Trying to stay optimistic, but my marriage is most certainly failing

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi DB, I was thinking of you this evening and wanted to see how you were doing.  Sorry it's not going well.  It is gut-wrenching, no two ways about it.  So painful it can take your breath away.  I am so sorry that you are experiencing that pain.  I hope you are able to steal some smiles with your daughter tomorrow.  I hope you get some sleep tonight after wrapping and assembling!  Let us know how things go.  You are not alone.

WW 

[Radcliff]

Hi DB, I was thinking of you this evening and wanted to see how you were doing.  Sorry it's not going well.  It is gut-wrenching, no two ways about it.  So painful it can take your breath away.  I am so sorry that you are experiencing that pain.  I hope you are able to steal some smiles with your daughter tomorrow.  I hope you get some sleep tonight after wrapping and assembling!  Let us know how things go.  You are not alone.

WW 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

DB, mind reading isn't a human ability. If she wanted to do stockings, then she needed to tell you.

"Oh we are doing stockings this year?"

She glares.

" I didn't know that honey, but I have a gift for you. Merry Christmas" and go on your way.

Please don't accept responsibility for something you can not do:mind reading, predicting the future.

If she wanted to do stockings, then it is her responsibility to tell you.

[Notwendy]

now I’m going to try and “fix” things or maybe not.


Is it your job to fix this? It seems your wife is upset over an honest mistake ( grabbing the wrong stocking) and her own failure to let you know she wanted to do stockings.

Really, all we can do is our best in things. You have done your best- and there is nothing to fix. She can hold on to this if she chooses, or have a nice day on Christmas. This is out of your control.

One consideration is your daughter. If you feel things are getting out of hand on Christmas - consider taking her out somewhere. Maybe there is a nice movie she'd like to see. If your wife starts at you say "I understand you are upset but can we hold it together for our D today" and if things get out of hand " honey, I want D to have a good time, we are going to see this show and let you have some time to yourself" and take her out of the conflict.

[DaddyBear77]

Merry Christmas everyone (now that the day is finally here!)

Most of you have probably picked up on the fact that I’m not a religious person, but I have some really fond memories from my childhood that DO include the Protestant church and some really wonderful friends and family. So it’s a pretty special and important day for me.

Last night I ended up making the usual promises of never hurting my wife again. I said what she wanted me to say and did so in the proper combination so as to get about 6 or 7 hours of sleep. This morning I woke up to another patented Wake and Rage moments before our daughter knocked on the door. It was another awkward hour or so. My wife obviously wanted to continue the argument while we made breakfast for our daughter and her mother, and finally I just picked my wife up in my arms, carried her back to bed, gave her the apology she needed, and we moved on with another “happy” Christmas morning.

I did a WHOLE bunch of wrong things here, I know it. I again took responsibility for “abuse” when I knew better. I apologized for being a bad husband when that’s not at all what I believe. But it’s all becoming so clear that this pattern will never, ever be fixed by any of this. The only thing I do is buy a few hours or a day or two. So I “bought” myself Christmas Day.

As a side note, Notwendy, we have a really unique situation where my wife believes I am going to “steal” our daughter away from her the moment I leave by myself with her in the car. She believes at any moment, my parents could be sitting at the corner, waiting to poison her mind with the idea that my wife is crazy and an unfit mother. So I won’t be taking my daughter anywhere very easily, at least not at the moment. I’ve tried once or twice but the situation gets scary VERY quickly, with my wife blocking the door, taking my keys if she can, etc.

So things are stable today, and I’m going back to enjoy what time I can with my daughter. I hope everyone is having a calm day and can enjoy the season with love and peace. If you’re lacking some in your Home or in your life, just let me know and I’ll send you some.

Merry Christmas!

~DB

[Notwendy]

I don't blame you for choosing a peaceful Christmas. I too have defaulted to keeping the peace to avoid an issue on a holiday or family event. However you are correct that this decision doesn't lead to a solution that is good for you as a person. It won't make your wife happier in the long run but I suppose things will suit her immediate wants if you do whatever she wants no matter what you want.

