When H dysregulates and rages, he does not care who hears

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Lack of empathy is a feature of both BPD and NPD.  I have been married to uBPD/uNPD H for 20 years.

When H dysregulates and rages (which he does only in the home), he does not care who hears.  He has said so verbatim.  He does not do it in front of his adult children as this would ruin the "perfect husband" image that he wishes to project to them.

When my elderly mother was dying and living in our home (she had mild dementia and cancer), H raged at me about something that was deemed my fault.  My mother was usually asleep in a bedroom, but she was awakened by the shouting and thought my husband was angry that we had taken her in.  She started weeping.  My H had made a dying old woman cry.

Then there was the time we had an elderly yellow lab who was dying, crippled and deaf.  One night, the dog had soiled himself on his bed, and shifting around trying to find a dry spot .  H got up from our sleep, raging at the dog.  He yanked the dog's bed out from underneath him, dumping the dog on the floor.  The look of hurt, fear and confusion on the dog's face is something I will take to my grave.

Last week, a similar instance happened.   H was raging out of proportion to a circumstance (rush-hour traffic, etc.) and flung open the garage door, shouting at me.   We are fostering a former stray dog to live with our other dogs, and the raging and slamming of the door startled them while they were eating, esp. the one who was a stray.  That dog had lived on the streets, gave birth to a litter of puppies, and was partially blind.

H raged, "When I am mad, everyone is going to suffer!"  Again, he would never do this in front of his adult children.

H 's FOO is a textbook of dysfunction.  H was raised in poverty by uNPD F and en_M.  H's F left a successful career in the military to work low-end jobs in order to hunt and fish.  A good portion of the F's earnings went to hunting and fishing gear; in over 60 years of marriage, H's father did not buy his M a single piece of fine jewellery and she died with only the wedding ring from the day she was married.  When H left high school, he joined the military to get away from his father.  

Although H knows (and certainly on an unconscious level) his father is NPD, he cannot help himself when he dysregulates when I am concerned.  OTOH, his own children (raised by H xW) abused him emotionally (esp. emotional blackmail) until they learned he would give them money for buttering him up with syrupy talk.  One of his children is an alcoholic and takes drugs; another made a suicide attempt.

Any thoughts on this?  I use SET and don't JADE, and things are OK for awhile, then something will trigger H and he will dysregulate.  H has a very shallow sense of self, and usually defines himself by his circle of friends and children, buying cars they buy, buying household items they use, etc.  

[AskingWhy]

Lack of empathy is a feature of both BPD and NPD.  I have been married to uBPD/uNPD H for 20 years.

When H dysregulates and rages (which he does only in the home), he does not care who hears.  He has said so verbatim.  He does not do it in front of his adult children as this would ruin the "perfect husband" image that he wishes to project to them.

When my elderly mother was dying and living in our home (she had mild dementia and cancer), H raged at me about something that was deemed my fault.  My mother was usually asleep in a bedroom, but she was awakened by the shouting and thought my husband was angry that we had taken her in.  She started weeping.  My H had made a dying old woman cry.

Then there was the time we had an elderly yellow lab who was dying, crippled and deaf.  One night, the dog had soiled himself on his bed, and shifting around trying to find a dry spot .  H got up from our sleep, raging at the dog.  He yanked the dog's bed out from underneath him, dumping the dog on the floor.  The look of hurt, fear and confusion on the dog's face is something I will take to my grave.

Last week, a similar instance happened.   H was raging out of proportion to a circumstance (rush-hour traffic, etc.) and flung open the garage door, shouting at me.   We are fostering a former stray dog to live with our other dogs, and the raging and slamming of the door startled them while they were eating, esp. the one who was a stray.  That dog had lived on the streets, gave birth to a litter of puppies, and was partially blind.

H raged, "When I am mad, everyone is going to suffer!"  Again, he would never do this in front of his adult children.

H 's FOO is a textbook of dysfunction.  H was raised in poverty by uNPD F and en_M.  H's F left a successful career in the military to work low-end jobs in order to hunt and fish.  A good portion of the F's earnings went to hunting and fishing gear; in over 60 years of marriage, H's father did not buy his M a single piece of fine jewellery and she died with only the wedding ring from the day she was married.  When H left high school, he joined the military to get away from his father.  

Although H knows (and certainly on an unconscious level) his father is NPD, he cannot help himself when he dysregulates when I am concerned.  OTOH, his own children (raised by H xW) abused him emotionally (esp. emotional blackmail) until they learned he would give them money for buttering him up with syrupy talk.  One of his children is an alcoholic and takes drugs; another made a suicide attempt.

