I have to leave this man--26 years and (no more) counting

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi.
This is my first post here.
My husband has BPD--diagnosed about three years ago. Add to that PTSD and depression and an abusive anger problem. I have been putting up with/living through abuse of every kind for 26 years. We have two kids (15 & 10) who are messed up but they don't really know why. They can't figure out which one of us to blame anymore. I don't even know what to say. I have anxiety (8 years ago), high blood pressure (5 years ago), a few stressful jobs, a sick mom, and a life I have never really have time to live. I'm always late. I used to be early and had myself together. Every other week there's an abusive episode and it eats days. I get sucked in. I know that's just wrong, but I do get sucked in and my office is in my house so I can't find that space when he's having issues to work. Earlier this year I was able to just block him out and be effective but lately he's getting so much worse. I cannot see life ever being normal.

I kicked him out two years ago. Lasted 4 months and he couldn't afford rent.
I kicked him out a year ago. Lasted 6 months until he couldn't afford rent.
Both of these exits were not pretty.
Tonight I am staying with a friend after a 4 day episode while we were supposed to be on our only vacation of the year.
I travel for work a lot and I do not experience anxiety much while I'm away.

The whole family is in therapy, but different ones. I'm considering getting a marriage counselor to "help" us break up.
Today he told me that he should "keep the kids" and I should "give him" my house because I'm crazy.
I know I am not crazy. So does my longtime therapist and my support system.
But really I want to drive cross country and live far far away.
It's like he's doing the pushing out thing and I'm suddenly, "Okay. No problem."
But I can't leave my kids and move far far away.

I am not conflicted. I am trapped.
I have to leave this man. I cannot be anywhere near him or else it will be year 27.
Toss me whatever you got.
Be gentle.
Thanks for listening.

ms

[msardri]

Hi.
This is my first post here.
My husband has BPD--diagnosed about three years ago. Add to that PTSD and depression and an abusive anger problem. I have been putting up with/living through abuse of every kind for 26 years. We have two kids (15 & 10) who are messed up but they don't really know why. They can't figure out which one of us to blame anymore. I don't even know what to say. I have anxiety (8 years ago), high blood pressure (5 years ago), a few stressful jobs, a sick mom, and a life I have never really have time to live. I'm always late. I used to be early and had myself together. Every other week there's an abusive episode and it eats days. I get sucked in. I know that's just wrong, but I do get sucked in and my office is in my house so I can't find that space when he's having issues to work. Earlier this year I was able to just block him out and be effective but lately he's getting so much worse. I cannot see life ever being normal.

I kicked him out two years ago. Lasted 4 months and he couldn't afford rent.
I kicked him out a year ago. Lasted 6 months until he couldn't afford rent.
Both of these exits were not pretty.
Tonight I am staying with a friend after a 4 day episode while we were supposed to be on our only vacation of the year.
I travel for work a lot and I do not experience anxiety much while I'm away.

The whole family is in therapy, but different ones. I'm considering getting a marriage counselor to "help" us break up.
Today he told me that he should "keep the kids" and I should "give him" my house because I'm crazy.
I know I am not crazy. So does my longtime therapist and my support system.
But really I want to drive cross country and live far far away.
It's like he's doing the pushing out thing and I'm suddenly, "Okay. No problem."
But I can't leave my kids and move far far away.

I am not conflicted. I am trapped.
I have to leave this man. I cannot be anywhere near him or else it will be year 27.
Toss me whatever you got.
Be gentle.
Thanks for listening.

ms

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear msardri-
Welcome to our wonderful community.  I’m up, I’m here, I got you and I get you.

I’m sorry that you have been and are going through so much for so long.  I’m going to read your post again so I can reply properly. 

But I’m here.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh ms... .
There’s a LOT going on here... .I’m sorry, but glad you were able to get to a friend’s house for the night and take some space.  Sometimes that’s the best thing to do when our pwBPD get so out of control - we HAVE to recognize when it’s time to take care of ourselves.  You’re there.  It’s time to take care of yourself.

I am deeply sorry that your children are suffering and that your mom is ill.  This is so much to handle.  I can feel the desire to drive cross country - a sojourn with no decisions other than what type of music you’d like to hear... .and how loud.

I truly understand arriving at a certain age, NOT having anxiety issues, and then all of a sudden HAVING anxiety, and thinking who is this woman, and where did I go? 

It does seem that you’ve decided that separating is the healthiest thing to do, and obtaining assistance sounds like a good idea.  In the meantime, Maybe there are things you can do to take some control over your situation.

