PTSD counseling for the non

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi all its been some time,  Im formerly reluctanthusband but lost access to the email so I was not able to reset the password for that user name.  It has been likely 2 years or so since I have been on the message boards.  Moving, new job etc. I also got off becasue I found my self getting into cycles of depression  reading the boards all the time hoping to find the magic bullet to cure it all.

just some highlights to catch you up before I address the subject:
- I'm the non DPWBPD is my wife
- Married 17+ years 3 kids(F16,M11,M9)
- Found out at year 10 that wife had an affair of upwards of a month with ex boyfriend during year 2 while I was stationed overseas.  I have been suprisingly faithfull dispite the emotional abuse listed below.
- Year 1-10 emotionally abused but thought it was my fault
- During subsequent MC after bombshell found out Wife was BPD. Wich made it all worse for me.
- Got to point through MC year 11/12 where I was not making it worse, but she was not getting better.
- 2014 had a point where I was suicidal and had a loaded .45 in my hand multiple times.
- 2014-present I have just been treading water emotionaly and doing all the right things to stay, making plans for retirement, buying a house and building a farm.
- Military family(For the next year until I retire)
- Have been a devout Christian family the entire Marriage obviously one of us to a lesser extent than the other.


Initially I stayed for religious reasons because we both come from broken families, which quicly turned into staying for the kids. But I have been waivering as of late becuse of her continued difficulty, her failure of our finances and that I have never really healed of the betrayal.  I think I have forgiven her but I can't forget about it.  The things I needed from her emotionally to make it right have never been adressed. Within days of D-day she was asking me why I had not forgiven her yet assuming that I had an affair overseas making what she did justified.  I was horribly screwed If I had left when she told me and I am still in that position today.  She would get half of my retirement and nearly all of any pay I could ever generate due to alimony and child support.  Her mother was a vengefull terrible person in her divorce and I am terrified of her that I will have nothing if I cant stay anymore.  Im trying to find the magic bullet that will at least help me forget and manage past all of this. 

Add to all of the above I am retiring in a year and that is triggering her to no end even though I have told her what is happening, Made a simple to follow plan and have reiterated to her all of my plans.

I have been having intense emotional episodes over the last few years which I outwardly suppress or work myselfin  the garden to exaustion.  I am having reoccuring afair dreams,  dreams of strangling her and hitting her, dreams of catching her with another man and shooting them both dead, bouts of intense paranoia(Even though I know them to be most likely untrue).   In the light of recent events I want to clarify that I am not going to do these things,  I have never laid a hand on her EVER and dont plan to.  In the almost 8 years since bombshell  I have not been able to shake these episodes and the longer I get away from D-day the more I have to supress them and the more intense they get. 

The problem is when she disregulates I can usually keep my cool but I have found my self loosing it and screaming so hard I go horse.  If you are worried about this and my above statements please know she is the physically violent one.   Spurring from an absolute whopper of an accustaion from her(I was banging my clerk at work ) I started going to see our units counselor. She suggested that I go to the specialty PTSD counselors as well as her for Marriage counseling. 

She also suggested that I try to get my wife on some medication as she is causing a lot of chaos in our family by not managing our money correctly, sticking to diciplinary measures and not scheduling herself so that she can properly homeschool our children. Our kids have not had a proper HS education for nearly a year,  this is not terribly hard to overcome for a HS family, but she has refused to do it up until recently.  I'm going to be posting alot to catch up.

Any one out there in the boards have any insight specifically for the non that cant get right because of his SWBPD?

[reluctanthubs]

Hi all its been some time,  Im formerly reluctanthusband but lost access to the email so I was not able to reset the password for that user name.  It has been likely 2 years or so since I have been on the message boards.  Moving, new job etc. I also got off becasue I found my self getting into cycles of depression  reading the boards all the time hoping to find the magic bullet to cure it all.

just some highlights to catch you up before I address the subject:
- I'm the non DPWBPD is my wife
- Married 17+ years 3 kids(F16,M11,M9)
- Found out at year 10 that wife had an affair of upwards of a month with ex boyfriend during year 2 while I was stationed overseas.  I have been suprisingly faithfull dispite the emotional abuse listed below.
- Year 1-10 emotionally abused but thought it was my fault
- During subsequent MC after bombshell found out Wife was BPD. Wich made it all worse for me.
- Got to point through MC year 11/12 where I was not making it worse, but she was not getting better.
- 2014 had a point where I was suicidal and had a loaded .45 in my hand multiple times.
- 2014-present I have just been treading water emotionaly and doing all the right things to stay, making plans for retirement, buying a house and building a farm.
- Military family(For the next year until I retire)
- Have been a devout Christian family the entire Marriage obviously one of us to a lesser extent than the other.


Initially I stayed for religious reasons because we both come from broken families, which quicly turned into staying for the kids. But I have been waivering as of late becuse of her continued difficulty, her failure of our finances and that I have never really healed of the betrayal.  I think I have forgiven her but I can't forget about it.  The things I needed from her emotionally to make it right have never been adressed. Within days of D-day she was asking me why I had not forgiven her yet assuming that I had an affair overseas making what she did justified.  I was horribly screwed If I had left when she told me and I am still in that position today.  She would get half of my retirement and nearly all of any pay I could ever generate due to alimony and child support.  Her mother was a vengefull terrible person in her divorce and I am terrified of her that I will have nothing if I cant stay anymore.  Im trying to find the magic bullet that will at least help me forget and manage past all of this. 

Add to all of the above I am retiring in a year and that is triggering her to no end even though I have told her what is happening, Made a simple to follow plan and have reiterated to her all of my plans.

I have been having intense emotional episodes over the last few years which I outwardly suppress or work myselfin  the garden to exaustion.  I am having reoccuring afair dreams,  dreams of strangling her and hitting her, dreams of catching her with another man and shooting them both dead, bouts of intense paranoia(Even though I know them to be most likely untrue).   In the light of recent events I want to clarify that I am not going to do these things,  I have never laid a hand on her EVER and dont plan to.  In the almost 8 years since bombshell  I have not been able to shake these episodes and the longer I get away from D-day the more I have to supress them and the more intense they get. 