Any thoughts on this?  I use SET and don't JADE, and things are OK for awhile, then something will trigger H and he will dysregulate.  H has a very shallow sense of self, and usually defines himself by his circle of friends and children, buying cars they buy, buying household items they use, etc.  

[valet]

Hey AskingWhy, how does his behavior in these difficult moments make you feel? And how do you deal with it in the marriage?

You're on the conflicted board right now. Are you having serious doubts about the relationship moving forward?

[AskingWhy]

Hey AskingWhy, how does his behavior in these difficult moments make you feel? And how do you deal with it in the marriage?

You're on the conflicted board right now. Are you having serious doubts about the relationship moving forward?

Thank you for the reply. How do I feel when he rages?  I want to leave the marriage.  I don't deserve this and my pets certainly don't.

The rages have been going on starting the year we were married.  I didn't know what it was, and I thought it was something I did.  After 20 years of this, I am getting tired of it.  I have sought the advice of a family attorney to find out my rights in the even either one of us files for divorce.  I am conflicted, to be sure.

My friends say he will never leave me as he gets his emotional "fix" from these dramatic episodes of dysregulation and my tolerating them. He likes to terrify me with frequent divorce threats.  These threats, I know now, are hollow as I have called his bluff.  I am very hurt when he rages, but know now that this is the NPD/BPD at work.  I used to be devastated when he threatened to divorce me.  Now when he rages, I calmly tell him just how his mother would disapprove of the rages.  His mother died a few years back, and he was very bonded to his mother, esp. for her being married to his NPD father.  H would also project onto me whenever his adult children mistreated him.  H is very enmeshed with several of his children.

I have read of people leaving a BPD or NPD spouse after 30 years, so I know there is hope for me after I leave. 

There will be progress, the a trigger will cause him to dysregulate and rage.  I don't like his scaring the pets, as they will associate fear with eating.

[pearlsw]

Hi AskingWhy,

Nice to see you around, I always learn so much from your posts, sorry you are having a hard time!

I wanted to ask... .you are starting to look into leaving, you've taken a lot of this over the years... .It's fine for awhile and then gets extremely difficult again. It broke my heart when you mentioned the pain and fear that even the pets are experiencing. I imagine that pushes things to a point of no return - your witnessing this.

May I ask, what do think will happen next? Do you have any sense of how he'd take the news if you move towards ending things?

wishing you happiness, pearl.

[BeagleGirl]

 He does not do it in front of his adult children as this would ruin the "perfect husband" image that he wishes to project to them.

H raged, "When I am mad, everyone is going to suffer!"  Again, he would never do this in front of his adult children.

he cannot help himself when he dysregulates when I am concerned.  

My therapist recommended that I read a book titled “Why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft. It’s written to address some of the myths about abusers. I haven’t quite figured out how BPD fits into my dBPDstbxh’s abusive behavior patterns, but reading that book opened my eyes in one specific area that makes the phrases I highlighted above stand out.

The book addresses the myth “He can’t help himself when he’s angry”. It points out that an abuser who is prone to breaking things “in a fit of anger” almost never breaks items that THEY value. They break items valued by the person they are trying to control. They exhibit an ability, even in their “uncontrollable” anger, to be judicious in how they express it. Similarly, they show an ability to control when and in front of whom they “lose control” of their anger.

You seem to understand what uBPD/NPDh gets out of NOT losing it in front of his adult children. I’m wondering if it would help to understand what he gets out of his outbursts in front of you. Do you think he can’t control himself?  Do you think he feels entitled to or rewarded by acting out of anger around you?

BeagleGirl

[AskingWhy]

pearlsw and BeagleGirl, thank you for the replies.

I am conflicted and have been for some time.  My feelings for my husband are lessening by very, very slow degrees as time goes on.  Maybe one day, I will wake up and say, "I don't need this in my life drama any more."

@BeagleGirl, the Lundy Bancroft book is excellent!  It is not a discussion of BPD or NPD, but a general discussion of abuse and abusers.  There is also the companion book by Bancroft, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?"   In this book, he allows the reader to assess whether or not the abuser is capable of change, and whether or not the partner should leave.

It appears my uBPD/uNPD H does not have the introspection to think he is part of the problem.  He is always blaming others.  He takes credit for not doing the things he should not have done in the first place.  For instance, he used to call me the worst names that a man should never call a wife or any woman.  He now boasts, "I don't call you those names anymore," as though it's something he is proud of, not feeling remorse that those things were ever said.  At some very rare times, he can glimpse that his FOO causes some of his disordered thinking.  :)eep down inside, I suspect he feels an enormous amount of shame over his poverty, his parents, and his divorce--and the silly thing is that he projects his shame and rage onto me, the person who had the most understanding of him with the potential for compassion.

