I got up and left the child support resolution meeting L looked surprised

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I had a child support resolution meeting yesterday that didn't go well. I served my ex last month for this meeting to change the child support because finances have changed for her in the last 5 years she makes nearly as much as me and I pay too much child support.

Just a bit of a back story my D12 came out this year that she was transgender and since late July has been staying with her mom I was barraged by the ex she was telling how I don't understand D12 and how she does and how accepting that she is. My ex is condescending and this came up again in the meeting it was distractions the focus was child support. She's trying to get full custody of the kids she knows that traditionally she can't get it so she's trying to have the kids against me starting with D12.

I made a mistake when I went to court in August the judge put an addition to our current court order saying that the father is not going to seek access it didn't change my custody of her though.I thought that I would give her space and eventually she would come back to me which was as I said a mistake now I feel like she's slipping away from me and she's saying things about me that I don't believe comes from her it comes from exuBPDex yesterday in a text she said that I don't how to parent.

Back to the meeting it was a mediation meeting with an L and the L said that he wasn't biased but started taking my exuBPD's side at one point he told me that I was just hearing what I wanted to hear the child support would work with 2 two kids as shared and one kid as sole custody for the ex, I told him that my D was having psychological issues and that she'll come back. The meeting turned out to be about me and how ex is the better parent and I'm the bad parent.

I knew that the L wasn't listening to me and that it was going know where, I think that he was trying to scare me because he said that if I'm asking for support changes for two kids at shared and one at full that I'm giving away my custody that doesn't make sense to give custody away for 100 bucks less a month and I can't believe that it would be that easy. This was turning out more of a meeting about the parenting order than child support. I asked him why this was so complicated because I went to court 20 times 19 of those times it was about money and the last appearance was about the parenting plan and that it seemed reversed in this meeting. The judge only took a couple of minutes to figure out how much I was going to pay he checked a table and said she makes this much you make this much you pay this. This should only take a couple of minutes. We’re in here an hour and we’re still talking about custody and access. She claimed 17000 for her income the year that we split  I ended up paying substantial child support almost as much as if she had full child support.

I felt like he was trying to get the best deal for uBPDex yesterday I got up from my chair out my jacket on and said I'm done thanks for your time, he said that we could take 2 or 3 weeks and schedule another meeting I said no thanks I'm not interested. I'm just ranting here MEP is absolutely abussive on men they make them so difficult to deal with, you don't want to deal with them after the initial child support is set up all of the papers that I had to gather where a pain the behind to get the child support changed is a pain in the behind they make it so unattractive that I think that they do it on purpose so that you don't come back to the system.

The positive side is that now I know that I have to file for access with D12, I set up counselling appointments for the two of us and she doesn't want to give that a chance, I have some appointments with a T to help me with parental alienation and Im waiting for a call from an L on what to do at this point, I'm going to file a motion to change access with D12 ( I want her to come back home ) and to change child support but the L will tell me what the best course of action is from here. I'm jsut frustrated with how my exUBPDw is using the kids for money, she broke up with her bf a source of income now she knows that she's making substantially more than she did and is trying to get more money from me.

I got up and left the meeting because it wasn't going my way, the L ended up taking sides with exuBPDw, she was causing distractions so that the core issues weren't going to get resolved,  there's no way that I'm giving up custody of D12 and I'll take my chances in court.

[Mutt]

I had a child support resolution meeting yesterday that didn't go well. I served my ex last month for this meeting to change the child support because finances have changed for her in the last 5 years she makes nearly as much as me and I pay too much child support.

Just a bit of a back story my D12 came out this year that she was transgender and since late July has been staying with her mom I was barraged by the ex she was telling how I don't understand D12 and how she does and how accepting that she is. My ex is condescending and this came up again in the meeting it was distractions the focus was child support. She's trying to get full custody of the kids she knows that traditionally she can't get it so she's trying to have the kids against me starting with D12.

I made a mistake when I went to court in August the judge put an addition to our current court order saying that the father is not going to seek access it didn't change my custody of her though.I thought that I would give her space and eventually she would come back to me which was as I said a mistake now I feel like she's slipping away from me and she's saying things about me that I don't believe comes from her it comes from exuBPDex yesterday in a text she said that I don't how to parent.