The problem is when she disregulates I can usually keep my cool but I have found my self loosing it and screaming so hard I go horse.  If you are worried about this and my above statements please know she is the physically violent one.   Spurring from an absolute whopper of an accustaion from her(I was banging my clerk at work ) I started going to see our units counselor. She suggested that I go to the specialty PTSD counselors as well as her for Marriage counseling. 

She also suggested that I try to get my wife on some medication as she is causing a lot of chaos in our family by not managing our money correctly, sticking to diciplinary measures and not scheduling herself so that she can properly homeschool our children. Our kids have not had a proper HS education for nearly a year,  this is not terribly hard to overcome for a HS family, but she has refused to do it up until recently.  I'm going to be posting alot to catch up.

Any one out there in the boards have any insight specifically for the non that cant get right because of his SWBPD?

[reluctanthubs]

Mod I think this belongs in the conflicted group if you can move it

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Reluctanthubs-  (please forgive the length of this response)

Hi there and welcome back.  I hope you're ok hearing from a woman, non-military, but we do have some things in common, so I hope I can give you some daylight.

First, from the depths of my heart, thank you for your service. 

I am so so sorry that you're suffering so deeply, but in my heart of hearts, I do believe that we don't have to feel like this.  I remember years ago, when I was 19 and apart from my boyfriend who was in the marine corp.  My dad came into the bathroom where I was ill, and said "Gems, you don't have to feel like this, I'll send you to him".  When I am at my lowest, I hear my late dad say "Gems, you don't have to feel like this."

Please let me give you some background.  I too suffer from PTSD and until now, I have never sought the proper treatment.  Mine arises from ongoing sexual molestation when I was 6-7 years old, a violent sexual assault in college, and finally, DV at the hands of my "loving" ex-husband.  The incident with the husband was a one-time event and triggered the end of our marriage.  He was arrested based on what he told the police.  During the course of our 19 years together I was emotionally abused, although I did not consciously know it at the time.  I did know that I twisted myself inside out trying to keep that man happy.  He was the catalyst for my downward financial slide.  In the 8 months following the violent episode (I of course refused to press charges), he was supposed to stay off the property.  He did not; but rather stalked and literally made my existence hell.  In  my very poor emotional state, I fled my home, my community, my friends, my career, etc.  But... .I am no longer his "victim".  I don't know what I would call him mentally, definitely NPD with some BPD traits (I am on this site due to my current BF, who is BPD).  This makes me a real winner, right?

My ex-husband was a cheater.  His first affair took place BEFORE we married.  I had not thought I would be the type of person who could either forgive OR forget about something like that.  But apparently I could and I did.  I just could not live without the trust thing.  Although at times I question whether I'm very trusting or just completely aloof because I've been so deeply hurt and need to protect myself emotionally.  Or... .because if I place too much stock in a physical sexual act, then based on what had happened to my body against my will, I possibly would NEVER have had contact with a man again.  But here's the thing... .I knew and loved my marine before I was raped in college, so that beauty kept me afloat.

Here's the thing for me, RH, and maybe you can try this approach.  BPD and NPD people cannot self-soothe.  Some people, not all, just need to look to others to fill their emptiness.  Pretty much all the time.  There's just this hollowness in them that no amount of religion or validation or family or one partner can fill.  Now this is an over-simplified explanation I use for myself, but Just like "normal" people will have different types of conversations or relationships with different friends or coworkers. 

When they cheat, they're not consciously doing it TO US, they're doing it FOR THEMSELVES.  Period.  And I don't think it's special to just people with disorders.  That seems to be the way it is with most people who cheat.  They just use their bodies because there's something lacking or cracked in their hearts.  Some people make love with their bodies, other people bed down.  And because cheating people don't generally connect completely, they don't consider the pain their actions will cause.  Of course your wife doesn't understand that her actions hurt you.  She's NEVER felt that connection with anyone.  She likely doesn't have the capacity.  She's disconnected from her own emotions.  And that's sad for her.

SELF-CARE: 

You have a lot going on right now.  I heard a saying - 
"KEEP YOUR HEAD WHERE YOUR FEET ARE". 

I think if we get too far ahead of ourselves , it can feel way way too overwhelming.  So if you can, pull in your reins a bit.  You DO have options. 

For instance, and I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, but I feel some real fear in the retirement scenario.  Is that correct?  If so, what's to stop you from pursuing something you've always wanted to do?  School?  Another type of work?  Looking forward to things gives us hope.  It can shine a light for us.   Your W doesn't need to know everything you may be considering.  You're allowed to have a life!  Toss things around with trusted buddies.  But may I ask... .WHY is she becoming so alarmed at the thought of your retirement?

I hear you saying that counseling IS available in the service.  Please take good advantage of that.  You deserve good support, and if your W is being violent toward you, please make certain to tell your therapist (and your COn?).  You know, we have some very knowledgeable members here who are retired military guys.  They will know the words to give you in this regard.  I think one thing, so that you can continue to post, is "OPSEC"?  Which is maybe delete your computer browsing history and be sure to keep your password very confidential.

Yea, the nightmares.  My BF wakes me up when I'm screaming or crying in my nightmares.  My nightmares scare him.  When I do remember them, I don't tell him, because often they involve him now and the horrid things he has done, but no matter.  I'm interested in doing either CBT or EMDR for my PTSD.  Have you looked into either of those therapies for yourself?

And yes, thoughts of suicide... .I don't own a gun and am so afraid of guns.  But I felt this sweeping calm rush over me when I figured out just how I would cleanly "escape" my so-called life.  And then I realized, pretty recently, I better get some real help, so I am searching for a qualified therapist because "I don't have to feel like this".  Please RH, for yourself and your beloved children - push away any thought of that.  She had BPD long before you met.  You are NOT responsible for her condition and you are NOT her only trigger.  Does she go to therapy at all?  Has she ever admitted she may have any issues?

