I shouldn’t be posting right now, as I’m absolutely fuming.

[Dogdays]

How was it for people with BPD before western psychiatry neatly put everything  into little dsm boxes and said that these ‘maladjusted traits’ and behaviours were an illness? Were people simply seen as selfish and horrible in those days? Were they just manipulative, lazy and self serving back then? I  shouldn’t be posting right now, as I’m absolutely fuming. (I think this outburst is my therapy!)

It seems to me that many of the behaviours are not only self serving, but fairly useful and adaptive. Why work or study or do stuff that’s hard if someone else will do it all for you. She’d probably have me go to the bathroom for her if she could, then go to a restaurant and party. Who cares about others needs and happiness, If there are no consequences to actions. If you will always be safe and comfortable? Why bother? Does BPD exist in societies where relinquishing responsibilities means that you don’t eat or that you freeze to death? I’m finding it very difficult at the moment to not see immediate gratification pleasure seeking as a choice. Of course it is. I’m only ever doing pleasure, and nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Don’t tell me about the 9 characteristics of the illness please. I know them inside out. These wide and vague things that seem to lay the blame at my door one way or another. It’s not enough to carry everything, but you are somehow the cause. I don’t think I’m willing to accept it. You must all be saints to sacrifice forever and ever to your adult children. It seems to me at the moment that that the fear of abandonment is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy. I think I might decide to be mentally ill myself. Its looking like a good choice. You opt out of any hard bits and reap all the good bits. No worries, I’ll carry it all while berating myself for some unknown thing. As for distress intolerance, I’m not sure about my own amyglia size, but I’m pretty sure it’s getting smaller.  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Arrrgh]

"You must all be saints to sacrifice forever and ever to your adult children."  Yeah, I can relate. 

[Lollypop]

Hi dogdays  

You must all be saints to sacrifice forever and ever to your adult children

I’m not a saint. I don’t sacrifice. I live my life while my son27 learns how to live his.

My son did not want to grow up. Instead of passing the responsibility for himself to him I kept interfering and trying to fix his problems.  I know better now. I do not give him money - simples. I focus on our core relationship and we’ve found a way to be together relaxed and natural. Yes, I did the work and it was hard but I did it as much for myself as the rest of my family.

We found a way. This forum got me there.

I get what your saying. I get your vent.

LP

[please]

oh dogdays,
I hear you. This is not the life I wanted. I am angry at my D. It is hard to be compassionate about her fears etc. when three years ago she threatened to strangle me, told me I was F****ing weak. Told me to call children's services on myself as I was a bad mom. etc... .I thought at this time in my life, it would not necessarily be easier, but she would grow up a bit and take care of herself.
I am tired of being blamed too by her "team" her school studies -she is in psychology and that is what they teach them always the fault of the mom.

I have hoped university (she is doing well and enjoys it) and living on her own with roommates would help her appreciate what she has here. But alas, NO.

I have guilt about my anger. I like it when she is not here. I have been traumatised so I become less effective as a mom to my other kids. The other kids have and will suffer. Will they have significant mental health issues, seeing their older sister have her freak outs? Great, what a great life.

I hope that venting helps you I am hoping it helps me too.
I wish I could be positive this morning, but after the night we had with D- I cannot right now.

All the best

[1hope]

Hi dogdays,
I can relate too.  My DD19, has had problems with anxiety for most of her life, which then progressed to depression, and a diagnosis of BPD traits at 18.  Our lives have been upended and we have watched countless spirals, suicide attempts and hospital stays.  

When we got a diagnosis, I started to read about BPD... .almost obsessively.   I wanted an answer.  I wanted a solution.  I wanted something that said it wasn't our fault.  I didn't find it... .but I did find this site.  I did find people here that listen.  People who understand.   People who don't judge.  People that I can share the crazy times, and the small successes with.  It turns out that this is what I needed.  

I have learned that as much as I want to "fix" her, I can't.  I have learned many skills on here that have made that easier to accept, and that are helping us get to a better place.  I have realized that I CAN change myself, and how I react to things.  This made me angry for a while, much like it sounds like you're feeling.  Why did I have to change? I didn't see the problem... . 

Then I started to change... .for my own sake.  I was tired of being stressed all the time... .not sleeping or eating well, not doing things for myself, losing who I used to be.  I was angry, sad, in mourning for the life I was supposed to have.  Mourning the loss of who I thought my daughter would be.  

We're coming to a better place now.  My daughter moved out suddenly in September, which upended us... .but it has been a good thing.  We have space to breathe, and to grow.  We are now closer I think.  I've been using the strategies from this site.  

Dogdays, keep coming here.  Vent, rant, share what you feel comfortable with.  We're all here for you.  You're not alone!

Hoping you have a better day today,
1hope

[Whototurnto?]

  Hello Dogdays.

Your post says exactly the same things I have thought about. I totally get where you are coming from. I wonder if in other societies that don't acknowledge BPD it exists, or do those who would say they suffer with it have to change to live their lives. It does seem like the BPD's have it all their own way. I too am tired of being told it is all my fault, that I was a bad parent. I wasn't a bad parent, but sometimes it really gets you down, doesn't it.

I can't add anything else other than I get you. I am with you. I hope you look after yourself from this point on.

