To Speak or Not to Speak About Their BPD Mother..

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi,

BPD mom interferes and constantly interrupts kid's phone calls to their dad (and always has, if she can); my SS13 mostly connects by text and rarely speaks on the phone directly to his dad but when he does, his mom is often in the background nearby distracting, interrupting, butting in, chatting at them etc.
She prompted SS to phone his dad on Father's Day (usually they either forget or she makes it so they are 'busy' and it's not a priority) and within a minute of them being on the phone together, she interrupted it, announcing that their grandfather (her dad) had arrived and SS quickly cut the call short pretending he was sick with a cold and not feeling well.   

SD15 will phone her dad when her mother is not at home or she is out of the house somewhere.

When the kids were about to leave to go back to their mom's (we're two weeks back and forth all summer) I mentioned that if they call their dad, can they please find some privacy, either to go outside or go to their rooms?  I didn't mention (away from) their mother specifically but I think that they understood my meaning.     

SS13 looked a bit surprised, (went quiet) that I'd actually say something to them but I felt so protective of their dad at that moment, that I added, 'dad deserves that'... .and you should have seen the look my SS13 gave his sister,  with just this eye to eye contact, while he's tying his shoelaces.    My SD was fine, she acknowledged me (she knows what I mean) but my SS was quiet.   This is the awkwardness that exists because we never mention their mother or their 'other house' when they are with us.   There is this wall that goes up and they have always been under her thumb or censored by her what to say or not to say with us.   She is uber controlling and heaven knows the verbal abuse they've endured by her over the years.    Again we never say anything about their other house  but on this occasion I did.  I went against my usual rule with myself  .   My DH was there and he kind of tapped me to say, "It's okay" type of signal. 

Does anyone else find this awkwardness with discussing (or never mentioning) their 'other house' with BPD mom and their other life 'over there'? 

[Klera]

Hi,

BPD mom interferes and constantly interrupts kid's phone calls to their dad (and always has, if she can); my SS13 mostly connects by text and rarely speaks on the phone directly to his dad but when he does, his mom is often in the background nearby distracting, interrupting, butting in, chatting at them etc.
She prompted SS to phone his dad on Father's Day (usually they either forget or she makes it so they are 'busy' and it's not a priority) and within a minute of them being on the phone together, she interrupted it, announcing that their grandfather (her dad) had arrived and SS quickly cut the call short pretending he was sick with a cold and not feeling well.   

SD15 will phone her dad when her mother is not at home or she is out of the house somewhere.

When the kids were about to leave to go back to their mom's (we're two weeks back and forth all summer) I mentioned that if they call their dad, can they please find some privacy, either to go outside or go to their rooms?  I didn't mention (away from) their mother specifically but I think that they understood my meaning.     

SS13 looked a bit surprised, (went quiet) that I'd actually say something to them but I felt so protective of their dad at that moment, that I added, 'dad deserves that'... .and you should have seen the look my SS13 gave his sister,  with just this eye to eye contact, while he's tying his shoelaces.    My SD was fine, she acknowledged me (she knows what I mean) but my SS was quiet.   This is the awkwardness that exists because we never mention their mother or their 'other house' when they are with us.   There is this wall that goes up and they have always been under her thumb or censored by her what to say or not to say with us.   She is uber controlling and heaven knows the verbal abuse they've endured by her over the years.    Again we never say anything about their other house  but on this occasion I did.  I went against my usual rule with myself  .   My DH was there and he kind of tapped me to say, "It's okay" type of signal. 

Does anyone else find this awkwardness with discussing (or never mentioning) their 'other house' with BPD mom and their other life 'over there'? 

[Baglady]

I also grapple with the same awkwardness with regard to my teen son and his visits to his Dad (my likely exBPDh).  I've been advised by my counselor not to discuss the possibility of my ex having BPD with my son and I'd sticking to it although it's seriously challenging at times.  I don't bring up anything in regard to my ex with my son but I'm so curious about their interactions.  I also worry a lot about how my son handles my ex's emotional instability and ever changing moods. I have serious concerns someday that my ex may introduce my son to cannabis at some point as my ex has started to self-medicate with it and thinks that it's a miracle cure for everybody.  My ex sees my son simply as an extension of himself and acts like a fellow teen around him instead of a father figure.  The boundaries are extremely blurred and very concerning to me and yet I feel like I can't go there yet with my son.  He has reviewed a safety plan with our counselor (for the sake of fairness - it identified how to handle concerning behaviors for both parents  - which felt grossly unfair to me but I understood and let it go for the sake of safety for my son) and he is a teen so he can remove himself from a situation but he's also naive and gullible and wouldn't recognize if he is being manipulated at all.  The situation is an ongoing source of low-grade stress for me and I won't be able to relax fully about it until my son goes to college in a few years.  I keep reminding myself that my home is a source of stability for my son that it hopefully balances out whatever he has to handle at my ex's home.

