Vacation Planning Conundrum.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I realize that elements of this subject have been discussed a great deal in the past on this site. Here is my specific take on this ongoing conundrum:

Just a little background… I have two small kids and my wife exhibits many signs of BPD. However, she has never been diagnosed and refuses to see anyone who could diagnose.  In the past, we have been near hermits because of this. I have vowed that this will end. I have also learned to focus on my own well-being and not get so caught up in getting a diagnosis for my wife. But, that's for another post.

In the past, I would simply not take vacations or make even small trips to placate my wife. She would throw bizarre temper tantrums and take efforts to sabotage various trips (which could have been great memories had she let them). With therapy and this listserv, I have realized that putting my life (and our kids’ childhood) on hold was a HUGE mistake. Life goes on whether the BP partner wants it to or not. This leads me to the conundrum.

My wife has been seeing a therapist recently. I have seen some minor (baby step) improvements. She still refuses to acknowledge any mental health issues and says that the therapy is to help her deal with our “failed” marriage. Either way, I have made a conscientious decision to stay. I have seen an improvement in the violence. As I said above, I refuse to not provide my children with childhood experiences. I’m not even talking about major ones. Weekend trips to state parks, etc. When I plan these, my wife gets angry that I do not include her in the planning process. When I take a stab at it and try to include her in the planning process, she belittles every option and suggestion that I make while not even offering her own. She is extremely condescending of my suggestions even though I know darn well that the kids would absolutely love my suggestions. It’s a lose-lose situation; plan without her and face wrath or try to include her in the planning and face derision which ends in her stomping about making “woe is me” exclamations peppered with obscenities.

How have others dealt with this? My previous therapist just told me to plan away and then tell her she was more than welcome (and encouraged) to come. That’s ended with very mixed results. It might also not be the best for "improving" the relationship? Or, is it the only option?

[walkinthepark247]

I realize that elements of this subject have been discussed a great deal in the past on this site. Here is my specific take on this ongoing conundrum:

Just a little background… I have two small kids and my wife exhibits many signs of BPD. However, she has never been diagnosed and refuses to see anyone who could diagnose.  In the past, we have been near hermits because of this. I have vowed that this will end. I have also learned to focus on my own well-being and not get so caught up in getting a diagnosis for my wife. But, that's for another post.

In the past, I would simply not take vacations or make even small trips to placate my wife. She would throw bizarre temper tantrums and take efforts to sabotage various trips (which could have been great memories had she let them). With therapy and this listserv, I have realized that putting my life (and our kids’ childhood) on hold was a HUGE mistake. Life goes on whether the BP partner wants it to or not. This leads me to the conundrum.

My wife has been seeing a therapist recently. I have seen some minor (baby step) improvements. She still refuses to acknowledge any mental health issues and says that the therapy is to help her deal with our “failed” marriage. Either way, I have made a conscientious decision to stay. I have seen an improvement in the violence. As I said above, I refuse to not provide my children with childhood experiences. I’m not even talking about major ones. Weekend trips to state parks, etc. When I plan these, my wife gets angry that I do not include her in the planning process. When I take a stab at it and try to include her in the planning process, she belittles every option and suggestion that I make while not even offering her own. She is extremely condescending of my suggestions even though I know darn well that the kids would absolutely love my suggestions. It’s a lose-lose situation; plan without her and face wrath or try to include her in the planning and face derision which ends in her stomping about making “woe is me” exclamations peppered with obscenities.

How have others dealt with this? My previous therapist just told me to plan away and then tell her she was more than welcome (and encouraged) to come. That’s ended with very mixed results. It might also not be the best for "improving" the relationship? Or, is it the only option?

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[Tattered Heart]

Reading through SET might help you come up with some thought processing on the situation.

Here's a thought: Does your W really want to plan the vacation or does she want to know that she has a say in things?

My H gets mad if I start planning things without including him. I'm the planner in the house. I make time schedules and plan the activities for all vacations. I realized that he would start to get agitated about things when I would roll right over him with plans. One thing I try to do now is give him choices in little things that don't affect the overall bigger picture, such as:

Do you want to leave in the early morning or the late morning?
Should we stay at a Best Western or a 3 star hotel?
Should I try the 'name your own price' on Priceline or book directly from hotels.com?
Should we grab lunch on the go or make sandwiches ahead of time?

