Help..ended relationship (abusive) in need of clarity..

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm new here 

Though a long time lurker. Im sorry to make my entrance so long... .

I had a long distance relationship with a man who was diagnosed with BPD early in our friendship. He had just gotten out of a six year marriage, and has two little girls. He was in and out of hospital for months, for self harm and suicide attempts (at least six times?). I stuck by him and eventually friendship turned to love. And we dated. I went to visit him twice, the first time was great we had a lot of fun, he was amazing but something always felt "off". I had a sneaking suspicion he was pinning after his ex wife, and I eventually found this was true. He asked her back several times, while we were together. Tried to kill himself, when she got a new man but swore up and down he was fine with it. I was hurt by this, but I let it go because he wasnt in treatment and I know being divorced myself, it's hard.

Anyways, a month after the first time I visited... he flew me back to visit for a month. It was ok, but there was glaring issues right from the first few days. He had a meltdown over shopping in order to cook for me, I don't eat meat but he does. He seemed to take my saying 'long as there's no meat, I'm happy' as put down? Or insult. He was so angry by the time we got to the car... .he clenched his fist and growled as he loaded up the car, this was the first time I was actually a bit scared of him. Then as we drove out the parking lot he lost his mind over some lady pulling out... .his reaction was so over the top, I moved over in my seat and tried to keep my distance. I wanted to go home then and there.

I have a very abusive past myself (his parents beat him as a teenager) having been raped at 16 and in a horribly abusive relationship. My mom also showed BPD traits but was never diagnosed. I know now I saw so many traits of my mom in this man, and because my mom has passed... .and left the huge unresolved issue that she told my ex husband she hated me... that I tried harder than I should have to help him. And put up with more than I likely should have.

Anyways... .we had a lot of push and pull in our relationship. Not just from him but me as well. I often wanted to leave, but got sucked back in and I let it happen. And I am working on it now.

Things during my trip were stressed at best, he accused me of flirting with other men, which in one case I can some what understand... .he told me to go talk to a table of Marines (he is in the navy). And I did. Six drunk guys, and one got aggressive... when I refused to hand over my number. So I finally gave him a fake number to get out of the situation that was escalating fast. My ex freaked out. Any time I so much as said hello to another man. But I never once cheated on him nor crossed any lines.

He broke his arm during my stay, and one night got drunk and proceeded to cut his cast off with a bread knife. And had to be recasted the next day.

Then on my birthday i had enough and asked him to go back to base, because the anger and sulking was too much for me. He was really lazy, wouldn't walk his own dog. Played on his phone all the time. And just watched me while I did his laundry and everything else around the place we rented.

That night he drank two bottles of wine, and had slipped into quasi phycosis. He was on the phone with me, screaming at voices he heard, people who werent there and seeing people who had died. He was talking about demons, and quoting the Bible... .something he had never done before. I was terrified. He basically blamed me. And the navy Dr put him on a heavy medication to calm him down.

Then three days later... the night his parents came to visit, my first time meeting them (the same people who he said beat him horribly) we all went out drinking. My ex got extremely drunk (we were all drinking) but he was wasted (the meds likely still in his system). We parted ways with his parents and when we got home, all hell broke loose. He peed himself. And then proceeded to drink what left over booze was there from his dad. He then started to grab knives. And that's when I bear hugged him from behind, in order to prevent him from hurting himself. He resisted a bit. He is a lanky guy, but fit. And I'm 5'10 and 103lbs. So it was a struggle. He finally broke my grip on him by clawing my arm and biting my arm... while growling. Now given my past I have a phone app that you can hit one button to record. I had my cellphone in my hand because I was trying to contact the Navy Dr or anyone there to help. Granted I wasn't getting anywhere because it was 3am and my ex was not lucid enough to give me phone numbers. I ended up catching the bite on video and the aftermath. Of me calling the police.

I had called for an ambulance, but after stating what happened... .they sent the police. In Scotland the victim doesnt press charges, the courts/police do. He was held over the weekend and charged with assault. The cops took pics of my injuries within 15 mins of the incident. As did I.

Basically my ex and didn't speak until weeks later, after I went home in the hopes that me not showing up to court, would have the charges dropped. Which it did. But my ex claims that was never the reason. In fact he claims it never happened. Even his ex-wife said in their six years of marriage he never laid a finger on her. Basically I was a liar.

This made me so angry, as I did everything to help him not be charged so he would instead get mental health help. Which he did. He was sectioned to a mental health hospital. And stayed there for the last almost four months. While there he cut his leg to shreds. Stopped eating in order to die. Tried to commit suicide. And finally cut his arm so bad he has tendon damage.