Perhaps a first step would be to look at logistics- to calm things down for you during the day.  Is it at all possible for you to find a “work share” set-up and get out of your home office for a period of time?  Clearly this could allow you to focus on work and not have to deal with BPDh’s dysregulation during this period. 

There are great tools to the right on communication and establishing boundaries.  And one of those boundaries would be that BPDh is to respect your work hours and only make contact in case of emergency.  You can clearly define what “emergency” means.  Depending on whether the children are home all day during the summer, this arrangement may need to wait until they are back in school.  What are your thoughts?

Does your BPDh work outside the home?  Are you the primary breadwinner in the home? 

This is just a first point, we’ll talk about more.

You state that the whole family is in therapy.  I’m glad you have a therapist, and very glad you have not allowed yourself to be cut off from all friends.  That is so vital. 

Does your BPDh accept his BPD diagnosis?  Do you know what type of therapy he is doing?

Actually, I’d rather focus more on you, even though it DOES involve your H to a large extent.  When we experience these relationships, we need to understand that we can ONLY control ourselves.  The learning tools on this site will help you with that, too.  If you haven’t already done so, please take some time and begin reading.  Learn and absorb information about “Self Care”.  I’m still working on that - NOT my forte after this experience.

Your kids are confused.  What they need to know is that you love and support them.  Show them in every way you can, which I’m sure you try to do.  The communication tools here will assist you with speaking to the children, too.  The validation techniques you’ll learn will be so good for the kids.  Sorry, it’s late and my words are not coming out as clearly as normal, so I hope I’m making sense.

Ms- so sorry... .I just proofed this and realized I am jumping all over the place.  This is NOT my best response ever. 

The bottom line is that you’ve come to a great place for support.  You CAN take control of this situation.  And whether you ultimately decide to stay in the marriage or take your children and leave the marriage, the resources and support here will create a smoother road for you to travel.

Please stay with us.  I look forward to speaking with you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[AskingWhy]

I have been in a marriage to a uBPD for over 20 years.  He was in therapy alone and was misdiagnosed as PTSD--which is common.  He was in therapy but left. 

We attempted marriage counseling several times and during one session, he gave me an ultimatum and walked out in the middle of the session.  You should have seen the look on the counselor's face.  With another marriage counselor, H totally turned the therapist against me.  As I was weeping and voicing my frustration, the therapist stood up, shook a finger at me and ordered me to stop crying and shouted, "This office is supposed to be a safe place!  You are going to lose the man who loves you!"  pwBPD can easily manipulate therapists. I thought it was safe enough to voice my unhappiness and tears--and got abused by the therapist instead!

I am now in a happy place and don't take my H's rages or dyregulations nor distorted thinking personally.  I think he "suspects" that something is wrong in his thinking.  Still, he blames me for ALL of his depression and unhappiness.  (He also has an undertreated medical condition that can manifest as depression.)

No matter how much H shouts, threatens divorce, breaks objects or punches holes in the wall, I won't get angry or rage back--as he is addicted to drama. 

[BetterLanes]

Hi ms,

Today he told me that he should "keep the kids" and I should "give him" my house because I'm crazy.

Is this what made you post here and come to a decision that you have to leave him? This is a big deal and as Gems says you need to get assistance. I suggest you let your support network and therapist know he said this, and see what they advise you to do. He is the abuser with the multiple mental health diagnoses, not you. You aren't the one that has to leave the kids and the house. You might think you aren't doing so well at parenting at the moment because of all the other things you have to deal with and the abuse you are getting (several days at a time of just dealing with that mess), but you have the capacity to do it. A court would agree with you about that.

Are you able to share what is it that you feel traps you in the relationship? Is it being worn down by the abuse or are there some other factors as well? What made you let him come back after kicking him out? A friend of mine let her ex-H sleep on her sofa for several months because he had financial issues, but as far as I know they didn't reinstate the relationship.

I am having solo relationship counselling and it is really helpful. It means I can talk freely about the problems in the relationship without being accused of anything. I haven't actually ever tried or suggested joint counselling because I didn't think it would have any good results. AskingWhy's experience supports this! I have a weekly phone call at home during the day that my H doesn't know about. Is your H always at home? If you can shut the office door, you can explain it as a work call.

Hope that helps,

BetterLanes x

[msardri]

First: Thank you to all who answered. I am at the end of my wits and I spent a good amount of time reading a few of the resources on this site last night. It's so comforting to know that I am not alone in this. These BPD behaviors that aim to hurt us deeply and keep us awake all night, and blame us for everything, and just keep moving the goalposts and removing and rearranging the floor we're standing on ARE NOT IN MY HEAD. This was so nice to find out, but also very conflicting.