These little choices are of no consequence to me. Usually once he makes a couple of these little decisions he gets bored with it and leaves the rest with me.

Do you think littler choices could help her feel like she has some control in the situation?

[Radcliff]

walkinthepark247,

Sometimes I think I should hang back and always wait for Tattered Heart to reply first!  What did you think about her suggestion?  I liked it.  My situation has been a little different, in that my wife believes in the importance of all of those experiences for the kids and plans many of them.  The problem is that then she threatens to cancel or throws a tantrum before a trip she herself planned!  Let us know if you think Tattered Heart's idea might be helpful in your situation, and if you want more ideas, just ask.

I am glad you started this thread, because it is related to something you said on my thread that I wanted very much to comment on:

There was a section in the Eggshells book with advice related to children of BPs. It stressed the importance of getting those children around others where they can see more healthy relationships. You are blessed in that you have so many good friends you can lean on. Unfortunately, my wife does not have any friends. She is uncomfortable and awkward in groups or around other people. When we do those things, she often makes an excuse not to attend or to leave extremely early.

My extended family takes a trip to the beach every year. My wife has been adamant in the past that she is not going. Well, it would be extremely good for my kids to go. There will be cousins and second-cousins their age. Those types of relationships are so important. My kids cannot be isolated any longer. So, I am going to have to let my wife know that I intend to take the kids to spend time with their cousins.

This struck a chord because my favorite week of every year has been a traditional week-long beach vacation with aunts, uncles and cousins from my wife's side.  As a result of about a dozen of these trips over the years, our daughters are very well connected to that side of the family, even though we live on the opposite coast.  Extended family time and cousin time is incredibly valuable.  These family times are the fabric of life.  I believe you are totally right to advocate for this, and to bring all of your talents to bear to make it happen in the most effective way for your family.

When is the beach vacation?  Perhaps we can support you as you plan and execute a smaller outing or two as trial runs on the way to planning the beach vacation?

WW

[Tattered Heart]

walkinthepark247,

Sometimes I think I should hang back and always wait for Tattered Heart to reply first!  What did you think about her suggestion? 

Oh no! Don't do that. WE all have unique experiences that can add to the conversation. I love the idea of helping you plan for possible specific scenarios that may come up or conversations you may need to have during the trip.

[BasementDweller]

I think your suggestion is a good one, Tattered Heart. I have found that people with BPD really want to be in control of things. I suspect that might be because their emotions are so out of control, that if they can control *things* then it gives them some sort of temporary relief.

And this: "These little choices are of no consequence to me. Usually once he makes a couple of these little decisions he gets bored with it and leaves the rest with me."

HAHA! Yes! My partner is exactly the same, and it's now actually almost funny to me and kind of endearing when it used to drive me nuts. Anytime I would try to plan anything, or even something as simple as picking artwork for the house, or decorating the Christmas tree, he would try to micromanage every little detail - until I'd relinquish control and start giving him choices... .then he would become extremely bored and annoyed with the responsibility, and want no part of it.   

Following TH's advice might be a good option. Your wife might get bored and annoyed with having to plan the vacation if you give her too much to do, and then ultimately, you can continue with your planning.   

[ortac77]

Interesting thread and I like Tattered Hearts suggestion as well. I know my partner gets 'stressed' about travelling, he usually enjoys it once we get away but even when I involve him in the decision making there is always a last minute 'panic' - I have lost count of the times the day before he suddenly says 'I don't want to go/ this was your idea/ you forced me into it' - or along similar lines.

I used to get angry/take it personally until I worked out it was another symptom of an illness, lets face it travelling can be stressful and anyone can feel out of control (just think about the stress of passing through an airport!) and for a BPD sufferer that stress can seem overwhelming. I now involve him in the planning to the extent that he wishes to get involved and 'prepare myself' for the last minute panic during which I try to validate any genuine concerns but do not take any of his comments personally.

Bottom line for me is that I am always prepared to go it alone if necessary because in a busy and stressful life these vacations are important.