My wife refuses to respect the ruling from judge

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone,

It has been I while since I have been here. In the meantime I have found my own place. A caravan at a campingsite. It is not big, but it has two bedrooms, which is good because I can have my son over. It is also good that I now don't life by my friend anymore. He is an amazing friend, but after 9 mounths it has been enough. Now he is only my friend and no longer someone I life with. Our friendship is more healthy this way.

For getting my son over I have been going to court. On May 17th my wife decided to reduce my time with my son drasticly. To about 8 to 9 hours in two weeks. I could not accept this, because I was becoming a side figure in the life of my son. After two long months the judge ruled on July 17th that my son should be with me every other weekend from friday after school till monday morning nine  o'clock. The other week on friday from 12.00 o 'clock til 17.00 o'clock.

This gave me hope, but then my wife told me she was going on vacantion with my son from Sunay July 22th till Saterday July 28th. I accepted this because I though my son could use a week of vacation. I would see him on Sunday July 29th. I hoped this vacation would put my wife in a reasonable mood.

Of course in the meantime some stuff happend, with splitting our finances and other stuff. So she didn't came back on the 28th, but the 29th. So no time for me with my son.

According to the rulling of the judge, it would only be fair to have my son with me next weekend. But that is something my wife doesn't want. Yesterday she came with her own completely different schedule with doesn't even comes close to the rulling of the judge. And not in my favor. I didn't agree and of course then came the accusations. I kept it short, because with text messages you can't achieve anything. This morning I called my lawyer and she sent a mail to the lawyer of my wife. The email was very clear, respectfull and firm. She has to honour the rulling of the judge.

This is the current situatie and I feel really stressed. The uncertainty is killing me. I fear the reaction of my wife. I'm at the end of my rope. I know the theory for communicating with my wife, but I'm to exhausted te cope with it.

Can anyone give me some short advices or simply kind words to help me through this tough times?

I know I'm not alone, but I'm starting to almost hate my wife and I'm only at the beginning of my divorce.

Greetings,

LovingDad

[LovingDad]

Hi everyone,

It has been I while since I have been here. In the meantime I have found my own place. A caravan at a campingsite. It is not big, but it has two bedrooms, which is good because I can have my son over. It is also good that I now don't life by my friend anymore. He is an amazing friend, but after 9 mounths it has been enough. Now he is only my friend and no longer someone I life with. Our friendship is more healthy this way.

For getting my son over I have been going to court. On May 17th my wife decided to reduce my time with my son drasticly. To about 8 to 9 hours in two weeks. I could not accept this, because I was becoming a side figure in the life of my son. After two long months the judge ruled on July 17th that my son should be with me every other weekend from friday after school till monday morning nine  o'clock. The other week on friday from 12.00 o 'clock til 17.00 o'clock.

This gave me hope, but then my wife told me she was going on vacantion with my son from Sunay July 22th till Saterday July 28th. I accepted this because I though my son could use a week of vacation. I would see him on Sunday July 29th. I hoped this vacation would put my wife in a reasonable mood.

Of course in the meantime some stuff happend, with splitting our finances and other stuff. So she didn't came back on the 28th, but the 29th. So no time for me with my son.

According to the rulling of the judge, it would only be fair to have my son with me next weekend. But that is something my wife doesn't want. Yesterday she came with her own completely different schedule with doesn't even comes close to the rulling of the judge. And not in my favor. I didn't agree and of course then came the accusations. I kept it short, because with text messages you can't achieve anything. This morning I called my lawyer and she sent a mail to the lawyer of my wife. The email was very clear, respectfull and firm. She has to honour the rulling of the judge.

This is the current situatie and I feel really stressed. The uncertainty is killing me. I fear the reaction of my wife. I'm at the end of my rope. I know the theory for communicating with my wife, but I'm to exhausted te cope with it.

Can anyone give me some short advices or simply kind words to help me through this tough times?

I know I'm not alone, but I'm starting to almost hate my wife and I'm only at the beginning of my divorce.

