Need advice

[Hyacinth Bucket]

My DD20 was feeling suicidal yesterday and admitted herself to the hospital,  which my husband and I were very surprised by. It was a very mature decision on her part to use the tools available to her (she has refused to get a therapist for the past couple of years).

When she called from the ER, she said we really needed to talk because she feels like her dad and I are weening  her off of us and that we don't have time or don't want to be her parents.

We are trying to ween her off of us being her only emotional support, and we have stopped as of a few months ago any enabling behavior we were participating in. The fact that she chose to admit herself shows that we are doing the right thing.

But what do I tell her? Things are different. I can't drop everything to help her anymore as I started graduate school. My husband has a new job that he can't take off from. She is feeling that she isn't the most important thing in our lives anymore. I am unsure how much to tell her about enabling and codependency,  etc.

Does anyone have experience with this or have any advice?

Thank you!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Huat]

Hello again Hyacinth.

Wish I had it in me to tell you to turn right... .then left... .then all will be fixed.  This daughter of yours is, indeed, a needy soul... .fighting those demons within her. 

Great to read that she had the ability to check herself into ER when she was feeling suicidal... .and great that she said all of you had to talk.  Yes!   Well, maybe she has said that before?  I'm sure you have nudged her along the way to see a therapist and she has refused.  Could now be the time to bring the subject up again... .suggest that she join you and her dad in counselling (for starters)?  Well, ya might have already done that, too, but... .try again?

Hyacinth, my heart goes out to you.  Taking on a child, knowing of the problems that came along with that child, is admirable... .to say the least.  Part of every  parent's job is to ween their children off of dependence... .get them off on their own.  She is no longer a child but a young adult.  She is clinging to you like cellophane!

From what I have read in your posts, you and your husband have done all you possibly could have done... .and I'm sure you will continue to do so.  You have already set down some very-difficult-to-make boundaries and you have not waffled.  I have no doubt that whatever decisions you come to in the future will be well-thought-out, too.  No matter what happens, you have to remain confident that you have done the best you could... .no guilt trips!

Another (HUG)   to you.  God knows you need as many as you can get. 

Huat

[SlyQQ]

You are probably not going to like this advice-

Things are playing out pretty much as expected before your departure,


If you know there is someone reliable she will turn to, an option is to get yourself painted black, which will probably happen sooner or later ( regardless), if she has support from the hospital or a reliable friend ( partners are generally not good at this), you will get cut off and over a period of eighteen months or so may slowly let you back into her life, with many possible dangerous or even potentially lethal slips on the way, when and if she returns - she will come to accept you have a life of your own and things may improve.

I'm sorry it is not good advice but it is a scenario you are looking squarely at.

[Lollypop]

Hi

For me, I look back at and can see I focussed too much on my DS27, particularly 15-22. Everything revolves around him, I tried everything to fix. I wouldn’t let him suffer the consequences of his actions and foolishly thought I could make him stay on the right track (my track!).

The very best thing I did was to change my own situation. Like you I went back to college. I started to live my own life and demonstrate how I take better care of myself. I hope that my DS27 learns be watching, I make sure as best I can that I do focus though on our core relationship. This means using better skills to communicate and empathy so he “feels” love, despite him knowing that he’s left to be responsible for himself. It’s tricky!

What do you tell her? The truth but using the skills here.  

DEAR(MAN) should help you in conflicting situations, especially boundary setting...  SET as a day to day tool. Validation, validation, validation - there’s never enough. These will help your daughter “feel” supported, able to inch forwards.

My DS was scared of everything, he needed reassurance. Still is and still does - but not in the same quantities. I was setting a boundary on the level of my input but still took the calls and texts. I weened him off us.

He understood the words “I taught you how to use a spoon and tie your own shoe laces. You’re a young adult now and this is exactly the same. Everything you should be doing for yourself, you should do yourself. That’s how we learn, by making  mistakes.  I’ve done too much for you and I can see that now. I know it’s scary but you’re not on your own, we’re here as we always were to emotionally support you. We know you can do this and if you do make a mistake then it’s ok. This is about you learning how to stitch yourself together. We love you.”

Actually, looking at that again it’s wsy too long but you get the idea? Please read more about DEARMAN and SET. I use DEARMAN and have never needed to get to the MAN bit - it works a treat. These are my words and it’s imporyant you use your own, go with your gut as you can do this and you can do it really well.

What kind of things is your daughter expecting from you? I’m wondering - lots of texts, lifts, money?

LP

[Hyacinth Bucket]

SlyQQ, on the contrary, I really appreciate hearing it from people who have been there. 

LP, yes I have focused on her too much as well. It felt justified at the time because we adopted her at 17 and before that I was her court appointed special advocate.  But now I know I rescued her way too much from even small things. 

She called and wanted to talk about it.  I told her I understood why she felt abandoned since we wouldn't let her come stay with us.  She said she couldn't rely on us and I told her she's right,  she won't be able to always rely on us. She hung up on me when I was trying to explain more,  but there was no  yelling so that was good. She is often momentarily very self aware- she said she knows we have often gone to heroic lengths to rescue her from stuff and we are probably really sick of it.  I told her due to changes in our lives we aren't in a position to do that,  and if we always rescue her it doesn't allow her to build the skills she needs to handle it on her own. 

