Help Needed Making Sense of What Happened

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

A part of me cannot believe I am posting here, but the other part of me believes that there must be some truth in why I have found this site for support. 

I met my ex-girlfriend when I was 33, she was 26.  I was working for a very successful cancer immunotherapy biotech company having just graduated with my masters degree in experimental psychology.  I have always been an independent, hard-working male raised in a loving family.  At the time we met, I was in a really good place in my life with a purpose in my job and having taking 4 years alone after a ten year relationship from 20-30 years old.  She was working as a bartender, and although she had her college degree, she was not the most motivated person.  Things in the beginning were great.  It was exciting, fun, and she was/is extremely attractive.  However, we drank a lot of alcohol and used recreational drugs a lot.  She took adderall for ADHD, worked very late hours and we seemed to be in different places in our lives.  She was up late, had serious problems sleeping due to either the adderall or what seemed to be something in her mind that wouldn't settle down.  I remember when we first met through a mutual acquaintance that there was something "off" about her.  She was exciting, fun, pretty, and intelligent, but she was never able to stay home at night, drank a lot and seemed extremely clingy to start.  It's hard to put my finger on.  After 6 months of dating we began to have terrible fights after drinking and I started to show an interest in a colleague at work, which she found out about after going through my laptop and seeing messages of me asking friends if it was something I should pursue.  Although I never cheated or saw this other girl, this would be the beginning of her losing faith in the relationship.  She ended up moving into my apartment after we split and got back together, both of us dating other people in between.  The fights continued as we both still drank a lot and had no trust in one another.  After we were living together, I caught her on several occasions texting other guys and even found her to be on a date with another guy when she said she was at the gym.  I looked the other way on this and seemed to have overlooked flags, which I am learning came from my codependence to her. 

My Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer about 3 years into this relationship so I moved back home to take care of him and she got her own place.  I used alcohol a lot in a very unhealthy way during his illness and was destructive.  I did things I have never done before in a relationship with fits of rage towards her when she would be emotionally unavailable or drunk herself. 

After he died, during one of our "breaks" she came to the funeral, and then left and went to Mexico with her best guy friend, who had previously expressed his infatuation and love for her.  I was heartbroken in that at that time in my life she could do something like that.  Even though we were not technically dating, we were definitely seeing each other.  Shortly after this, we started seeing each other again and I noticed she had on her calendar that she was going to a football game with her ex boyfriend who was flying into town to go, which she told me she canceled since we started seeing each other again.  The day of the game came and I caught them at her apartment, which she then posted on social media, knowing I would see it that she was with him.  These types of deceit occurred over and over again whether it be through text or in-person meetings with other men. 

I stopped drinking completely, got into therapy and began living a much healthier life without her when she reached out to me in what would appear to be now known as a "charm".  She had not cleaned up, was still drinking and would block me from messaging her when I asked what she was doing or who she was with.  She seemed to always turn the tables and say I was "crazy" for asking too many questions and then sending a ton of messages saying that she was a bad person for always lying and cheating and leaving when my Dad died.  As I write this, some reasons that over the last 12 months that have lead me to these websites are as follows:

1. Fits of rage - If I said I wasn't coming over she would scream and text me to leave her alone
2. Lying - She lied about everything, no matter how big or small. She told me she played the flute when we first met, which was a total lie. She would say she was somewhere doing something and it would be a total lie.
3. She could never sleep without alcohol or weed
4. Her mom is in recovery for alcohol and her sister is an alcoholic. Her mom has been married 2x and engaged 4x, finally settling down at 71 after loads of cosmetic surgery and her Mom is literally her best friend.
5. She would always ask me if she was "memorable" and if I loved her
6. charming - She would always come back, through text or email after she disappeared for days or months after being caught with someone else
7. Saying hurtful things - She would make comments about me being weak, never doing what I said I would, making fun of people's appearance
8. Self confidence - Although very pretty and smart, she seemed like she hated herself and finally one night said she did and that she knows people don't like her
9. No girlfriends - She has no real girlfriends, but either this one guy who is obsessed with her she always goes to when we split.
10. Alcohol - She always said she should stop drinking like I did, but never did and would say terrible things when she was drinking.

I guess what I have learned is that my codependence is real in that for me to tolerate poor behavior is the more important issue here. But, I am still thinking back wondering where I went wrong, or if she is just too unwell, or who might stay for this, or was it just me that couldn't handle her because I also became dependent on her. It's just so confusing.

[thedanvilletrain]

Hello,

A part of me cannot believe I am posting here, but the other part of me believes that there must be some truth in why I have found this site for support. 