Back to the meeting it was a mediation meeting with an L and the L said that he wasn't biased but started taking my exuBPD's side at one point he told me that I was just hearing what I wanted to hear the child support would work with 2 two kids as shared and one kid as sole custody for the ex, I told him that my D was having psychological issues and that she'll come back. The meeting turned out to be about me and how ex is the better parent and I'm the bad parent.

I knew that the L wasn't listening to me and that it was going know where, I think that he was trying to scare me because he said that if I'm asking for support changes for two kids at shared and one at full that I'm giving away my custody that doesn't make sense to give custody away for 100 bucks less a month and I can't believe that it would be that easy. This was turning out more of a meeting about the parenting order than child support. I asked him why this was so complicated because I went to court 20 times 19 of those times it was about money and the last appearance was about the parenting plan and that it seemed reversed in this meeting. The judge only took a couple of minutes to figure out how much I was going to pay he checked a table and said she makes this much you make this much you pay this. This should only take a couple of minutes. We’re in here an hour and we’re still talking about custody and access. She claimed 17000 for her income the year that we split  I ended up paying substantial child support almost as much as if she had full child support.

I felt like he was trying to get the best deal for uBPDex yesterday I got up from my chair out my jacket on and said I'm done thanks for your time, he said that we could take 2 or 3 weeks and schedule another meeting I said no thanks I'm not interested. I'm just ranting here MEP is absolutely abussive on men they make them so difficult to deal with, you don't want to deal with them after the initial child support is set up all of the papers that I had to gather where a pain the behind to get the child support changed is a pain in the behind they make it so unattractive that I think that they do it on purpose so that you don't come back to the system.

The positive side is that now I know that I have to file for access with D12, I set up counselling appointments for the two of us and she doesn't want to give that a chance, I have some appointments with a T to help me with parental alienation and Im waiting for a call from an L on what to do at this point, I'm going to file a motion to change access with D12 ( I want her to come back home ) and to change child support but the L will tell me what the best course of action is from here. I'm jsut frustrated with how my exUBPDw is using the kids for money, she broke up with her bf a source of income now she knows that she's making substantially more than she did and is trying to get more money from me.

I got up and left the meeting because it wasn't going my way, the L ended up taking sides with exuBPDw, she was causing distractions so that the core issues weren't going to get resolved,  there's no way that I'm giving up custody of D12 and I'll take my chances in court.

[zachira]

Unfortunately high conflict cases are often not candidates for mediation and have to go to Court which costs lots of time and money. Just be sure you have plenty of good advice on how to make sure you have the best chance of getting what you need when you go to Court.

[Turkish]

So her bf is no longer in the picture?

I agree "you don't know how to parent" doesn't sound like something a 12 yo would say. 

[Mutt]

Unfortunately high conflict cases are often not candidates for mediation and have to go to Court which costs lots of time and money. Just be sure you have plenty of good advice on how to make sure you have the best chance of getting what you need when you go to Court.

I was hoping that she wasn’t going to show up but I also thought that she would when it comes to money she still had a dependency on me and she’s trying to squeeze more out of since she’s alone. I’m not her bf or her H it’s not my problem.

I also that it’s going to be straight forward you make this much she makes this ok you pay this. I should of known they make it difficult, undesirable, they make it so that you don’t want to deal with them. I should of know better that it wasn’t going to be easy.

That being said back to the drawing board and you’re right it’s going to have to go back to court but I have to enforce something with D12 to get her back to my house.

So her bf is no longer in the picture?

I agree "you don't know how to parent" doesn't sound like something a 12 yo would say.  

Im pretty sure that he’s out of the picture the kids don’t talk about him anymore and their little sister goes with dad the week that I have the kids.

My mom mentioned parental alienation a few months ago she used a French word that I didn’t know meant parental alienation I thought that she meant she was just parroting what my ex said.

