i'm glad to let her go to her newest 'perfect' guy.

[Forearmed]

OK, here goes (and i'll start with a general statement before telling part of my story) :

In my experience as a good guy (not ‘nice’ guy – as I have NO problem calling out maddening behaviour ) BPD woman are simply increasing 'no-win' propositions. And how much you decide to take from them is factored by your degree of natural co- dependency.   observe, like all pathologicals, *they are primarily guided by EXTREME self-interest* but this is dressed -up in their own particular way. i.e. If your  emotions always dialled- up x 5! So e.g. You might wake up one morning and feel pissed- off. Well, her version of that is to feel she can’t handle life and she hates you!

In my case of leaving my casual BPD situation a few months back, she [an initially innocent waif borderline type] was making enthusiastic plans to see me one week – but a combination of her mother suddenly taking badly ill (on top of working hard and being stressed, tbf) meant that the commitment of having to see me became the LAST thing she wanted to do! The fact, her emotional self -absorption meant she blocked out my two weeks of ‘wonderful’ (her words ) effort to help her over her own illness the month before was just BPD life!

My personal situation also hasn’t been easy for her as i live with my ex -partner (pending full separation) so the triggers were plentiful on that issue alone! Ultimately, though, my  years of understanding the personality disorder means i’m happy to move on. It was the fifth devaluation that did it for me. This involved increasing passive -agg moves;  silent treatments / disappearances / cancelled dates that 'she' initiated / and a growing inabilty to answer initial texts (so she could argue I send 'so many' when she had no issues early days! ; ) / frequent excuses (headache , eyes, illness, forgetfulness, etc). Even with the relationship being an arms length one in my mind (she was happy to stay 'friends' this latest devaluation was enough for me. And I set her very, very  straight on that fact! The early GREAT sex (our chemistry was a greater than normal attraction for me, tbh) became a bargaining tool of hers  while she practiced increased intimacy  avoidance!  Our last conversation was her crying down the phone  after being upset by her mother's uncaring behaviour  and she disappeared for a week - before texting she had to configure a new phone, !  It’s just not fun being at the ebb and flow of another’s emotional discord – esp. when you know it’s only going to get worse, more irrational and the idealization phase is gone!

Personally, i'm glad to let her go to her newest 'perfect' guy. The knowledge that he has no chance past the honeymoon phase is for him to learn... .#onwardsupwards

[Skip]

So was this just a FWB relationship? Good sex?

Did she mean anything to you?  :)id this hurt your feelings.

You say it no big deal, is that like 10 CC


Date: 5-1975Minutes: 6:00
I'm Not in Love | 10CC

What happened here? You ended it when her mother got ill and she drifted?

Thanks for the responses, guys. This wasn't a personally heavy post from me as I've had a few BPD  experiences and have the self -esteem to call those circs quickly!  My experience with the silent treatment was after meeting a Waif (or quiet) borderline. They are far less likely to act out - preferring to act in or withdraw. It actually became almost fascinating study of sorts

It's an unusual statement. What attracts you to this personality type?

[Forearmed]

I find the 10cc video link unusual... .: )

If you're old enough to have been out there you will naturally meet women on the BPD spectrum. It's not behaviours  I would have recognised 20 years ago - I would have just known things didn't feel right with some women and exit pretty quickly - so there's no great attraction.  

My situation with my 'waif' was a new experience as her personality was initially innocent / engaging with none of the obvious acting out. That changes as described in my post and it's over the months you realise certain things are well out of the norm.

Note. I didn't say i was married above (post heading was re-edited by the site). The sexual intensity / connection was genuine / fun and the rapport great but the BPD does inevitably eat into that in many ways - just not in a raging fashion. Her 360 deg. 'sudden' need to be alone, due to:  her feeling engulfed / job stresses / mother issue / my home sitch - definitely was a real surprise and definitely didn't feel good (due to a really close friendship rapport between us). That said, when you aren't tied into a proper relationship there's a point where you start observing the cycles and realising what is going on. It's when too much disrespect / inconsideration / need to control rears its head then even the friendship is doomed eventually.  

[Skip]

Curious, why do you still live with the prior girlfriend? How long have you been broken up with her? How long did you date the girl with BPD traits?

she was making enthusiastic plans to see me one week – but a combination of her mother suddenly taking badly ill (on top of working hard and being stressed, tbf) meant that the commitment of having to see me became the LAST thing she wanted to do! The fact, her emotional self -absorption meant she blocked out my two weeks of ‘wonderful’ (her words ) effort to help her over her own illness the month before was just BPD life!