Greetings,

LovingDad

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Loving Dad,

So sorry that this has been so tough.  It must be exhausting for sure.  But is sounds as if you have made quite a bit of progress. Congratulations on finding a place for yourself and large enough for your son to be comfortable visiting, too.

Also, great that you’ve had your visitation time extended to give you more time with your son. 

Although you were trying to be nice and accommodating about the vacation, it did deprive you of time that you should have had with your son.  It seems as if the judge’s ruling is clear despite what your wife wishes it to be.  Good for you to  proactively  contact your lawyer and get a letter sent. 

I hope you will be enjoying time with your son soon.

Mustbeabetterway

[AnuDay]

You give an inch, they'll take a Mile... .everytime. Boundaries Boundaries Boundaries must be upheld.

[ForeverDad]

This is an opportunity for you to use language to divert her from from you onto the court.  "I'm sorry if you don't like it, but the court issued an order.  We have to abide by it.  If you don't then the court will address it.  Inasmuch as you are an authority as parent, just as I am, family court is The Authority in this matter."

However, she won't ever listen to you spouting logic.  As a formerly close person to her, she can't/won't listen to you because there is too much past baggage from the ended relationship for her to get past it.

Therefore, state your case politely and briefly and then do what you have to do through the lawyer or court.  No amount of pleading or deal-making will work.  And if you agree to give up some of your parenting time to appease her, it will only give her incentive to do it again.  As AnuDay wrote, boundaries are crucial.  Weak boundaries risk getting weaker with constant challenges.

[DivDad]

AnuDay and ForeverDad are 100% correct.  And great advice.

As you did, work through your L to get things back on tract.  Courts frown upon violations of the parenting schedule.  BPD don't like authority.  They will push YOUR button, but in the end, they will abide by the court agreement. Don't agree to ANY deviation regarding the weekend schedule with the BPD in a text or email.  Don't verbally or message any swaps or changes in the schedule with the BPD.  Never.   Nicely say that you are abiding by the courts order and so should the BPD.  Try and avoid all verbal conversations with the  BPD concerning the weekend scheduling. Save all text and email messages for your L.  Keep your L informed of any violations.  And there will be more.  We have all been through this. I had to go back to court two times for contempt violation on the parenting schedule and won them both.   Being reasonable and being a nice guy when it comes to informally modifying court ordered visitations never bodes well for the nonBPD.  Hang in there and enjoy your time with your S.

[takingandsending]

Hi LovingDad.

Hang in there. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Does your court order parent plan specify vacation time as priority over the standard schedule? And does it specify how/when vacation time is notified (typically a few weeks in advance, in writing)? If not, those are things that your L should be checking, especially in divorce with a pwBPD/NPD.

I argued this type of point with my xw and her L re. priority of vacation in relation to school schedule, summer schedule, holiday, etc. In the end, because my xw could not agree, I conceded to prioritizing vacation over holiday schedule, even though I pointed out that a parent could then always schedule vacation when the other parent has holiday time with kids. My xw looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head and patiently explained that neither of us would ever do that without consulting the other parent. Legal team all looked happy to move on. Guess what? I have the kids for Thanksgiving this year and, yup, she scheduled vacation over my holiday time. Predictable. My mistake was to give in. Do not give in, even when it seems trivial, because the pwBPD is impulsive and concerned only with their feeling of the moment. Verbal agreements will be broken. You have to work with an L who gets it and ensures that the trivial is spelled out in the court order.

How do you feel about your L? Is he doing enough to protect your rights as a parent? Does he understand high conflict personalities and has he litigated such cases in court?