Your responses to her raging:  with you feeling so much pressure, it's pretty natural that you're losing your cool.  Here's the thing, RH, you do NOT have to participate in screaming matches with her.  It's hurting you too much.  And you don't want your kids to see this anymore.  You are ALLOWED to remove your body and your ears from the situation.  You can say to her, "I'm sorry, but I cannot be a part of such an upsetting conversation.  I'll sit down and talk quietly when you're ready".  And then leave and walk outside.  Take yourself for a walk or a short drive.  Just breathe... .  you are allowed to do things that are good for you.  RH, you are NOT responsible for her behavior.  You don't have to "match" her.  And believe me, I totally get that we try to defend ourselves, but JADEing doesn't work.  Ever... .  I understand it's exhausting being in these relationships on top of working and having kids, but looking over the tools on the site may be a good idea when you have the energy.  The communication tools can help to diffuse those emotionally charged conversations.  But my go-to now is simply removing my body from the area, or suggesting that my BPD BF remove himself.  It works, and I generally do it very kindly.

It feels like you are closer to your military family than a church family?  Then draw all the support you can from your military family.

If BPDw is messing up finances, pull that function away from her in time.

If BPDw isn't properly educating children, then put them in public school.

And remember this one true thing... .just because we make a decision today does NOT mean it has to be for the rest of our lives.  Your children will grow up to become fine adults.  You will not ALWAYS  be paying child support if you decide down the road that this marriage no longer makes sense for your health or happiness.  I don't intend to offend, but I don't think GOD wants us to stay in situations that are so deeply painful that we consider ending our lives.

There is so much more to say to you, RH.  The most important thing NOW is to care for yourself and gather support for YOU.  Please draw on the strength of those who would very willingly stand at your side.  (and forget about BPDw's issues for the time being).

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[formflier]

Any one out there in the boards have any insight specifically for the non that cant get right because of his SWBPD?

Hey... .welcome back (  ) .

I'm a retired Naval Aviator.  Your post caught my eye.  Without reading any more of your history, I'm going to give you a couple insights based on military background and based on my journey.

I've got 8 kids (BPD showed up late... long story).  So... .stability for my kids, dare I even say improvement in circumstances for them, was high on my priority list.  

When I focused directly on my wife and her parenting skills or her "outbursts", that didn't seem to go well.

When I focused on me and my reactions and my part of the "dynamic", it "felt" really unfair, yet there was undeniable change in the relationship.  Undeniable.

Compared to focusing on her, where it seemed there was just conflict.

     So listen, it's not fair, but it is what it is.  


If you are up for learning about what you can change... .that will force her to change, then let us know and buckle up.  I suppose I should tell you, she's not going to like it... .that's part of the deal.

Next:  retirement is a big deal.  I retired in 2012.  Everyone tells you that the "loss of structure" is devastating... .it is.  I think doubly so for guys like us, because we have someone in our life "pulling down structure" as well as us walking away from military structure.

Find a good counselor for you... .work hard... .on you.  I see a PhD level psychologist weekly.  Very important part of my life.  Military guys tend to not be good at nuance, especially in a relationship.  T's can help with that.  Of course, that's after you re-establish respect... .set boundaries and a few other things.

What can we help you with first?  

I'm also a conservative Christian (Baptist type).  If interested in kicking that angle around, let me know.  Big picture.  Let your faith sustain you.  Be wary of the church, many don't understand PDs... many "church" solutions make it worse, out of ignorance.

Note that I used church and faith... .very different words... .some in the church like to confuse those.  Keep them straight in your mind.

FF

[Gemsforeyes]

Thank you, FF!  You're the person I was hoping would land here!

Gemsforeyes

[Red5]

reluctanthubs

Good morning!... .and welcome back… I have only been here a little over a year and a half myself, and this site has helped me immensely.

That said, I want to tell you here, that after reading your post, it sounds exactly as if you were writing of my first marriage, the similarities are uncanny, almost every detail is mirrored.

I want to echo formflier and the others, and I do understand, retiring out of the service is a big deal, yes it is!

As I too am a veteran, I retired about seven years ago after almost thirty years in the service.

So what is the same in your story compared to mine, I was married also for about twenty two years, married just out of high school, so we were both in our teenage years, so we were just kids. My first wife had a lot of issues that I won’t go into here, we pretty grew up into adult hood together in the first few years of our marriage, but I will say that she was a survivor, but she did seem to go back and forth from survivor;... .then back to victim quite often, .as in your story there was also a lot of unfaithfulness, which resulted in much martial calamity, and chaos, .we also had three children, and I also deployed many many times, .for months and months at a time, sometimes to Japan, and sometimes to sea onboard ship.

We actually almost divorced several times, .before we did so for good.

In the end she left on her own, and pretty much deserted the children and me, and at that time our children were all teenagers.

She just walked away from all of us, she was hurting that bad, all resultant, as I believed; from her childhood trauma... .as far as I could understand any of it... .a very long story my friend.

I think we both fought long and hard, but in the end, I could no longer do anything to help her... .and I had to just let her go.

She was the love of my life, and I will always feel deep hurt over having not been successful in saving the marriage.

Not every story is the same though, and just because I failed, does not mean that you will as well, every relationship is indeed very very different, .please understand this !

I am not really sure exactly what pd my ex-wife had, .but I think I saw in there, ptsd, maybe some mpd, and also possibly BPD looking back over all of it now;... .but as I was so naïve you see, .as we were just kids when we got married so long ago, .and I was certainly not well informed, educated, or even had any inkling of what I was taking on in marrying her... .and I rolled, rose, and fell, and even drowned a few times with the relationship, one event after another, .I did finally come to understand somewhat about the effects of childhood trauma, and what effects are presented/represented into adult life if not dealt with, (acting out)... .and in the end I did lose her to this, and was not able to “save” her.

Thus I became a single father for the last five years I was in the service after we divorced, .not really sure how I pulled it all off, .but I had deployed so much up to that time, that I got “shore duty” for a little while, an then a Staff billet after that; where I retired from, and now I am a civil servant in my "retirement" mode.