Perhaps it is because this is what I grew up in that I decided that I can't do this. It meant putting my relationship on the line - with my parents and also my marriage. Fortunately the marital issues were not as severe as my parents' and my H is invested in the relationship. He chose to stay and accept a new dynamic. My father went along with my mother.

That hurt -but perhaps it took this for me to see what it is like to lose oneself. Decades of appeasing my mother - absolute obedience to her wishes, enduring verbal abuse over time was a pattern. If I went out with him he had to call and check in every few moments. If we were late - she'd pitch a fit. I think she may have been afraid I'd tell him she's nuts. I thought she was and said it too.

Your wife may have her fears that your family will influence you or your D. She's probably right. So she controls your interaction with them and doesn't allow you to take your D out alone. This robs you of a relationship with them.

However- she need not fear. My fathers FOO and his own children may have tried to influence them but it didn't work. Only he could make the choice to be himself in the relationship or just do what my mother wanted. Only he would pay the cost of either decision.

I don't believe the "improving"board requires nons to be in a relationship no matter what- to choose compliance for the sake of staying together. However - this is a choice one can make. The other one is to make changes - and risk a reaction. Each person can only choose for themselves.

[Notwendy]

 

I don't blame you for choosing a peaceful Christmas. I too have defaulted to keeping the peace to avoid an issue on a holiday or family event. However you are correct that this decision doesn't lead to a solution that is good for you as a person. It won't make your wife happier in the long run but I suppose things will suit her immediate wants if you do whatever she wants no matter what you want.

Perhaps it is because this is what I grew up in that I decided that I can't do this. It meant putting my relationship on the line - with my parents and also my marriage. Fortunately the marital issues were not as severe as my parents' and my H is invested in the relationship. He chose to stay and accept a new dynamic. My father went along with my mother.

That hurt -but perhaps it took this for me to see what it is like to lose oneself. Decades of appeasing my mother - absolute obedience to her wishes, enduring verbal abuse over time was a pattern. If I went out with him he had to call and check in every few moments. If we were late - she'd pitch a fit. I think she may have been afraid I'd tell him she's nuts. I thought she was and said it too.

Your wife may have her fears that your family will try to influence you or your D. She's probably right. So she controls your interaction with them and doesn't allow you to take your D out alone. This robs you of a relationship with them.

However- she need not fear. My fathers FOO and his own children may have tried to influence him but it didn't work. Only he could make the choice to be himself in the relationship or just do what my mother wanted. Only he would pay the cost of either decision.

I don't believe the "improving"board requires nons to be in a relationship no matter what- to choose compliance for the sake of staying together. However - this is a choice one can make. The other one is to make changes - and risk a reaction. Each person can only choose for themselves.

[Radcliff]

DB,

I cannot tell you how many special days I have bought with appeasement and saying just the right things, while sacrificing myself.  For each of those days, I'd probably do it again, but I reached my limit, both for the active disruption of my relationship with my youngest daughter, and the effect on my health.  I wish I'd found out about BPD and had the support of this board years earlier, though on top of that what I really wish is that I'd had the courage to take action years earlier.  I would have had to risk the relationship, and that was terrifying to me.  I think one of the biggest obstacles was that I didn't feel like I had any good options to drive change.  I am sure that I had more than I realized, but I felt like there was no way out.  What about for you?  What might it look like if you tried to drive for change?

WW

[DaddyBear77]

What might it look like if you tried to drive for change?

I visualize the path ahead kind of like one of those “choose your own adventure” books, the difference is that we both pick our own and sometimes one person’s choice changes all the other persons choices. The thing is, we’re each still picking our own next step out of the available choices at the moment.

The first chapter is chaos. 18 years of the same pattern is broken. WW, I know you know this one.