At first he hated me. Then weeks later I let myself be sucked back in again. It was the amazing idealization phase all over again. And I thought after he promised that while he never admitted to hurting me... .ever. He says he can't remember... which maybe so. He had 12 rounds of ETC in the hospital... .we could have a fresh, clean slate. No more bringing up the past. That night.

For a while it was ok. Some push and pull again. He would call/text/email me endlessly, sent me $$$ in flowers... .talked about our future,wanted to move here... .bought me gifts... .none of which I asked for. He was the sweet, amazing guy again... .But then when we finally got on track, BOOM out of nowhere he breaks up with me... .because he has too much to deal with and is sick of the going around in circles. He was freshly out of the hospital. And staying with his parents when this happened. I knew he wasn't well. He stopped his meds. Was saying he didn't think he had BPD. Because he had a job for 11 years. And was just generally a dick. Then one day it went from let's be friends... .to him saying all he did was think about me. To bringing up that night again, and right back into calling me a liar. It was insane.

I had enough and I let loose on him. I held very little back. Changed my cellphone number. And he emailed me back basically saying he had used deception to see how I really felt about him. Because he needed to know before he came to visit me. He then changed his email. Blocked me every where possible.

I can't say I'm not hurt. I am. I feel very played with. And like he knew just what to do to hurt me and I know I let him. I also can't believe I fell for everything he said. When in my head alarm bells sounded for months. I know why I was drawn in.

What I don't know is... .why did this happen? That night went down exactly like I've said here and to the police. He says he showed people pics on my injuries and they all agreed that he couldn't have done it. He says he has had his butt handed to him standing up for women. Yet that night as we left the bar... .he went after (yelling and swearing) at some drunk girl who insulted me... .but I calmly dealt with.

Everyone does seem totally fooled by his bs but me. And I can only imagine the lies and bull___ he has said about me. Which honestly? I don't really care.

But that said... .I would really appreciate some opinions on what others think took place here?

And what is the likelihood of him popping up again? I don't ask because that's my hope, it's my fear.

Sorry this was so long.

[Makoa]

I'm new here 

Though a long time lurker. Im sorry to make my entrance so long... .

I had a long distance relationship with a man who was diagnosed with BPD early in our friendship. He had just gotten out of a six year marriage, and has two little girls. He was in and out of hospital for months, for self harm and suicide attempts (at least six times?). I stuck by him and eventually friendship turned to love. And we dated. I went to visit him twice, the first time was great we had a lot of fun, he was amazing but something always felt "off". I had a sneaking suspicion he was pinning after his ex wife, and I eventually found this was true. He asked her back several times, while we were together. Tried to kill himself, when she got a new man but swore up and down he was fine with it. I was hurt by this, but I let it go because he wasnt in treatment and I know being divorced myself, it's hard.

Anyways, a month after the first time I visited... he flew me back to visit for a month. It was ok, but there was glaring issues right from the first few days. He had a meltdown over shopping in order to cook for me, I don't eat meat but he does. He seemed to take my saying 'long as there's no meat, I'm happy' as put down? Or insult. He was so angry by the time we got to the car... .he clenched his fist and growled as he loaded up the car, this was the first time I was actually a bit scared of him. Then as we drove out the parking lot he lost his mind over some lady pulling out... .his reaction was so over the top, I moved over in my seat and tried to keep my distance. I wanted to go home then and there.

I have a very abusive past myself (his parents beat him as a teenager) having been raped at 16 and in a horribly abusive relationship. My mom also showed BPD traits but was never diagnosed. I know now I saw so many traits of my mom in this man, and because my mom has passed... .and left the huge unresolved issue that she told my ex husband she hated me... that I tried harder than I should have to help him. And put up with more than I likely should have.

Anyways... .we had a lot of push and pull in our relationship. Not just from him but me as well. I often wanted to leave, but got sucked back in and I let it happen. And I am working on it now.

Things during my trip were stressed at best, he accused me of flirting with other men, which in one case I can some what understand... .he told me to go talk to a table of Marines (he is in the navy). And I did. Six drunk guys, and one got aggressive... when I refused to hand over my number. So I finally gave him a fake number to get out of the situation that was escalating fast. My ex freaked out. Any time I so much as said hello to another man. But I never once cheated on him nor crossed any lines.

He broke his arm during my stay, and one night got drunk and proceeded to cut his cast off with a bread knife. And had to be recasted the next day.

