Always bridging the gap with BPD SO

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm curious if anyone else has encountered this in their previous relationship with a BPD SO.  In processing things as I detach from my uBPD wife, I came to realize something.  Whenever there was a conflict or argument, I was always the one who had to eventually take the first step to try to communicate and resolve the issues.  Without fail, every single time.  She never initiated any discussion or attempt to resolve.  She would go silent, avoid and become passive-aggressive.  And when I did make an attempt to bridge the gap and initiate resolution, it always ended up in an utterly frustrating exercise of deflection, gaslighting, button pushing, histrionically bringing up anything I had ever done in the past, including things already resolved, to derail the conversation away from the subject that needed to be discussed and resolved.  It literally was like being a steel ball inside of a pinball machine, with the conversation bouncing between rails, bumpers and spinners.  And I would wind up being blamed, belittled and more often than not, would wind up so exasperated and frustrated that I would become intense and raise my voice, which of course, she used against me in the conversation as well.  Nothing ever got resolved.  She rarely ever, if ever, took responsibility for trampling my boundaries and things she had done to hurt me.  And, if she ever did apologize, it was a very shallow, weak "I'm sorry for everything", not the 4 stages of ownership required to resolve an heal from conflict.  And it resulted in years and years of piled-on, unresolved pain that caused me to think I deserved to be treated like that.  And lots of built-up resentment inside of me that I stuffed and accepted.  If you don't take out the trash, so to speak, and resolve issues, the garbage dump in the relationship becomes a festering, stinking, toxic cesspool.

And when it came to discards/recycles, except for 1 occasion out of countless discards, I was always the one who made contact with her first to initiate a recycle.  The only time she made contact with me first was after a 3 month period where I had decided to detach and made no contact with her and she started to think that I was moving on with someone else (which I wasn't... .I was just trying to heal and detach).  That was the only time she initiated contact for a recycle. 
 

[PianoDood]

I'm curious if anyone else has encountered this in their previous relationship with a BPD SO.  In processing things as I detach from my uBPD wife, I came to realize something.  Whenever there was a conflict or argument, I was always the one who had to eventually take the first step to try to communicate and resolve the issues.  Without fail, every single time.  She never initiated any discussion or attempt to resolve.  She would go silent, avoid and become passive-aggressive.  And when I did make an attempt to bridge the gap and initiate resolution, it always ended up in an utterly frustrating exercise of deflection, gaslighting, button pushing, histrionically bringing up anything I had ever done in the past, including things already resolved, to derail the conversation away from the subject that needed to be discussed and resolved.  It literally was like being a steel ball inside of a pinball machine, with the conversation bouncing between rails, bumpers and spinners.  And I would wind up being blamed, belittled and more often than not, would wind up so exasperated and frustrated that I would become intense and raise my voice, which of course, she used against me in the conversation as well.  Nothing ever got resolved.  She rarely ever, if ever, took responsibility for trampling my boundaries and things she had done to hurt me.  And, if she ever did apologize, it was a very shallow, weak "I'm sorry for everything", not the 4 stages of ownership required to resolve an heal from conflict.  And it resulted in years and years of piled-on, unresolved pain that caused me to think I deserved to be treated like that.  And lots of built-up resentment inside of me that I stuffed and accepted.  If you don't take out the trash, so to speak, and resolve issues, the garbage dump in the relationship becomes a festering, stinking, toxic cesspool.

And when it came to discards/recycles, except for 1 occasion out of countless discards, I was always the one who made contact with her first to initiate a recycle.  The only time she made contact with me first was after a 3 month period where I had decided to detach and made no contact with her and she started to think that I was moving on with someone else (which I wasn't... .I was just trying to heal and detach).  That was the only time she initiated contact for a recycle. 
 

[JNChell]

PianoDood, I could’ve written that about my experience! I totally relate.

[lighthouse9]

Wow- this was a breath of affirming fresh air this morning. I can relate 100%, and being very new to this detachment process (I'm not even sure if I am detaching 100% yet), I've started to see some of these more subtle not ok things as a reflect back.