Im sorry i sound bleak most of this is just venting I’m frustrated because slowly I felt my D12 push away she wouldn’t answer my messages, she started saying negative things about me.

My ex knew that she reported too much and she didn’t want to lose the money this started last year around d the end of the year she knew what her yearly pay would be. She also knows that she can’t full custody so she’s working on the kids, I notice it in S10 that’s her plan.

Think of it this way. I said in the meeting yesterday if it where me and there was an issue over at the parent I’d say to D12 look you can stay here for a couple of weeks or a month but beyond that you have to go back to your mom’s. Now you have it set up that you want to have full custody in January or so she’s trying to distort because she never followed the instructions that were not’ the email sent by the courts but it shows her intention. She’s not trying to tell D12 to go back to my place although she was being distracting saying that she supportive of it and that I wasn’t interested.

Now I have to change the court order and get what the last judge put on it removed and somehow see if I can enforce time. He asked yesterday ( the L / mediator ) why do you think she doesn’t want to come home, I should of responded with I believe that there is a coalition between D12 and my exuBPDw. The good thing is I know now rather than later I gave D12 space this isn’t space anymore this is poison.

I talked to my gf about it and she it’s one step at a time one day at a time but you have to make an effort call her everyday even if she doesn’t pick up message her in the morning and in the evening and you have to do it everyday to build a r/s with her.

I thought that we had a good r/s we went to Montreal together I did it specifically because I knew was going to a teenager soon and I wanted to spend quality time with her, we shopping together, we went to the park together, we talked on the plane it was a good time. Then out of nowhere she says dad I’m a boy and i didn’t handle her coming out well and that was the divisive moment but I’m pretty sure that the exuBPDw was manipulating before that because she spoke to her about coming out and my ex said nothing to me about her feeling she’s a boy. I think that she set her up for failure and the. Worked on her feelings.

Now I know that it’s parental alienation and it’s to be taken seriously and that it’s going to be hard but to quote something I read tonight tell your child that you don’t know where they heard that talk to them and then do an activity and show them love and attention. It shows that to have a mind of their own and that there are two sides not just one. Parental alienation is like a dark forest and you have to support your child with love and guide them out of the dark forest of distortions. Now I know the extent or how far she’ll go and how insidious she can be.  

As far as the meeting Im just not putting up with certain things in life anymore he wasn’t listening or he was trying to assert dominance he kept saying how long he’s been working in family courts Im not wasting my time if you’re not showing respect. I’ll leave the situation whereas before I’d just take the abuse.  He was a bad L.

[Turkish]

I agree about keep contacting your child even if you hey no response and it sucks that mom may have access to her phone.  It's a horrible storm: exW breaking up with a dysfunctional baby daddy, your kid's out of the blue revelation,  and to top it off,  a lawyer who seems to not have advocated in your best interests.

[Mutt]

Thanks Turk D12 responded to my texts this morning I'll call after work and text her this evening. I was thinking that exuBPDw is going to be self centered and not pay attention to the kids when she finds someone new she is going to be too busy idealising the new guy maybe I can use that to my advantage with D12. You remember how the kids were forgotten when our exes found someone new?

[worriedStepmom]

Are you making an effort to come to terms with your 12-year-old's revelations?  Counseling for you?  Reading up on transgender issues?  Finding or attending support groups in the area?

Your situation is so much more complex than just dealing with a BPDex.  Your child very well might be suffering some parental alienation - but there is most likely also mixed in with that some very normal fear or anxiety of your disappointment or disapproval.  Transgender kids face a lot of discrimination, and if the parents aren't incredibly supportive, it can be very very very rough for the child.  If mom is being wholeheartedly supportive and you have not been... .then it's going to be a little more difficult to convince S12 to come visit you.

It's okay to be shocked and even somewhat disapproving of this news... .but to salvage a relationship with your child, you are going to need to make an effort to understand and accept, both in your heart and outwardly.  Your child is going to need to see you making those efforts and see that your love is unconditional in order to feel emotionally safe coming to visit you.