[Yepanotherone]

I’m right there with you too Dogdays and have thought similar things myself “ is this even a condition?Does it give her the excuse to just be an absolute horror ?” . Wow I think I actually hate her for what she hasbecome , for what she’s doing to us ,I want to throw her to the kerb and to punish her for breaking this family into a shadow of its former self . We have a GOOD family and a GOOD  life damnit ! We didn’t deserve this ! Why us ! Why is she destroying what we have and what she COULD have ! Why does she not appreciate what she actually has in us as her family and everything we do and have done for her ?And abuse /trauma ? She’s had none of that ! She’s had a damn good upbringing full of everything many kids can only dream about ! Well she can do what she likes , I’m done ! Good luck to her ! Knock yourself out girl ! Go do what you do best ! Mess things up and dont come running back to me ! “

Yep , I can relate ! That seething anger . I’ve been there , got the teashirt . We have every right to be angry . Embrace it when it happens . And come vent here , because we get it

Ps I don’t actually SAY these things to my DD , I just say them in my head or to my husband. Sometimes I’ll say them out loud when I’m driving In the car and I have my music blasting . I have this whole imaginary conversation with her , out loud , shouting everything out that I want to scream at her when I’m MAD as hell! It’s great therapy , I get it out there and feel better for it . I look completely InSAnE I’m sure , especially when I’ve stopped at traffic lights and I’m still giving it laldy ... .to myself !   

[Huat]

Well... .hello there, Dogdays!  Welcome!

The wonderful thing about this forum is that it gives one the opportunity to blast off... .put words to all those feelings that are welling up inside.  I certainly have felt better when I have done it and I sure hope you got some relief, too.

Getting angry is not such a bad thing.  Sometimes that is what it takes to make changes and heaven knows that, in the case of all of us here, changes are hoped for and much needed.  The thing is, it is up to each of US to make those changes.

We have been going down this rocky path with our uBPD daughter for 40 years now.  Forty years ago we had never heard of Borderline Personality Disorder.  We had a "wild child"... .a child who going through the rebellious teens and would eventually grow out of it.  Yadda!  Yadda! Yadda!  We suffered much!   In the late 80's when a counsellor recommended we read a book called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" and mentioned something called "BPD"... .Hmmmmm?  Well... .took a while to even find the book, then as I read it, I cried.  "IT" had a name.

For a long, long time I harboured guilt... .as her Mom, what was it I had done to turn her into who she was?  What did I allow to happen in her life that should not have happened?  That is a heavy, heavy load to bear and it left me with no energy to face up to reality and find ways to deal with it.   It took ages for me to ask myself... .Why should I feel guilty if I did the best I could as her Mom... .did better when I knew better... .and... .will continue to do so.  I'll just bet you can say the same about yourself, too.

So, all those years behind me of playing the part of "victim" to my daughter's role of "bully", I am finally coming into my own.  I am mad!  That doesn't say I will ever stop loving her but my anger has spurred me on to making changes.  Finding this support group was a turning point for me.

JustYouWait is another regular on this forum and I loved what she wrote in one of her welcoming posts to a Newbie... .""Welcome here.  It is a fine place for people like us.  In fact, the place is FULL of "us".  We understand.  Come early.  Come often.  Take what you need, and leave what you don't." 



Huat

[Faith Spring]

Dog days, I hope to read more of your posts.  It's hard to put into words what I feel and you have the knack, so please keep going. 
Thanks for sharing some of the most uncomfortable feelings with us.  I'm so freaking lost in this.  But I sense life preservers here.  I sense I'll find a way through and out. 

[Hyacinth Bucket]

I've wondered the same thing. But people also used to be institutionalized for depression back then.

The nice thing is that you do not have to sacrifice for your child. Read about FOG. I wrote FOG on a notecard and stuck it in my wallet, and whenever I was tempted to try to bail my daughter out of something or try to fix something for her, I pulled it out. FOG stands for Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. These are the tactics that people with BPD will use to get their needs met. If you can start moving toward never doing anything out of fear, obligation, or guilt, your load will feel a little lighter. You will feel like you are starting to take care of yourself. You will begin to regain a sense of self. 

No one can fix anyone else. We are all responsible for ourselves. Make sure to take care of yourself, get some rest.

[Dogdays]

Thanks everyone for your posts. I learnt a lot. Also I was able to calm down sufficiently to communicate calmly with her & even got an apology. This site is really helping me. Thank you

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hi there Dogdays

You calmed down sufficiently and got an apology. What was happening?

Glad to hear family is helping you, kinda does that in its own special way   

WDx

[MomMae]

That is great Dogdays, that after venting (so necessary sometimes!), that you were able to have a positive interaction with your daughter! Exactly what this forum is all about 

I would also like to thank you for being brave enough to put into words what all of us feel from time to time (and sometimes all the time!)  I think it speaks volumes when we note the number of replies expressing agreement and understanding with your thoughts and feelings.  It tells me that we need to hear it all, how others are feeling, coping or not... .it helps normalize some of our own thoughts that can be uncomfortable to share at times.  While it is great and essential to hear positive thoughts and successes, it is also important to know that we are not alone in our questioning, angry and dark moments.

This has been a great thread that has generated much discussion.  For the record, I, too have wondered about BPD being a westernized, modern disease.  My mother spent a decade of her young years escaping communism and then in a Displaced Persons camp living in very close quarters with many people. As she says, there is no time for BPD behaviours in those types of settings - where survival is at stake. I sometimes wonder if part of BPD is our modern society where there is so much time to "be in your own head" and "self" is often valued over community.

Hope to hear more from you, Dogdays.  MM