Introduction: Realizing he has BPD after 23 years, something has to change

[Verity]

Hi,

This is my first post here.  Within the last couple weeks I have come to the realization that my marriage of 23 years has been to a man suffering from what I am suspecting is BPD.  I’m in the beginning stages of learning what this means.  

I got to a point about 2-3 weeks ago where I just could not keep doing the same thing we’ve been doing.  Something has to change.  I found BPD information through researching emotional abuse.  First, I came to the conclusion that I have been suffering emotional abuse for our entire marriage.  

I didn’t like all the “victim vs abuser” talk though and became desperate to find out why I was feeling this way.  Through some digging I started seeing some personality disorders pop up with “abusers”.  Nothing seemed to really fit until I read some descriptions of BPD.  Suddenly, everything I had no answers for, for the first time started making sense.  

My pastor recommended the Stop Walking on Eggshells book and I’ve read it in basically 2 days.  I have to go back and really digest, but it gives me hope that no matter what my husband realizes or doesn’t there is something I can do to improve my life.  

I promised my husband when I married him that I would be with him in sickness and in health.  This is why I just cannot stand to read “abuse victim” stuff.  I don’t see him as an “abuser”.  He is my husband, who loves me desperately and is ill. That being said, I am a very hurt, broken person who needs to heal and to do life differently.  I started seeing a counselor last week and I am at a clinic that specializes in BPD so I am hoping we can find the help we need.  

My husband is unaware of any of my suspicions.  He is convinced our problems are all because of my childhood issues.  (Not denying my part, I own my own issues), but he has no clue what his issues likely are.  Anyway, thanks for “listening” so far.  I have so many questions.  

I’m looking forward to meeting more people who have experiences like I have. We are very involved in our church and to everyone else my husband is a great Christian man, husband and father.  He is all of these things, and he struggles with a personality disorder that mostly only I and our children are privy to.  I’m hoping this will be a safe place for me to learn, grow and discover truth.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Verity,



Glad that you found us! I know how hard and painful these realizations are. It is also painful to be committed to someone "to death do us part", but having such a large set of challenges that put so much strain on a marriage. We understand!

Be sure you take the time to review the lessons to the right side of the board here.  The book you read, plus the lessons here will start to get you up to speed. I would strongly encourage you to become part of the community here! Take the time to post and reply on the posts of others. If you make this part of your weekly support efforts I think you will benefit greatly.

On this board we often talk about the challenges we are facing week to week and discuss better ways to approach things. It is not always clear what to do! Better communication can make a difference though! I prefer to see it as a practice, like yoga or something. You will need to just make it part of your regular routine, it will become more natural for you in time if you keep at it.

wishing you the best, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Verity, joining pearlsw in welcoming you! In terms of safety and learning, you have absolutely come to the right place.

I think you have already taken an extremely proactive approach, especially in terms of reaching out to your church and seeing a counselor. For your next step on here, I also strongly suggest you post on other members' threads to get context on your own situation and make others more aware of you.

You said you hit your breaking point about 2-3 weeks ago. Could you possibly go into more detail about your husband's behaviors and what events led you to decide it was time for change?

Sending you strength,
RolandOfEld

[Verity]

Why did a warning about no run messages come up under my post?  I did not intend to portray that I’m wanting to leave my husband.  I’m a little afraid about posting wrong things in wrong places here.  I’m sorry if I came across wrong.  Is this the right place to post the message I did?  Please correct me if I’m wrong.  I really just wanted to give a short introduction.  I’m not sure if this is the place to go into details?  I haven’t really looked at much of the board yet.  Maybe I need to do that before I post further?  Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

[pearlsw]

Why did a warning about no run messages come up under my post?  I did not intend to portray that I’m wanting to leave my husband.  I’m a little afraid about posting wrong things in wrong places here.  I’m sorry if I came across wrong.  Is this the right place to post the message I did?  Please correct me if I’m wrong.  I really just wanted to give a short introduction.  I’m not sure if this is the place to go into details?  I haven’t really looked at much of the board yet.  Maybe I need to do that before I post further?  Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

Hi Verity,

It's nothing to worry about. It is not meant to upset you.  Those messages come up as reminders to potential people who post in reply to you not to offer stay or leave messages.

We understand that relationship choices are personal, and there are often strong reasons in either direction. It just helps as a friendly reminder to all of us to be careful in how we carry out our discussions.

It is clear from your first post that you are interested in exploring ways to make your marriage work. You are most welcome to have such discussions with us, judgement free!

What happened 2-3 weeks ago that was so upsetting?

Sincerely, pearl.

[Verity]

Okay, thank you. 

Well, nothing really out of the ordinary happened, except that we were on a family vacation (we take very few as my husband struggles with vacation) and his “normal” vacation mode came out.  He gets very sullen, can’t have fun, ignores me, gets deep “into himself” and starts thinking about all the negative things in our relationship.  We happened to be staying with friends and this created a lot of tension for me as we had nowhere to escape so our friends saw this behavior.  Our normal conflict happened on the trip (should not have been surprising to me), but for some reason after this trip I decided that was it.  I can’t do it any more.