I met my ex-girlfriend when I was 33, she was 26.  I was working for a very successful cancer immunotherapy biotech company having just graduated with my masters degree in experimental psychology.  I have always been an independent, hard-working male raised in a loving family.  At the time we met, I was in a really good place in my life with a purpose in my job and having taking 4 years alone after a ten year relationship from 20-30 years old.  She was working as a bartender, and although she had her college degree, she was not the most motivated person.  Things in the beginning were great.  It was exciting, fun, and she was/is extremely attractive.  However, we drank a lot of alcohol and used recreational drugs a lot.  She took adderall for ADHD, worked very late hours and we seemed to be in different places in our lives.  She was up late, had serious problems sleeping due to either the adderall or what seemed to be something in her mind that wouldn't settle down.  I remember when we first met through a mutual acquaintance that there was something "off" about her.  She was exciting, fun, pretty, and intelligent, but she was never able to stay home at night, drank a lot and seemed extremely clingy to start.  It's hard to put my finger on.  After 6 months of dating we began to have terrible fights after drinking and I started to show an interest in a colleague at work, which she found out about after going through my laptop and seeing messages of me asking friends if it was something I should pursue.  Although I never cheated or saw this other girl, this would be the beginning of her losing faith in the relationship.  She ended up moving into my apartment after we split and got back together, both of us dating other people in between.  The fights continued as we both still drank a lot and had no trust in one another.  After we were living together, I caught her on several occasions texting other guys and even found her to be on a date with another guy when she said she was at the gym.  I looked the other way on this and seemed to have overlooked flags, which I am learning came from my codependence to her. 

My Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer about 3 years into this relationship so I moved back home to take care of him and she got her own place.  I used alcohol a lot in a very unhealthy way during his illness and was destructive.  I did things I have never done before in a relationship with fits of rage towards her when she would be emotionally unavailable or drunk herself. 

After he died, during one of our "breaks" she came to the funeral, and then left and went to Mexico with her best guy friend, who had previously expressed his infatuation and love for her.  I was heartbroken in that at that time in my life she could do something like that.  Even though we were not technically dating, we were definitely seeing each other.  Shortly after this, we started seeing each other again and I noticed she had on her calendar that she was going to a football game with her ex boyfriend who was flying into town to go, which she told me she canceled since we started seeing each other again.  The day of the game came and I caught them at her apartment, which she then posted on social media, knowing I would see it that she was with him.  These types of deceit occurred over and over again whether it be through text or in-person meetings with other men. 

I stopped drinking completely, got into therapy and began living a much healthier life without her when she reached out to me in what would appear to be now known as a "charm".  She had not cleaned up, was still drinking and would block me from messaging her when I asked what she was doing or who she was with.  She seemed to always turn the tables and say I was "crazy" for asking too many questions and then sending a ton of messages saying that she was a bad person for always lying and cheating and leaving when my Dad died.  As I write this, some reasons that over the last 12 months that have lead me to these websites are as follows:

1. Fits of rage - If I said I wasn't coming over she would scream and text me to leave her alone
2. Lying - She lied about everything, no matter how big or small. She told me she played the flute when we first met, which was a total lie. She would say she was somewhere doing something and it would be a total lie.
3. She could never sleep without alcohol or weed
4. Her mom is in recovery for alcohol and her sister is an alcoholic. Her mom has been married 2x and engaged 4x, finally settling down at 71 after loads of cosmetic surgery and her Mom is literally her best friend.
5. She would always ask me if she was "memorable" and if I loved her
6. charming - She would always come back, through text or email after she disappeared for days or months after being caught with someone else
7. Saying hurtful things - She would make comments about me being weak, never doing what I said I would, making fun of people's appearance
8. Self confidence - Although very pretty and smart, she seemed like she hated herself and finally one night said she did and that she knows people don't like her
9. No girlfriends - She has no real girlfriends, but either this one guy who is obsessed with her she always goes to when we split.
10. Alcohol - She always said she should stop drinking like I did, but never did and would say terrible things when she was drinking.

I guess what I have learned is that my codependence is real in that for me to tolerate poor behavior is the more important issue here. But, I am still thinking back wondering where I went wrong, or if she is just too unwell, or who might stay for this, or was it just me that couldn't handle her because I also became dependent on her. It's just so confusing.

[once removed]

hi thedanvilletriain, and

as sorry as i am to hear about the circumstances that have brought you here, i am glad you found us. you sound exhausted, and i hear how volatile this relationship has been and the toll it has taken.

how long ago did things "officially" end? when was the last time you spoke?

[thedanvilletrain]

Hi, and thank you. 

I am exhausted.  The last time we spoke, or the last time I texted her was 38 days ago, in September.  She essentially disappeared after I asked her where she was one night in September and then essentially lost my cool and told her all of the reasons I was suspicious.  I have not reached out at all since then.

[once removed]

so it sounds like things ended left on a bad note. ouch.

how are you feeling about it all, and holding up?

in terms of making sense of what happened, do you have any questions about your experience, the disorder, where to go next with it all?

[thedanvilletrain]

Hi,
Yes, it ended, as it always has for years, on a bad note where I finally break and say things about her and her character and the way she treated me for so long in anger and she doesn't respond, at all.  I regret losing my cool, but also felt like I had tolerated lies, deceit, and hurt for so long that she deserved to hear my thoughts.  At the same time, I am trying not to reach out to apologize and see what she feels, although as always she is out living her life quite fine from what I see on social media.  I have so many questions, like does she really have "BPD" or was I just a bit neurotic and brought out the worst?  Does it matter if she has a clinical diagnosis or is someone who I consider toxic just as challenging as having a formal diagnosis.  Will she change?  Who will she end up with, or rather will she do the same thing to the next guy? Will she "charm" me, again?