[Mutt]

I approved the hormone blockers that should show approval I was in the room with the endocrinologist and her. I've talked to my own counsellor and I use the pronouns that my D12 wants me to use, the hormone blockers stop puberty and if it is gender dysphoria they'll be able to tell.  I was shocked think of it this way how one person reacts may be completely different than how someone else reacts, she dropped a bomb and she gets really upset if someone doesn't accept it right away. She's going to have to realize that you can't control how everyone is going to react and stop react to it. I use she until it's determined that there is a need to use cross hormones (testosterone) I want to have a healthy r/s so I show respect by using her male name etc... .I only refer to him as she to people that are close to me and this forum, I should be allowed to share that without judgement with close relationships.

I think that there is some magical thinking with thinking that everyone is going to accept her right away it's going to take time for some and for others they process it more quickly I don't agree with my exuBPDw being condescending to me by saying that she is accepted it right away I think that she's using transgender and her acceptance to validate how good of a mom she is and how bad dad is because dad was shocked, it's not black and white, it's a grey area one incident doesn't reflect the entire r/s.  I have taken her to her appointments with her P I have some more appointments with her coming up I do admit that I haven't gone to the pride center. I want to go with her and will on the next oppurtunity. I'm not a judgemental person I leave it to god to judge people. I'm sorry if not using the correct pronouns offend some but I'm talking to members in confidentiality like you would with a TI think that you should be able to express yourself without being judged. I'm not saying that I am being judged I'm explaining why I refer to D12 as D12.

I agree with you that all of your points are good points worriedStepmom it’s like the counsellor andP said that a transgender child need support from their parent and need unconditional love and to show your child that you love them unconditionally.

[worriedStepmom]

Thanks for the explanation - it certainly sounds like you are doing what you can to be supportive.  My apologies if I came across as judgmental.  There is a transgender child in my son's grade, and I've heard horror stories from her mom about what some kids in our area have gone through when they've come out to their parents or the community.  You definitely fall on the "trying to do my absolute best for my kid" end of the spectrum, and I hope that one day your child will look back and recognize that.

You're right that it is unreasonable to expect that there would be all unicorns and rainbows when anyone is surprised with news of this magnitude.  Unfortunately your kid is 12 and likely  hasn't figured that out yet.  And mom has lots of anxieties to tweak to alienate.

Has your child been able to articulate the reasons behind the refusal to come see you beyond "dad's initial reaction wasn't what I wanted to see"?  Are there any specific actions or behaviors that they want to see from you?  Any chance of a few family therapy sessions with just the two of you?

It's a sucky combination of challenges and I wish you lots of luck.

[Mutt]

Thanks worriedStepmom I don't feel like I was judged, the reason why I gave consent for the hormone blockers is because of what you mentioned harassment, discrimination the P said that there is a 50% suicide rate with transgender people she explained that the reason why they treat so young is because if a person looks more of the part of how they feel sexually than lessens the bullying that my D12 would face later on I thought that if I can do something now so that she suffers less later then I will approve it.

I think that I've been supportive I do think that I thought that things would repair themselves and I could have done more to try to repair the r/s I just thought that space was enough, I got angry when she told me which I shouldn't have she told me because she trusted me I didn't get over the top angry the whole exchange was less than 5 minutes I could tell by her reaction that I hurt her and that she felt rejected. She said that the experience was too traumatic that's the reason why she won't come she did reject counselling at first with myself and her and I said that you're not even going to give it a chance I have an appointment coming up with the both of us. I don't have high hopes I feel like everything I've carefully done so far has been rejected. For now I think that I have to give it a lot of effort and keep communicating with her everyday.

[livednlearned]

The guy behind Ryan Thomas (https://ryanthomas.mykajabi.com/) talks about what it was life for him as an alienated youth (pretty severe alienation). He's now reunited with his previously alienated dad, and he talks about things that worked during the alienation campaign (as he calls it).

Including continuing to reach out even when you're being rejected, which you're doing 

Some of the material is behind a paywall, but there are snippets of resources available for free that might help you think creatively about what you can do if D12 decides to hold you at arm's distance.