When I got home I had a discussion with my step-MIL (who is a retired psychologist AND married to my FIL who has the same issues, but he’s in his 80’s and never got help).  Believe it or not I have never shared with her what goes on in our home.  She experiences similar things every day.  We got to talking and when she realized I struggle with the same things she does she was very sad for me.  In one of our conversations she mentioned just off the cuff “emotional abuse”.  I had no idea why she said that.  Turns out she was speaking of her own relationship with my FIL, but I did not realize that at the time.

I went home and searched on the internet signs of emotional abuse and I was shocked.  A lot of the feelings I’ve been having the past 23 years were staring at me on the page.  As I read more (from the “victims” viewpoint) I became unsettled and disturbed.  In these posts and articles I kept seeing language like “abuser... .” and “victim”... .That made me uncomfortable.  Even now, I do not see my husband as an “abuser”.  I know in his own way he loves me and if he knew what he was doing to me it would destroy him.  He loves our children.  He would never knowingly do anything to hurt us.  I do not see myself as a “victim”.  I have always hated the victim mentality and I refuse to sit in self-pity.  (For a little bit it’s okay... .I had to come to the realization of what is likely going on and that was miserable and hard)

My question to myself was, “Why do I feel this way?”  What is going on?  So, I began to see some personality issues talked about with men (people) who “abuse”.  I looked up a few that were mentioned and they really didn’t fit my husband.  Until I started reading on BPD.  I took one look at the symptoms and again, I was shocked.  It was as if someone was living in my house describing my day to day life.  The desperate need for love, but doing so many things to push me away.  The black and white thinking.  The blame and accusations made against me.  The constant negative view on life/our marriage and the inability to see any change or progress.  The “good wife/bad wife” cycle I find myself in.  The quick anger flares/temper tantrums seemingly out of nowhere.  An emotional rollercoaster that never ends.  The silent treatment I endure.   All of a sudden things that have never never never made any sense (I live in a constant state of confusion) were starting to make sense (even if I don’t understand much of it yet).

Seeing this in his dad and in my husband I’m pretty sure BPD is what is going on, but of course I can’t diagnose my husband.  Even if he never gets a diagnosis, the things I’ve read on BPD explain too much of what is going on in our lives to ignore.  There are some traits I haven’t really seen.  He (to my knowledge) has not been suicidal as long as he’s been with me, although he speaks of it as a teenager.  He doesn’t self-harm, other than when we are not doing well or he’s stressed he tends to not eat.  He is not violent (although I’ve learned how to not upset him to the point of rage).  He is more passive aggressive than outwardly aggressive.  (Which makes it so hard to put a finger on.).

I would say he is high functioning to the point that really no one outside our marriage would know.  We are the “perfect Christian couple” at church.  He is funny and kind with others.  People say he’s a great listener.  He has a great need to help others (almost a savior complex) and will go to great lengths to do so.  Many people have commented over the years how “cute” we are or that our marriage is so strong and wonderful.  I have always thought, “If that’s true, then why is it so hard?  Why do I always hurt so much?”  But, not having grown up in a healthy emotional house, I had no idea that we were not “normal”.  I thought all marriages were similar and I just wasn’t doing it right.  I read all the books on how to be a good Christian wife and I was trying to do all the right things, but for some reason these things did not work for me.  I had no idea why.

All of this is very overwhelming to me right now.  I’m just beginning to understand and try and grasp what this all means.  One thing I really appreciate about the book “Stop Walking on Eggshells” is it focuses on the non-BP and what we can do ourselves.  I’m starting to find it pointless and just aggravating when I try to figure out what my husband is doing or why. 

My emotional IQ is not very high (I grew up in a very controlling household with 2 parents who controlled me in very different ways).  So, some of the suggestions I don’t really understand how to do.  That will be part of my therapy I’m sure is to start to learn what some of these things mean.

I guess that’s it in a nutshell (or maybe not as tiny as a nutshell).  I will read some of the other posts.  Thank you to those of you who stuck through this very long post.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Verity, I appreciate the details. It makes it much easier to share ideas.

I personally vacillate between seeing my wife as a vicious abuser and someone who is sick and has no control over (and therefore limited responsibility for) her actions. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but as long as I cannot get into her head, there is no clear answer for me.

For me, I'm trying to take the focus off determining whether or not my wife is an "abuser" and instead evaluating the results of her behavior on me and our two young children and trying to work from there. I'm taking it out of the relationship realm and focusing on the practical, e.g. the safety of the kids and myself.  

Could you share about the effects of these behaviors on you, psychologically, emotionally, even physically? Do you and your husband have kids, together or from previous relationships?

~ROE

[pearlsw]

I personally vacillate between seeing my wife as a vicious abuser and someone who is sick and has no control over (and therefore limited responsibility for) her actions. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but as long as I cannot get into her head, there is no clear answer for me.

For me, I'm trying to take the focus off determining whether or not my wife is an "abuser" and instead evaluating the results of her behavior on me and our two young children and trying to work from there. I'm taking it out of the relationship realm and focusing on the practical, e.g. the safety of the kids and myself.  