[david]

Back in 2007 we had a custody order that simply said summer was to be split 50/50. I let ex make the schedule since she would never agree with anything I proposed. I only communicate through email. Ex's first proposal was around 70/30. I pointed out the discrepancy in a nice manner. Her second proposal was around 80/20. Summer was coming so I filed a petition in court to resolve the situation. Ex asked for a mediation the day before court. Went round and round for a few hours. The mediator put us in separate rooms. Mediation is not binding and can be changed at any time during the mediation. I was convinced that ex would not agree to anything so in the separate room with just the mediator I agreed to the 80/20 split. I also told the mediator that I believed ex would not agree. The mediator looked at me funny and said, " but you just agreed to everything she asked." We went in the same room together and the mediator laid it out very simply. Yes, ex did not agree. The mediator pointed out that I was agreeing to everything ex originally asked for but ex would not budge. I stood up, thanked the mediator, and left. The next day in court ex had a schedule that was exactly 50/50 as the court order said. We were out in about 20 minutes.
It took a couple of things like this but eventually I realized what I thought was reasonable, and probably 99% of the population too, was not what ex would agree to because in someway it came from me.
Our youngest had problems when he started school. The problems were mostly because of everything going on at the time. Ex made me out as the one causing all the problems and convinced the school. It took a few years but eventually the school figured ex out. I convinced the school to have a meeting with me and we would come to a solution. The school would then contact ex, have  a meeting, and come to the same conclusion. I made sure they never informed ex about me so it made her feel as if she was the one in charge. They reluctantly agreed. The first time things went fine. The same for the second time. After that the principal called me and wanted to talk to me. None of it made any sense to him and he asked for me to explain. I simply said I understood my ex and how she operated and that I was not a psychiatrist so I couldn't make any diagnosis. That was in second grade. He is starting high school this year and has done well since separate parent teacher meetings began.
When he went to middle school I had problems right away. I figured ex was behind it so I went to the school. I could tell from the way the person was acting towards me I was correct. I asked the person to contact the principal from the elementary school and he would explain it. I received a call about 20 minutes later telling me everything was straightened out. I never had a problem after that. The middle school even handled parent teacher meetings the same way without me even asking.
By 2010 I was able to get a rock solid custody order that left no wiggle room. Every holiday is spelled out. Holidays with an even number of days is split 50/50. Holidays with an odd number of days gets rotated from year to year. All changes to the order have to be done through an email and can only occur when both parents agree in their email to the change. I always point out that the change is for that particular thing and not to be considered a permanent change.
Eventually ex learned that I would not engage in emails except to follow the court order. Any of her allegations I ignored. I still get some crazy emails but not as many as before. I do not respond but I do save them in case I have to go to court. I haven't spoken to her in a few years and it was only in saying hello or goodbye at a family function we were both present at.

[david]

The courts take time and it feels like too long. However, I learned to use that time to gather evidence to help the court make a decision. I started out as EOW and one dinner night a week. Every time ex took me to court I always offered a solution and many times it involved more time in my favor.
Years back ex refused to let me see their school bags and school work. I am a school teacher and she knows I value education. I had to pick the boys up at her residence back then. Ex filed a protection order against me. She filed three over the course of a few years. I asked the judge to change the custody order so that I could pick the boys up at their school instead of her residence. This way I was miles from her and it would alleviate her fears of me attacking her. The judge liked the idea and asked ex if she had any objections. She reluctantly agreed. I told my attorney I needed it in writing right then and there. My attorney hand wrote the change. After everyone looked it over ex and I both signed. The judge then signed it so it became official. The next day I went to pick the boys up and was told by the person at the front desk that I was not allowed to pick them up without the expressed consent of their mom. I learned she had contacted the school earlier that day to let them know. I had a copy of the order and gave it to them to keep.

[DivDad]

I just read the comments from David.  Excellent comments and advice.

I went through the exact scenario with my uBPDex. I could have written David's every word about the mediation sessions, dealing with school administrators, and keeping the L on task regarding any violations of the court order.
BPD's are predictable.

I know it's been said many times in this comment string, but again, when it comes to court ordered custody and scheduling stipulations, never commit to anything verbally with a BPD and go right to court when it's been violated.
The road is bumpy in the beginning, but it begins to smooth out later.

[livednlearned]

How are things going LovingDad?

Have you been able to see your son?

[LovingDad]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for all the advice. It really helps.

