24 yr old daughter doing better but I still worry, been through tragic events

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hi,

This is my first post. I have been reading the various boards, just to get a feel for the site. My family has gone through such difficult times over the past few years. Actually, tragic events I should say. ":)ifficult" doesn't even begin to describe it.

If our family had been the subject of a TV show, we would have gone from quirky and interesting to an embarrassing reality show to a horrific Dateline episode.

I have attended Al-Anon on occasion, but I have been amazed at reading the specifics about BPD here and how so many have experienced the same very distinct and frightening characteristics of someone that has this disorder. Like, I think what I have experienced is above my therapist's level of training. I am not getting very much that's helpful, except for a listening ear.

Thanks for offering this space and for the articles and stories. I feel a little less alone and a little more sane.

[Good2behere]

Hi,

This is my first post. I have been reading the various boards, just to get a feel for the site. My family has gone through such difficult times over the past few years. Actually, tragic events I should say. ":)ifficult" doesn't even begin to describe it.

If our family had been the subject of a TV show, we would have gone from quirky and interesting to an embarrassing reality show to a horrific Dateline episode.

I have attended Al-Anon on occasion, but I have been amazed at reading the specifics about BPD here and how so many have experienced the same very distinct and frightening characteristics of someone that has this disorder. Like, I think what I have experienced is above my therapist's level of training. I am not getting very much that's helpful, except for a listening ear.

Thanks for offering this space and for the articles and stories. I feel a little less alone and a little more sane.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Merlot]

Hi Good2behere

Welcome to the bpdfamily  

I'm glad that you are finding some solace and value in the reading available on the board and in others' experiences.  That's why we are all hear, to learn and share as we navigate our lives along very difficult behavioral challenges in our children.

My family has gone through such difficult times over the past few years. Actually, tragic events I should say. ":)ifficult" doesn't even begin to describe it.

Are you able to share a little more here, it really does sound like you have been through a great deal and sharing your circumstances will allow others to provide their wisdom and support to you.

I have attended Al-Anon on occasion, but I have been amazed at reading the specifics about BPD here and how so many have experienced the same very distinct and frightening characteristics of someone that has this disorder.

Was the attendance for you daughter?  Has that been useful.

I'm glad you are here, you are not alone and we look forward to hearing more about you and your experience as others will learn from you too.

Take very good care of yourself  and despite some of your tragedy, I hope you have some good people around you.

Merlot

[Radcliff]

Welcome to bpdfamily!  This is an amazing place.  I would encourage you to stay and make this community a part of your support system.  Let us know more about the troubles you've faced.  You may be surprised to find others who have faced similar difficulties.

It is not at all surprising that you feel what you have experienced is beyond your therapist's level of training.  I've felt the same way, and I believe it to be true.  There's a large range of trouble that one can bring to a therapist, and you need someone who can handle what you're bringing.  Are you thinking about looking around for someone new?

WW

[Good2behere]

Thank you both for the welcome.

Was the attendance for you daughter?  Has that been useful.

Yes. I went there because we finally managed to get her back from her abusive Antisocial Disordered (Criminal) boyfriend/fiancee in another state across the country. Fortunately, they never legally married. He got them hooked on heroin and then his family convinced her to go to a methadone clinic, which basically chains you to that town, since it's a government run program. And the government doesn't really have a "taper off of methadone" program, and most detox treatment facilities refuse to take anyone who is on that because it is "the government's area, not ours".

So, my husband and I had to help her get off of both of those-- cold turkey-- at home. It's amazing the things you have to learn how to do when you have a BPD person and an addict that you're trying to help. As in, even the professionals don't want to do it, and have no real advice. It worked, and it has been two years since then, but she wasn't able to stay away from alcohol and bad relationships.

We finally had to tell her to leave our home after she took my car out during the night to buy a fifth of vodka, drove 85 mph down a 40 mph road, with a police car following her, but she still didn't even notice or stop. She wrecked in the front of our condo complex's underground garage, so a lot of people saw her antics with the police who had her sent by ambulance to the hospital. They towed my car to next town and all of this was reported in the local paper. I was mortified to say the least. She remembers nothing of any of this.

I printed out a list of sober living homes for women in our state, and she found an opening in one about 3 hours away. The women there helped her get a job in a factory. She is now working her usual job in a floral department again, and is living with someone who seems stable, but who knows.