Before I answer your kind questions, Gemsforeyes, I want to come clean about some stuff.

I did not realize that after 26 years, I was no longer "arguing right" or dealing with his episodes correctly. I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone reading this that during 26 years of being yelled at and accused and hurt and scared, I'd become wrapped up in his cycle and I swear I nearly looked like I had BPD sometimes. But the JADE thing is both eye-opening and scary.
1. Eye-opening because I have been JADE-ing and I feel like this is what gives him ammunition to say things like how I should give him the kids because I'm so busy with three jobs, my mom, etc. that he's able to say, "The kids and I feel in the way. You always wanted to live alone. You never wanted to marry me. You don't love us." 
2. Scary because I feel like after taking abuse for 26 years, it's me who has to change now to be able to basically handle his abuse? I mean, I know we're not allowed to talk about leaving/staying in an advice kind of way and this part is for my therapist but who would stay with an abuser for this long and think, "Well, if I change the way I react to him, then at least I'll only lose a few hours and be hurt all by myself rather than losing 4 days and being hurt alongside my... .abuser." It just feels very unfair. Why can't he just stop abusing, say sorry and MEAN it, and I can just have some peace?

I haven't dug deep enough here to know the answer to this question: is it normal for a BPDh to not allow/punish their SO for having feelings? Or, more accurately, anything the BPDh deems "negative feelings?"

It's early and I am garbled. But what I mean to say is: I feel bad that I didn't act perfectly for my whole marriage when it comes to the JADE rules. And any time I was less than perfectly non-JADE it was the reason he escalated the abuse and he never ever lets any of that go. And in turn, I don't let his harshest abuses go--because he's still abusing and can't seem to love me for who I am. My friend said something about once saying to her SO "I am mad at you right now." I just about died. If I ever said that to my BPDh, he would use that as ammo for days.

I am a changed person, but I am still myself on the inside. I am lucky to have a journaling past and I do keep in touch with who I am and what I believe in. I am not proud of my behavior during episodes. I try to be very chill and calm him down but he says such horrible things, you guys. He says such horrible, hateful, nasty, messed-up things and I'm scared every day. And that changes who I am. On one hand I don't want to blame another person for changing me--after all, it's my choice, but what kind of superhero do I think I am to do this for 23 years undiagnosed and 3 years diagnosed and not make mistakes? But on top of all this, how the heck am I supposed to live with a person and not talk to them about my feelings? And how, after 26 years of trying, am I still so naive to think that I will not be punished for saying what's on my mind when i do share my feelings?

I want to answer your questions below because I could sit here all day feeling like I can finally say stuff that can be understood. The few friends I have left do not fully understand BPD, but they get that I am in the biggest struggle of my life right now.

Depending on whether the children are home all day during the summer, this arrangement may need to wait until they are back in school.  What are your thoughts?

I have places I can go. But I really need my office. It has all my stuff in it. When everyone is in school, it is the best arrangement. (But I'm not allowed to say that because he twists it into "You don't want us around and you want to live alone."

Does your BPDh work outside the home?  Are you the primary breadwinner in the home? 

I'm the primary. He is presently looking for work and depressed about not being able to find a job. I've suggested that he open his net wider and maybe spend a year working in some places he said he wanted to go to. He doesn't seem to be able to leave my side, but I hope he tries this. But usually, he works 12 hours outside the home during the school year. Which is why when they are all in school, my life improves dramatically. AH HA MOMENT: He's home all the time in summer. This is why he is worse in summer to me.

This is just a first point, we’ll talk about more.

You state that the whole family is in therapy.  I’m glad you have a therapist, and very glad you have not allowed yourself to be cut off from all friends.  That is so vital. 

Does your BPDh accept his BPD diagnosis?  Do you know what type of therapy he is doing?

I am so lucky to have the few friends I have left. Those who couldn't handle the drama are long gone. He has tried numerous times to isolate me from my family--and for a decade I lived in a rural area in a foreign country. The abuse thrived there. I did not.
I have not been to therapy in weeks now. I will be calling for an appointment today. I was traveling and I didn't expect to have this happen when I came home. And yet, it happens every single time I come home. Every. Single. Time. He calls and says all this lovey stuff and how he can't wait to see me, and then he is ultimately so disappointed that while I was gone, I didn't stop having thoughts and feelings.