So why am I even here at BPDfam?, well… after my first wife and I divorced, I did stay single for about five years, trying to understand why, trying to heal... .then I started to date again (whew boy!)... .and in that time I was able to reconcile myself, and I did move on, .and alas (!) I met someone else, and so I have been remarried to another lady for about seven years now, .and she is;... . from what I am understanding now;... .a pw/BPD…

I thought I knew a thing or two about pd’s... but I knew nothing, and now my current wife and I struggle, but as I am much older, and wiser ()… maybe… just  maybe… things will be different this time,

My current wife was also previously married; and also was married for over twenty years, and also has grown adult children of her own, so you’d think we would be “old hands" at this now… not so, alas I am still learning, and seems everyday, I learn something new!

In closing, I want you to know that with the right tools, determination, and healthy goal oriented work, you and your wife can make it Brother, but it won’t be easy, .but hang in there, take care of yourself, and your children, and learn all you can in the meantime, and please know and understand that you are not alone in this, many others have been down this same path, some made it, and some did not, but YOU will make it if you are honest to yourself, and cling to your moral core convictions, and belief system.

One more thing, I too am a Christian, I was raised to believe in Christ, but my first wife was not, and I think that had I been a better example to her in the beginning, that I may have fared better, trust in the Good Lord, and you won’t go wrong, whatever the outcome may be.

Keep us posted,

Red5

[AskingWhy]

reluctanthubs, one of the worst feelings one can have with a BPS spouse is the helplessness.

I concur with FF on concentrating on yourself first.  Find you own inner strength and, above all, remember that it's not your fault.

Also, PTSD is usually defined as one traumatic incident.  Spouses of BPDs are more likely to have complex PTSD.  Some clinicians do do recognize the accumulated incidences of repeated trauma, such as an abusive relationship.

[Radcliff]

reluctanthubs,

I'm also a veteran, though I didn't make it to 20 like some of the other guys.  Welcome back!  I can relate to PTSD issues.  I just recently separated from my wife who was violent, and am having a fair bit of PTSD going on.  My therapist is doing EMDR, and though we're just getting started, I'm thinking it's a very good thing for me to be doing.

Definitely, take advantage of any PTSD counseling resources the military can offer you. 

There is a phone app called iChill which was designed with military PTSD sufferers in mind.  It implements the Community Resiliency Model, which seems like a good thing to understand.  It doesn't teach it so well, so I've been meaning to get online and look it up.  There's a good chance your military PTSD folks know about it.

EMDR is about healing trauma at its roots.  iChill is about coping, keeping you away from crisis, learning ways to calm down when things start to spiral out of control. 

I can relate to the sudden self-destructive urges you mentioned.  It's pretty scary stuff.  PTSD is absolutely treatable.  You can feel better.  I'd pursue treatment aggressively.

Hey, about that weapon, the .45.  Do you still have it?  I was raised with guns, and enjoyed them, but when we had kids we shipped them off to my dad's.  In the last turbulent years in my home, I've been glad not to have them.  Not that they would have caused trouble, but it's nice not to even have to worry about it.  Do you currently have firearms in your home?

WW

[reluctanthusband]

Gems,

Thanks for the kind words  I don't know how to quote multiple things from different folks but here is my best.

Gems:

"When they cheat, they're not consciously doing it TO US, they're doing it FOR THEMSELVES."  I believe this yes and no.  My wife ALWAYS brings up how 'Horrible' I treated her in the trip to Japan that happened shortly before the affair.  She also alluded to it after she told me about the affair that she "knew" I must have been having an affair when in Japan because of the way I treated her which was not bad at all.  This is during the "WHY are you not forgiving me week post bombshell.

Yes I am worried about retirement from the Military mostly from a financial standpoint.  If we don't get our finances in check AND I don't get a really good job its going to be really tight.  I know that if we divorce the finances are screwed anyways because right now we couldn't afford another car payment let alone being separated for and entire year before the divorce is final.  C

As far as self care I am trying to build our farm and that is what brings me the most pleasure except for my children.  Obviously the farm is out of the question because we will likely have to fold if we separate.  I likely wont be going to school until probably mid 2019 I just don't have the time for it right now.

I get counseling and am getting more soon.  Right now my wife seems to be resistant to counseling because of having to rehash all of our junk.  I really hope she does because I don't want to have to try and keep this going without any hope of her getting better.

Raging:  I try to stay out of the arguments, but its really hard when she pushes the right buttons

I am closer to my Military family just because we have not been really able to dig into the Church family.  Heck I cant ever get her to get motivated to get there on time, let alone invest in healthy relationships.

The finances are being taken over by me full stop she will have her opinion time on some choices but I will be driving the bus and she will be the passenger.

As far as God is concerned this is my biggest struggle.  I know I am supposed to forgive, forgive and keep forgiving.  That is Biblical and I would be stupid(and wrong) to argue with that theology.  My issue is how long can I keep doing that knowing that BPD Bull crap is just going to pop back up sometime down the road usually sooner rather than later. Its like drunk husband and Christian wife except I'm the wife and I am only being emotionally beat up.

formflyier:

Yeah that's all I can do is work on me, but it doesn't make it feel any better dealing with "What the hell is coming up next".  We have been to counseling for about two long periods, two years after(until the counselor died) and then a year or so back in 2014 when I had my suicidal thoughts.  I hate that I cant shake all of these negative thoughts, I hate to think that I have to continue to deal with her issues that she does not believe she has for at least the next 8-10 years.  I have been scheduled to go see the psycologist and psychiatrist here shortly and the Doc's have suggested I take something for my anxiety to tone it down for a while.  I am reluctant to take it though as I don't want to just numb the pain and use that as a crutch.

WW:

I do have firearms in the home, a good number of them.  I am not so off that I wont know when I need to park them somewhere if I need to.  