~ROE

Hi Verity and ROE,

Thanks for posting this thread and bringing up this discussion Verity!

Just a quick thank you for this ROE, it really helps when you state things this way! It is something I've struggled with too and just being able to read it and hear it talked about like this is something that I can really stick in my pocket and use immediately to cope with all of this!

   

sincerely, pearl...

[Verity]

Could you share about the effects of these behaviors on you, psychologically, emotionally, even physically? Do you and your husband have kids, together or from previous relationships?

~ROE

I will try.  I’m still in the process of trying to figure these things out!  Both my husband and I have only been married to each other and we have 4 children.  Ages 17 down to 13.

I am feeling extremely broken in all areas right now.  Emotionally I have probably never been really healthy.  I grew up being told what to think and that my feelings about something didn’t matter.  This has created much havoc for me in my relationship with my husband and likely why I’m at the place I now am.  

I used to feel pretty strong though.  I had opinions and tried to express them at the beginning of our marriage.  I was active and busy.  I enjoyed many things and have always had many friends.  

Over the years these things have changed significantly.  I feel very deflated now.  All of my “strong” personality traits seem to have vanished in favor of an emotionless flat existence.  I have learned over the years to de-escalate my husband I basically have had to become non-emotional.  (I know now this is not healthy, but it was a coping skill). I’ve been accused many times of being “mean” so I really don’t stand up for myself anymore.  Lately I’ve been struggling with panic attacks and I have many symptoms of depression.  I have an appointment with a psychiatrist in a week or so and I’ve been able to get into a counselor as of last week so I am getting the help I need.  Except that my husband is opposed to medication and does not want me to go on it.  I have told him that is not up for discussion and he dropped it for the time being, but I know it will come back at me bigger and more ugly at some point.

I’ve gotten worn down over the years and I tend not to fight my husband any more.  If he wants something a certain way I usually give in because I don’t have fight left in me anymore.  This means many poor decisions are made because I don’t stand up for what I think is right.  

I’ve been homeschooling our children for the past 11 years.  Unfortunately, this has served a bit to isolate me.  I enjoy being with people and I’m finding that I’ve been pretty lonely all these years.  It’s not that my husband prevents me outright from doing things, it’s just that over time all the energy home life takes leaves me very little for enjoyable things.  Also, it’s difficult to go between the carefree life I feel outside of the home back into hell.  It has seemed easier to just stay in hell because getting a taste of “normalcy” makes me very discontent.  (Again, I see the error in this now, but it was how I coped.)

 I’m starting to learn to make boundaries in our relationship.  That is proving to be very difficult.  I set 2 main boundaries until I feel I get a handle on some things.  First boundary is I will not talk to my husband about anything related to our marriage/relationship issues.  I drew that boundary because I am tired of being blamed for everything.  I’m tired of being told how terrible I treat him.  I’m tired of every conversation lasting hours and by the end of the conversation I can’t remember what the issue was we started with and in the meantime every offense I’ve ever done in the past is being brought up whether it had anything to do with the topic or not.  It’s like a big plate of spaghetti.

The first thing he asked me about when I set this boundary was sex.  He said, “What about sex.”  I said no for now.  This angered him greatly. He has an insatiable desire for sex.  That has always been a sore spot in our marriage.  He can’t get beyond this.  Almost every conversation we have ends up going back to the topic of sex.  No matter what I’ve done over the past 23 years nothing has made it better.

I have had a lot of difficulty keeping this boundary.  He just cannot live with not talking to me about these things.  I feel like I’m dealing with a toddler that is constantly pushing up against it and seeing how far he can push it.

He threw a temper tantrum a week or so ago when I wouldn’t budge.  I even asked him before he started talking, “Will this cross my boundary?”  He said, “I don’t know” and I knew we could be in trouble.  I gave him a chance and first words out of his mouth had to do with sex.  I stopped him immediately and said, “This is not an okay topic.  I cannot listen to you right now.”   The number one thing he hates is me not listening to him.  He got very angry  (Stomping, slamming a cabinet, ignoring me) and refused to talk to me at all before I went out of town for a few days.   I’ve never held to my boundaries before.  I always end up giving in.  This is new territory and it’s a bit scary because I don’t know how things will go now.  I’ve always placated him and I know that cycle.  I have no idea what really holding my boundaries will do.  

I also can relate to the “adoring me one minute” and “hating me the next”.  I call it my “good wife” “bad wife” cycle.  There are times when I can do no wrong.  My husband will do anything for me.  If I want something I usually get more than I asked for.  He helps me and does things for me cheerfully.  He overlooks my mistakes when I apologize.  Basically I can do no wrong.  And in the blink of an eye suddenly I am the devil incarnate.  Sometimes it’s because I looked at him wrong. Or I said something wrong.  But sometimes it comes out of the blue and I have no idea what happened.  It’s usually these times that I get blasted for something I did 10-15 years ago that he suddenly remembers.  No matter what I say or what I do nothing is right.  I just have to wait out this part of the cycle until magically one day all is right again.  His face relaxes, he actually starts paying attention to me again.  Sometimes I can end the cycle “early” by asking him what is wrong and apologizing for whatever it was that I did.  Sometimes there is some truth in there, but sometimes I just end up apologizing for something to end this part of the cycle.  It’s a mixed bag though.  Sometimes it is actually easier for me to cope when I am “bad wife” because I already know I’m in trouble.  I’m not waiting for the other shoe to drop on me out of nowhere.  I don’t mind making mistakes and messing up because he’s already mad at me, who cares if he just gets more mad?  The “good wife” time is almost harder because I never know how long it’s going to last.