(Quick related aside about relationship counseling for AskingWhy: This same thing happened to me twice in the past. But my BPDh did it the way I describe above. Called me and said all this lovey wonderful stuff and then walked into the counselor's office and lied very deeply and meanly but also amazingly calmly (which I'd never seen and scared me so much) and I eventually started crying because the lies were heavy. When i did, she said I was the problem and scolded me roughly for not taking care of my calm, lovely husband. It was horrifying. I am very wary to do anything like that again unless the therapist has experience with BPD.)

My BPDh just finished one year of DBT skills class. He just told me last week that he thought the class would "cure" him so he didn't really work hard at it. He does not meditate, does not journal, really, and his skills are not being used from what I can see. I do think he could learn a lot if he keeps practicing those skills. He's also in therapy with his DBT psychologist every 2 weeks.
I feel none of this is my business. But if you ask me, he's so cocky and full of himself when he abuses that none of those skills are going to sink in and stick. He hates change. I can't see him ever being humble and accepting that he must change his behavior FOR REAL. It's always a promise and then a broken promise. And I have not been any good at boundaries. I can't keep moving out or leaving or even sleeping on the couch when he's abusive. If i did, I'd never be there. And that's kinda how this spring was and in that time, he has told the kids that I do not want to live there and my travel for work proves this. I feel so trapped inside this Catch-22. On one hand I have to travel to earn money, on the other hand he is saying 'life is so much better when Mom isn't around' to my kids. And they are saying, "Yeah, you know dad, you're much better when Mom isn't here." So I am falling into the traps that he's set for me. I feel so stupid.

Your kids are confused.  What they need to know is that you love and support them.  Show them in every way you can, which I’m sure you try to do.  The communication tools here will assist you with speaking to the children, too.  The validation techniques you’ll learn will be so good for the kids. 

This part hurts me so so much. This is the worst part. To have him turn this on me the other day was so horrible. He was able to say that he should have the kids and the house and that "the kids don't want to live with you anymore" and then when I try to have an adult convo about it, he suddenly has "secrets" he can't tell me... .which pop out of his mouth about how the kids have come to him and said that I scare them by being anxious. I have to say: I can see that I'm more jumpy than usual sometimes, sure. Mid-episode, I have done all I can to protect them and lie for him and pretend. They know something is going on every time. They also know that he's not well. And my eldest has asked me why don't I leave? They have come to me and their therapists about how he's scary. But now they are saying I'm scary because I'm anxious. Or so he says.
And I feel so awful that I can't model sane adult behavior for them.
I try, but then he complicates it. Is this normal? Example: He's having an episode--yelling or wanting to talk something out (endlessly) and I decide to walk away and go down to where the kids are and think about maybe trying to get them to go somewhere with me. But he follows me. Everywhere. Like--for 26 years, I have been getting yelled at through a bathroom door. Or he's waiting for me right inside the door to talk/yell/work things out/make things worse.
Modeling normal adult behavior with this going on is really, really hard.
On top of that, I have to work and he's not working so who should be taking the kids to things and getting them out of the house?
I just realized this morning that these kids have not had a normal life where we randomly go to movies or go do fun stuff. Because all that's ever happening is their dad rushing them to bed so he can talk to me until all hours.
And I've allowed it because he starts with something so out-there that I feel I have to talk with him.
Since BPD diagnosis I say I have compassion for his struggle. And I do. But he has shown to have no compassion or empathy for me (and me alone, it seems) and I just don't have time for it anymore. And my kids deserve better.

Oh hey look! I just JADE-ed all of you in this post!
Thank you very much for your replies. And for listening.
I am not sure what to do right now, but I still think, the more I read, the more I feel I've had enough of this half-life I'm living. If my BPDh can't change and doesn't want to change to be nice to me, then why should I change for him?
Plus, after 26 years of this, I really have no floor to stand on anymore. I find it impossible to trust anything he says because he always takes it back in time.

Thank you again .
ms

[Enabler]

Hey msardri,

Firstly, welcome to bpdfamily  here you shall find many many beautiful souls willing to hold your hand 24/7 365 days a year. You can get boys and girls views on things and there's boards for all areas of your troubles, from legal issues, children and of course YOU.

Golly gosh, that's a lovely amount of information to start with. There are soo soo many excellent points and tangents we could go off on here.

Firstly, are you safe? You say you are scared every day. Do you fear for your physical safety?

BPD is a rollercoaster of emotions for the person with BPD (pwBPD). We can either choose to track those emotions or we can choose not to. Once we have chosen not to it's a matter of finding a way to ensure that we differentiate our emotions from theirs. In some cases this may require physical separation. I would call myself an emotional caretaker for my wife (W). I attempted to provide her with an emotionally sanitised world which would 'make her happy'. I failed... .why, because it's an impossible task. Just like it's an impossible task not to offend of hurt your husband (H). In short, I am saying you have to say to yourself "You feel the way you feel... .for whatever reasons, and I feel what I feel."