[lighthouse9]

Hey reluctanthubs,

Everything seems really well covered here but I just wanted to sent a note to lend support and cheer you on in this hard time. Keep up the counseling. I had an ex who abused me who I assumed to be either BPD or ASD. I mentioned this in a thread to Wentworth before, but it's not easy to mix masculinity with being victimized by a BPD spouse. I went through about 6 months of intense counseling after that experience, but more recently through my break up with my current uBPD wife have been having some nasty flashbacks. Current partner has never been physically abusive, but the level of deception and control, projection, the cheating, it's all sent me reeling at times. I find myself waking up and imagining the dirty details of their affair. My therapist has been teaching me how to distract in these moments - audiobooks, hard exercise, etc. But trust me, there have been a number of times I imagine myself doing awful things to the guy she cheated with.

Keep doing you man. You're doing great. Depend on the resources the military offers you and take the separation process seriously. I don't know what your base is like, but if there are classes at an FRG or readiness center, take them. Spend some time on Military OneSource and take advantage of their resources, too. They offer some family counseling that's not psychological counseling but is more "coaching." I'm not sure if you'd be eligible if you're already in counseling, but they have some low-key marriage resources that might be a starting point your wife would be willing to take. You be the judge there - but definitely take advantage of the wealth of resources at your fingertips and even bring a Chaplain in on things if you find one you like, especially if you need some support with the faith based aspects. I struggle here, too. I want to love like God loves, unconditionally. But lately, I've been praying to learn surrender - to learn how Christ could believe in life after death and could surrender himself to the suffering in order to live eternally.

Another thing re: separation - if it's your thing, get involved with some veteran groups now. Team RWB does some really great stuff around exercise and you might find a military family once your active duty time is up.

Good luck man, we're all cheering for you.

[Radcliff]

As far as God is concerned this is my biggest struggle.  I know I am supposed to forgive, forgive and keep forgiving.  That is Biblical and I would be stupid(and wrong) to argue with that theology.  My issue is how long can I keep doing that knowing that BPD Bull crap is just going to pop back up sometime down the road usually sooner rather than later. Its like drunk husband and Christian wife except I'm the wife and I am only being emotionally beat up.

reluctanthusband, the quote from you above makes me think about the book, "Boundaries," by Cloud and Townsend.  It speaks from a biblical context, and there is a part in the book that specifically addresses the apparent conflict between "turn the other cheek" and defending boundaries.  I think you'd find the book to be super helpful in establishing some healthy limits while still allowing you to view things from a Christian perspective.

WW

[reluctanthusband]

I get what you are all saying and thanks for the advise.  I just don’t understand how I cannot get one inch of sorrow from her from what has happened because of the affair.  She does not believe that 8 years of projection(which she didn't believe happened) is considered abuse.  She believes that she has been a phenomenal wife despite "My issues".  She believed a lie for 8 years, lived a lie for 8 years and stole my choice to leave as well as had more children with me to lock me in.  She said I had a choice when I found out which is utter Horse crap.  What self respecting loving Christian father is going to walk out on his kids without trying to make it work?  Not to mention that we were living in California at the time and that is literally the WORST place for a father to divorce.   None of it is acknowledged, because of my failures in the past which PALE in comparison to an affair and had nothing to do with her.

We went to MC on Tuesday which was difficult for me because she didn't want to go and showed up almost 20 min late.  The Counselor is a Christian counselor which is what I wanted so that they understand the faith dynamic of this.  We re hashed a quick version of our story where she lied a bunch and stretched the truth a large part of it.  The counselor made the statement that "We both" have hurt each other which just pisses me off totally but I think it may be her gaining my wife's trust because she also said that she was not saying that the hurt was the same just that we have.  The session ended with the understanding that we would do couples counseling to work on going forward with work on our finances/communication and that I would work on my PTSD stuff by myself. I think that is why my wife decided to carry on with the counseling.  I almost believe that was a tactic of the counselor, to work on her future choices that may make life easier in the future, but does not make me feel better about the past. 

I effing HATE this.  Why do the non's have to "Work" on themselves?  If my wife's BPD disappeared tomorrow our problems would disappear in a week!  Now I'm the one that is broken(PTSD),  now I'm the one that is on anxiety medication(Zoloft), now I'm the one that has to just gut the past and act like it didn't happen.  I NEVER thought I would ever take meds like this, I hate that I have to.  I don’t want my feelings to be drugged away as that just gives her a pass, but now I just want to freaking drug myself so I can check out.

Mind you all I am struggling with my faith in all of this as well.  I absolutely know what I am supposed to do, I know God is Big enough for this, and know that his glory will shine but I don't want to go through it.  I don’t want to have to deal with it, I just want to run away and burn the bridge and get it over with.  But I know it would be terrible for my children if I did so right now with us racked with debt a brand new house.

I don’t know what to do and don’t have any hope for an equal enough loving relationship.  Even if it gets better I will have to continue to deal with the false accusations and unfounded untrustworthiness.  I'm sure it will be less but it is still not fair and I will always be waiting for the next blow up.  I feel like I have only three options.

1. Stay long term
Pro- The kids get to stay in a functional loving home, we both have enough finances to take care of all of our issues.  "Possibility" of us getting better and living out a decent life.  Farm business grows.
Con- The kids "MAY" absorb some negative traits of wife's BPD,  We "May" display an unhealthy model of a loving relationship.  If we don’t get better I will be living a lie and will be functionally dead inside.

2. Stay short term, 8-10 years until the kids have left the nest.
Pro- The kids get to stay in a functional loving home until they set out.  I have enough time to fix the finances and save money for the exit.  Also mostly prevents me from having to pay child support to the tune of likely $150k, alimony during the time of over $100k, and $80k of my pension.  This is just flat numbers as I looked them up on calculators for my state.  She will have her Nurse schooling complete, career established and will be self-sufficient.  Going forward will likely not need any alimony and only likely get half of my pension unless she remarries, which if she does will be in less than a year or two.  She will likely by this time be older and less attractive,  She will get a boob job within a year, finally lose some weight and try to attract men that will not treat her well and she will feel worse than she ever has about herself.   I know that last part is mean, but she has never received any consequences for her actions and it would be poetic justice for her to have been untrustworthy and steal a life she didn't deserve,  be fooled into thinking everything is fine and to be dumped. I know I will catch hell from family and likely my children but I will be free from her in the least financially devastating way.  I won't lie but part of me wants to see her face when I pack my bags and leave.  She will likely move away which would be great so I wouldn’t have to see her again.