I’m not sure that really answers your question.  Your question is very direct and pointed and I’m afraid everything is too jumbled up in my head at this point to be able to give a succinct answer.  I feel like I’m scraping through the rubble of my mind trying to see if there is anything left that is recognizable.

[BeagleGirl]

First boundary is I will not talk to my husband about anything related to our marriage/relationship issues.  I drew that boundary because I am tired of being blamed for everything.  I’m tired of being told how terrible I treat him.  I’m tired of every conversation lasting hours and by the end of the conversation I can’t remember what the issue was we started with and in the meantime every offense I’ve ever done in the past is being brought up whether it had anything to do with the topic or not.  It’s like a big plate of spaghetti.

The first thing he asked me about when I set this boundary was sex.  He said, “What about sex.”  I said no for now.  This angered him greatly. He has an insatiable desire for sex.  That has always been a sore spot in our marriage.  He can’t get beyond this.  Almost every conversation we have ends up going back to the topic of sex.  No matter what I’ve done over the past 23 years nothing has made it better.

Verity,
Thank you for sharing more of your story.  I can definitely relate to many aspects of it. 

Setting/maintaining boundaries is key in all healthy relationships, but it seems much more important in relationships that involve BPD.  I applaud you for making this a focus and for having the restraint to deal with just one or two at a time.

I'm curious about the boundary you have set.  I have heard similar boundaries from other members on these boards, but they usually have more "caveats" to them.  I've heard things like "I will not discuss x marriage issue(s) outside of a mediated environment (therapist, pastor, counselor)" or "I will not remain in the room and listen to derogatory/abusive statements." or "I will step out of the room for a period of time when I feel I can't engage in it constructively."  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your boundary, but it sounds like it would be difficult to work through issues if they are not discussed.

I can definitely relate to the tension that can be caused by a mismatch in sexual expectations.  We had other dysfunction in that area, but when it came down to it I felt the need to set a boundary that I would not have sex unless I felt effort was being made to show affection.  It can be really hard to get out of that "I need affection to want sex/I need sex to feel affectionate" catch 22. 

I also understand the desire to isolate yourself from the reminder of what is lacking/hurtful in your home.  How are you doing on keeping connections that can support you?

BG

[Verity]

I have just a moment, but wanted to respond to your question about my boundaries.  At this point I am just starting individual counseling.  My husband is not yet in counseling.  My counselor agreed this boundary is not desirable for the long-term, but necessary at this point.  I do not have the tools I need to keep myself from being caught in the downward spiral our marriage conversations always take.  The only thing I know at this point is I cannot engage in these destructive conversations any more.  Most of our conversations go the same way.  He starts with one complaint/issue.  As he starts talking about that issue many other issues start getting raised.  Before long I am under a barrage of things I’ve done wrong throughout our entire marriage.  I am criticized for things I did 15 years ago, even if he can’t name one recent example.  I’ve just decided I’ve had enough of this.  However, I don’t have the tools I need yet to stop this from happening in a healthy way.  So, for now I need to not talk at all about anything relationship related.  I’m working with a counselor.  I know this will take time.  I want it all to be “fixed” now (as does my husband), but I am resigning myself to the fact this will be a long process.  My husband and I were talking about my boundary the other night and I ended up having a panic attack when he tried to comfort me.  I think he finally realized what this is doing to me and promised to respect my boundary.  I’m not holding my breath, as such things have been said in the past only to have him run out of patience and demand my boundaries be withdrawn.  I’ve always given in.  This time I’m not.  It’s just as much an exercise in him respecting my boundary (even though he hates it) as it is me learning to set boundaries and keep them.  At some point I will be able to ease up on this boundary, but I don’t want to do that until I have some tools I need to stay emotionally safe in our conversations.  As far as sex goes... .that is a marriage long problem that will need to wait for another day.  I’m nowhere near ready to tackle that issue.  23 years of brokenness will take some time to heal.  Thank you for your questions!  It helps me to think things through.  Right now I am feeling a great need/desire to not focus so much on his possible BPD and more on my getting healthy.  I’m a broken person too and can only control my end of things.  It helps not to focus as much attention on why/what he is doing and instead figure out my stuff.

[Buzz2]

Verity,

I related to so much of what you said that I gave up trying to quote it.  I am dealing with all of the same issues you are it seems.  I also had to put up what I consider to be pretty rigid boundaries around some things (sex included) because our relationship was so toxic that I just couldn't keep going the way things were.  I can't guarantee it will be better for you, obviously, but I can tell you that my own work in therapy and participating on these boards and reading about PD (my husband is BPD and NPD) along with these protective boundaries has helped my mental health and day to day functioning a great deal.