I come from a family that does conflict. I won't say we do it well, but we do not shy away from it. Since leaving my FOO for college a long time ago, I worked really hard to learn about conflict and healthy ways to go about it. I picked up some good stuff from the non violent communication world, learned some anger management, studied up on codependency, etc etc. I was raised on "if I'm not yelling at you, then you know I don't care" aka be grateful I'm yelling. Not ideal, but definitely not conflict averse. Some of that is cultural, so I'm ok with letting it slide from time to time.

With my STBXw, I often heard "you just need something to be wrong, don't you?" or "do normal couples talk about stuff this much? No one I know does this." Now, mind you, very few of her friends were in healthy relationships and she surrounded herself with enablers. Thus, no wonder she didn't know anyone who talked through things. In a more recent post-break up convo, I made a comment to the effect of "I felt like I was always responsible for the health of this marriage" to which she said (in a moment of self-pity, I think you're right I have BPD and I'm a victim) "I don't think I understood that a marriage was something you had to be responsible for." I was floored.

In my reflecting back, I've seen it exactly as you described. Me bringing up conflict - no matter how small or big. Me checking in. Me wanting to have the bigger conversations, about our future goals. Me looking for the marriage counselor. Me finding our housing, setting up cable, meeting our neighbors, lining up people to watch the animals when we'd go out of town. Not that these are conflict things, but basically the marriage was mine to manage. My parents brought this up when things went south - that they always felt like I was the one responsible for everything. I've talked to my therapist about this (she's at a DBT clinic and primarily works with folks with BPD or their family members), and she said it's ok to be the one that does things when it causes too much distress for the other person in a marriage. That makes sense. Caveat here - you can't do everything. There were many things my STBXw did do and did really well for us. However, conflict is one of those things you have to share - even if one person is the one to typically press pause and initiate taking the pulse of a marriage.

I heard some of the same things you mentioned and they still infuriate me: I'm sorry for everything, I'm sorry you even met me, I'm sorry for hurting you. This last one gets me the most. It wasn't that she was truly sorry for hurting me - she was sorry that she had to deal with the distress of hurting me. Hurting someone sucks. We've all done it and will continue to do it to some extent. We have to sit with those emotions of guilt or whatever. I never heard her guilt though, just her shame - and boy is shame a selfish emotion. Shame says "this is who I am" and is a victim mentality. It blames you for expecting something different or for having boundaries that were crossed.

This is what killed me in our split. I kept saying "I can forgive you" or "I do forgive you" for specific things. But that forgiveness was more for me, and she never asked for it. Even when making reparations for destroying our life together, I've had to be the one to think about what I need financially or otherwise and specifically ask for it. Once again, I'm in charge of the conflict. I can tell you one thing, this is the last time. Even in the magical world where she gets help and we reconcile, I am no longer going to be the keeper of conflict. I've done too much work in my life to unlearn some of the adversarial tactics of my family to have to always be the one to confront, discuss, plan, decide, etc. I so want to give up full responsibility for that role in my next relationship - with her or anyone else.

[stixx44]

Your story is also my story.  Amazing how this behavior is so strikingly similar in so many cases.

Sorry you have to go through this. 

[southside420]

Your story is my story as well. When I left my ex initially, I went through a period where I blamed myself for the mistakes I made towards the end of the relationship. Once I started going to therapy, I began to realize all those mistakes I made were made during situations SHE created. She'd get upset and then shut down, and I'd end up having to do crisis control, and this would be a never-ending thing. It happened multiple times a week each time I did anything that she did not approve of. All of the issues and the reason I ultimately left were due to her outbursts, erratic behavior, and impossible situations she'd create.

To this day, despite all her begging to take me back, she has not recognized the gravity of her actions and refuses to apologize unless I also admit I was wrong and at fault for all of the issues. She blames me friends and family for getting in our way and thinks we'd still be together if it weren't for them. She'll never get it. I knew that so I walked away, as hard as it has been.

[lighthouse9]

Once I started going to therapy, I began to realize all those mistakes I made were made during situations SHE created.

SAME. Ugh. For example, when I started to pick up on the affair and she denied it vehemently, I felt like I was going crazy. I got so upset one night and broke the no talking about heavy stuff before bed rule, which didn't end well. After we resolved to stop talking about it, I rolled over in bed and felt like I was going to cry, so I went into the bathroom (that had the fan on for white noise) and let myself cry, thinking the fan would drown out any noise. She burst through the bathroom door and came running at me, then stopped before me and screamed at me for "faking it for attention" and trying to get her to come comfort me, then told me to cry in the shower like everyone else. I was absolutely shocked and it shocked her, too. I was also terrified. Nothing will get you to stop feeling your emotions for yourself like being scared to have them and being told you're not supposed to show them.