Con- I am totally unhappy knowing that I am lying and will be putting on a false façade of happy enough husband.  She will likely not feel fulfilled/loved enough and will possibly(most definitely) cheat again.  Who knows when but it will happen.  Possibility of me not being able to hold out and cheating myself, I don’t think this will happen because of my convictions on the subject but not ruling it out.  I will know that I will not be walking out the life God has set out for me and I will spiritually suffer at a minimum.  The farm will be established and she will attack it to stick it to me, especially if she has any significant part in the business(unknown at this time).  I will be nearing 50 by that time and will likely not find another partner, and will likely die alone.

3.  Leave soon(1-2 years)
Pro- It rips the band aid off and gets it over with,  I'll still be a viable mate and will possibly have a chance to find a healthy partner once the dust clears.  Our finances will likely be better and she will be farther along in her nursing education.
 
Con- Our bills and finances are screwed(likely bankruptcy) for years.  I won't have enough money to survive let alone pay all the alimony and child support in the short/med term.  The children will suffer immensely.  My wife will go for blood and destroy me and my character to anyone and everyone who will listen, alienate my younger children(my oldest will figure it out).  She will pull out all of the stops in the court to punish me for my choice. She'll fight for full custody, say I am violent/abusive and use very thing she can to disparage my character. She will out of fear, spite or loneliness find a new man,  a "better Christian Man" and once he figures out what's up he will dump her or will stick around and take it out on the kids.  She will have less incentive to continue advancing in her career due to lessened ability(single mother) and lessened need because I will not ever back down from my responsibilities.  She will push the children to go to college so I have to pay longer. 

I hate all of this.

[reluctanthusband]

Just not to confuse anyone I was able to fix my account and can post from work under Reluctanthusband.

[formflier]

I hate all of this.

Yeah... .   ... . you should.  There is no way around this feeling.


OK... .we seem very similar.  I'm from conservative Baptist roots.  Faith was and is a big part of our marriage.  bpdfamily is not "faith based" but we can certainly talk about it and give our perspectives.

Like you, I'm a "figure it all out" guy.  Like you "I don't want to live a lie"  Like you I have a wife that has an "interesting" take on "the truth".

I've been "dealing with" BPDish stuff since 2009.  It's likely many would consider my story a success.  :)epends on how you look at it.

I am successful again... .I'm hopeful about my future.  I have wonderful relationships with my children and others.  I have determined there are many of my in laws that are toxic... .and I'm estranged from them by my choice.  Haven't talked in about 2 years.  My life is immeasurably better for it.

I have a good relationship with my wife when we have a good relationship... .and when we don't... .we don't.  I move on with life and pour extra energy into the parts of my life that are working for me.  

Eventually... .things stabilize with my wife and I put more energy over there.

wash rinse repeat.

Listen man... .you're hurting.  I'm sorry for that.  I'm wondering if it would be better to focus on the next few months and let the long term plan sit for a while?  What do you think?

I'll end by endorsing Wentworth's idea to get the boundaries book from Cloud.  Read it a few times.  Pray on it.  

Boundaries are my number 1 tool for stabilizing and improving my life.  Nothing else is even close.  I suspect you will find the same.  "Boundaries" is not a "BPD book", yet it is still good for education and mindset.  Especially since you share Christian faith with the authors.

Putting on "man of faith" hat here.  Can you do me a favor and spend some time in the Word today?  Couple times. I would like you to read proverbs 4.  Think about the picture there, think about the message.  Then come here and share your thoughts.  (hint... .good chance it is related to boundaries... )

   

One step at a time... you can do this.  

FF

[Radcliff]

reluctanthusband,

I can relate to the very tough choices you are contemplating, looking at a marriage that's not working, commitment to your kids, and financial constraints.  This is not easy.  In fact, it sucks.  Let me share three thoughts... .

Working on ourselves --

Why do the non's have to "Work" on themselves?  If my wife's BPD disappeared tomorrow our problems would disappear in a week! 

Let me challenge you on this.  I know the BPD problems loom so large, they drown out everything else.  It certainly may seem like life would be easy without BPD.  But do you really believe this?  Certainly, life would be ridiculously easier by comparison.  But marriage is hard.  I cannot imagine being in a long marriage and raising children and not working on myself.  My wife's behavior has been over-the-top bad (police, courts, custody evaluators) but I know that I've played a part in the dynamic.  So much of it does come down to boundaries.  Not knowing how to define and protect my own boundaries in a constructive and non-inflammatory way.  Not respecting her boundaries by doing things she should have taken care of and by protecting her from the natural consequences of her actions.  In addition to that boundaries book,  you might want to visit this page on setting boundaries.

A very short answer about why we need to work on ourselves is that we are the only ones we can control.  If we work on ourselves, we get much better bang for the buck.  It's effective.  It doesn't solve all the problems, but it makes things better.  Working on ourselves helps not just with day-to-day life, but also with understanding how we got where we are and making better decisions about where we want to go.

Empathy/compassion -- Several things you've said highlight your frustration and anger at your wife.  Things like how you'd like to see the look on her face when she sees you leave.  I get it.  We all have these feelings sometimes.  The problem is, they don't help us.  They get in the way.  When we have these feelings inside of us, it comes out of our pores, it affects how we interact with people.  It makes us feel worse, not better.  Books like "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and "Loving Someone with BPD" talk about BPD as an illness.  They talk about how miserable it is for people who have BPD.  This helps build empathy.  I found that this empathy helped me to not take things as personally, to not be as angry at my wife.  This helped me cope, and helped me develop tools like validation and not JADEing.  These tools helped make our life better.  My big problem was that I developed empathy without boundaries.  That gave me doormat status.  Empathy with boundaries, that's the ticket.