It's great you journal, this is soo valuable. I didn't know what was up or down until I canvassed all the resources I had, letters, emails, memories, photos to plot out tons and tons of details about my life, my wife's life and our relationship. I got some really really really good foundation blocks to anchor my sanity to. This happened, that happened, she cut then, she slapped me then, I shouted at her then, she left then, we had kids then. I was a very helpful process to get my feet back on solid ground. If you haven't already done it I would highly recommend it. This is your shield to his accusations you are mad. Getting a solid footing could also bring your anxiety levels way way down.

Are you able to create any space for yourself, thinking time? Go for a walk on your own or with the kids. Not with him.

Stopping the bleed is important, getting a solid footing, understanding your reality such that you can accept it for what it is, work with it or radically change it. BUT... .you need to have a full understanding of where you are and what you need to RADICALLY ACCEPT. It's not what you ever planned for I am sure, but it is what it is.

You are not helpless, you are strong and powerful.

Enabler xx

[msardri]

It's great you journal, this is soo valuable. I didn't know what was up or down until I canvassed all the resources I had, letters, emails, memories, photos to plot out tons and tons of details about my life, my wife's life and our relationship. I got some really really really good foundation blocks to anchor my sanity to. This happened, that happened, she cut then, she slapped me then, I shouted at her then, she left then, we had kids then. I was a very helpful process to get my feet back on solid ground. If you haven't already done it I would highly recommend it. This is your shield to his accusations you are mad. Getting a solid footing could also bring your anxiety levels way way down.

Are you able to create any space for yourself, thinking time? Go for a walk on your own or with the kids. Not with him.

Stopping the bleed is important, getting a solid footing, understanding your reality such that you can accept it for what it is, work with it or radically change it. BUT... .you need to have a full understanding of where you are and what you need to RADICALLY ACCEPT. It's not what you ever planned for I am sure, but it is what it is.

You are not helpless, you are strong and powerful.

Enabler xx

Enabler,
Thank you.

For all of this.

But mostly for the solid footing ideas.
I am physically safe. The physical aspect of abuse has stopped for the most part barring the following-me-around thing. That scares me but I trust that he will not hurt me.

Here's the thing. We've been working on this. I have journaled that solid footing for decades. I KNOW the truth.
And when he moved back in the last time, I said I knew what I was signing up for--BPD, PTSD, depression. I really want to take care of him. I mean that in a non-creepy way. I want him to be loved. I want the best things for him. I want to have a life together--obviously or else I wouldn't have stayed this long.

So I have solid footing. He has solid footing. We are able to talk about it. He accepts that he has what he has. BUT THEN.
He says a whole lot of really bad stuff and takes back everything. Accuses me of being the one who's the problem--all that kind of thing. And this time dragged the kids into it as well. And when he does this, especially with the "secrets" angle, I start to think I'm the problem. Because he says that when he agreed to our solid footing and his illness, he was only doing it because A, B, or C. (fill in with whatever sounds like he can escape blame here.)
So radical acceptance, I have had.
But he has not, because he's able to go back to this blame thing. And I haven't been arguing "right" since this and so I guess I make him act like this?
Of course not! But that's what he says.

Bottom line: I have to be perfect. And the goal posts move hourly. And then I defend myself when he freaks out about me not being perfect.
Bottom line: he cannot be to blame for what's gone on for this long.
Bottom line: it has to be my fault.

I have a lot more reading to do here. I am now 5 days behind on work that has a tight deadline. I just don't have time in my life anymore for this thing. I have things to do. I have kids to love. Except I rarely have time for them because I'm always behind at work because he's always eating up my time. And yet I know that I need to walk away and work. I need to stop arguing or stop trying to make him better. But he follows me and blames.

This is why I think I have to just stop this marriage now. I can't do this for another year.

Thank you again. All of you.

ms

[Gemsforeyes]

Phew Ms!  I feel you, my friend, I do.  Okay, just breathe.  We ALL JADE and none of us knew it.  Let me make you feel better... .

I am no spring chicken, I’m 60 and was married for 19 years until my ex-H threw me across the room.  Learned after the fact that I was pretty much emotionally abused for much of my marriage.  I thought I was “HAPPY” for most of those years.  Waited a decent period and met the man of my dreams!  So after 3.5 years with alternating deeply loving man/ RAGING  lunatic, one day I looked up the phrase “unprovoked rage in men”, and it brought me to this site.  What an eye-opener. 