Then on my birthday i had enough and asked him to go back to base, because the anger and sulking was too much for me. He was really lazy, wouldn't walk his own dog. Played on his phone all the time. And just watched me while I did his laundry and everything else around the place we rented.

That night he drank two bottles of wine, and had slipped into quasi phycosis. He was on the phone with me, screaming at voices he heard, people who werent there and seeing people who had died. He was talking about demons, and quoting the Bible... .something he had never done before. I was terrified. He basically blamed me. And the navy Dr put him on a heavy medication to calm him down.

Then three days later... the night his parents came to visit, my first time meeting them (the same people who he said beat him horribly) we all went out drinking. My ex got extremely drunk (we were all drinking) but he was wasted (the meds likely still in his system). We parted ways with his parents and when we got home, all hell broke loose. He peed himself. And then proceeded to drink what left over booze was there from his dad. He then started to grab knives. And that's when I bear hugged him from behind, in order to prevent him from hurting himself. He resisted a bit. He is a lanky guy, but fit. And I'm 5'10 and 103lbs. So it was a struggle. He finally broke my grip on him by clawing my arm and biting my arm... while growling. Now given my past I have a phone app that you can hit one button to record. I had my cellphone in my hand because I was trying to contact the Navy Dr or anyone there to help. Granted I wasn't getting anywhere because it was 3am and my ex was not lucid enough to give me phone numbers. I ended up catching the bite on video and the aftermath. Of me calling the police.

I had called for an ambulance, but after stating what happened... .they sent the police. In Scotland the victim doesnt press charges, the courts/police do. He was held over the weekend and charged with assault. The cops took pics of my injuries within 15 mins of the incident. As did I.

Basically my ex and didn't speak until weeks later, after I went home in the hopes that me not showing up to court, would have the charges dropped. Which it did. But my ex claims that was never the reason. In fact he claims it never happened. Even his ex-wife said in their six years of marriage he never laid a finger on her. Basically I was a liar.

This made me so angry, as I did everything to help him not be charged so he would instead get mental health help. Which he did. He was sectioned to a mental health hospital. And stayed there for the last almost four months. While there he cut his leg to shreds. Stopped eating in order to die. Tried to commit suicide. And finally cut his arm so bad he has tendon damage.

At first he hated me. Then weeks later I let myself be sucked back in again. It was the amazing idealization phase all over again. And I thought after he promised that while he never admitted to hurting me... .ever. He says he can't remember... which maybe so. He had 12 rounds of ETC in the hospital... .we could have a fresh, clean slate. No more bringing up the past. That night.

For a while it was ok. Some push and pull again. He would call/text/email me endlessly, sent me $$$ in flowers... .talked about our future,wanted to move here... .bought me gifts... .none of which I asked for. He was the sweet, amazing guy again... .But then when we finally got on track, BOOM out of nowhere he breaks up with me... .because he has too much to deal with and is sick of the going around in circles. He was freshly out of the hospital. And staying with his parents when this happened. I knew he wasn't well. He stopped his meds. Was saying he didn't think he had BPD. Because he had a job for 11 years. And was just generally a dick. Then one day it went from let's be friends... .to him saying all he did was think about me. To bringing up that night again, and right back into calling me a liar. It was insane.

I had enough and I let loose on him. I held very little back. Changed my cellphone number. And he emailed me back basically saying he had used deception to see how I really felt about him. Because he needed to know before he came to visit me. He then changed his email. Blocked me every where possible.

I can't say I'm not hurt. I am. I feel very played with. And like he knew just what to do to hurt me and I know I let him. I also can't believe I fell for everything he said. When in my head alarm bells sounded for months. I know why I was drawn in.

What I don't know is... .why did this happen? That night went down exactly like I've said here and to the police. He says he showed people pics on my injuries and they all agreed that he couldn't have done it. He says he has had his butt handed to him standing up for women. Yet that night as we left the bar... .he went after (yelling and swearing) at some drunk girl who insulted me... .but I calmly dealt with.

Everyone does seem totally fooled by his bs but me. And I can only imagine the lies and bull___ he has said about me. Which honestly? I don't really care.

But that said... .I would really appreciate some opinions on what others think took place here?

And what is the likelihood of him popping up again? I don't ask because that's my hope, it's my fear.

Sorry this was so long.

[gotbushels]

Hi Makoa   and welcome.

He was in and out of hospital for months, for self harm and suicide attempts (at least six times?).