Coherent life -- Eventually, some of us find that we are leading an incoherent life.  Our actions and situation are out of line with our values.  Or we may be living one set of values in one context, and another in another context.  In a coherent life, our actions, thoughts and behavior with our spouse, ourselves, our children, others, and our faith, in the home, at work, and in the community all line up.  This ain't easy.  But the costs of living an incoherent life pile up.  It's just not sustainable.  Every successful, happy person I know is leading a coherent life.  When you talk about living a lie for 10 years, alarm bells start to go off.  Making sure you are doing everything within your control to learn, grow, and make things work, or working towards an exit are two ways to make things more coherent.

WW

[Jeffree]

Why do the non's have to "Work" on themselves?  If my wife's BPD disappeared tomorrow our problems would disappear in a week! 

If the non wants to continue to be with their pwBPD, then the non almost always has to work on themselves to compensate for all the BPD's shortcomings AND to deal with the blowback and emotional fallout from continuing in a toxic relationship.

You have mentioned several horrendous side effects from your marriage to your pwBPD. If nothing else, you will have to work on processing all that. Then in addition you have to work on learning how to be as  effective as possible in your communication with your pwBPD because the pwBPD could give two sh1ts, and even if she did her ability and interest to work on herself are close to zero.

I am sorry, but this does seem to be how it goes when one is left to overcompensate for the failings of their pwBPD.

I second what formflier has said here and do believe you can do this. 

J

[Red5]

Why do the non's have to "Work" on themselves?  If my wife's BPD disappeared tomorrow our problems would disappear in a week!  

If the non wants to continue to be with their pwBPD, then the non almost always has to work on themselves to compensate for all the BPD's shortcomings AND to deal with the blowback and emotional fallout from continuing in a toxic relationship.

You have mentioned several horrendous side effects from your marriage to your pwBPD. If nothing else, you will have to work on processing all that. Then in addition you have to work on learning how to be as  effective as possible in your communication with your pwBPD because the pwBPD could give two sh1ts, and even if she did her ability and interest to work on herself are close to zero.

I am sorry, but this does seem to be how it goes when one is left to overcompensate for the failings of their pwBPD.

I second what formflier has said here and do believe you can do this.  

J

Its utterly exhausting at times... .

... .dealing, reeling, compensating, figuring out the next "work-around procedures"... .

NOT rescuing, & cleaning up afterwards as necessary,

Applying the correct methods (tools), whilst under fire, and at the same time, keeping the JADE under control and locked away, and knowing when you may have to flee the scene... .or enforce a boundary.

Effective interactions and communications with pw/BPD only comes after years (maybe) of garnering information/knowledge (explanations), and as well practice, and what they used to call "operational experience".

Every relationship is different, but as I read end understand, there are marked identifiers in a pw/BPD, their behaviors seem to follow the same tracks.

Paranoia is a big one for me (dealing with) right now... .and what I refer to as "age regression behavior".

It can be done though, I do believe this, there can be a "zone" in which you exists, and interact with your significant other pw/BPD, .just be prepared for them to slip their rails now and again... .and understand that "it isn't personal".

... .boundaries boundaries boundaries !

After while, it does wear you down, even when the pw/BPD is on an "up cycle"... .as you know that it is only temporary, and the lucid person will disappear from your sight again, and the "other" person will then emerge.

Yes, exhausting... .

Someone else wrote the other day, ."remind me why I stay again" ?

You got to clear your head once in a while, feel your underpinnings to ensure that they are still secured, I like formfliers advice, to get into the scripture, very wise!

Red5

[reluctanthusband]

So an update of sorts,

After our first MC Session I kind of gave in to the thought that I would not hear what I need to hear from her.  This got me pretty depressed and I started taking the full dose of Zoloft my doctor prescribed.  The remainder of the week brought some interesting changes.  I was significantly less amped, if the week before was an 9/10 I'm consistently a 2/10 now.  I really have to try hard to get worked up with the feelings that were overwhelming me.  A strange side effect of the Zoloft was that when we have been intimate I cannot climax but can go until I physically cannot anymore(1hr+).  That has made things interesting to say the least.  She has enjoyed this attention(we have been intimate almost every day) as well as made comments about my change in demeanor.

MC was significantly more productive and the counselor noticed and we explained what had been going on.   It wasn't tense at all and we agreed that I would be taking over the finances over the next 2 weeks. The remainder of the week we were intimate and it seemed as though the tone in the home has changed.  We are not going to be able to make it to MC this week because my wife has secured herself a job and is doing training during our timeslot.  The T was cool with it and wanted to give her some time to figure out her schedule and see if we needed a different time or not.

I went to my first individual T session and the T said that she will be putting me through a 12 week/session CPT(Cognitive Processing Therapy) course and that I should stay on the Zoloft until we have been through the T and have come up with a plan to wean off.  I'm on a low dose 50mg so it shouldn’t be too hard to come off of it.  She said that I have some PTSD and some depression and thinks the protocol she will be using will get me in a better place personally.

@formflier

Thanks for your encouragement.  I have been getting into the word, but I think I am just in a place that although I know how I ought to be I am struggling with it.  I am being careful with the meds and always asking myself if I am using the meds as a tool to return to a healthy place rather than a numbing agent.  I really like how I feel right now running at a seemingly lower RPM with the exception of the no climaxing thing.  I am excited at my wife's desire for intimacy as we have been in a serious slump for many years.

@Wentworth

Yeah I know I'm the only one that can or is likely to change I just think it is totally unfair. I think I will not have too much empathy or compassion towards her for the past, It's just too hurtful.  I know that is going to be an issue for me going forward, but hope that my T will be able to help me out with that.  The coherent life idea is where I think I will have the most clarity.  On one hand I am a loving Christian husband that sees us as changing the course of our family away from historical brokenness.  And on the other hand I am a severely broken and hurt individual who has to look my greatest pain in the eye every day and wishes she would just die or disappear.  On the outside Im the former and on the inside I am the latter.

[formflier]

  I have been getting into the word, but I think I am just in a place that although I know how I ought to be I am struggling with it.  I am being careful with the meds and always asking myself if I am using the meds as a tool to return to a healthy place rather than a numbing agent. 

So... .interesting and insightful comment. 

The trajectory of your life has shifted (for the better I would say).  Enjoy that.  Enjoy the "lower RPM". 

As far as getting into the Word.