I reminded her that her dad wanted to come spend the day with her Sunday. She said it wasn't about us spending time with her, and She was focused on the fact that "all she wanted was a safe place to be and we couldn't provide that". When I kept agreeing with her she finally hung up.

It still astonishes me how guilty I feel initially after exchanges like that with her.  It's so draining.

She has no friends to speak of,  and my family isn't equipped to deal with her. She can go visit my best friend for Xmas, who she adores, but I haven't decided that that is the right thing yet.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

(She had wanted to come stay with us and I said no because I have finals.  Her dad waneed to go spend the day with her instead. )

[Lollypop]

Hi again

I did that annoying thing by editing my post while you were replying!

Oops!

You’ve made your decision based on your gut and rationalising it out. You can’t do more than that. It’s ok to put yourself first and I just wanted you to know that. Decisions made in FOG (fear, obligation or guilt) tend to work out as wrong decisions. Detachment is hard and it works both ways. It takes time and situations like these to get used to it.

Hugs

LP

[JustYouWait]

hyacinth -

I feel your pain, guilt, and confusion.  My wife and I are in the process of "weaning off" (and what a profoundly perfect phrase... .I'm stealing that).  It is slightly different for us in that our DD is in RT right now, 7 hours away, so our only contact is by phone.

Still - for the first few weeks, my initial reaction to her calling and telling me she was/is/tried suicide/self-harmed was to "fly in and fix", as was my previous M.O. 

Then , I realized a few things:

1.  I am not there.
2.  I cannot be there for 7 hours at a minimum.
3.  If I went there, I may not be helpful.
4.  My previous actions of "flying in" *may* have contributed to the disease, as opposed to helping the situation (this one was incredibly hard to process).
5.  I cannot, should not, and lastly, WILL not always be there to solve problems, nor should I be.
6.  She is currently in a place with 10 other women with the same problem, and she isn't "special".
7.  I am not qualified to solve this, nor should I be expected to be.
8.  The staff in RT are all of those things, and are prepared for it.
9.  All of these things suck.  It makes me feel powerless and helpless.

and here was the result, for me:  I came up with a mantra.  use it if works for you... .

10.  Sometimes you have to MAKE things happen, and sometimes, you have to LET things happen.  Wisdom lies in knowing the difference.

You are not alone.  Keep posing.  I hope this helps.

-JYW

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Hi Huat and LP, thank you for your kind words and encouragement

JYW,  thank you, it does help. I desperately want her to learn to function on her own. And you're right, I am not equipped deal with the suicidal behavior, she needs professionals.

Sending warm wishes to all of you. My husband is going to visit her in inpatient tonight so hopefully that goes ok.

[SlyQQ]

I thought about things Hyacinth, it is unfortunate your sd has nowhere safe to land/ turn to,

Hospital friends, stripper friends are good for shared experience, but bad ( nothing personal here ) at being "good" friends.

My inclination is to tell a version of the truth to your sd. I make a point of never lying to my sd re where i am why i was late etc , but some situations are more flexible, consider telling your sd if you don't go away with your husband for a break you are afraid he might leave you ( which might be an extrapolation of what might happen if your sd is continually prioritized above him)

She will understand this, (and it might alleviate her thoughts that you are "abandoning " her somewhat especially if you tell her how much you will miss her and promise to keep in touch ( set -times etc) also it might be unrealistic to expect any time in the near future she will be able to look after herself, this will be a difficult path, I am suggesting this because i am really out of ideas.

good luck

[1hope]

Lollypop,
I've read all about SET, and we've been trying to use it.  Is there a link to DEARMAN? 
1hope

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Hyacinth Bucket]

SlyQQ,

Thanks, my husband (her dad) went to see DD20 at inpatient tonight and i had sent some coloring books and candy and a nice card explaining that i will always be her parent, i might not always do what she wants because i can't or i think it isn't the right thing. i ran it past my therapist and she said it was good.

so he got up there and SHE WASN'T THERE. We called her horrible ex boyfriend that she still talks to see if he'd heard from her. She had shown up this afternoon to get her stuff from his place and said she was going to a halfway house. she was with some guy and the number her ex was given is in another state (on the other side of the country) so I really am baffled as to where she is. DD20 told the ex that she would call us, so I am going to wait and see.

Meanwhile her poor dad drove an hour each way to find out she'd left... .

sigh.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Lollypop,
I've read all about SET, and we've been trying to use it.  Is there a link to DEARMAN? 
1hope

1hope - it's part of DBT, here is a good page: https://www.mindfulnessmuse.com/dialectical-behavior-therapy/using-d-e-a-r-m-a-n-to-get-what-you-want

[wendydarling]

This link takes you to Relationship Tools and Skills Workshops Where you'll find 1.17: Communicate D.E.A.R.M.A.N and 1.15: Communicate Listen to be Heard