I learned all I could about the tools, let him come back (for the umpteenth time) and things improved, until he did something awful.  I “dropped my BPD tool belt” and let him have it.  I yelled at him for the first time and sent him packing.  I had to let him go.  I believe he’s still waiting for me to forgive him again, and I pray I won’t.  I do believe he knows he has BPD, but he will NOT disclose this to me.  He lies about most things.

Now back to you.  Two things strike me as key right here right now.  Really, three... .FIRST , yea, JADE... .I kind of refer to learning this language as sort of a “foreign language”; but once you begin to do it, it DOES become second nature.  My exBPDbf actually started to validate ME.  I almost laughed (but caught myself).  That’s how much he mirrored me. 

SECOND - the KIDS - VITAL -your BPDh is moving in on the alienation territory.  PLEASE BE CAREFUL.  Definitely take those kids for walks, ice cream, the park and anything else you can squeeze in between now and when school starts.  I’d advise NOT making a “big deal” of it.  Just say you’ve been so busy with work, etc and want to make time for them before school and activities begin.  And only have that convo with the kids if that’s how you feel.  Tho’ I guess you can include BPDh, if you know he can behave in public.  How DOES he behave in public?

THIRD - SELF CARE- DO IT!  This is me telling you to do as I say.  Because you’re a mom and those children NEED you healthy and happier.  Go for walks, do stretching, listen to music, establish an hour of required “quiet time for mom” for a bubble bath.  Part of your self-care, and improving life overall is establishing BOUNDARIES.  It’s not easy and you may find resistance, but he’s difficult anyway, so see what you can do.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Whether you stay or leave, you’ll still need BOUNDARIES.

And Now that you’re here with us, please stay with us.  I want to urge you to post as much as you need to post.  This is a safe space where venting, emotions, etc are all welcome (but bad words need to be misspelled).  If you can, try to keep posts on a particular topic.  For instance if you want to be specific about a topic on the kids, then you’ll get help from parents who are especially dealing with YOUR situation and you’ll receive focused responses.  I am so glad you found us.

We are a pretty large and VERY diverse group and we have seen it all.  You are amongst friends who DO get it.  And many of us HAVE asked ourselves if WE have BPD traits... .our pwBPD have scared us into believing WE are the ones who have caused all the problems.  So if you’re asking that question, it means you’re okay.  Feel better?  Please stick with your T if you feel she/he is helpful to you.  And encourage your BPDh to continue with his DBT work.

Once you learn more about BPD, And understand that to him “feelings =facts”, you’ll better understand the source of his reactions.  But he’s STILL responsible for everything he says and does.  And no, generally speaking pwBPD don’t naturally feel empathy.  At least from what I have seen.  That part is truly sad.  I don’t understand that.  Never will.

We ARE here, Ms... .

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Enabler]

And when he moved back in the last time, I said I knew what I was signing up for--BPD, PTSD, depression.

It's great you have a solid footing and it's awesome that he has some self awareness... .but here's the thing, those behaviors are the BPD thing... .

"you're the one with the problem" - Projection
Drag kids in - Enmeshment & Control
Blaming - Guilt and shame sensitivity


I implore you to stop being so hard on yourself when referring to "doing things the wrong way". You did what you thought was the best thing, things that worked, thinks that felt healthy to you. You (like the rest of us) were feeling around in the darkness trying to survive. You don't need to just survive anymore, you can thrive. You wont believe it now but the fact your H has a diagnosis and is capable of some self awareness is amazingly awesome. The fact you can have a conversation about 'it' is whizmical. The fact that you journal and KNOW who and what you're about and have a solid footing is fabulous. There's many ways we empower you with tools and armor to protect your precious soul. You can learn to spend less and less time on conflict and more and more time freeing up yourself to live a glorious life.

Whether you split from your H or you don't you and your children are going to have to interact with him in some way shape or form. Read some of the stories on the legal and children's board and you'll see. Upskilling yourself, preparing yourself, educating yourself to ALL the facets of BPD will help you on your journey.

Do you see a BPD specialist for your Therapy?

Have you asked them about the blaming and did they mentally prepare you for what may happen when he entered therapy? Have they walked you through how he would be feeling?

Enabler

[Cat Familiar]

  I’m so glad you’re here msardri,

I landed here in crisis and thanks to what I’ve learned and the support of this community, I’m now thriving, rather than just surviving and my relationship has become smoother and even joyful at times.