And you are right about the "uncontrolled" rage episodes.  Bancroft discusses how some men who have abused spouses don't hit their wives in the face, instead punching arms and legs or the torso.  The excuse, "She made me do it!" is often given to doctors and law enforcement staff.  Sadly, police think abuse is something couples need to "talk over" and don't see the underlying psychological mechanisms at work.

That said, my H CAN indeed control himself.  He chooses not to in my presence.  The house is filled with broken door handles, patched-up drywall to cover punched holes and other damage.  Most of this is, I suspect, projection over the way his father treated his mother, and his rage towards his xW for her adultery, divorce and taking custody of the children.  (xW used much of the child support money on herself and her new husband and did not spend it on the children.)  Nonetheless, the rages toward me are not excusable in any way, shape or form.

Bancroft discusses how abusers are often perceived to be very nice people by those outside the immediate family.  They are the nice ones who help elderly neighbors move furniture, etc. and co-workers think they are congenial, "good" people.

This aligns with the notion of the "transparent borderline," the ones who are often highly intelligent and functional in the workplace.  It's at home and in close personal relationships that pwBPD become unhinged and dysregulate.

When I mentioned that I might leave him recently (to see how he would respond), he agonized for hours while I was running errands, pondering the very real possibility of my leaving him.  He was clearly distressed when I returned.  I laughed at him and said that he is always making divorce threats and exploding, so he should not make a big deal out of it.  (The shoe on the other foot, so to speak.)

The divorce threats have been going on for most of our marriage, and he makes a big show of it:  searching for family law attorneys, telling me he is saving his personal income in preparation of leaving me, telling me he won't remodel the home because it will be sold when we divorce, etc.  I have never been served papers.

I laughed at him in a recent argument when he threatened divorce, and I said, "If you are so unhappy with me, then go ahead and have me served."

I try to be compassionate knowing his childhood was horrible, but I sometimes get fed up and it's hard to S.E.T.  I know about his selfish father and the poverty, but I can't allow myself to be his punching bag when he starts feeling insecure about himself.

[Skip]

I am conflicted and have been for some time.  My feelings for my husband are lessening by very, very slow degrees as time goes on.  Maybe one day, I will wake up and say, "I don't need this in my life drama any more."

Why are you staying?  It sounds like you both have tossed in towel. What is holding you back from closing this down?

[AskingWhy]

Why are you staying?  It sounds like you both have tossed in towel. What is holding you back from closing this down?

Skip, maybe deep down inside--just as many of us on this site--I still love the person he presented himself as in the beginning at the time of the "love bombing."

Maybe the love is still there and not totally gone, just like a dying ember.  Sometimes I see glimpses of empathy in my H, and then I will see right afterward his spiraling into dysregulation.  It's hard to leave a man who is both Jekyll and Hyde.

[Skip]

Skip, maybe deep down inside--just as many of us on this site--I still love the person he presented himself as in the beginning at the time of the "love bombing."

Maybe the love is still there and not totally gone, just like a dying ember.  Sometimes I see glimpses of empathy in my H, and then I will see right afterward his spiraling into dysregulation.  It's hard to leave a man who is both Jekyll and Hyde.

I understand that. 

I think when a relationship is not working toward resolution, it is dying from the inside out.

If you still love him... .you might want to change your approach.

Before things can get better, we must stop making them worse.

[juju2]

I second what Skip said.

And when i get it that these are the good old days, when i can be with that, i can show up as a caring, loving, partner.  I dont have to let ego/pride run amok.

j

[AskingWhy]

I am trying so hard to keep this marriage together.

I have done this for more than 20 years and I am getting worn out.  The splitting of H is taking its toll on me.  I have anxiety and depression just coping.

I am a shadow of my former self.  I used to be outgoing, laughing and loving life.  Now it often seems that I am catering to the whims of H depending on whether he is splitting or not.  I feel I will always be a distant second place in regards to his adult children.  My self-esteem is very very low.  If H is happy, he is purring like a kitten.  If he is unhappy for whatever reason (children don't call him, they forget his birthday, bad day at work, etc.) he will rage at me, break things, order me around and threaten to divorce me. 

I read somewhere a woman who noted the abuses she endured from day to day.  Then one day, something apparently innocuous happened.  Her H threw away a stack of magazines she had not read without asking her.  It was after this incident that she decided to divorce her husband.

I think it's like the straw that breaks the camel's back.  A relationship dies by degrees, and then one day you wake up and you find you no longer want a relationship with this person. You are sick and tired of trying over and over to make things work, only to find out your partner is projecting his rage onto you for something you didn't do.  (I know H's parents and children are sources of disappointment for him.  His F is uNPD.  The children of H often ignore him, only calling him when they want money.  The children go silent after they get the money, and then H turns his rage and disappointment onto me.)