[Nope]

Before DH got primary custody we never asked. It really worked in our favor because being able to keep both houses completely separate helped keep the kids from dealing with loyalty binds. DH never expected the kids to stick up for him with their mom in the slightest. And they never did. They simply were happy to see us and spend time with us while with us and act like we didn't exist or that they didn't really like us when they weren't with us. DH understood that they were in an impossible situation and that if he put them on the spot or made him choose he would lose because they had to live with her.

Now that they live primarily with us and are teenagers we hear all kinds of things about what living with their uBPDm was like. Some of it has been pretty upsetting and eye opening. At this point though, the kids are old enough that they clearly get it about their mom. Sounds like it's probably the same in your case. They likely know it's an unfair situation, but it's an unfair situation for them as well as they can't win and they want to keep their mom happy. I'd let it go and not expect too much. In just a few more years they will be adults and the important thing is to maintain a stable relationship with them until that happens.

[Klera]

curious about their interactions.  I also worry a lot about how my son handles my ex's emotional instability and ever changing moods.

Me too.  That's me in a nutshell.  I know my SD15 is starting to show signs of parentification when she's with us.  I can see how hard she tries to 'look after' me, when I'm not asking her to do anything.  When I drop something, they freak out or if I say, 'oops' it's: "WHAT? WHAT?"  The kids to me, seem like they have shell shock, that their mother must freak out a lot (over reacts to situations) and they transfer that over to our house.  So I'm curious as to What the heck is going on over there all the time.  I also have seen texts she has sent to SD.  Very cold, no please or thank you's or love you, but blunt and rude so I'm sure that's how she speaks to them.

he's also naive and gullible and wouldn't recognize if he is being manipulated at all

Oh yeah, this is my SS13 too.  His mother relies on this to get away with her little antics (weaponizes him). He's been a source of her using him in this way since day one.  I can't wait for him to mature a bit more, he's almost there but unlike my SD15, he has a different relationship with his mother  (a 'mummy's boy and more loyal).

I won't be able to relax fully about it until my son goes to college in a few years

.

I'm with you!  I'm counting the days to high school graduation, when child support obligations end and they move out of her house for University.  That is celebration time.  I know she is unwell and her parenting skills are scary but she has thrown in the towel since they've become teens and it's hard to watch the laziness and neglect, and her narcissism (putting her needs first).

It really worked in our favor because being able to keep both houses completely separate helped keep the kids from dealing with loyalty binds.

I agree.  The loyalty bit for me, is the hardest.  I've felt that she interrogates them, is super invasive and disrespectful (treats them like her subjects, the 'Queen Borderline' demands loyalty at all times (entitlement).  All I ask is for is privacy. We have nothing to hide over at our house but I wish they'd be able to tell their mom, "none of your damn business" when she uses  them to find out anything about me, DH or what we do or say etc 

DH never expected the kids to stick up for him with their mom in the slightest. And they never did. They simply were happy to see us and spend time with us while with us and act like we didn't exist or that they didn't really like us when they weren't with us. DH understood that they were in an impossible situation and that if he put them on the spot or made him choose he would lose because they had to live with her.

Well done.  This has been my DH's viewpoint as well.  Thanks for this reminder, it helps a lot!

At this point though, the kids are old enough that they clearly get it about their mom. Sounds like it's probably the same in your case.

Yes, I definitely feel this is true.   My SS13 said something to his dad once, "It's mom's fault" which was pretty gobsmacking to me!  Like: wow! lightbulb moment.  My SD15 avoids her mom a lot, definitely knows about 'walking on eggshells' and is a 'pleaser'.   So they get that mom's elevator doesn't reach the top floor and I'm sure they compare the difference between households (the functioning 'normal house vs the dysfunctional chaotic stressful one)

 

it's an unfair situation for them as well as they can't win and they want to keep their mom happy. I'd let it go and not expect too much

Good advice, thank you.  That's why I come here!  Very much appreciated.  Thanks again for your replies!

[Klera]

  I keep reminding myself that my home is a source of stability for my son that it hopefully balances out whatever he has to handle at my ex's home.

Yes, I think this is the best way to look at it, definitely.  Somewhere deep down I know that the kids appreciate the stability and benefit more than we know.  A big pat on the back for you!     They know that we're here for them. 

[Baglady]

Right back at you Klera!
I also remind myself that I am now a step removed from my ex while my son is not.  He doesn't have the opportunity or maturity to develop clarity around his father's issues at this time.  We need to stay strong for our kids because ultimately  and sadly, I think they have the longer road ahead of them than we do in having a parent with this disorder.