Handling a person acting on suicidal ideas is jarring for the partner and cause serious confusion.

I had a sneaking suspicion he was pinning after his ex wife, and I eventually found this was true. He asked her back several times, while we were together.

I too have had my partner pursue previous relationships while together. I found it very difficult as loyalty is important to me in an intimate relationship. Where in other relationships such an act would receive quite a "cut and dry", when this happens with a relationship with a pwBPD, things may not be so simple for the partner.

Tried to kill himself, when she got a new man but swore up and down he was fine with it. I was hurt by this, but I let it go because he wasnt in treatment and I know being divorced myself, it's hard.

I was hurt too by this, for a few months. Something that helped me handle my hurt over this was seeing that this kind of chain of events (probably 'triangulation' probably had very little to do with me, my performance in the relationship, or our history. pwBPDs often carry these difficult patterns forward with an origin before your relationship.

He had a meltdown over shopping in order to cook for me ... .
He seemed to take my saying ... .as put down? Or insult. ... .
He was so angry by the time we got to the car... .
Then as we drove out the parking lot he lost his mind over some lady pulling out ... .
I wanted to go home then and there.

These strange chains of prolonged anger are disconcerting and confusing to watch. I think feeling threatened at such deep expressions of anger--I think is of course a normal reaction.

But that said... .I would really appreciate some opinions on what others think took place here?

I'm also interested in others' takes on your sharing.

That night he drank two bottles of wine, and had slipped into quasi phycosis. He was on the phone with me, screaming at voices he heard, people who werent there and seeing people who had died. He was talking about demons, and quoting the Bible... .something he had never done before. I was terrified. He basically blamed me. And the navy Dr put him on a heavy medication to calm him down.

parents ... .he said beat him horribly ... .
My ex got extremely drunk (we were all drinking) but he was wasted (the meds likely still in his system). ... .
He peed himself. ... .[drank more]
He then started to grab knives. ... .
And that's when I bear hugged him from behind, ... .
He finally broke my grip on him by clawing my arm and biting my arm... while growling.

And what is the likelihood of him popping up again? I don't ask because that's my hope, it's my fear.

I think once you can see you've got a fear of violence from an encounter with him, it becomes more about what you can do if he does show up. For the time being I think you can follow the idea not to "engage and enrage". Then I'd encourage you to follow this link. To chip in a bit, commonwealth country armed forces sites sometimes have a 24 hour physician. If so, you can probably contact him after hours by going through the site's officer.

Take extra care and I hope to hear more of your sharing.

[Makoa]

Thank you for your reply, especially after such a long read! I am curious if anyone can tell me more what BPD traits/defense mechanisms/? Took place here. Is it possible he is saying it never happened out of shame? Or ? And him bringing it back up, when things were ok... .gaslighting? I know that what truly bothers me is being called a liar. It is pretty much the worst thing to be called in my book, because I grew up in a very deceitful environment and I've actively always made sure that once I got out of that... .it would never be my world again.

I really did miss my ex at first, but now I see that I detached from a long time ago. And stayed more to do with my need to fix something I could not fix or help.

[once removed]

hi Makoa, i want to join gotbushels and say

you certainly have been through the wringer. im sorry about the circumstances that brought you here, but i am glad you found us.

Thank you for your reply, especially after such a long read! I am curious if anyone can tell me more what BPD traits/defense mechanisms/? Took place here. Is it possible he is saying it never happened out of shame?

from the behavior you describe, this person sounds a bit higher on the spectrum of disordered behavior. the drinking sounds like pouring gasoline on a fire.

we can only speculate as to what is/was going on in his mind, but through the lens of BPD there are some possible explanations:

1. yes, BPD is often referred to as a "shame based disorder", that revolves around feeling shame, and entrenched defense mechanisms to avoid feeling shame. compartmentalization is one. denial is one. projection is one. there are others.

2. he was pretty loaded. it makes sense that he wouldnt remember.

3. weve all been emotionally overwhelmed before. when we are, you would be surprised at what we might not remember from the episode, in a state of fight or flight. this is especially true for people with BPD.

understanding what i had been through was invaluable to me in my recovery, and helped me to depersonalize what was very hurtful behavior. i encourage you to spend some time reading through the lessons here, some of the workshops, and the Library: Psychology questions and answers board which go into great detail about some of the behaviors most of us have experienced. a good quick link is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331266#msg1331266

i hear your concern about him popping up again. are you safe?

[Makoa]

Thank you for the warm welcome and links! I have read a lot on here over the last year of dealing with this.