Hang in there and take care of yourself.  If you are like me, this in itself will take a while to figure out.  Some days are just day by day and I can't put too much thought into tomorrow.

 
Buzz

[pearlsw]

Hi Verity,

I was glad to get through your thread here and see that you are working with a counselor and that this boundary is just temporary because there does have to be some way to talk things over or you will boundary yourself right out of a relationship I am afraid!

But I hear how broken and exhausted you feel! I can say there are probably certain topics I set limits with. For example, I don't want to hear about things that are not real used as points to badger /berate me with.

Have you studied up on the tools Not JADE-ing and Validating?  Now is a good time for you to study them if not try to use them yet. I am sorry I am on a very old computer this week and don't have my fancy links handy... .I will come back and post them in a bit though!

Here ya go!

Don't JADE.

Validation

What are the issues related to sex that you are dealing with if you would like to talk about it?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[RolandOfEld]

Right now I am feeling a great need/desire to not focus so much on his possible BPD and more on my getting healthy.  I’m a broken person too and can only control my end of things.

Hi Verity, you have given us all a lot to work with here, thank you. I'll try to focus on the parts where I have the most personal experience to share.

For the conversation side, I support your boundary to not let yourself be drawn into endless conversations that do nothing but villainize you. I have been setting a similar boundary myself recently. However, I do agree with BeagleGirl's point about how issues might be hard to resolve if there is no discussion. I might suggest revising your wording to your husband to something like "You will not talk about this with him right now" and you can discuss it when everyone is in a better frame of mind. If it is just dysregulation, he will most likely drop the topic when no longer in a bad mood. If it is a real marital issue, its possible you might discuss it when he is not dysregulating. Or, you might explain you will only discuss it with a third party present, like a counselor. I've had some breakthroughs in this respect recently with my wife since the counselor enables communication that would otherwise be impossible as my wife listens to her interpretations of what I am saying.

Next is your point about being isolated. I think you've taken an awesome first step by getting a counselor and by coming here. My next question is who from your personal life (family, friends, church member) would you consider confiding to about your situation? I had a broken relationship with my family until I explained what was happening and now the relationships are stronger than even before. They have been an incredible source of support and given me the strength to go on and make change.    

Last is what you said about being broken. I used to describe myself the same way, coming from a family situation similar to yours. We are not broken, and thinking of ourselves this way makes it harder to recover. I think a better way to see it was that we learned some coping /communication patterns from our childhoods that are no longer viable. It only comes down to making some changes to these patterns to improve our well being. Nothing is broken, we were just using the equipment incorrectly because no one gave us the instruction manual. Sharing this video with you that a member here shared with me that had a tremendous impact on my ability to care for myself and cope with my wife's BPD.

~ROE

[Verity]

Hang in there and take care of yourself.  If you are like me, this in itself will take a while to figure out.  Some days are just day by day and I can't put too much thought into tomorrow.

 
Buzz

I'm sorry you are having to deal with similar things.  I wouldn't wish this on anyone.  Thanks for the support!  I do see this as a very long road ahead.  Just trying to put one foot in front of the other or at least keep from just sitting down on the road and crying!  ;-)

[Verity]

Have you studied up on the tools Not JADE-ing and Validating?  Now is a good time for you to study them if not try to use them yet. I am sorry I am on a very old computer this week and don't have my fancy links handy... .I will come back and post them in a bit though!

Here ya go!

Don't JADE.

Validation

What are the issues related to sex that you are dealing with if you would like to talk about it?

wishing you peace, pearl.

I will take a look at these, thanks!  Don't want to get into the sex at this point.  That's further down the road.  Right now I just have to get to the point where I can handle a conversation with him.

[Verity]

For the conversation side, I support your boundary to not let yourself be drawn into endless conversations that do nothing but villainize you. I have been setting a similar boundary myself recently. However, I do agree with BeagleGirl's point about how issues might be hard to resolve if there is no discussion. I might suggest revising your wording to your husband to something like "You will not talk about this with him right now" and you can discuss it when everyone is in a better frame of mind. If it is just dysregulation, he will most likely drop the topic when no longer in a bad mood. If it is a real marital issue, its possible you might discuss it when he is not dysregulating. Or, you might explain you will only discuss it with a third party present, like a counselor. I've had some breakthroughs in this respect recently with my wife since the counselor enables communication that would otherwise be impossible as my wife listens to her interpretations of what I am saying.

We are working toward couples counseling.  Right now we both have too many issues individually to be able to handle conversations and we cannot attempt marriage counseling yet because in the past it has led nowhere.  My counselor is supporting my need (and my husband's) to do individual work first, then we will come together.  I have told my husband I will discuss these things at some point, just not right now. 

Next is your point about being isolated. I think you've taken an awesome first step by getting a counselor and by coming here. My next question is who from your personal life (family, friends, church member) would you consider confiding to about your situation? I had a broken relationship with my family until I explained what was happening and now the relationships are stronger than even before. They have been an incredible source of support and given me the strength to go on and make change.  

