I think my mother's relative has a PD?

[Notwendy]

Those following my posts have read that my mother painted me black to her FOO and I have been alienated from them. I have seen/spoken to them in a few occasions since, but we don't have regular contact. One of them ( I will call her Jane )once sent a mean spirited ( and untrue ) group e mail to family members about me. She didn't ever apologize but is cordial to me on the rare occasions I have seen her.

Her husband ( I will call him Fred)  has tried to keep in touch with me at times, but when I we speak on the phone, she is also in the room but does not speak to me. She doesn't ask to speak to me or pick up the phone so I can hear her commenting in the background- to which he suddenly replies that they have to go, they have plans, and hangs up.

This is very reminiscent of the behavior between my parents. I would be speaking with my father and my mother would walk in the room and he would hang up.

I called them recently to ask about a family member who I heard was ill. I want to wish them well.  It was the same situation- Fred picked up the phone and seemed to enjoy speaking to me while I heard Jane telling him " we have to go" in the background ( and not asking to speak to me). Then he said he had to go and hung up.

I didn't really think about this, but this pattern has happened each time to the point where I wonder if Jane has BPD or NPD. I didn't consider this as she is quite successful in her work while my BPD mother can not hold a job. Their family seemed much more functional than mine. I don't know if there is any serious behaviors but nobody outside my own FOO guessed my mother had them either. I know that this family is centered on Jane and Fred tends to go along with whatever Jane wants.

At any rate, I don't plan to try to find out. Whatever is going on, I don't want to get involved in. However, patterns do run in families.

[Turkish]

Bowen wrote a lot about differentiation and also intergenerational transmission (which would apply to both good traits and those bad).

Being married,  and also growing up with PDs, it isn't easy to differentiate behavior-wise from a spouse. In a perfect world,  it should be,  and people should be free to maintain their relationships with others aside from familial influence if those relationships are not hurting others,  validly not invalidly.

[Notwendy]

I agree - it is tough to maintain differentiation.

I can see where my H and I have influenced each other, and lately though, I feel more confident in maintaining my own thoughts and ideas without being bothered by his if he felt differently about something than I did. This was not always the case, but I am working on better boundaries- knowing what is "me" and what isn't.

I also can see the patterns in my FOO. In mine, who we were revolved around what my mother wanted. She expressed her thoughts constantly. Her world view was the directive- and her thinking is disordered. Her larger FOO has narcisisitic traits- that was evident, but Jane's high functioning in contrast to my mother's lower functioning had me puzzled.

Now, I think otherwise. At some point Jane decided to see me critically- and I have no idea what happened since she hardly had contact with me in the first place. It's been Fred who held out the white flag to me- and I have tried to reciprocate cordially. We even invited them to lunch once and only he showed up with some excuse about how Jane couldn't make it. At first I assumed that she was just busy, but now it has been several phone calls of the same pattern. Jane is in the same room but does not ask to speak to me and Fred seems pressured to get off the phone. I don't think this is a coincident- and now wonder if Jane has some issue with me. However, I am not invested enough to try to pursue why.

[Harri]

Hi.  It would not be surprising if she does have at least BPD traits.  I think environment can have a lot to do with developing BPD and like you said, family patterns can exist.

Why do you stay in touch with this cousin?  The dynamics between jane and Fred are so similar to how your parents were that I would think it causes a feeling of uneasiness at least.  Is that correct?

Is there anyone else you can contact for information about other family members?

[Notwendy]

Hi Harri-

I plan to contact the family member who is ill, but learned that they only wish to be contacted by immediate family for a while.  I am not immediate family and want to respect their wishes, but these relatives are. I contacted them to ask them to let me know when it would be appropriate to contact. My only other source of information is my mother, and so they are the more reliable contact for information. The dynamics are similar, but they are higher functioning in terms of information.

As to contact- I have remained in LC with my mother and her FOO. For me to be NC would mean no contact with any of them- including my mother and I don't choose to do this. So there is contact from time to time. Although the dynamics remind me of my parents, one difference is the emotional result of them. It was difficult to deal with these in my own parents. With these relatives, it is more of an observation, a clue to my own FOO dynamics, but it isn't emotionally hurtful at this point.