For me it is difficult not to be flexible and realistic. She isn't but it is in my every thought to be so.

Unless what I said above. My time with my son is starting to come. Last wednesday I had him the whole day and this weekend I had him the hole weekend. After more than a year my son saw his grandparents again and his uncle. On Saterday he had a great day. Of course my wife found out that I had done this and she threatend right away with a lawsuit. I would lose all my rigths and stuff like that. According to my wife, my parents would have abused him with their behavior. Which, of course, is not true. This morning I brought him back to my wife. My son really didn't want to go back. He wanted to stay with my, so it was difficult to bring him back. According to our schedule, agreed upon, I will have him again next Wednesday. I really hope so.

I have a good feeling with my lawyer. She is experienced, but I think not really known about BPD. In the next appointment I will have with her, I want to talk about this issue.

The official divorce papers are sent to the courthouse last Thursday, so that will probably give some troubles again. I try to be firm and try to not give an inch. When she tries to but things to her own ideas, I go to my lawyer right away. It is the only person she listen to.

It feels like the right way, but it stays difficult. It is nice to have you than and get the right advice.

Greetings,

LovingDad

[ForeverDad]

Since you already know your spouse will obstruct your parenting and parenting choices, it would be best to describe this to the judge handling the temp order, usually done at the first brief hearing of the court (standard/basic ground rules, parenting schedule, child support if any, etc).  Expect the court to presume cooperation (ha!) and zoom through the details.  Your lawyer ought to inform the court that parenting time and parenting overreach into your parenting time (such as getting upset that you and child visited your relatives, threats to halt visits, etc) has already occurred.  In short, you need to seek the best order you can get from the very start.  Society (courts, lawyers, mothers, others) pressures dads to accept limited parenting time, in effect, see the kids alternate weekends, maybe an evening or overnight in between and park your wallet with us for child support.

There is nothing to stop you from asking for equal parenting time.  Though your lawyer may caution you to not upset the apple cart, your stbEx will have no such compunctions.  However, she probably won't suffer consequences initially for her poor behaviors, courts realize tensions and emotions run high in many divorces and so are reluctant to punish parents in divorces, especially mothers who generally claim victimhood.  If you have concerns about her parenting and cooperation with parenting, then raise those concerns.  Be aware you won't get much time to go into details.  Hit the high points.  Court may still go with what it usually does with temp orders but at least you tried to get the best (least bad) start to the divorce process.

My son too didn't want to go back to his mother.  When I picked him up he would literally come running and jump in my arms.  Taking him back was the opposite, trying to delay, refusing to get in the car, fussing and crying when I brought him to her, etc.  But the exchanges had to happen.  After a few years he got used to it.  Court and lawyers didn't care one bit about his wishes.

Beware that your stbEx is likely to file allegations of DV or child abuse in order to block your parenting time and cast you as a horrible man.  (Mine did, her first ones were minor, almost ridiculous but each new allegation got worse and worse.)  Yes, your once lover/spouse probably now perceives you as Mr Evil Personified.  Expect to have any minor remark or action exaggerated into threats, stalking, harassment, abuse, whatever.  Be angelic in word and deed.  Keep your cool at all times.  Don't let her goad you into losing your temper.  She will surely use any opening you give her against you to sabotage you.

[david]

My ex filed three protection orders against me. She also charged me with assault. I did nothing wrong in any of the cases but they did get worse each time. I was found guilty of disorderly conduct and put in jail for two weeks because of the assault charge. I purchased a video camera after that. It is illegal in my state and can't be used in court but it was the only way I knew to protect myself from being arrested again from a false allegation.

Child support- I paid it years back. I went to the courthouse and talked to a woman to ask how to do it. She explained that the check was due by such and such a date. I never missed a payment. Two years later I was sent a notice to appear in family court for child support. I learned later that ex did not initiate it. I went with all my records. Called into an office and reprimanded for being a deadbeat dad for not paying. Got yelled at for about 15 minutes. When I got the chance I pulled out all my records and showed I never missed a payment and was current. I learned that I was not allowed to pay it myself and had to have my employer take it out of my paycheck. It was a law. Didn't make any sense until I learned later that the feds pay states money for them to collect child support. It only counts when the money is taken from a paycheck and not if you pay it yourself. So it is in the states best interest to make the employer take it out of your pay instead of you actually writing a check.