Yes, I have opened up to some of my family and a few close friends.  This has been helpful.  They've all known marriage has been hard for us, but I've never told them how hard.  Mostly because I didn't realize until lately that we function very toxically.  

Last is what you said about being broken. I used to describe myself the same way, coming from a family situation similar to yours. We are not broken, and thinking of ourselves this way makes it harder to recover. I think a better way to see it was that we learned some coping /communication patterns from our childhoods that are no longer viable. It only comes down to making some changes to these patterns to improve our well being. Nothing is broken, we were just using the equipment incorrectly because no one gave us the instruction manual. Sharing this video with you that a member here shared with me that had a tremendous impact on my ability to care for myself and cope with my wife's BPD.

Thank you for this input... this helps to reframe.

~ROE

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

[lonely38]

Your story sounds nearly identical to mine except that I have been married to my BPD husband for 38 years.  We are just discovering this whole thought process and now my husband's diagnosis of BPD.

My husband had started researching BPD a couple of years ago because of our daughter's behavior.  Our 38 year marriage has been full of turbulence, most of it blamed on me and pointing out that I am conflict oriented.  I have had a lifetime of his BPD behavior, including decades of immorality, child like behavior, blaming, black and white thinking, his emotions going back and forth.

This year has been turbulent as my BPD husband is now 61.  He is about to retire, has an aging mom with lots of health issues (we also think she has been BPD or at least mentally ill all her life).  We moved this year and my husband has not been happy about our new location.  Because of these and other things, he has been a mess and extremely difficult to deal with.  Finally, I had enough.  After doing some reading of my own and research, I sat down with him and told him things needed to change and that I thought he had BPD.

It was like a light bulb went off with him.  He agreed that he did have BPD and has started therapy as well as a lot of reading on BPD.  Suddenly nearly all of his behavior over the years including immorality, blaming me for the marriage stuff, liking me then hating me, silent treatment and more, are making sense.

My BPD husband is like yours, a very high functioning person to the outside world.  I would say the only people who have witnessed his behavior over the years have been myself and our children.  While our friends and family know a lot of what has gone on in our marriage, they still comment that he seems like he has it all together.

My husband is going through a lot of anxiety, looking back at his life and not liking what he sees.  He is not sleeping, is close to having panic attacks, has had a rash all over his body, that seems to be some type of anxiety rash.

I am in therapy trying to get healthy as I have been such a part of his disease and trying to cope myself.  My anxiety level has grown so much, that I have realized my need to get healthy.  I am giving myself permission to remove myself from his stuff, although that is way easier said than done. 

With regard to emotional abuse, I understand what you are saying.  My husband has been a bully to me, demeaning me, even in front of our children.  I have decided that is no longer ok.  I am reading the book, "The gaslight effect" and it is helping me know how to respond to him.  He knows I am in therapy, he knows I am reading this book and others, he also knows I have talked with a friend or two.  While he is not happy about these things, he is also seeking to understand that I need support.

I feel like I am starting to get my self respect back.  I have forgotten who I was over the years and subconsciously denied myself pleasure.  I used to be a very creative person but have left that behind.  I am seeking to find myself again.  I know this is all going to take time.  I have health stuff right now with lack of sleep, eating too much, drinking too much, anxiety, etc.  But I feel I am on the path to getting healthier.

I want to be able to stay in our marriage as we are approaching older age. My husband and I love our children and now grandchildren.  My husband has told me a couple of times here recently that if I left he would understand it.  I have truly thought I should have done that years ago.  But my personality and faith have not allowed me to do that.

What I am seeking now is to find my own peace and happiness, no matter where my husband is with his.  My hope is that my husband gets the help he needs.  But I am not in charge of him getting help anymore.  I am trying to be a support to him as he needs someone to talk to but not getting sucked into his stuff. 

We have had such a back and forth marriage.  This whole looking at the big picture has allowed me to see our marriage for what it is.  I am realizing that the vast majority of conflict in our marriage has been due to his BPD behavior.  I gladly joined into the conflict when he threw 'hand grenades' into our communication etc.  Now I am seeking to not join in when he starts a conflict.

That has included me not responding at all to his stuff.  A week or so ago as he was demeaning me and trying to bully me into a decision, I responded that I was going to go for a drive if this did not stop.  I intend to continue to remove myself so that I am not caught up in the additional trauma of more conflict.

I am pretty new at all of this but wanted to pass along what I am learning.  You are deserving of a peaceful home environment, even if that means you create that environment for yourself.  You are deserving of a husband who treats you with respect. 

Wishing you blessings and answers for your own therapy and peace of mind.  Good for you starting to take care of yourself.  Remember, it is like being on an airplane and they say to give yourself oxygen first before helping anyone else.  That really does not make sense unless you step back and realize that if you are helpless, others around you will also be helpfless.

[Verity]

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Lonely in CO.  We do seem to be in a very similar place.  On the one hand it feels good to know I am not alone.  On the other hand it's so sad that so many people hurt in the same ways. 