You broke it off because she prioritized the illness of her mother over a visit to you? Or was it more than that?  You say it was a casual relationship - so you were not in a committed relationship?

[Cromwell]

I start to feel as if I dodged some BPD bullets when I was younger too. Its interesting to notice some of the behaviours in hindsight, I guess my ability to have had zero tolerance for them in my younger years was the advantage.

It is making me reflect more on this idea of being a "caregiver personality", its not something I intended but as you say with the emotions * 5, they need to be reciprocated and thats what I found myself having to do. The other option is leave. If your not a caregiver personality when you enter the relationship it is demanded that at least have to role play as one. In my case aswell, everything seemed fine to start, the demands then started slowly and then ramped themselves up to a constant baseline of fulfilling never ending demands emotionally.

I wonder if there is a heavy amount of hiding or masking the disorder until it becomes disinhibited when you become securely enmeshed in. Is that part of a concious manipulation that has been refined over time from past experience of what will be accepted and not, or is it something else?

[Forearmed]

Curious, why do you still live with the prior girlfriend? How long have you been broken up with her? How long did you date the girl with BPD traits?

You broke it off because she prioritized the illness of her mother over a visit to you? Or was it more than that?  You say it was a casual relationship - so you were not in a committed relationship?

More a co-habitation situation where various financial commitments / life restrictions kept us in the same property after the credit crunch. An odd mixture of generally supportive relationship  - but intermittent very bad downs due to communication differences - meant giving up on intimacy years ago.

No, I stated my BPD waif broke off the relationship (and gave the reasons above). Her mother's sudden illness was just an additional tipping point, i'd say. Some of her points were absolutely fair given my home circs - which would have triggered her BPD further. It was a casual relationship with genuinely great rapport (which was building). To move into committed  situation would have needed her able to handle a genuinely reciprocal two -way relationship. That would n't have been her, in reality (unsurprisingly : ).  I think I'd have left this one alone quite quickly under normal circumstances as her traits would have emerged a lot quicker.

'Arms -length' allowed us to survive pretty well (inc. trying to manage the BPD) for about 16 months - a result, IMO, . The 'friendship' continued for a diminishing further 8 months.      

  

[Forearmed]

I start to feel as if I dodged some BPD bullets when I was younger too. Its interesting to notice some of the behaviours in hindsight, I guess my ability to have had zero tolerance for them in my younger years was the advantage.

It is making me reflect more on this idea of being a "caregiver personality", its not something I intended but as you say with the emotions * 5, they need to be reciprocated and thats what I found myself having to do. The other option is leave. If your not a caregiver personality when you enter the relationship it is demanded that at least have to role play as one. In my case aswell, everything seemed fine to start, the demands then started slowly and then ramped themselves up to a constant baseline of fulfilling never ending demands emotionally.

I wonder if there is a heavy amount of hiding or masking the disorder until it becomes disinhibited when you become securely enmeshed in. Is that part of a concious manipulation that has been refined over time from past experience of what will be accepted and not, or is it something else?

Cromwell - I can only agree with you (plus you clearly have much more long -term experience than me  : ) I'm happy to be a strong, protective male naturally, but definitely not where the 'jump through hoops' demands never end! Again, I see the red flags very easily now. I'm far from 'out there' these days and am quite happy with quality friendly female interaction in my life if there is no romantic potential (not easy to be serious in my current situation anyway). 

I just feel the BPD is so motivated by infatuation that she naturally wants to be the best 'her' ever for her new interest (just as out nons are when in love... .but dialled up even more, ). It's just it appears to last only as long as the honeymoon period in your BPD's mind. Plus, if you are an independent, strong male, that will already cause underlying problems for her. So after her personal  honeymoon period ends the 'behaviours' inevitably become far more prevalent/ regular.

My take anyway... .: )

[Skip]

Some of her points were absolutely fair given my home circs - which would have triggered her BPD further.

Probably trigger anyone. I know that when I was going through my divorce, and even thought I was out of the house for 2 years, it put a serious damper on a relationship I engaged in. I didn't see the significance at he time, but I did after the fact.

It's hard to lose someone you care about. Regardless of the extenuating situations in many relationships here, heartbreak is heartbreak. It one of the hardest things for humans to understand or cope with. I'm sorry you have endured this.

