Told her on Friday it’s over...now for the logistics

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Make it enforceable, such as with Leverage.  

FD makes a really good point about leverage.

The injury of losing control will likely not get easier for your ex. If she is like my ex, she will get stuck in a loop of eternal rehashing, incapable of repairing and recovering and moving on. Many of us found that our exes would stonewall and obstruct as a way to stay negatively engaged.

It took me four trips to court to get the title of my car transferred to my name, and four trips to court to get my ex to refi the house that I gave him. It cost him nothing (lawyer) to go to court, whereas for me it was hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars.

Anything you have that might motivate her, wherever possible try to hold onto it until she has abided the terms of the order.

Family law court is terrible at enforcing orders, so we have to figure out loopholes to move things forward.

[livednlearned]

Make it enforceable, such as with Leverage.  

FD makes a really good point about leverage.

The injury of losing control will likely not get easier for your ex. If she is like my ex, she will get stuck in a loop of eternal rehashing, incapable of repairing and recovering and moving on. Many of us found that our exes would stonewall and obstruct as a way to stay negatively engaged.

It took me four trips to court to get the title of my car transferred to my name, and four trips to court to get my ex to refi the house that I gave him. It cost him nothing (lawyer) to go to court, whereas for me it was hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars.

Anything you have that might motivate her, wherever possible try to hold onto it until she has abided the terms of the order.

Family law court is terrible at enforcing orders, so we have to figure out loopholes to move things forward.

[mama-wolf]

If she has any claim to the house, such as being on the deed, make sure she signs quit claim deed relinquishing her marital or financial interest in the home. 

Also, make sure a check isn't written from your retirement account and handed to her.  Probably this needs to be done by way of a QDRO, a Qualified Domestic Relations Order. 

Generally one parent is designated the Primary Parent or Residential Parent or some similar term.  Is that her?  With equal time and joint custody it may not legally mean much more than that the children attend schools based on where she lives.

Also, is there any risk of her later choosing to send the children to private schools?

Thank you for these points, FD!  Yes, the deed is being prepared by my L, and will be held in trust by her L until I complete refinancing.  And absolutely (in part thanks to similar advice I have seen you provide someone else on this board) the 401(k) funds will be transferred by QDRO only. 

With regards to Primary Parent, I thought I was clear on that point, but guess I'm really not sure how that's handled here, so I did send a follow-up question to my L.  I take it that with us electing to use a parent coordinator then that person will be the tie-breaker.  But I will definitely get further clarification!

It is unlikely that she would try the private school route (neither of us has had much interest in that option for the kids, nor did we have any interest in the cost)... .but I understand the parent coordinator to be my resource--at least for now--to prevent that from happening.

The injury of losing control will likely not get easier for your ex. If she is like my ex, she will get stuck in a loop of eternal rehashing, incapable of repairing and recovering and moving on. Many of us found that our exes would stonewall and obstruct as a way to stay negatively engaged.

Yes lnl, I can very much see the struggle with loss of control.  Right now it is only manifesting itself in many different emails about all of the time she has had to spend in getting different financial details squared away on her end.  And two very snippy and slightly long messages through the co-parenting web-service we signed up for. 

One of those messages was about packing the kids up for their time with her this week.  She had sent a text last night about toiletries they didn't need to bring.  She was supposed to bring the kids by the house this evening (I'm away on a business trip) to get their clothes, etc. When I sent her a message this morning that clean clothes were folded and laid out for her to choose from, she fired off a long message about how I was supposed to know that her text about the toiletries meant she expected me to pack them up completely and she didn't have time to spend packing them up after driving all the way to get them and to the house to pick up their things.

Then later, in response to me mentioning a possibility of FaceTime with the kids this evening (because they had asked me when I dropped them off at school on my way to the airport), she fired off another snippy message about how too much FaceTime would be like "picking at the scab" and that we should set some guidelines.  She complained about how I didn't encourage D9 enough to talk to her on the TWO occasions his past weekend that she wanted to FaceTime the kids (the kids didn't ask for the second round and actually said no at first), and how I made S5 think it wasn't important since I left him to talk to her alone and didn't sit with him to keep the conversation going (I went upstairs to work on laundry and give them privacy).  She tried to tell me that the contact was for the benefit of the kids and the non-custodial parent.

For both messages, I tried to use BIFF as much as possible.  I didn't take the bait on several statements she made, and generally stayed as friendly as I could while still being firm.  For example, I will not be obligated to sit and "chat" with her for the sake of making a show for the kids.  That first conversation was bad enough for me, thank you.