You’ve got a lot on your plate with health issues, a husband who behaves badly, two kids with issues, a sick mom, multiple jobs. You are Superwoman, whether you see that or not. We are here to help you get your batteries charged up and get organized at how you can best deal with the crisis du jour.  

So your anxiety is situational... .that’s good to know. It’s not your ambient state when you’re away from home.

You’ve done the best you can over the years but now you know that interpersonal skills that work so well with “nons” are ineffective and counterproductive with pwBPD.

And in the process of responding to your husband, you’ve found yourself emulating his behavior at times. We call that getting BPD fleas! How can you not, when you’re in contact with him on a regular basis?

I don’t know about you, but at first I was pretty damn bitter about having to change my behavior and learn a whole new style of interacting with my husband. It took a fair amount of work, but when I saw how much it paid off, it greatly increased my motivation, but it took time. I’m pretty stubborn and set in my ways, which is good now that I’m on a learning curve with the tools, and things just keep getting better.

So if you can’t find it in your heart to change for him, do it for your kids. You will be connected to him in some fashion for a lifetime anyway, just because of them.

And the best reason is that by learning new responses, you’ll get to a point where you can sidestep the crazy and remain above the fray in your peaceful inner world. I call it My Private Idaho—unlike that weird movie with the same name.

Forgive yourself for not knowing how to navigate this tough relationship. No one does. We all come here out of resources, out of strategies, exhausted, angry, hurt, devastated. The person we’ve pledged our lives to turns out to be someone entirely different.

And yes, it may not be safe emotionally to share your feelings with a pwBPD. At some point down the line... .that may change, or it might not. Meanwhile it’s great that you have good friends and a therapist!

As others have pointed out, he’s trying to alienate the kids and turn them against you. That’s right out of the BPD playbook. You’ve seen how he’s tried to separate you from family and friends in the past. Keep in mind that your kids do see his dysfunction. I saw the crazy behavior in my mother and how hard my dad worked to keep it all together. You have a separate relationship with your kids. Keep it precious.

You are under no obligation to listen to his rants. As formflier frequently says, “take your ears elsewhere.”

It’s a lot, I know! And it will take a while to learn and be able to implement the tools. But it will make things better.

This is a great video when you have a free hour to watch. Sounds like you’re really busy, but it’s definitely worth a look.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Keep posting!

Cat

[Baglady]

Dearest msardri,
I feel your pain so much (abruptly discarded after a 21 year marriage/27 year relationship with an exBPDh) because I've been exactly where you are (although like Gems - I didn't realize what I was dealing with until after my marriage broke down earlier this year).  Just some short thoughts:
1) What comes through in all of your posts is how amazingly strong you are!  What also comes through is despite this fact - you have been participating in a marathon and you are running out of stamina.  Please try to stop to take deep breaths and focus on ways to take care of yourself right now in any way you can.  Just throwing this out there - not sure if it is feasible but can you take some vacation days at all?  Can you use these vacation days to take a "work trip" so you can get some time and space away from your husband in order to gain the necessary space to formulate some plans/steps going forward?  I sense the overwhelm you are in right now (trust me I've been there) and I think first things first - you need space to stop and really breathe and think.  Again - not sure if this is feasible (I too was the sole breadwinner for my ex and teen son so I really get it) but maybe it is something you can work toward putting in place for yourself in a couple of weeks or a month or so?  Something like this to look forward too can help with the day-to-day struggle.
2) I see the start of parental alienation (although I sense that the kids see right through your husband too) - you HAVE to find ways to protect your own relationship with your kids.  From my perspective - this has to take predominance.  However your relationship with your husband plays out - you never get to leave your kids  - so play the long game here in terms of fostering your relationship with them.  if you are limited in your emotional bandwidth right now - give the first level of attention to the kids and tolerate your husband as best you can.  I know this is against the grain of marriage counseling (usually they emphasize fostering the primary relationship between husband and wife) BUT this isn't a typical relationship.
3) Remember that it's not you - it's him, it's him, it's him, it's him!  This is an incredibly, complex and baffling disorder that challenges even mental health professionals who don't have the amount of exposure and investment in the relationship that we do.  I felt the unfairness of having to change my dynamic in the relationship too BUT the changes help ME more than him to be honest.  Think of making the changes to help YOU if that helps with your very understandable resentment.  I have to practice these tools while co-parenting with my ex now and they are enormously helpful.
4) The folks on this site are amazing and they get it in a visceral way.  Keep checking in - it is the safest of places.  Learning as much as you can about this disorder and reading through everyone's stories really reinforces over time how little your husband's issues have to do with you as a person but rather how much they reflect his disordered thinking.  It does help in depersonalizing all of the hurtful comments and behaviors constantly coming your way when you realize that other people are hearing the same things word-for-word and experiencing the same behaviors (it's almost eerie at times how familiar the patterns are!)
5) Hang in there - you are stronger than you know.  You WILL find a way through.
A giant virtual hug to you 
Warmly,
B

[msardri]

It's great you have a solid footing and it's awesome that he has some self awareness... .but here's the thing, those behaviors are the BPD thing... .