My husband will start therapy this coming week.  I'm hoping that in the assessments something is diagnosed.  I don't care what the name is... .(although I have a very good idea it's BPD), we just need help.  He has absolutely no clue that he may have this issue.  Everything is still mostly my fault.  He will admit he has childhood issues too, but the idea of a personality issue has not even entered his mind as far as I know.

Thanks again for sharing your story.  Hugs to you!

[RolandOfEld]

My husband will start therapy this coming week.  I'm hoping that in the assessments something is diagnosed.  I don't care what the name is... .(although I have a very good idea it's BPD), we just need help.  He has absolutely no clue that he may have this issue.  Everything is still mostly my fault.  He will admit he has childhood issues too, but the idea of a personality issue has not even entered his mind as far as I know.

Hi Verity, this is a good first step.And I encourage you to see it as that, not an end-all solution, but a beginning. When I finally got my wife in front of therapist I thought we had reached the end of the tunnel, but it ended when she said she didn't think it was worth the cost. A few months later I got us in front of a psychiatrist, who gave her a more label-ridden description of her problem. No total acceptance, but she started to see that there was something wrong here. Recently we saw a social worker and back to our therapist (at her suggestion), and her illness was finally discussed by all in the open, with her admitting it to us and herself that she was sick. We are by no means in the clear, but I believe we might be on the road to somewhere.

Do you have any access to your husband's therapist, e.g. to ask questions or provide input? If they concur that your husband is ill, they can become a vital ally to both of you. But they might need to hear your side of things to do this.

~ROE

[lonely38]

Have you considered sharing with your husband your concerns that he may have BPD or a personality disorder of some kind?

I know not everyone thinks that is a good idea.  I shared with my husband that I thought he had BPD.  He had already been doing a lot of research on it because he felt our daughter was struggling with it.  He had already said he saw himself in reading about it so maybe that made it more permissible for me to share my concerns with him.

Getting help seems to be a long process.  My husband is trying a different therapist today.  While I am glad he seems to be seeking help, I also realize that at this point in his life, there is a good chance that not much will change with him.  I tend to get my hopes up too much for his behavior changes.  I realize I have put too much effort over the years in trying to figure him out and trying to get help for him.  It has worn me down, caused great anxiety and really removed joy from my life.

I am working to change my focus to getting healthier myself.  It does not remove the pain of my husband's illness, his back and forth behavior or the lack of a healthy marriage relationship.  But it does help me to see things for what they are. 

I woke up this morning reminding myself that this is a new day and that I promise myself to work on being a healthier person this day. But I also give myself permission to not be exactly where I would like to be if it is not in me as far as energy, getting things done, etc.

Hoping your day will be a good one for you.

[Verity]

Do you have any access to your husband's therapist, e.g. to ask questions or provide input? If they concur that your husband is ill, they can become a vital ally to both of you. But they might need to hear your side of things to do this.

~ROE

I found a local clinic that specializes in BPD and does DBT treatment.  That was very important to me.  I think my husband has to sign consent in order for me to be able to talk to his therapist, but that could be easily done.  Also, this clinic works as a team so we must sign something that says they can talk to each other.  I'm not sure what happens with husband/wife.  I know my therapist said she wanted to run an issue by others on her team and I said that was fine, but no one was seeing my husband at the time.  I'd have to ask how that works.  My therapist is aware of the issues and my hunches about BPD so I'm sure she mentioned that to the counselor who is going to see him.  I was assured he would be able to assess that in the first 3 weeks of assessment.

[Verity]

Have you considered sharing with your husband your concerns that he may have BPD or a personality disorder of some kind?

I know not everyone thinks that is a good idea.  I shared with my husband that I thought he had BPD.  He had already been doing a lot of research on it because he felt our daughter was struggling with it.  He had already said he saw himself in reading about it so maybe that made it more permissible for me to share my concerns with him.

Getting help seems to be a long process.  My husband is trying a different therapist today.  While I am glad he seems to be seeking help, I also realize that at this point in his life, there is a good chance that not much will change with him.  I tend to get my hopes up too much for his behavior changes.  I realize I have put too much effort over the years in trying to figure him out and trying to get help for him.  It has worn me down, caused great anxiety and really removed joy from my life.

I am working to change my focus to getting healthier myself.  It does not remove the pain of my husband's illness, his back and forth behavior or the lack of a healthy marriage relationship.  But it does help me to see things for what they are. 

I woke up this morning reminding myself that this is a new day and that I promise myself to work on being a healthier person this day. But I also give myself permission to not be exactly where I would like to be if it is not in me as far as energy, getting things done, etc.

Hoping your day will be a good one for you.

I feel so much the same way!  Whether my husband is diagnosed or not really is moot at this point.  I have to get healthy for myself.  I'm unwilling to leave this relationship so I have to figure out how to function in this environment.  I decided to focus less on his issues and more on my own.  I grew up in a very emotionally unhealthy home so I'm working with my therapist to come to terms with that and learn to handle things better.  I'm learning to separate my husband from me, although that is extremely difficult. 