So, yes... .I can see her seriously struggling with the fact that she does not control me anymore.  And I'm starting to struggle myself (A LOT) with the realization of just how much she did control me.

mw

[kells76]

Hi mama-wolf, I'm just dropping in on your thread 

This sounds like something important to nail down:

I take it that with us electing to use a parent coordinator then that person will be the tie-breaker.  But I will definitely get further clarification!

I could envision a time in the future when the PC is gone -- either retires/moves/whatever, or maybe you and xSpouse agree "Things are going great! We think we can handle this without PC". Then maybe a big disagreement comes up, and because PC has left with his/her tiebreaker vote, it's just you and xSpouse in a stalemate. Now sounds like a good time to tie up ends that could be loose in the future.

One way to think about it is this: it's not "mean" for you explicitly to be the primary parent. Some other members here have had a tough time being in the situation where they have final say about the other parent's parenting time, or schedule with the kids, or whatnot. It can feel like you're being "unfair" to the BPD parent to have that role. But think about it this way -- which one of you, having the primary parent role, would be more flexible? More willing to support the kids' relationship with the other parent? You, or her?

Let your sense of equality and fairness (tempered with safety and reality) shine through AFTER positioning yourself to be the one with the final say about what's good for the kids. Does that make sense?

Interesting opportunity about the FaceTime stuff, too:

she fired off another snippy message about how too much FaceTime would be like "picking at the scab" and that we should set some guidelines

I wonder if you can "see" her bet and "raise" her? "Sure! Good idea about setting FaceTime guidelines. How about A, B, and C?" (and then get it written into the parenting plan?)

I'm thinking about this because I wonder -- and you know her best -- if she is the kind of parent who would try to abuse FaceTime by making constant calls, stretching the length, and generally trying to insert herself into your parenting time. You can think about if making some enforceable guidelines (which are the same at both houses) now would help down the road.

Hope this helps, and nice to meet you

kells76

[ForeverDad]

I sometimes write about my son's phone calls in our early years of separation and divorce.  They were ordered.  She almost always took her time, me and son, not so much.  He was interested in phone calls only when he had something to say.  He rearely started a call.  I recall one time, possibly still in kindergarten or early grade school, he called me so excited, he had to tell me about a near-accident he saw while they were driving. 

Conversely, when I was on vacation in the mountains I called her every few days and let them talk.  Lawyer had called saying she had tried for an Amber Alert on us and to please call her sometimes.  Evidently that was a deal he had worked out with the sheriff's investigator.  I replied she could have called us directly.  Lawyer said, "Yeah, but just do it this way, she doesn't want to call you."  I recall one of the calls where 4yo son said "bye" to her six times before she stopped talking and hung up.

[mama-wolf]

I could envision a time in the future when the PC is gone -- either retires/moves/whatever, or maybe you and xSpouse agree "Things are going great! We think we can handle this without PC". Then maybe a big disagreement comes up, and because PC has left with his/her tiebreaker vote, it's just you and xSpouse in a stalemate. Now sounds like a good time to tie up ends that could be loose in the future.

But think about it this way -- which one of you, having the primary parent role, would be more flexible? More willing to support the kids' relationship with the other parent? You, or her?

Hi kells76 and thank you for dropping in!  Yes, I will absolutely follow up with my L to have a better understanding and get better structure around tiebreaker considerations--especially as they might be addressed in the future if no PC is in place.  I am definitely the more flexible and (in my mind at least) fair of the two of us, and would prefer to be in the position of primary parent mainly because of how controlling my stbx is.

(Side note:  It's funny... .I can't figure out how to refer to her now.  Is she still my stbx since the divorce won't be final for another year?  Or is she now my ex?)

She almost always took her time, me and son, not so much.  He was interested in phone calls only when he had something to say.  He rearely started a call. 

I recall one of the calls where 4yo son said "bye" to her six times before she stopped talking and hung up.

FD, what you describe sounds very similar to D9's behavior as far as her not wanting to engage, but my stbx really wanting to talk to the kids (for her own sake, but telling herself it's for the sake of the kids).  I know this is hard on her, and I try to keep that in mind with each interaction.  We're still in a transition period, and I do expect we things to settle down over the next couple of months... .I just need there to be a balance.

I know all of this is particularly hard on her due to her own emotional issues, currently living with her parents until lining up someplace more long-term, and on top of it all she was rear-ended the day before our mediation.  While the car is currently functional, the rear bumper and trunk are smashed and there's a chance the car will be totaled.  That car had been paid off, but now she may end up with a car payment on top of all her other financial considerations.  The good news that with the mediation being completed, she can't come after me for more money for the time being.

mw