After that, sky’s the limit. I can guess which choices she’ll make, and each one of her choices limits or expands my options. If I were to envision an ideal scenario, it would be me saying “I’ve decided to... .” She goes way off the deep end, she ends up in the ER or calling a therapist, and she starts to see something’s wrong. We have a productive conversation, we start couples therapy, she gets a real therapist, and things finally start to improve. Once upon a time this seemed more likely, but not so much any more.

What’s worst case is that she follows through on her threats to have an affair and/or separation and divorce. If there’s ever a scenario where I need to find somewhere else to live, I will have to decide whether or not to set up a status quo scenario where my daughter stays with her, or I seek an immediate custody arrangement to protect my rights. And it all goes down hill relationship wise from there. I’ll be lonely and will fight the urges to reconcile and give in. I’ll reconnect old friendships and they’ll help me be strong. I’ll probably be a better dad assuming I pick the custody route. But the adventure paths here are many.

I won’t lie - separation sounds appealing. And the therapy “I need help” scenario sounds far fetched. Anything in beteeen could happen.

I think the important part here is deciding THIS status quo is unlivable. I knew that about 5 years ago, though, so I don’t know what I’m waiting for.

[SlyQQ]

Just an observation that i am sure you are aware of it is "common" for someone with BPD to try an isolate there partner from others( you extended family ), it is also a trait of some forms of domestic violence.

[Notwendy]

Sorry for the double post. Using my phone, I accidentally posted twice.

You do have the choice to continue as you are doing, or to also risk the relationship and face an unknown, and to separate- all are possible choices that only you can decide to do.

I understand the risk of her ending up in the ER. I observed this one too.

I also defaulted into appeasement in my own marriage. It was easy to do as this is the pattern I learned growing up- if you want to be loved, you must appease and not make waves. I got to a point where I just couldn't do it emotionally any more. Maybe you have not gotten to this point.

Perhaps a first step is to hold on to your own version of reality. Your wife may fear your FOO's influence on you, but others will have no influence on you if you are willing to lie to yourself. Living with a disordered person has its challenges, but does it necessitate accepting the other person's version of reality? It is living in cognitive dissonance. Your wife's thinking is disordered. You know it and your family does too. One day your D will know it. You are not an abusive husband. Accidentally filling the wrong stuffing is not the crime of the century and doesn't mean more than that- except in the mind of someone who makes up their own reasons for it. Taking your D out to the park does not mean your parents are plotting to take her. This is disordered thinking and it isn't true.

Yet, ever time to agree to these premises, you accept them yourself- validate this lie. Having a support system helps you hold on to your reality. I don't think your wife does these things deliberately- I am not sure of this, but I think an aspect of BPD is some sense of awareness that their own thinking is different. She's afraid others will influence you- her own fear of abandonment- and so isolates you. You aren't able to have counseling, see your FOO.

Maybe a first step is to see your own therapist to help reinforce your own reality. Between you and the T you can decide what next steps you might want to take.
 

[Harley Quinn]

DB,

I hope that you are not beating yourself up too much in all of this.  In my r/s with my son's father, who has NPD traits, I found that a great deal of the stress that I was encountering was internal, as I tented to heap it on myself and criticise my action/inaction heavily.  You've had some realisations and in doing so, there can come a heavy sense of responsibility around our own behaviours and whilst acceptance of the current situation is important in order to move forwards, try to avoid dwelling on what you perceive your mistakes to have been.  Leave the past (which is yesterday, this morning, five years ago) where it belongs and look to the future now.  This we can control the direction of through our choices.  I just wanted to share this as I've been where you are and I gave myself such a hard time that I only added to the turmoil I was facing at the time.  Forgive yourself what has gone and free yourself to deal with the now and the what comes next.

For what it's worth, the turning point for me was asking myself what I was teaching my (1 year old at the time) son was OK in a relationship.  It was this that caused me to take action.  Because, as a codependent by nature, it is easier for me to put someone else's well being before my own.  Still not the healthiest of reasons for me to act, however it was enough to see me through to the point where I now value my own well being and understand my own strength better than ever before.  Perhaps you don't know yet what you are capable of.

Love and light x