Like you, I have encountered a few people with BPD traits in my life... .I think all in the last 10 years or so. Learning that 29% of the adult population has an addiction or diagnosable mental illness in any given year, has given me a respect and need for understanding human nature that I didn't have before.

[Forearmed]

Probably trigger anyone. I know that when I was going through my divorce, and even thought I was out of the house for 2 years, it put a serious damper on a relationship I engaged in. I didn't see the significance at he time, but I did after the fact.

It's hard to lose someone you care about. Regardless of the extenuating situations in many relationships here, heartbreak is heartbreak. It one of the hardest things for humans to understand or cope with. I'm sorry you have endured this.

Like you, I have encountered a few people with BPD traits in my life... .I think all in the last 10 years or so. Learning that 29% of the adult population has an addiction or diagnosable mental illness in any given year, has given me a respect and need for understanding human nature that I didn't have before.

Absolutely. My circs have affected other more normal potential relationship circs so there is now more of a  reticence to get involved.

Like i say, it still could have only gone one way - however i was living - due to my own personality characteristics v even a covert BPD. My past knowledge of BPD dampened a BIG chunk of the upset so i consider myself one of the luckier one in this case.

[Skip]

Like i say, it still could have only gone one way - however i was living - due to my own personality characteristics v even a covert BPD. My past knowledge of BPD dampened a BIG chunk of the upset so i consider myself one of the luckier one in this case.

What are your thoughts here?

[Forearmed]

What are your thoughts here?

Relatively simple ones: We know BPD's typically cycle through idealisation / devalue / discard phases. If I was living on my own, I simply wouldn't be compromising when the 'games' begin past idealisation.

A decent enough lifestyle, social life and self-esteem arms you against co-dependent traits / attempts to leverage you unfairly.

[once removed]

My past knowledge of BPD dampened a BIG chunk of the upset so i consider myself one of the luckier one in this case.

i had some prior experience myself. although they were all very different people, they did each have some common dysfunction that manifested in similar ways.

I simply wouldn't be compromising when the 'games' begin past idealisation.

A decent enough lifestyle, social life and self-esteem arms you against co-dependent traits / attempts to leverage you unfairly.

do you think this is part of the draw? get in, enjoy the good times, but keep a foot out/dont get too involved?

[Cromwell]

If I was living on my own, I simply wouldn't be compromising when the 'games' begin past idealisation.

The problem is how do you know at which point the idealisation begins, is it the first date or the fifth, or just the start of a serious relationship. Any attempt to de-escalate at any given point would make very little difference, if any at all?

I look back and I know that the adrenaline hook was something that hadnt initially been the spark, but almost became the over-riding spark. I could find an equally attractive girl without the disordered behaviour. That fix based on the anticipation aswell as the drama itself was the hook.

So once you get embedded with that one, its a powerful one to not discard, if you get drawn in by that type of thing.

Otherwise, if its just about sex and good times and then leaving when the problems surface, fine and well as long as you can assume it can be done without being stalked, harrased, smear campaigned or your car set on fire.

After what ive went through I wouldnt ever risk again, its not only from my viewpoint, I cant get into the head of the reality of how traumatic it is for pwBPD to first idolise and then feel shut into emptiness. From what ive read up until now, its excruciating and goes beyond my comprehension of just a woman scorned which is the closest thing I could rationalise it as.

[Forearmed]

i had some prior experience myself. although they were all very different people, they did each have some common dysfunction that manifested in similar ways.

do you think this is part of the draw? get in, enjoy the good times, but keep a foot out/dont get too involved?

Once removed... .it's a wierd one. I don't try to dabble with BPD but I find it's crazily prevalent at a certain level of attractiveness now (and I do make the distinction between entitled behaviours and PDs, btw). Your standard BPD has no chance with me as I'm not psychologically made to meekly accept mad acting -out behaviours - it's a total turn -off. And even the sex being good wouldn't keep me for long. 'Amazing' might do... .only if she's a waif / covert  style,  : )

[Forearmed]

The problem is how do you know at which point the idealisation begins, is it the first date or the fifth, or just the start of a serious relationship. Any attempt to de-escalate at any given point would make very little difference, if any at all?

I look back and I know that the adrenaline hook was something that hadnt initially been the spark, but almost became the over-riding spark. I could find an equally attractive girl without the disordered behaviour. That fix based on the anticipation aswell as the drama itself was the hook.