Am I safe? I don't know to be honest. I have a peace bond and live in another country than he does. Would he come here? I cannot say 'no' for sure. He has made contact with me since I posted repeatedly, via a mobile app game we played together (with others, but there is achat/pm feature). He basically was nasty to me, brought up the Marines thing again. And then randomly tried to add me a contact in the game, so he could pm me. When I ignored it, he blocked me. Then proceeded to msg me from his secondary account. Told me he was leaving the alliance we were in together, and how he was no longer my problem or concern. I did reply, saying that I was sorry he felt that was necessary. He replied saying not half as sorry as he was? He also mentioned that the more he thought about things, it was all just a game. And he got bored of playing it. Implying I was the one playing the game.

I know I can't make sense of his actions. I guess I just want to figure out some of it, so I can heal. But also know maybe the likelihood of him showing up here. He has in the past when things were good said I would not know when he came here... .that I was his. I couldnt get rid of him if I tried. He had literally spent hours calling me non stop, once he called 66 times in a few hours.

I know this may sound naive, but given my history with abuse. I don't feel like what he did was done to be abusive. It was absolutely not ok. But he was not only drunk but out of his mind. I don't think he even knew it was me, bear hugging him to be honest. And I really think it's simply easier for him to make me out to be a liar (which he is great at... .lying) than admit that he did it.

Everyone he discards, his ex wife... .friends... .it's always their fault. He speaks about how he wishes his ex would be hit by a bus. He is never too blame. He says sorry sometimes, but only for minor things. If he can be the victim, he will and to the fullest extent of it.

He really believes he is ok. But yet he can't see his own kids without supervision. Hes self harm is alarmingly devastating. His cut his arm that badly twice. And I firmly believe, he was causing damage to it by making the stitches split open, and needing surgery four different times because of it.

It's mind boggling to me how I can sit here... .writing this... .knowing how utterly disordered he is, and still feel like I need to help. I won't. Because I know that's simply something inside of myself I need to resolve on my own, not by being sucked back in.

Thanks for listening. 

[gotbushels]

Thank you for the warm welcome and links! I have read a lot on here over the last year of dealing with this.

You can find support here Makoa, we're here to help each other after all.

Am I safe? I don't know to be honest.

I think this is what would be your #1 priority. What this means is making sure you've taken steps for yourself. You might not have to do very much depending on your level of risk. 

But also know maybe the likelihood of him showing up here. ... .

If your feelings are telling you there's a risk, then I encourage you to have a look at the MOSAIC on the "Threat Assessment" section in here.

I guess I just want to figure out some of it, so I can heal.

I appreciate what this is like for you. Me too, understanding was a big part of my healing. Also, Ps and Ts are good support through this time, even if you're not the BP.

If he can be the victim, he will and to the fullest extent of it.

Yes, often a pwBPD at a breakup phase disclaims as much responsibility for their contributions as possible.

He really believes he is ok. ... .

Yes, they may vehemently insist on this. Please have a look at the dysfunctional dance article in 3.1 below. 

He has ... .
He replied saying not half as sorry as he was? ... .
Implying I was the one playing the game.

From your sharing here, I cautiously think it's quite a good sign. From the link once removed sent you, you can find answers in Lesson 3, "3.1 It takes two to tango". From the dysfunctional dance discussion--basically you can see the "expectation to act" like a ball. He is punting the ball into your court and expects you to say something. But what seems to work is to see that these are efforts to "triangulate" you into a drama--then let the ball simply roll out of the court. The trick is that if it does, you win. 

But he was not only drunk but out of his mind. I don't think he even knew it was me, bear hugging him to be honest.

I have been in violent situations before with my ex. I understand this a bit. Yes, he may not have been in a position to "know" it was you. Many pwBPDs have dissociative elements that make them not appear to be what we think they are. But so what? So--looking back--I would encourage you to be compassionate: listen to your feelings. You saying it may be "naive" of you may be your feelings telling you to consider how will Makoa avoid the situation altogether vs Makoa paying a price for a poor punt.

I am no longer in a physically violent relationship, and I'll tell you forward that you can have hope of a fantastic relationship without your partner striking you.

... .still feel like I need to help. I won't. Because I know that's simply something inside of myself I need to resolve on my own, not by being sucked back in.

Fab--head on your shoulders.    I'll step forward and share with you that this can feel really hard sometimes. It's been said that being the non in a breakup situation with pwBPD can take a very strong character. I encourage you that you can do this.   

Enjoy your peace.