She apologized the next day, and I apologized for breaking the no talking about heavy stuff before bed rule, but I have a different view of that night now. She was gaslighting me hardcore and the no talking rule was meant to keep me from confronting her. At that point, we had resolved to only talk about things in 15 minute increments because she got too distressed by talking about things, and I literally set a timer for our talks to reassure her that I could support her. But, 15 minutes was never enough to resolve anything and anything we talked about either didn't get acted upon or she continued to lie to me in those 15 minutes. The night I brought things up in bed was because I couldn't take it anymore - but I was wrong for breaking a rule.

What you said just struck a chord - I made a mistake in a situation she created. I wish I would have had the strength then to know that and to set boundaries.

[southside420]

SAME. Ugh. For example, when I started to pick up on the affair and she denied it vehemently, I felt like I was going crazy. I got so upset one night and broke the no talking about heavy stuff before bed rule, which didn't end well. After we resolved to stop talking about it, I rolled over in bed and felt like I was going to cry, so I went into the bathroom (that had the fan on for white noise) and let myself cry, thinking the fan would drown out any noise. She burst through the bathroom door and came running at me, then stopped before me and screamed at me for "faking it for attention" and trying to get her to come comfort me, then told me to cry in the shower like everyone else. I was absolutely shocked and it shocked her, too. I was also terrified. Nothing will get you to stop feeling your emotions for yourself like being scared to have them and being told you're not supposed to show them.

She apologized the next day, and I apologized for breaking the no talking about heavy stuff before bed rule, but I have a different view of that night now. She was gaslighting me hardcore and the no talking rule was meant to keep me from confronting her. At that point, we had resolved to only talk about things in 15 minute increments because she got too distressed by talking about things, and I literally set a timer for our talks to reassure her that I could support her. But, 15 minutes was never enough to resolve anything and anything we talked about either didn't get acted upon or she continued to lie to me in those 15 minutes. The night I brought things up in bed was because I couldn't take it anymore - but I was wrong for breaking a rule.

What you said just struck a chord - I made a mistake in a situation she created. I wish I would have had the strength then to know that and to set boundaries.

As far as I know, I never had cheating beyond her making out one time, but even then I did not set boundaries and press her. She'd accuse me of cheating constantly and was convinced I was even when I showed her proof I wasn't.

But we fought over really small things like being 2 minutes late to leave for a trip or HER changing plans before we were to do something and expecting me to drop everything and follow her lead. She'd also bring up single instances in the past to justify her behavior for multiple issues. She also blamed my family and friends for being against her after all the crazy things she did, and blamed me for leaving her when I chose to leave her when she gave me an ultimatum to either force her down my support system's throat rather than being patient or leave her. I found myself beginning to think all of these things were my fault because I handled them poorly and wondered "what if " I had just continued to keep dating her despite all the red flags. But SHE made those things massive issues and my reaction was not a fault I need to apologize for. My family would never have turned against her if they hadn't seen and heard about all the things she was doing to me. If she had never made them an issue or behaved that way, we'd never have fought and thus I'd never make a mistake. But she isn't normal and has a disorder, so I keep telling myself that.

The last fight we had before I left was when she threatened suicide if I didn't come over to see her. Not wanting to let her manipulate me, I said no and did not call in her suicide attempt (I had in the past and she was bluffing), and she blamed me for leaving her to die. For a while, I almost felt like I was at fault for not and that she could have almost died that night, but then I realized SHE took the pills, SHE put herself in that situation, and SHE was using it to manipulate me to get what she wanted. I was not responsible for calling that attempt in nor saving her that night. It took me a while to get here, but now I see it.

[PianoDood]

Wow.  This board has been a wonderful find for me.  It has helped affirm so many things that always made me feel like I was crazy or that I had wrong or invalid perspectives on things.  