So once you get embedded with that one, its a powerful one to not discard, if you get drawn in by that type of thing.

Otherwise, if its just about sex and good times and then leaving when the problems surface, fine and well as long as you can assume it can be done without being stalked, harrased, smear campaigned or your car set on fire.

After what ive went through I wouldnt ever risk again, its not only from my viewpoint, I cant get into the head of the reality of how traumatic it is for pwBPD to first idolise and then feel shut into emptiness. From what ive read up until now, its excruciating and goes beyond my comprehension of just a woman scorned which is the closest thing I could rationalise it as.

Cromwell - I hear you. In my experience, idealisation red flags rear very quickly. i.e. No, you can't be in love with me after two weeks (and expect me to think that's normal). No, I'm not perfect (ditto). No, I don't want to speak to you for hours a day every day (ditto).

I have a life and a sense of perspective on a decently- paced, mature yet fun relationship. That doesn't make me fireproof as i've known enough 'disappointments' (just not 'devastation' for a long while, thankfully). I guess  knowledge, experience and intuition  means I just don't get involved when certain behaviours [that make me uncomfortable] are displayed.

Looks are a hook but not THE hook anymore... .not as a grown man anyway!    

[Shawnlam]

OK, here goes (and i'll start with a general statement before telling part of my story) :

In my experience as a good guy (not ‘nice’ guy – as I have NO problem calling out maddening behaviour ) BPD woman are simply increasing 'no-win' propositions. And how much you decide to take from them is factored by your degree of natural co- dependency.   observe, like all pathologicals, *they are primarily guided by EXTREME self-interest* but this is dressed -up in their own particular way. i.e. If your  emotions always dialled- up x 5! So e.g. You might wake up one morning and feel pissed- off. Well, her version of that is to feel she can’t handle life and she hates you!

In my case of leaving my casual BPD situation a few months back, she [an initially innocent waif borderline type] was making enthusiastic plans to see me one week – but a combination of her mother suddenly taking badly ill (on top of working hard and being stressed, tbf) meant that the commitment of having to see me became the LAST thing she wanted to do! The fact, her emotional self -absorption meant she blocked out my two weeks of ‘wonderful’ (her words ) effort to help her over her own illness the month before was just BPD life!

My personal situation also hasn’t been easy for her as i live with my ex -partner (pending full separation) so the triggers were plentiful on that issue alone! Ultimately, though, my  years of understanding the personality disorder means i’m happy to move on. It was the fifth devaluation that did it for me. This involved increasing passive -agg moves;  silent treatments / disappearances / cancelled dates that 'she' initiated / and a growing inabilty to answer initial texts (so she could argue I send 'so many' when she had no issues early days! ; ) / frequent excuses (headache , eyes, illness, forgetfulness, etc). Even with the relationship being an arms length one in my mind (she was happy to stay 'friends' this latest devaluation was enough for me. And I set her very, very  straight on that fact! The early GREAT sex (our chemistry was a greater than normal attraction for me, tbh) became a bargaining tool of hers  while she practiced increased intimacy  avoidance!  Our last conversation was her crying down the phone  after being upset by her mother's uncaring behaviour  and she disappeared for a week - before texting she had to configure a new phone, !  It’s just not fun being at the ebb and flow of another’s emotional discord – esp. when you know it’s only going to get worse, more irrational and the idealization phase is gone!

Personally, i'm glad to let her go to her newest 'perfect' guy. The knowledge that he has no chance past the honeymoon phase is for him to learn... .#onwardsupwards

The important take away from this is you realized it would go nowhere and needed out.A lot of people don’t realize what they are dealing with when it comes to BPD and then try “adjusting “ once they read up on it... .like that hasn’t been done before.Once partners realize the only person that can help their partner with BPD is their partner and nobody else , things will start to look up.Working on ourselves is the only response to what we can do ,when we leave or end a relationship like this.It doesn’t hurt any less since you love them , but living in chaos or living as someone else to please them will only cause that love to turn to hate.