I would break it into smaller steps.  Pick a couple verses (vice longer passages)... .take time to reflect and pray on those. 

When you believe you are not where you should be... .the best place to ask that question is to pray about it.  And... don't expect rush delivery on an answer.

This is a slow... reflective process.  Just take another step... .a slow step.

Regarding meds... .it sounds like you have an engaged T... .who has a plan.  Stick with that.

Is it the same T as MC?

FF

[reluctanthusband]

Is it the same T as MC?

No.  The T is Naval Mental health.  They have improved somewhat over the last few years even.  I did a short stint with MH in Pendleton in 2014 and it was a pretty straight forward process.  See an intake specialist, get a doc and make appointments.  This new system is significantly more robust.  You do a 45 min questionnaire on a laptop, intake specialist spends an hour asking clarifying questions and gets deeper family history, then an hour with the T.  You have to take another questionnaire very month or so to chart your "Progress".  I am apparently getting an app that allows my T to chart daily feelings and get a better idea of what happens in between sessions. 

[formflier]

The VA has similar things.

This sounds good.  I like the structure.  Seems like you are hopeful about this.  Correct? 

FF

[reluctanthusband]

I'd say I'm hopeful but its hard to not think about when she will dysregulate again.  I have concerns with the PTSD stuff just because I don't know how they will get my head/feelings to act differently.  I worry about coming off the meds as I have not had a panic/anxiety type event for almost 2 weeks.  Mind you this was my norm for almost 7-8 years.  It wasn't healthy but it was "My Normal".  I really don't want to be on the meds long term mostly because I don't want to be dependent on them.  Plus the no climax thing will eventually get to me, the wife is happy with the performance but I don't want it to get weird where we only do it when she wants it because I(me) ":)on't get anything out of it".  Also coming off and being "regular" in bed is a lingering thought I have.   

[formflier]

I'd say I'm hopeful but its hard to not think about when she will dysregulate again.  

Hmm...

I would think your T would encourage you to think about the next time.  To plan and think about it.  Embrace it if you will. 

It will come...

Last night and this morning at my house... .oh yeah.  Crazy a$$ stuff.  Kids rolled out of bed early... .to "study" the Bible. 

Thoughts?

FF

[Radcliff]

reluctanthusband,

Thanks for the update.  That's great to hear about your progress!  I'm glad.  Is the PTSD service related, or related to experiences with your wife or both?

WW

[reluctanthusband]

FF,

What do you mean by waking up early to "Study"?  I mean I understand what the sentence says just not the why and how it pertains to the "Crazy Stuff"

WW,

I would say almost 100% the wife.  I have been terribly blessed that my job has insulated me from the worst of the military experience as I am an IT manager by trade.  I've only dealt with one terrible experience having found the body of one of my subordinates(That was a few years older than I was) after he had committed suicide with a shotgun.  Although it seriously affected me for a little bit(couple of months) I don't think about it nor do I have any flashback anxiety over it.   

[formflier]

FF,

What do you mean by waking up early to "Study"?  I mean I understand what the sentence says just not the why and how it pertains to the "Crazy Stuff"

 

So... .our family is much more "stable" if we stay in bed longer and have a much more compressed time of waking up, getting clothes on and out the door.

Getting up early and spending 30 minutes in the "Bible" seems like a good thing.  Unless that time gets used to hector the rest of the household about being a sinner, being horrible... .(basic BPD blather in a religious wrapper)

So... to be pragmatic... .I've changed the habit in the morning, my wife's "love language" is touch... .so she was open to morning snuggles (usually non-sexual).  That has been going on for months... it really is "normal"

So... to your specific question.

If we normally get up at 645 AM... and around 545 my wife gets the children up... sits them on the couch and preaches "AT" them... .makes them read scripture and recite verses... .well... that's what I call "study".

as in "Bible study".

Note:  There was no plan for this... .nobody had any idea until she did it.  Every once in a while she will do it in the evening.  Kids go to bed... .an hour later they are woken up and preached at.

Hope that clarifies. 

Note:  This normally happens when she is upset... .I'm not responsible for her feelings but I care about family stability.  So... .whatever I can do, without violating my values... .that "stabilizes" the family... .much better.

And yeah... because "I don't want to study the Bible with my family... .I must not be a Christian... ."... I've heard that a lot.

But... .you guys see "the reason" for no study.

FF

[reluctanthusband]

FF,

I'm soo sorry man.  I can say when my wife is using our faith as a club it is the most difficult for me.  I can't even imagine taking that kind of abuse.  How do your kids take all of this?  I can only think that this is going to push them away from God in the end.  If not what do you do to mitigate all of that?

The year I had to spend in church without her was unbearable.  It was the time I almost committed suicide.  She had painted our spiritual support system black because they didn't act the way she wanted them to when her stepfather died.  She went to a totally different church for an entire year and tried to become a youth/young adult leader/mentor there.  All the while saying I was not being the "Spiritual Leader/Head" of the house because I didn't go to the other church with her. I know that is not a Biblically supported viewpoint but she didn't care. We had been going to the original church for over 3 years.  That ended up working itself out and she returned, but we lost a lot of friends.

Recently she was telling me that I was looking for answers in all the wrong places by going to the unit counselor & chaplain.  Specifically when I brought up the fact that I may have some PTSD she freaked out saying I was not in the word enough or praying enough.  To top it off the counselor that suggested I go on meds and get some PTSD treatment is a super strong Christian, but has seen many Christians struggle through things because they think they can just pray through it.   

[Radcliff]

reluctanthusband,

I'm really sorry about the PTSD.  I'm working through a fair bit of that myself.  I see I already mentioned EMDR and iChill.  Have you heard of EMDR?  I'm still early in my treatment, but I'm optimistic, it seems to be helping.

One of the things that I notice is that I don't make progress in my PTSD healing when traumatic events are still going on.  My wife and I are separated, and I'm protected by a restraining order.  When she and I have too much communication, or if I have to do a bunch of court/legal stuff, I take a few steps backward.  The first step in my PTSD healing is removing the source of the trauma.

WW