I was raised in a family where we TALKED THROUGH things.  Even major conflicts (and there were very few of those) were not avoided or swept under the rug.  There was very little yelling during conflicts in my family, although there was a lot of emotion.  My upbringing was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.  It has given me some issues with codependency.  My mother tended to be the sacrificial waif while my father was more dominant.  But, I NEVER saw him abuse my mother physically or brow beat her emotionally.  I come by my "sacrificial, rescuing empath" tendency naturally.  And, what I have found is this- the more I took responsibility for my core issues and sought therapy, the more healthy I became mentally and emotionally, the more I broke away from enmeshment kinds of thinking with my uBPD wife, the more conflict arose in our relationship and the more toxic the relationship became.  I've come to realize this was due to the fact that I was no longer willing to let my boundaries be trampled, I became more aware that my perspectives were actually (for the most part) very sound and level-headed.  I was being gaslighted and blamed.  And it was making me question myself.  I attempted to get my uBPD wife to attend both couples therapy and individual therapy with an excellent therapist, but, she would always find a way to reject the idea or even belittle a therapist she didn't know to discredit the effort.  The one time we did go to therapy together, she attended 3 sessions, refused to put into practice the practical exercises suggested for us by the therapist and eventually stating that the therapy was a "waste of time" and the practical exercises were "stupid and pointless", without ever actually putting them into practice.  

But, nonetheless, even though I am doing much better detaching, day by day, I still have a constant dull ache inside of me for her.  This kind of toxic, unequal and traumatic relationship creates such a dysfunctional bond within the non-BPD.  But now, instead of pining over her, I ask myself why I still feel that dull ache.  I ask myself why I still hurt.  I look inside of me to figure out what brokenness in me is causing me to remain emotionally hungry for a relationship that was so unhealthy for me and to a woman who, quite literally, emotionally and mentally abused me repeatedly for years.  That's my responsibility.  That's my healing.  And I know it will get better with time.  And I know I deserve better.

When it came to conflict with my uBPD wife, (H) there was nothing but chaos and drama.  It was almost as if she was trying to make it so unpalatable to try to communicate and resolve that I would just stop doing it and avoid trying to deal with issues altogether, allowing her to protect herself and allowing any issues she created to be neatly swept under the rug.  The therapist I was seeing a year ago to deal with my own issues related to a discard she did almost a year to the day of this final discard in January, did two wonderful things for me.  She got me to recognize and address my own codependency issues and, she literally stopped me in the middle of a session once and asked me, "does your wife know how broken she is?"  Not to blame her fully, but it did open my eyes to the fact that 85% or more of the issues, drama, chaos and toxicity in our relationship was being generated by her, not me.  She would create conflicts by trampling boundaries, destroying trust, saying inappropriate and hurtful things that literally  made me think, "why in God's name would you ever say something like that to your husband?"  Things like, "I get plenty of attention from guys at work"... .yet call me jealous for questioning her.  Or, during a period of a month where I was unemployed and she was having to cover expenses I normally covered, "My whole family thinks you're a loser."  Or, after returning home from a court date for her eldest son who is charged with serious federal crimes, "J (her ex-boyfriend and father of her children who tried to kill her 12 years ago) asked me if I was ready to get back together with him again while we were sitting in the courtroom today."  I would just look at her and wrinkle my brow and wonder why you would ever say things like that to your spouse.  It was constant imbalance.  I never really knew where I stood with her, even when things appeared to be going well and on a stable course, because relationship history had taught me that it was just a matter of time before something would happen.  I just never knew what that something would be or when that something would happen.  My therapist even told me on  more than one occasion that she believed I had developed anxiety and PTSD-like emotional symptoms because I was always on edge waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Even today, as I drove to meet with a customer for work, I passed a flower shop that I had regularly ordered flowers from for my wife and the thought of sending her a flower arrangement to her work crossed my mind.  Isn't that crazy?  After being discarded without warning, when I was unemployed 2 months ago, in a financial crisis where I was literally $1,500 in the hole and facing homelessness, blamed for the discard and called demeaning names and cut off from all communication from her after she discarded... .the thought crossed my mind to send this woman flowers.  Of course, I was immediately REPULSED by the thought.  My rational self immediately said, "ARE YOU CRAZY?  What is WRONG inside of you that you would even THINK such a thing?"  I didn't shame myself long.  I understand now what I'm dealing with inside.  It's all part of the enmeshment and idealization.  And it's all a part of the process of letting go, detaching and healing myself.  