I’ve read many many theories on the internet way back when I was still in “white knight I can fix this mode” on how to “make it work” .Everything from the alpha male strategy to narcissist strategy has been thrown out there to counter partners with BPD,never once a success story.The ONLY times I’ve read a relationship starts to work or become livable is when the patient with BPD seeks help themselves and sticks with the treatment.That just proves further my point in fixing yourself you will realize why you may have stayed in this relationship,or why it didn’t work or why you attracted her in the first place.I believe today you attract what you project and usually this is a double edged sword.You often read stories on here or the net where needy guys attract needy woman (most BPD’s).But in reality needy people don’t need more neediness they just think they do,if anything they need a strong person,calming,centered,in control, everything they are not .It eventually rubs off on the needy person and they learn by instinct and sub conscious absorption ... ,scientifically proven fact.Human beings are one of the few species on this planet that can do this .It is why in the tribal days few people in every tribe went out and became experts at certain things ( hunting,gathering,what to eat,how to build ).Once each tribal member came back they could teach the other tribal member what they learnt from their experiences faster than it took them to learn it... .because the whole experience process of where to go to learn this new skill wasn’t required to teach the next one.This theory is the same when it comes to emotions and personalities.Ever work in an office where the boss was negative and grumpy all the time and complained about the company? What happens? Within 6-9months everyone in that place is grumpy or quitting?

So as off topic as all that was , you attract what you project.That pertains to us of course but not humans with BPD they are stuck in a perpetual loop of behavior they cycle through.Now knowing this doesn’t it seem almost crazy to hate people with this illness? I know I can’t be mad at them ,it’s not exactly their fault they developed this way ,the circumstances as to how they became like this  are endless.With that said wishing them well and moving on is the best one can hope for , those in therapy like my ex who just started , fingers crossed for her that one day she will or could have a normal life.

You are doing the best thing for you and her,just remember what happened has happened,what will you learn from this is the most important question?

[Cromwell]

Cromwell - I hear you. In my experience, idealisation red flags rear very quickly. i.e. No, you can't be in love with me after two weeks (and expect me to think that's normal). No, I'm not perfect (ditto). No, I don't want to speak to you for hours a day every day (ditto).

I have a life and a sense of perspective on a decently- paced, mature yet fun relationship. That doesn't make me fireproof as i've known enough 'disappointments' (just not 'devastation' for a long while, thankfully). I guess  knowledge, experience and intuition  means I just don't get involved when certain behaviours [that make me uncomfortable] are displayed.

Looks are a hook but not THE hook anymore... .not as a grown man anyway!    

Well said, despite what has happened I feel far more secure and strong in myself that I can say no to whatever sweet tempting delights are an offer. The only thing I feel a bit of a regret is in some ways losing a bit of happy go lucky innocence ive had. Sure I always expected to split up at some point, maybe even if it is someone who meant a lot you could call it a bitter disappointment, but generally, its nothing cant get over with time. Yet this has been a complete brainwash. They only way I come close to making much sense of her is to forget about it, its like she is from another planet. There is no logic that can be applied. but I get some comfort in that at the same time, I realise that the hurt as much as the adoration is just indiscriminate acting out, the biggest thing to walk away and realise it truly is not personal attacks. Even if they have in their mind painted black, that still is not a true personal attack but a dysregulation. Its why after so much carnage they can pick up the phone, call you next morning and ask are you coming up for breakfast, as if nothing had happened at all the night before but youve spent it sleepless, trauma stricken and emotionally crashed down.

glad you sound like youve coped with it well and see the experience advantages. Takes a strong mind.

[Forearmed]

The important take away from this is you realized it would go nowhere and needed out.A lot of people don’t realize what they are dealing with when it comes to BPD and then try “adjusting “ once they read up on it... .like that hasn’t been done before.Once partners realize the only person that can help their partner with BPD is their partner and nobody else , things will start to look up.Working on ourselves is the only response to what we can do ,when we leave or end a relationship like this.It doesn’t hurt any less since you love them , but living in chaos or living as someone else to please them will only cause that love to turn to hate.

I’ve read many many theories on the internet way back when I was still in “white knight I can fix this mode” on how to “make it work” .Everything from the alpha male strategy to narcissist strategy has been thrown out there to counter partners with BPD,never once a success story.The ONLY times I’ve read a relationship starts to work or become livable is when the patient with BPD seeks help themselves and sticks with the treatment.That just proves further my point in fixing yourself you will realize why you may have stayed in this relationship,or why it didn’t work or why you attracted her in the first place.I believe today you attract what you project and usually this is a double edged sword.You often read stories on here or the net where needy guys attract needy woman (most BPD’s).But in reality needy people don’t need more neediness they just think they do,if anything they need a strong person,calming,centered,in control, everything they are not .It eventually rubs off on the needy person and they learn by instinct and sub conscious absorption ... ,scientifically proven fact.Human beings are one of the few species on this planet that can do this .It is why in the tribal days few people in every tribe went out and became experts at certain things ( hunting,gathering,what to eat,how to build ).Once each tribal member came back they could teach the other tribal member what they learnt from their experiences faster than it took them to learn it... .because the whole experience process of where to go to learn this new skill wasn’t required to teach the next one.This theory is the same when it comes to emotions and personalities.Ever work in an office where the boss was negative and grumpy all the time and complained about the company? What happens? Within 6-9months everyone in that place is grumpy or quitting?