I am still free from drugs and alcohol for 15 months now, have great friends and family and travel the world helping patients with cancer therapies, so I am happy with my life and what adversity has taught me, but this just eats away at me so bad that I get physically ill when I see her on social media and struggle to not reach out to her and to try and make sense of this.

[once removed]

i had a lot of the same questions... .i think good questions can inform and aid our recovery.

Does it matter if she has a clinical diagnosis or is someone who I consider toxic just as challenging as having a formal diagnosis.

for perspective on this, most of our ex partners would not reach the threshold for diagnosis (very complicated process), but have traits of the disorder, even significant ones, and just a splash of BPD can make for a great deal of turmoil.

if you look above, and click "Diagnosis + Treatment", theres a lot of very good information id encourage you to read through. theres also good stuff in our Psychology Questions and Answers board.

whether our ex partners had traits of the disorder, would reach a threshold of diagnosis, those traits and common behaviors can answer a lot of questions regarding "what happened", if we use the label responsibly. for instance, you mention lying. lots of people lie, but there are different motivations for lying. when it comes to BPD for example, shame is a core underlying factor of the disorder... .shame, extreme eagerness to please and be accepted, impulsivity, these can strongly motivate a person to lie.

Will she change?  Who will she end up with, or rather will she do the same thing to the next guy?

this is a common question, one that i had, and the answer is a complex one.

all of us change, and are different people, to various degrees, from relationship to relationship. all of us learn some lessons, some good ones, some bad ones. all of us carry some bad habits and baggage, coping mechanisms, some mature and immature, ways of communicating, some helpful and not helpful, into our next relationships. ideally, we all do a little better each time, though not always. if relationships are an interaction between two people, it stands to reason that if you change the equation the relationship will be "different". how, to what extent, no one can say. people with BPD traits are no different in this regard, they just share some common, and often heavy baggage.

i find that often times at the heart of the question (and certainly as it applied to me) is a fear that we werent significant or special, or that we were entirely to blame for the relationship woes and struggles. all of this is far more complex, and it will take some time and healing to sort it out; youll get there, and asking questions will help.

another is often a fear that our partners will succeed, and that that means we will fail, or have failed. if we think about it, one doesnt really have anything to do with the other.

Will she "charm" me, again?

charming is really about post breakup contact that can be confusing and emotional; the internet is full of urban legends and misinformation about this.

sometimes, when both partners arent done with the relationship, they recycle (get back together), and there are a host of reasons why this happens, on our end, and our ex partners. one or two recycles, or make up/break ups are very common, around 60% of all relationships do. multiple breakup/make up cycles damage the relationship more each time. trust diminishes.

more information on charming and relationship recycling here: goo.gl/WNmHWh

its difficult to say whether she will contact you again or not. its pretty common when a relationship ends on a bad note and one or both parties have unresolved feelings. she has done it in the past.

if you want to reconcile the relationship, or think theres even a 5% chance of it happening, id encourage you to post on the Bettering board and learn the skills and tools, make a plan. i can move your post there if youd like.

I am still free from drugs and alcohol for 15 months now, have great friends and family and travel the world helping patients with cancer therapies, so I am happy with my life and what adversity has taught me, but this just eats away at me so bad that I get physically ill when I see her on social media and struggle to not reach out to her and to try and make sense of this.

i know some of my answers here have been a little academic, and i know theres real pain and confusion here. we understand, have been there, and others are currently there. getting healthy and emotionally centered is a huge achievement, and will go a long way in your recovery. likewise, youve found a community that can be a big part of your support group, and help you in the answers and closure that you seek, and if you stick around, you can learn some lessons and skills here that will be with you for the rest of your life.

[Harley Quinn]

I'd like to join Once Removed in welcoming you to the site 

You've done an amazing job of turning your life around after finding yourself on a slippery slope, which takes tremendous strength.  I want to congratulate you on that.  Clearly you have the drive to take care of yourself, which is a huge asset.  Do you still see your therapist?  I'm wondering if you're working through your current feelings and thoughts around codependency.  We have lots of good information and many of us can relate to the rescuer tendencies.  It sounds like you also have a great support network of friends and family and that's good to hear.   

When you say you're tempted to reach out and try to make sense of this, do you think that is because you hope to reconcile the relationship?  Or are you seeking closure? 

I'd encourage you to join other threads, as there is a wealth of experience here and it is really helpful to pick up on what others are doing to approach their own situations.  You'll also find the articles to the right of your screen extremely helpful in filling in some of the gaps. 

I'm glad that you decided to post.

Love and light x

[Chitchat]

Hi thedanvilletrair

It's just so confusing

That is the thing. You don't know which questions you want answers to. So you don't want to let go.

And reaching out is even more difficult, as each unanswered question can fire a different emotion in you at any time.

I think once removed has given you outstanding advice.