[Mutt]

Thank you livednlearned I really appreciate it I'll check it out. I got a call back from a L he said that it's too complicated over the phone I asked him about how the L said that I would lose custody if I'm paying my ex for full custody of D12 he said that doesn't make sense he would need to look at the paper work it's too hard too over the phone. It's an EFAP service I'm waiting for a second call from another lawyer to make a visit in their office and they can check the paperwork.

I explained the addition that the judge had added that I wasn't going to seek access and he said that there must of been a reason why I said because there is supposed to be court in January in special chambers my ex didn't respond correctly to the email that was sent to both of us how I read it is that she had two weeks to serve me and I had a month to respond, it said that you can't reply to the email and ask for advice, she didn't serve for me. He said that they should have just transferred it from court to court. I'll go to the courthouse myself and check.

I also called the P and made all of the appointments for next month (3 there is a week that the P is not available the P wanted to see her everyweek because of SI) to take D12 to the P aside from the appointment with her and I with a T.

[Mutt]

I took D12 to the P it's been a little while since I have spent time with her. I could tell that she was excited she didn't stop talking the entire time that we were together I clicked a picture of her while we were at the university where her P is and she looks happy.

I talked to her about junior high and asked her how things were going some students are saying homophobic slurs to her, she is changing in the boys room for gym she told me that one of the older kids in grade 9 smacked her in the head with the locker door and she had a bruise from it she seemed OK she wasn't sad about it she seemed almost happy but I don't completely buy it that she is ok. I think that she may be saying that she is ok so that I don't worry about her.

I talked to another lawyer and he said that I can go to court and say in the court order that I'm not giving up my parenting rights and change the child support or I can wait until D12 comes back home then file. I'm planning on going to the court and file another affidavit to change the child support and say that I'm not giving up my parenting rights. I asked about the special chambers because how I read the email sent to both my ex and I she didn't follow the instructions correctly he said call the court clerks and asked about special chambers in January he also said "You're on the right track Mutt"

I invited D12 to come home this week and she declined it again I think that she may still be angry at me when she came out and told me that she was transgender or there is something keeping her at mom's maybe mom has her feeling guilty for coming to my place or because it's really lenient over there for her or it's combination of the two. Next I'm going with her to the pride center and I think that I'm going to ask her then if there is something that she would changed if she comes back what would it be and I also have two more P appointments with her this month she is still turning down going to the T with just her and I together so I'm going by myself.

I think that I have to think long term I have had successes with her these last couple of weeks, I talked to her no less than twice a day and invite her every week that is my week she responds back to my texts most of the time I have a feeling that I won't be able to win her over anytime soon to come back home.

[worriedStepmom]

That's great that she was excited and very talkative with you.  It's great that you're showing her with your actions that you are there for her, that you love her, and that you want her with you.

[Turkish]

It doesn't sound like she is safe in the locker room, especially with older teen boys.  Was this assault reported to the school? I can imagine dealing with this is hard on so many levels... .keeping her safe, but there is also a risk of invalidating her.  But she needs to be safe. 

[Mutt]

That's great that she was excited and very talkative with you.  It's great that you're showing her with your actions that you are there for her, that you love her, and that you want her with you.

You have a good point with showing with actions I have to remind myself of that. My gf had a good point she asked how her studies were because she’s too focused on identity my gf is big on education she said using your money for education will give you the best return instead wasting in clothes - D12 sent me a text said that her LA suggested that she goes into advanced classes because she’s at a grade or two ahead of the grade she’s in now. I told her that she’s smart she has the intellect to get a PhD later in if she wanted too I asked about how she felt about the advanced classes she said she is interested. There’s that Im glad that there are other distractions for her.

[Mutt]

It doesn't sound like she is safe in the locker room, especially with older teen boys.  Was this assault reported to the school? I can imagine dealing with this is hard on so many levels... .keeping her safe, but there is also a risk of invalidating her.  But she needs to be safe. 

Good point. I know the social worker at school I’ll send an email and ask her what course of action would be appropriate and if it was reported she probably doesn’t know but she can maybe refer me to the school staff. I’m with you I hate having my hands when it comes to protecting the kids.