I have contemplated mentioning BPD to him, but I really think he needs to hear it from someone else.  He tends to not put much credit into what I say.  Only if he hears it from someone else will he tend to then agree that I was right about something.  This is SO important to us getting healthy that I'd rather he hears it from a therapist.  I can then agree, but me pointing things out to him rarely goes well.  This has been extremely difficult to not let him in on as throughout our marriage I have never held much back from him.  However, I'm learning for my own emotional safety I may need to reassess that boundary!  Such as, admitting things I've done, apologizing for them and expecting him to forget them and move on has not been a tactic that has worked for me.  Pretty much I've just been setting myself up, giving him ammunition for future disagreements.  Pretty much this is how he thinks, "Have you ever done it in the past?"  (yes)  "Do you think you could ever do it again?"  (I can't promise I won't)  "Then I cannot trust you and refuse to believe you have changed."  (me, defeated, alright then... .)

I'm really praying that it is clear to the therapist what is going on.  From there it is up to Greg whether or not he will choose to accept it or not.  I see that as being difficult, except for the fact his dad has the same thing (undiagnosed, but he's even worse then my husband) and maybe by seeing his dad has this he will admit that maybe he does too.  We also have a son that likely is BPD, but that's going to have to wait for another day... .one thing at a time.

[lonely38]

Wow, we think my husband's mom has had mental illness.  We definitely think my husband's sister has mental illness as well as a couple of nieces.  And now we think our daughter has mental illness.

I always go back to what is the worst thing that can happen?  I have tiptoed around for most of our marriage, except when I would flip out over some horrible act or behavior that my husband committed.  That was me being codependent, trying to make him behave in some form or fashion that I thought he should behave in. But when he 'got ahold' of himself, I would become hopeful and energized.  I am realizing that is no way to do life.  That is a way to be topsy turvy ALL the time.  If I am dependent on my husband's well being and his emotions to then feel ok myself, it totally makes sense that I would be on edge ALOT.  And also lots of anxiety, lack of sleep, not able to think straight, etc. 

I am in that mode now although I can feel myself moving in the right direction.  I am in a profession where I need to be on target and exact with information.  I am mortified at myself right now as I can feel myself slipping with my thought process and details.  I am realizing that either I have high anxiety and stress and that explains why I am not on my A game or I must have some kind of early dementia.  Either one are scary to think about for sure.

I believe I have lived in this mode for such a long time in our marriage, that it has literally poisoned me as far as my ability to be available like I would like to, to be engaged with others like I would like to, to have energy and zest for life.  These are things I am missing about myself and I no longer an am ok with that.  I am not sure why this has come out to me so clearly at this point in life.  But I do know I have thought about this so much and prayed (as you do) about it, that it feels like an answer to soo much pain.  It allows me to remove myself from it as I am starting to see it for what it is.

My husband has a disease that he did not plan on, that he does not want to have, that he is wanting to make right.  Yes, his changes at figuring this out at this point in his life are slim but I am grateful for information that allows him the chance to get healthier.  So, if you think about it, and you thought your husband had cancer, would you share that with him?  If you thought there was a chance for him to get help, does that seem worth the risk?

Are you ok if things get worse before they get better?  That is where we are as a couple.  My husband is lamenting his life, is struggling with all kinds of anxiety, has major ups and downs with his emotions, is upset with me for practically nothing, then loves me like he never loved me before. 

It is weird, but I am feeling more in touch with myself and my thoughts and feelings.  It allows me to not react so much to be BPD husband but to give him the room he must need to figure things out for himself.

That is not necessarily fixing things as I am struggling with loneliness, sadness, frustration and definitely anxiety and stress.  But it does give me permission to remove myself from being in the fixing mode.  Or in the 'make him get things right mode'.

His stuff is his stuff and my stuff is my stuff...


Hugs!

[RolandOfEld]

I have contemplated mentioning BPD to him, but I really think he needs to hear it from someone else.  He tends to not put much credit into what I say.  Only if he hears it from someone else will he tend to then agree that I was right about something.  This is SO important to us getting healthy that I'd rather he hears it from a therapist.

Hi Verity, in my experience there are different ways of telling and hearing than directly stating you think he has a mental illness or BPD. These are labels only.

My wife had always suspected something was wrong with her (she was the one who introduced me to BPD), but I think it was my actions / reactions that finally drove the truth home. She now openly acknowledges she has mental illness and is making efforts at getting better.

My actions included setting boundaries (like you are), reporting her behavior to the police when it violated the law (hitting, stealing from me), and letting her know that divorce might be in the future. After these things happened, she started to take some action. I don't think its a coincidence.

I would suggest instead of focusing on words and labels, you focus on behaviors and consequences. Leave the diagnosis for the doctors, which will also be helpful in letting him see what's happening. Lay out for him clearly what behaviors you cannot tolerate and what the result of them continuing might be. You are not making an ultimatum (ultimatums don't work), only showing the natural consequences of his actions. If he values you and your marriage on a deeper level than his illness goes, he will probably try to make change. If he doesn't, then its up to you to decide whether you can accept life with someone like him.  

What behaviors would you first want to single out to him as unacceptable, and whats the consequence of him not changing them?

~ROE