So as off topic as all that was , you attract what you project.That pertains to us of course but not humans with BPD they are stuck in a perpetual loop of behavior they cycle through.Now knowing this doesn’t it seem almost crazy to hate people with this illness? I know I can’t be mad at them ,it’s not exactly their fault they developed this way ,the circumstances as to how they became like this  are endless.With that said wishing them well and moving on is the best one can hope for , those in therapy like my ex who just started , fingers crossed for her that one day she will or could have a normal life.

You are doing the best thing for you and her,just remember what happened has happened,what will you learn from this is the most important question?

Hi ShawnIam,

Some interesting points made, so thanks.

I obviously can't speak for others but no, I don't believe i attract  what i project at all. Luckily, i've never had a problem with women and, in fact, have only had 'serious' relationships with well -adjusted women (that can be hard enough, right? ). Basically, the BPD /NPD candidates have either largely been bounced once things clearly weren't normal or they bounced me for being 'hard work' : )

My initial PD grounding was being a naive,  young man and meeting a woman - I realised ten years later - was the more typical, raging BPD. We were dating for around four months, broke up and 18 months later i found out i had an 11 month year old son! The total BS that went with all that (nothing i can be bothered going into anymore) was the early stage protection from getting involved with woman that slowly started unravelling as 'not right'.  15 years later, i had my first NPD experience and i count myself INCREDIBLY lucky that also was at arms length. She was amazing, high-functioning, but became incredible abusive and stalked destructively as best she could from 100 miles away , .

The ensuing years meant i completed enough education not to be devastated by a few with 'issues' that I slipped through. And, fortunately, able to put it down to experience : ) 

[Forearmed]

Hi ShawnIam,

Some interesting points made, so thanks.

I obviously can't speak for others but no, I don't believe i attract  what i project at all. Luckily, i've never had a problem with women and, in fact, have only had 'serious' relationships with well -adjusted women (that can be hard enough, right? ). I simply feel, as i said earlier, that at certain levels of women this is much more prevalent a syndrome today. Basically, the BPD /NPD candidates have either largely been bounced once things clearly weren't normal or they bounced me for being 'hard work' : )

My initial PD grounding was being a naive,  young man and meeting a woman - I realised ten years later - was the more typical, raging BPD. We were dating for around four months, broke up and 18 months later i found out i had an 11 month year old son! The total BS that went with all that (nothing i can be bothered going into anymore) was the early stage protection from getting involved with woman that slowly started unravelling as 'not right'.  15 years later, i had my first NPD experience and i count myself INCREDIBLY lucky that also was at arms length. She was amazing, high-functioning, but became incredible abusive and stalked destructively as best she could from 100 miles away , .

The ensuing years meant i completed enough education not to be devastated by a few with 'issues' that I slipped through. And, fortunately, able to put it down to experience : ) 

[Forearmed]

Well said, despite what has happened I feel far more secure and strong in myself that I can say no to whatever sweet tempting delights are an offer. The only thing I feel a bit of a regret is in some ways losing a bit of happy go lucky innocence ive had. Sure I always expected to split up at some point, maybe even if it is someone who meant a lot you could call it a bitter disappointment, but generally, its nothing cant get over with time. Yet this has been a complete brainwash. They only way I come close to making much sense of her is to forget about it, its like she is from another planet. There is no logic that can be applied. but I get some comfort in that at the same time, I realise that the hurt as much as the adoration is just indiscriminate acting out, the biggest thing to walk away and realise it truly is not personal attacks. Even if they have in their mind painted black, that still is not a true personal attack but a dysregulation. Its why after so much carnage they can pick up the phone, call you next morning and ask are you coming up for breakfast, as if nothing had happened at all the night before but youve spent it sleepless, trauma stricken and emotionally crashed down.

glad you sound like youve coped with it well and see the experience advantages. Takes a strong mind.