"you're the one with the problem" - Projection
Drag kids in - Enmeshment & Control
Blaming - Guilt and shame sensitivity

Do you see a BPD specialist for your Therapy?

Have you asked them about the blaming and did they mentally prepare you for what may happen when he entered therapy? Have they walked you through how he would be feeling?

Hi Enabler,

Thank you for the clarification about BPD behaviors.

I wish I saw a therapist who talked more about BPD, and I used to but she ended up being my daughter's therapist and I had to step back. Which is good for my daughter, who is depressed, anxious, and at times, suicidal. (I really need to read more about children of pwBPD.)

My new therapist has pretty much been suggesting EMDR sessions bi-weekly so I can deal with my own trauma as it comes. Which, to me, feels like a good idea, but also difficult to rationalize. I mean, if I have to continue dealing with trauma like this, then why am I here? And if I'm dealing with trauma like this, as if it's something I should expect, then what kind of life do I really have ahead of me? 26 years of experience tells me: not a great life. Not trying to project or predict the future, but at times like these where decisions are important, weighing this up is something I have to do.

But what I really want to focus on is your last paragraph. Have you asked them about the blaming and did they mentally prepare you for what may happen when he entered therapy? Have they walked you through how he would be feeling?

All anyone ever said to me was: It's going to get worse before it gets better.
So far, this has certainly been the case. But the details of how it's getting worse/not better are murky.
Can you point me to a place I can learn more about this? Or can anyone share what I should expect? His DBT skills class just ended after a year. He's now essentially on his own alongside a biweekly appointment with his DBT psychologist.

He has apologized and we had some good talks this week. Our kids come back tomorrow and I am over feeling like another week of my life has disappeared into the void, though I must face the fact that a week of my life disappeared into the void. I can't let that happen again.

It feels like he has moved forward and I'm supposed to play as if everything is fine now, but this one changed me. This one really changed me. And I'm still processing a lot of stuff that he said last Friday and trying to figure out what to do with it... .even though he says now those were all lies, I have lived 26 years of him bringing those lies back whenever it suits him to hurt me.

So at this point, I have to hold back what's really on my mind.
And that's no way to live.

Thanks again, all. I'm very grateful for this community.

ms

[Enabler]

Hey,

There a lot of very useful articles on the website here, I will point to a few below. So from your husbands perspective he has recently established that the way he’s thooght for practically his entire life has and is causing a lot of pain around him... .this will be part of the radical acceptance of DBT therapy.  Pretty sure that most people don’t think of themselves as being a bad person, frightening person or angry person, in fact most people even if they were the above would be astonished that people are reacting negatively to their behaviour as from their perspective they were just defending themselves... .now... .factor into that typical human tendancy an inability or reluctance to self reflect, literally not be able to empathise with other people about how your actions feel to someone else. It’s a cold mix of thinking you’re right to do really bad things to people, and he’s just realised he’s been that guy for many many years.

So what’s his reaction likely to be? Grief... .he has to grieve the loss of everything he knew, himself and his opinion of himself, and he’s going to have to relearn how to be himself. I suppose he will have to grieve the loss of his reality. Have you ever read anything about the 7 stages of grief? There’s verious stages and people typically spend time in each box before acceptance. Your H may well have gone to DBT because that is what he was told to do or that is what he felt he should do, but does he accept it... .I don’t know.

Think of your H as having the emotions of a 4yr old child, when my D5 is furious with me (daily) she will kitchen sink everything on me. Last night she said she hated me, that I was an idiot, that she didn’t want me in her family and that I was stupid, all because I turned the TV off and told her to go to bed... .10 mins later “I love you daddy”. Your H looks and smells like an adult but he’s not, he’s a scared kid and at the moment he’s petrified. Yes, he maybe 7ft tall and be able to undo jam jars but that makes little difference to the inner child.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships

That’s a good starter. In therapy, all these things will be super charged. The therapy will stimulate emotions which will be painful and keep
His emotional state hot and close to dysregulation.

Keep posting

Enabler x