[DivDad]

Bit more court advice.
1)  Go into court with what you think are the most important issues that need to get resolved. Talk them over with your L.  Have a loose leaf notebook and tabs on all emails from stbx emails and texts that reinforce and counter any issues that might come up.  You can counter them by showing the judge.   Just pull out the pages as an issue comes up and show the messages to the judge.  Show your emails and her responses. The emails and texts should be photos of the messages... .not a re-typed summary.  2)  My L had me draft up a couple talking points for each issue/page in case the judged asked. It kept things focused. And that's what the judges like.  That way, I didn't get distracted by BPD non-issue accusations while in the courtroom.  Again, prepare and focus on the top 5 issues you want resolved.  You can not win an issue with verbal "he said, she said" arguments. BPD are most convincing in a courtroom (and outside the courtroom).  But you can counter showing the judge your messages an her responses.
Good luck!

[AnuDay]

The pressing question seems to be how can BPD behavior be legislated against or as ForeverDad puts it.  How can a judges order be written to prevent obstruction of your parenting time... .perhaps that is the exact wording that needs to go into the order eg. "Do not impede upon, delay, or obstruct xxx's parenting time."
From what it sounds like is that you are already behind the 8ball so to speak.  You have to slowly start trying to turn things around by following the advice of people like Foreverdad.  Be an angel in court and out of court.  Must handle everything with kid gloves so that nothing... .nothing can be used or turned against you.  You lived with her, you know how she is and the tools she might try to use.  Don't give her any ammo.  Meanwhile collect all of the evidence you can against her.  I'm curious to know the divorce and custody laws in your state.

[david]

I only communicate through email. We haven't been in court for a while now. Back then, ex oftentimes made something up in court and fortunately I had an email to disprove what she claimed.
One time she was bold face lying on the stand. I had no proof. Ex was glancing at me. I picked up a piece of paper and showed it to my attorney. I talked into his ear and said she is lying. Ex saw what I was doing and somehow changed her story to the truth.

[LovingDad]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the advices.

I think it is good for me to tell that I don't life in the US. I life in the Netherlands. In my country you have to pay the child support yourself. That I have done and she is not complaining about it.

Furthermore I'm saving every app and e-mail. Even a new e-mail her mother has sent to my mother which is a distrubing email. My mother-in-law is a Davidian believer and has religious madness, together with BPD. Even more than my wife. It doesn't feel good that my mother has to recieve such a mail with all the false accusations.

On the good news. I had my son again ysetrday from 9.00 AM till 17.00 PM. We had a great day and when I brought him back I even got some extra 45 minutes with him to let him buy his own gift from the money he saved. He bougth a big waterpistol. He had such a big smile. After that my stbEx suggested that I stay for dinner, but that I couldn't do. Not after the threads she made last Sunday, about trying to take all my rights to my son away through court. It felt bad that I couldn't stay because it disappointed my son, but I had to protect myself.

Yesterday was also a win for me because last weekend I stood up against my wife and foor the first time it didn't have a consequents. The last tool she had to do that was keeping my son away from me. She didn't do that. That makes me feel a little better. Now I have to wait another nine days before I will have my son with me again. Than I wil have him the whole weekend.

A also had some luck yesterday. I won two tickets to an Uli Jon Roth concert next Sunday. So that is something to look forward too.

Greetings,

LovingDad

[ForeverDad]

When we set boundaries we often get push-back to retreat to the Old Normal.  We call them Extinction Bursts.  However, after the initial shock the other can reduce their trigger level and you can create a New Normal.  It seems that you already have some progress there.  It doesn't mean she won't still oppose things that make her feel less in control, but it is progress.  Making a stand for yourself does work, if not so much at first, over time it does.