Cromwell,

Great post my man 

Yes, i am that strong 'enough' man and it hasn't always been easy (i'm only human : ) Again, add my personality and practical experience and it's a pretty good deal all-round, thank God! We can all be blindsided by that 'switch'. Certainly  my heart goes out to anyone finding that out in a serious situation... .!

[Cromwell]

Cromwell,

Great post my man 

Yes, i am that strong 'enough' man and it hasn't always been easy (i'm only human : ) Again, add my personality and practical experience and it's a pretty good deal all-round, thank God! We can all be blindsided by that 'switch'. Certainly  my heart goes out to anyone finding that out in a serious situation... .!

I like the upbeat nature of the posts, there was and still is sometimes I look over it all and think "in the big picture, you have little to complain about" but then I have to deal with the flashbacks. Id just guard myself against too many positive affirmations, sure there is a lot that I could feel that I was a strong person having been through many challenging things in life and meeting other difficult people - but if I had been so strong, why did I allow myself to get sucked in by all this? Why did I not walk away at the first major sign of disorder like a healthily strong person would have? It is these self regrets rooted in fact that have made me ultimately doubt myself the most.

I do feel stronger to have got out of it eventually, also to get help - which I found reluctant to do as a sign of weakness. So in some ways it has been the analogy of having to first endure a great deal of hardship to become stronger than before. Thanks for your upbeat post though, it does help to bring myself back to that way of looking at it.

[Forearmed]

I like the upbeat nature of the posts, there was and still is sometimes I look over it all and think "in the big picture, you have little to complain about" but then I have to deal with the flashbacks. Id just guard myself against too many positive affirmations, sure there is a lot that I could feel that I was a strong person having been through many challenging things in life and meeting other difficult people - but if I had been so strong, why did I allow myself to get sucked in by all this? Why did I not walk away at the first major sign of disorder like a healthily strong person would have? It is these self regrets rooted in fact that have made me ultimately doubt myself the most.

I do feel stronger to have got out of it eventually, also to get help - which I found reluctant to do as a sign of weakness. So in some ways it has been the analogy of having to first endure a great deal of hardship to become stronger than before. Thanks for your upbeat post though, it does help to bring myself back to that way of looking at it.

Cromwell

Your energy is good, mate : ) Trust me, us stronger ones can easily be 'initially' (I hope) caught out as any co-dependent. That 'strength' makes you able to hold on and battle away to the damaged damsel (hopefully as long as she isn't the  'acting out' type, ! ) Your strength, intelligence (emotional and cognitive)  allows you to eventually forge ahead and have a better chance of getting it right next time.

That's the blessing to carry in your head : ) 

[Cromwell]

Cromwell

Your energy is good, mate : ) Trust me, us stronger ones can easily be 'initially' (I hope) caught out as any co-dependent. That 'strength' makes you able to hold on and battle away to the damaged damsel (hopefully as long as she isn't the  'acting out' type, ! ) Your strength, intelligence (emotional and cognitive)  allows you to eventually forge ahead and have a better chance of getting it right next time.

That's the blessing to carry in your head : )  

Hi I will carry those thoughts with me they are valuable, And yea, I dont know if anything I have became a bit over-confident, there is this feeling that when I go out dating that it is like a sweet shop where I can see all the different flavours clear-as-day in front of me, it doesnt take much effort to guage anymore what I am looking for and what I am looking to avoid just as quickly. life itself has became in other areas a walk in the park, for all the stresses of modern day living, my ex replaced all of them to the point everything else id had concerns about just became 'trivial' noise.

My biggest strength isnt so much a feeling of I couldnt handle her, I handled her the best I could in the relationship, it just got to the stage where her behaviours were becoming actually dangerous, as opposed to upsetting, and I had to draw the line it started to affect my family and that wasnt fair anymore. I guess in terms of excitement I got to saturation point, her acting out wasnt anymore something I got a adrenal gland buzz from, it was sort of stuff that just creeped me out (the stalking phase during and after). I like, need , a woman who can keep me on my toes to an extent, have that spice of unpredictability, but that was just developing into nutty behaviour and I didnt know anymore how far it could even go from there. I guess I filled in the blanks by coming here and reading other accounts of what its like to be married, kids etc and I wince a bit at the thought that I was close to sleepwalking my way into wearing an albatross around my neck.

Thanks Forearmed for that much needed inspiration at the moment