And the reason I actually mentioned her real first name is because I read the ":)r. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" article on the site and it was so accurate in describing her behavior.  Early in the relationship when we were first dating and I began to see the abrupt emotional swings in her behavior, especially during times of conflict, I labeled her behavior "Heidi mode" when she would go dark and begin to deflect, gaslight, stonewall, blame, push buttons and do the "pinball machine" form of conflict avoidance.  But, later in the relationship, I started to call it ":)r. Jekyll and Miss H".  Probably inappropriate, but very accurate, nonetheless.

And I feel for every one of you who is dealing with a similar situation with a BPD SO.  It is the most unholy, painful experience.  

[PianoDood]

Another dominant theme in our relationship was the, "what I do and say in reaction to hurtful and damaging things you do or say are ALWAYS far worse than what you originally did that caused the reaction in the first place" theme.  She would do or say something so hurtful and damaging and if I reacted in a way she could even remotely label as inappropriate or angry, she would then be 100% focused on what I said and did in reaction to what she had originally done to hurt me.  It was her way of always twisting focus on me and away from her.  Maddening.  Crazy-making.

[southside420]

Another dominant theme in our relationship was the, "what I do and say in reaction to hurtful and damaging things you do or say are ALWAYS far worse than what you originally did that caused the reaction in the first place" theme.  She would do or say something so hurtful and damaging and if I reacted in a way she could even remotely label as inappropriate or angry, she would then be 100% focused on what I said and did in reaction to what she had originally done to hurt me.  It was her way of always twisting focus on me and away from her.  Maddening.  Crazy-making.

It's like we lived the same life. My ex and I went to therapy together as well to work on "communication." The third session in, she gets up and walks out mid-session, claiming that the therapist and I ganged up on her and she was in front of a firing squad, and I finally get my wish to leave her. I wish I had left her then. Later on, the therapist told me she could tell in our interactions how my ex would believe things that simply were not true and would never change her mind.

And the above quote sounds exactly like me. I spoke to my ex two weeks ago when she asked me to get back together. I told her the things she did to me after I left were horrible and I did not want to go back into that again, and she needed to leave me alone and move on. Her response was "the things you did to me were far worse than anything I did to you" - referring to her claim I left her to die when she took a suicide threat too far trying to get me to see her. They are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions and apologize.

[Numbers321]

piano > I was always the one who had to eventually take the first step to try to communicate and resolve the issues.  Without fail, every single time.  She never initiated any discussion or attempt to resolve.

This. The situation makes me think of Zeno's paradox. Every time I went half way towards her position there was still another half to go. Her position never moved but I ended up bridging half the remaining gap over and over. This went on for years. Her telling me it's over as her needs weren't met and me offering some concession. Feel like a chump about it now, but better owning that than rationalising it.

Like Dua Lipa, I got new rules. I'm not offering concessions until she does too. I just need to know if I'm dealing with a negotiation or a mugging.


lighthouse > I often heard "you just need something to be wrong, don't you?"

Eek. This is a gaslight that's very hard to resolve. There are two possible worlds: your version is correct or theirs is. If you are right then there really is something wrong on a regular basis. If they are right, you've got a hair trigger problem. If you had a trusted outside observer you could get them to weigh in on who starts the issues. But we don't generally have such an observer.

So I figured it comes down to paying very close attention to how situations evolve and being honest with myself about who said what and how. Being my own outside observer. I'll never get her to validate my perception of things when it differs from hers. It's just not going to happen. So I need to build up trust in myself and increase the objectivity of my own memory. 


southside > "I began to realize all those mistakes I made were made during situations SHE created."

I'll third this sentiment. For example, it's been push/pull on certain topics until I lose patience and get annoyed about it. Then I'm in the wrong as she was 'just trying to talk'. It's driven me up the wall. I know from the outside her version sounds plausible. I'm just another disinterested husband who won't help work out a solution to the topic. That plausibility has caused me to question myself. Except from my experience I can't do anything right so I've limited my interactions with her to avoid stepping on landmines. This itself is a problem now... .the web of cause and effect stretches back years and its hard to see who the 'first cause' was - but I know day to day now it's not me.