Boundary violated

[Furbaby Mom]

Hello all,
For those of you who know me, you know that I am struggling with managing/maintaining relationships with my two sisters in law who both struggle with BPD.  One (SIL 1) has been diagnosed and has struggled immensely.  My husband and I along with my father in law and step mother in law are NC with her right now due to her out of control behavior and words around Christmas.  The other sister (SIL 2) only displays some signs of BPD, but mostly narcissism.  We had been no contact with her for a while (about a year) due to her attempts to sabotage our wedding. 

Two weeks ago, SIL 2 reached out asking to meet up with us.  We agreed and it went as well as it could.  Most of the meeting was clarifying for her why we were upset and what needs to change to move forward.  We agreed to meet again which we did.  That meeting also went alright, but I ended up becoming upset toward the end because she made some very rude comments in an effort to defend herself.

We left that meeting and she had to wait for her ride back to her place.  It was really bad weather and my husband ended up offering for her to come to our place which was near the restaurant where we met.  I really did not want her to know where we live yet, but there was not much I could do. 
She came in for a little while she waited for her ride.

That Saturday (we met her on Tuesday), my husband and I were woken up to a text early in the morning around 7:00 am from her.  She wanted us to come to brunch with her and her boyfriend at a place right around the corner from us.  We declined because we do not know her boyfriend that well and the few interactions we have had with him he has been very aggressive toward us essentially accusing us of doing very mean things to SIL 2.  I know he only has one side of the story, but right now, we do not feel comfortable bringing him into the mix considering we are just trying to repair things with SIL 2 which we made VERY clear during both of our meetings with her. 

Two strange things about this invitation: 1. she lives in a very different part of the city where there are lots of places to brunch so why come to our neighborhood 2. She mentioned she and him were going to our gym right down the street from us. 

Okay, I know they are both public places.  I also know that she has a membership to the gym, but there are MANY locations and she just found out that that is where my husband and I work out.  I felt like it was really pushy and crossing a line just coming to this area.  We did decline her invitation and I wrote it off.  We slept in and then eventually close to noon took our dogs for a walk.  As soon as we stepped out, I got a bad feeling and rounding the corner was SIL 2 and her boyfriend.

Coincidence?  Maybe.  I felt so ambushed.  My theory of them waiting for us is absurd I know... .but the coincidence is soo odd.  She texted way earlier and knew we wouldn't go to brunch, but still came out this way?  I acknowledge how crazy I must sound thinking she did this strategically, but I just know what she is capable of.  Also, out of all the streets to walk down to go to the gym, they picked ours.  The conversation was brief as I was clearly not okay with this encounter.  Her boyfriend really scares me ( I have past trauma from an abusive relationship and how he has treated me in the several times I have seen him he gives off that vibe of trying to intimidate me).

I feel violated.  I feel like we gave her an inch and she's demanding a mile.  Why can't she accept where we are with her boyfriend?  Is it too much to ask to just meet with her for now? 

I cannot move forward with her if she has another boundary violation like this.

[No-One]

Hi Furbaby Mom:
Your boundaries are for what you have control over. You don't have control over where SIL chooses to roam.  You enforced a personal boundary, when you declined to meet with them for brunch.  Unfortunately, you can't set a boundary regarding where they go to brunch, or what gym location they choose to visit.

I can understand how unnerving this must have been for you, as it seemed she was invading your territory and has the potential to continue to do that.  I can, also, understand why you don't want her in your territory.  Walking the dog and going to the gym are activities where you don't want to encounter uncomfortable situations and difficult people.

You have to radically accept that your husband brought her to your home, so now she knows where you live.  As possible, try to avoid the gym or restaurant, during times she might visit, or you get a clue that she could be in the neighborhood.

Just keep enforcing your boundary to decline invitations that include the boyfriend, until you might be ready to have some level of socialization with him.  If she just shows up at your home, then you and your husband will need to set/enforce a boundary that she can't just show up uninvited.  (that is a boundary you can enforce).

Is it possible that your husband could have a private talk with his sister to inquire why she is going to the gym and restaurant near your home?  Perhaps, he could appeal to her and ask her go give you both some space and not to frequent areas where you live (as it is driving you away from a relationships and not towards one).  It does seem that she has an agenda to force you both to have interactions with both her and her boyfriend.

