that. That may mean accepting that you cannot ever find a way to make her understand that you care etc. You cannot logic a broken brain my psychologist used to tell me. She was right. I am taking a Masters Degree in Psychology at the moment and we discuss that all the time. People see the world from their own level of perception and her's is likely very different from yours and may never change. You certainly won't change it.

3) Learn everything you can about boundaries. They will save you and totally infuriate her. There are lessons on boundaries here on this site. She won't like it but it will protect and rebuild you. Google extinction burst and expect one. Practice practice practice. Start small and work up. My first one was I will not take calls after 9PM. I shut off the phone and went to bed. Woke up to something like 75 texts and voice mails. None of which were relevant. Did not respond to any. Boundary met... .by me. Boundaries are about what we will do or tolerate, not what others will do or not do.

4) Reduce contact to a minimum. You can do this gradually or quick but you need to do it. Respond by email if at all possible. Even is she texts wait several hours and email back. First it promotes calm and reflection on your part (does this need a response, what response, how limited can I make it?) It also leave a paper trail for any further legal or evidence production. Plus it keeps you from being gaslit. (You can google that term too if you are unfamiliar.) I have two friends who help me draft responses. Sometimes they are 24 hours later which gives me time to calm down and decide what really needs response and what is just dripping venom. Most of time its all venom and drivel and self pity from my person so I just ignore and stick to the facts.

5) Learn The BIFF response. Brief Informative Friendly Firm - there is lots of info out there on it. Practice practice practice. Be Boring. She likes the energy of the drama. Stop giving it to her. She will get bored and like engaging you less. Think of it as weaning her off your energy and replenishing yourself instead. Your pitcher of emotional health is empty and hers has a hole in the bottom so you will never be able to fill it and she can only fix the hole herself.

6) Build relationships with others. You need a new support system. She won't like it and you will gain strength. Find a support group for family members that meets weekly, join a running club, take a cooking class, take music lessons, join a choir, take a course, whatever just get out and around other people and away from her. Don't bring her with you just go be around new people and refill your energy in reciprocal environments. This will not make her happy and you can expect an extinct burst and if your goal is to make her want to leave you it will slowly make her less served by your relationship. As you don't meet her needs she will look elsewhere and lose interest in you.

Basically focus on yourself, dry up as a source for her, rebuild a new life that she isn't part of and start refilling yourself with positive experiences.

Now this is only if you seriously want her to leave you. Just imagine what its she wants to get from you and don't provide it anymore. She will like you less and less and start meeting her needs in different ways.

I seriously encourage you to keep reading and keep posting and take gentle care of yourself.

[xian398]

Hi xian398,

Thanks for filling in the details.    That helps.    I can see that you care deeply for her.    That you are concerned for her well being.    I can also see that you want the pain and suffering and conflict to end.

... .

Please keep posting here.    Just the act of writing out our thoughts can help relieve some of the stress, and give us more clarity.    Let us know how you are doing.     Many members have been in where you are.   

'ducks

Thanks so much for your response - yes im totally checked out now. We might know each other, but i can hardly call it a relationship of any kind.

Thanks for your suggestions, i will be taking care of myself. I think i will be trying to limit phone calls from now on, i don't know why i have let it get so bad. I think i just wait for things to peter out because its safer. I can see that if this is the main source of fuel for her at the moment, it will frustrate her, but i'm sure i can do it gently. Hopefully by now after being moved out this long and separated, this will only get easier. I suppose this would be different if I had just moved out?

Yes i am safe now, moving out was the best thing I ever did.

Appreciate your feedback, i welled up when i read some of it. I'm trying real hard to help her get by, but she is chewing off the hand that feeds her.

I do have some people i can talk to, i am at a church, which my partner despises. I have a great community but i don't really open up too much to others about the details of my situation because its a burden to whoever hears it.

Hanging in there. Will take to heart your advice

[xian398]

Ok so if you are determined for it to be done here are my suggestions.

... .

Thanks for your response, much appreciated

Recently I have sourced a qualified therapist, i have not engaged with them yet though. I don't plan on telling her though i can't afford to tick her off any more - this might be a problem

Just reading the links you sent, i'm now a little worried about how it this is going to end. Man what am I in for.

I must say, you have much help to offer. Indeed I know i need boundaries, and they do infuriate her - but i don't know how to keep them because i cave into her aggression and backpedal every time. I feel to weak to do this

I like your advice on responding to things with a delay, never considered that. Will take note! I keep all my SMS's & emails from her, as well as record all phone calls - although this probably can't be used

Your point about being boring is a good one, i realise now that i have unknowingly already started doing that by sounding deadless - although inside i kind of am.

Will look up extinct burst - you make it sounds pretty ominous

Thanks for your help, i think i am now a little more prepared for battle. My thinking is that I will keep showing my incapacity to meet her needs, eventually she will tap out.

I appreciate your comments so much, thanks for your understanding and taking the time to talk

[hope2727]

i have not engaged with them yet though. I don't plan on telling her though smiley i can't afford to tick her off any more - this might be a problem

Your life... .not her business. Her reaction is her responsibility. Don't get caught up in FOG (fear obligation and guilt). You are seeking therapy for you. Her issues are her's to solve.

Read, educate yourself, make informed choices and then act on them. IT will get worse before better but you will prevail. And then you will be free.

[babyducks]

Hello Xian398

It was nice to see your postings.