How many miles away does she live?  Could her boyfriend possibly live close to you?




 

[Furbaby Mom]

Thank you for the perspective.  You are right about certain boundaries that I cannot have vs. the ones I can.

My husband offered to talk to her, but felt I was overreacting.  I definitely reacted from a place of knowing how she has been/what she is capable of as opposed to what she is doing now.  We discussed that if she does it again, he will talk to her. 

They live together about 3 miles away from us, again close... .but different neighborhoods in the city.  It is out of their way to come to our part of town, but obviously not anything I can prevent or change. 

What I forgot to add is that I am a business owner.  I run a practice in my neighborhood and have social media for that business to generate leads.  One of the boundaries I set with SIL 2 is no social media contact.  Over this past weekend, she found my business instagram page and has been posting "inspiration" on it.  I think this is what pushed me to feel like there is more of an agenda than just walking by our house. 

Again, this is all shaped by past experiences unfortunately.  Is what she posted to my business site bad?  No.  Is it technically following what I requested? I guess, but social media meant everything not just my personal account.  In the past SIL 2 has pushed very hard for miles once she is given and inch and that scares me.  I guess i just have to keep an eye on it.

[Angie59]

Hello everyone!

Again, I am so grateful to be here and be able to talk to such a wonderful group of people who know exactly what I'm talking about and offer such "awakenings," for me.

Yes, I am angry about how my son is being treated by his girlfriend (the BP) and how she treats the children.  It is hard for me to get past this and that is one problem I need to work on.

One trait (and I know that they do not need to meet each of the DSM's list) but one I hear of a lot is fear of abandonment.  If you feel you will be abandoned, why would you leave your kids all the time and your fiance', go out barhopping and on trips with other men and just about anything else you can think of by not staying at home and being with them?  That behavior almost seems like it would bring on someone leaving them rather than staying with them.

I went out on a limb on a Sunday and called her (the BP) and told her I was happy they were engaged and would be proud to have her as my DIL.  She seemed so touched she was almost in tears.  She thanked me for that and said I love you.  I'm thinking - there's hope!

As soon as she sees my husband and I on Thursday, (we watch our grandchild on Thursday and Fridays), she tells us she is going out of country on a trip as her friend said he didn't have a date for a wedding he was invited to and she said she could go!  Also, offered my  husband pot for his back pain.  We left there like we were walking out of the Twilight Zone!
It was kind of like, don't you want us to like you?  Why say those things to us.

Those kids need their mom there, not just my son, who is with them all of his time when he is not at work.  She is gone 95% of the time and when she is home, she only wants to go out to eat or go shopping for stuff. 

My son has taken on all of the bills, as he is modeling himself after his dad.  My husband worked and I was a stay-at-home working mom.  I am very proud of him for that, but he is being so taken advantage of.  The kids have no insurance, but she goes to very expensive places for makeup etc.  There was make-up sitting there on the table the other day that she paid $103.00 for.  Then I see doubled up bills in another pile. 

It is all so mind-blowing to me!  Also, I do believe that the suggestions I have been given are correct; but how in the world do you get to that point of acceptance when all of this craziness is going on?

Angie59

[ArleighBurke]

One of the boundaries I set with SIL 2 is no social media contact.  

No. This is a rule/expectation you set FOR her. She has the choice to obey or violate it. SHE has the power.

Boundaries are about YOU, and protecting YOU. No-one can violate YOUR boundary - they may trigger an action from you, but they can't violate it. YOU have the power of your boundaries.

For instance, your boundary can be

• If you contact me on social media I will not respond
• If you post something on my wall, I shall delete it
• If you are rude to me, I shall hangup / walk away
• I do not want to be in the presence of your boyfriend. If I arrange to meet you, and he is there, I shall leave

Boundaries are about YOU.

[No-One]

Furbaby Mom:

They live together about 3 miles away from us, again close... .but different neighborhoods in the city.  It is out of their way to come to our part of town, but obviously not anything I can prevent or change.

Just pointing out some possible logic as to why she may like your gym and local restaurant.  Why she chooses to go to places by your home, might not make a real difference to you. 

It's common for people to have a different perspective about things.  For me, I would view something 3 miles away, as in my neighborhood.  Your immediate neighborhood might be a nicer area, or perhaps have a lower crime rate than hers.  She may feel more comfortable mingling with the membership of one gym, versus another. 

I go to a gym that is a private labeled Planet Fitness.  There is a difference in the two locations that are closest to my home.  One has a pool, spa and hydro massage beds.  The other one doesn't have these options. 

Why she chooses to go to places by your home, might not make a real difference to you.  Hopefully, the surprise encounters will be far and few between.  Try to strategise dog walking times/routes and gym visits, so as to be less apt to run into her.

Perhaps, you may want to think of your strategy, should you encounter her inside the gym.  One strategy could be to politely let her know that you enjoy your alone time at the gym and that you don't want her to get offended, if you might appear antisocial.

[Furbaby Mom]

Hello,
ArleighBurke, I see social media as my own boundary and it is my mistake if I did not clarify.  I made it clear to her that I would not engage her on social media.  Where I feel like she is pushing my boundary that I set is that she is posting questions to me on my instagram site, putting me between a rock and a hard place.  On my business site, I typically interact with people.  Having her reach out to me that way I am afraid will possibly make it seem like I am not responding someone... .anyone... .who is reaching out to me.  It feels a little like she is baiting me.

I appreciate the feedback on here especially the helpful words of encouragement.  Being in the family situation that I am in, I often over analyze myself and my actions and become very critical of myself.  I turn to this site for encouragement, not discouragement.

[Harri]

Hi Furbaby Mom. 

She is pushing at your request re your business social media.  Probably trying to find a way to connect after your meeting.  Very Annoying and not really surprising (unfortunately). 

It may be time for a reminder that you do not want to engage her online in any way.  Can you delete her messages to enforce your boundary?  I am not sure what else can be done.  Unfortunately it does not sound like she is going to follow your requests.  Can you think of any other action you can take other than reminding her of your wishes and deleting her messages?

[Furbaby Mom]

Hey Harri,
Thanks for your kind words and your support. 

It's funny because I have now been involved with her for about 5 years and despite being on alert, little things always tend to surprise me a little.  I guess that is just the nature of this disorder.

I am choosing right now to ignore it.  She didn't say anything harmful (hopefully won't) so I am going to let it go.  I think my original post was written more from a place of shock because it really does feel like we give her an inch and she wants to take a mile.

Thanks!

[Harri]

i understand what you mean when you talk about feeling shocked.  Time after time, I would forget what i knew and who i was dealing with only to be reminded in the most startling ways!  Grrrr... .  Some people will push as far as they can and not always intentionally, but it is still shocking.

One thing to note:  the best times to post is when we are feeling okay or even good as it allows us to work on problem solving without being in crisis mode (no matter how mild).

So, with that in mind  do you want to talk about possible actions you can take at your end should she 'forget' the rules again?  <rolly eyeball emoji here>

[Furbaby Mom]

You are right!

My husband and I talked about how if there is another rule "push" or something that makes us feel uncomfortable, he will talk to her privately.  She responds really well to him typically (he is usually the "hero" in her narrative where I am the "evil one".  She does at times rage toward him, but he is more equipped to handle it/not let it hurt him as much mostly because he is more used to it. 

For me, because in my relationship with her I am working on standing up for myself, I would simply repeat what we had talked about before.  I would encourage her to recall our conversation about what it will take for us to have a healthy relationship together.  I really stressed with her during that conversation the value of our relationship being healthy and she seemed to understand that, so I may tie that back to her behavior now.  I know how to tread lightly with her most of the time. 

It takes so much work with her and so much repetition.  I wonder if that will ever not be the case... .

 

[Harri]

Hi again, and sorry for the delay.

I think having your husband talk with her is a good idea as this pattern has worked well in the past.  It must be very hard for you to deal with SIL having never really experienced such a personality before your marriage (I assume).  I think I would find it as bewildering as I do more 'normal' interactions sometimes  if I weren't so used to dysfunction.

It will continue to take work and repetition I am afraid, but it should still get easier over time.  Learn what you can about the disorder to depersonalize her behaviors and get really good at understanding and working with boundaries as it will help you with setting appropriate expectations.

Good to chat with you Furbaby Mom