I think i will be trying to limit phone calls from now on, i don't know why i have let it get so bad. I think i just wait for things to peter out because its safer. I can see that if this is the main source of fuel for her at the moment, it will frustrate her, but i'm sure i can do it gently.

I am sure you can do it gently too.    I would recommend that you come here and practice with us, especially if you have safety concerns.   Safety comes first.   Don't you agree?    Think about how and what you want to say... .and write it out here.   People will make suggestions on how to better maintain the boundary you create.    It will make it easier.

I'm trying real hard to help her get by, but she is chewing off the hand that feeds her.

Let's talk about this for a minute okay?   I think it might be an important insight into what's going on with you.

An expert in the field of personality disorders, Margalis Fjelstad, said this about how people with personality disorders see/process/experience/view life.   She said that people with this type of disordered thinking:

- See their emotions as being caused by others or by events outside themselves, with no belief that they have any sort of control over their emotions
- Believe that the only way to change how they feel is to get other people or events to change

Let's pull this apart a little more.  Let's say you and I went down to the train station to take the train into the city, and after waiting for a little while, we find out the train has derailed before we got on it.    I'm guessing we will both feel a little upset,   worried about the people who were on the trail,  disturbed by our close call,   concerned about how to re-arrange our travel plans.     All pretty normal, and we would take steps to work and talk through that.

a person with BPD will reacted differently.    they will see the train derailment as more about them and less about one of the natural occurrence that (while regrettable) happens in life.   You might hear things like, 'this always happens to me, no matter how I make plans, they never work out'.    Or 'I told you we should have driven the car but NO you knew better'.    Or 'that could have been you and I on
that train and you would have died and left me'.    they will process the emotions differently.     

Does that fit with what  happens in your relationship?   You want to help her,  you want her to quietly agree to go away.    You want things to end on a calm note.    But for her,  the way she 'helps' herself is to change you.    The way she feels better is make you responsible for her life.     

When you attempt to change that, she reacts strongly,  by trying harder to change her feelings by making the people or events around her different.

and because your wants and needs and her wants and needs are so dynamically opposed there will be conflict.     Here at this site,  we have a lot of tools and tips about how to deal with the conflict.     There are communication skills that will help, like JADE, and SET.   and tools like validation and boundaries that will help you get your voice heard.

Keep posting.   Many of us have been where you are now.   We know how it feels.

'ducks

[xian398]

Your life... .not her business. Her reaction is her responsibility. Don't get caught up in FOG (fear obligation and guilt). You are seeking therapy for you. Her issues are her's to solve.

Read, educate yourself, make informed choices and then act on them. IT will get worse before better but you will prevail. And then you will be free.

this is really well said, ok i will try for sure

[xian398]

Hello Xian398

It was nice to see your postings... .

thanks so much for your help, you know the more i read from you, and your feedback, the more confident and in control I felt. Depending on my circumstances i surely will come here to advice on things to say

I have arranged to see someone this week, i'm very hopeful

Your quote from "Margalis Fjelstad" makes total sense.

going to look into JADE and SET

[hope2727]

There are many great lessons and tools on this board. Explore the workshops and lessons and see which ones resonate with you.

[xian398]

There are many great lessons and tools on this board. Explore the workshops and lessons and see which ones resonate with you.

i think whats been hard is that i feel so weak in this circumstance, and I can't stand up for myself

[babyducks]

Hi xian398,

well of course you feel weak and like you can't stand up for yourself.   that's completely natural.   honestly it would be a little weird if you didn't feel that way.

there are reasons you feel weak and depleted.    you've been in the middle of a very stressful, high conflict, emotionally tense, chaotic situation for a long time now.   that would take a toll on anyone.

what I see in your posts is someone who is very tired, but is struggling to find and do the right thing.    which to me, says you have a lot of integrity and a strong inner character.

if you could only change one thing today,   if you could start to make one thing different, what one thing would it be?

'ducks

[xian398]

Hi xian398,

well of course you feel weak and like you can't stand up for yourself.   that's completely natural.   honestly it would be a little weird if you didn't feel that way.

there are reasons you feel weak and depleted.    you've been in the middle of a very stressful, high conflict, emotionally tense, chaotic situation for a long time now.   that would take a toll on anyone.

what I see in your posts is someone who is very tired, but is struggling to find and do the right thing.    which to me, says you have a lot of integrity and a strong inner character.

if you could only change one thing today,   if you could start to make one thing different, what one thing would it be?

'ducks

thanks that is very encouraging, i think what id like to do is be able to tell her is "i'm not going to take all her calls anymore", and basically be able to ignore her even if she starts the smear campaign or make wild accusations.

problem is she needs help and is moving house. is there a correlation between fibro and BPD?

[babyducks]

Hi xian

.

problem is she needs help and is moving house. is there a correlation between fibro and BPD?

can we do a little reality checking here?   she is an adult correct?    with a basic set of adult skills about how to move and how to pack?

If you want to help her,  it should be because you want to.  Not because you feel an obligation to.   Not because you feel guilty for her condition.   

I don't know if there is a connection between BPD and fibro.   I've never heard of one.    the only thing that comes to mind is that people with BPD are often in great emotional pain,  and that might manifest into being reported as physical pain.    or not. 

you have every right to set limits about how much contact you want and when you want it.   It is perfectly acceptable to say "I won't take any phone calls after 8PM because I want some quiet time to myself."   

It is perfectly fine to say "I will help from 1PM to 3PM and then I am done for the day."

how would you express to her that you don't want to take her calls and how do you think that conversation would go?