She got a DUI and served 2 days of jail time, and has a lot of other requirements of parole she is meeting. She lost her license for a year, and any car that she drives in the future must have an ignition lock installed on it. She goes to 4 substance abuse counseling sessions per week. She also had to meet with a panel of people who had lost someone by being hit by a drink driver.

And that is just one small time segment of her life. There have been other traumas that I still have to process.

During that time, my husband's younger brother, who had OCD, bipolar and probably BPD by the end, met with a violent death which will involve an ongoing trial in the next few years. Every detail about it was on televised news and a few online national papers. When my husband came home looking stricken and dazed (after being called by his parents), I thought he was going to tell me that something had happened to our daughter, but when he said it was his brother, I felt relief and horror all at the same time. She had made two nearly successful suicide attempts, with calls from police during the night to let us know she had been been airlifted to an ICU, so I was sure that this was finally it.

My late brother-in-law's teenage daughter has PANDAS/OCD so severely that she can't attend school. She has just recently been dxed as BPD by a child psychiatrist, which is practically unheard of, but she is prone to violence, threats, destruction of property, etc. Losing her dad in this way-- I just can't imagine what it will take to heal her.

I can't even tell you how bizarre this has all been. My husband is one of the nicest, most stable persons I know. He's a senior engineer at a large IT company. I was a quiet English major and freelance writer before becoming a stay at home mom. His parents were missionaries living among the poorest of the earth's poor for decades. I mean, this is NOT a Jerry Springer family by any stretch. But somehow, some gene (some have been tested) in the family has gotten worse as the generations go on.

My other daughter just graduated from college, has a job in her field lined up and is vegan. Her genes did not show certain mutations that can predispose one for mental/emotional disorders.

Life isn't fair! All of the disordered people in the family have all of the ingredients for a successful life, as much as the ones who are non-disordered. When they aren't in the grips of a disorder or an addiction, they are very intelligent, attractive and talented. I think that is what keeps the rest of us who care about them going through such agony. It's like you are trying to preserve all of their good traits, because they actually could be a force for good in the world and can be really sweet and funny. But instead, you somehow just end up listening to them about their problems, reading about their issues, strategizing, sacrificing, suffering, covering for their disasters, because you don't want the darkness to win.

Al-Anon has been helpful from time to time, because it's where I first discovered that I was raised to be a caretaker for other people's feelings and problems, and so I'm working the 12 steps for myself. I don't really share about the BPD stuff there, because alcoholism is complex and confusing enough all by itself. I don't have the energy to explain it, and the others all look traumatized enough.

I have been trying to get my daughter into DBT with someone for years, but somehow, she is always stuck in the assessment phase and leaves or sabotages herself before the real work can even begin. Or the addiction counseling takes priority over the psychiatric.

I have had, altogether, 4 BPD individuals in my life, and so ... .yeah. Here I am. These people were all dxed by different specialists, and not by me, just to be clear.

Well, that was quite wordy, but I hope it helps someone to feel less alone, or who had a question. Also, I feel the need to find a therapist who has experience with this. Thanks again!

[DoneMom]

Hi Good,

I am brand new here too but reading your story - it’s all very familiar & I can certainly understand how exhausted and worried you must be. 

Our daughters sound similar in many ways.  Mine is 23 and is in a very bad destructive cycle right now (see my post and 2 car accidents in 4 days).  I spent my morning in a lawyer’s office... .

Anyhow, I too am trying to get my daughter to do DBT therapy (for real this time too).  I made it a specific mandate today as a condition for paying the lawyer’s fee.  I will probably get swindled yet again.

I wish I had some wisdom for you but it looks like we both found a good place to learn, share and support one another.  I can empathize and I really wish you the best.

[Merlot]

Hi Good2behere

Thankyou for that update. Wow! It truly is overwhelming but you have such an eloquent way of atticulating what has been happening for your family.

Im glad your daughter is off heroin. That oin n itself is a major achievement. Your commitment in seeing her through this and her issues with alcohol show such strength and love.

It struck me how difficult it can be to be so publicly exposed through our childrens adverse behaviour and this is no doubt very confronting as we become subject to inuendo and judgement.  I can relate here.

I also take your point about taking the time to process what youve been through. I think you are on the right track in looking for a therapist to assist.

I hope as parents we can support and provide friendship.

I do hope you have things that allow you to self nurture as this has no doubt been consuming.

Take care
Merlot

[Radcliff]

Good2behere, you were so eloquent in describing your situation and how the illness can run in a family that is otherwise doing well.  I'm glad you are getting support through Al-anon.

You and DoneMom both mentioned DBT.  As you probably know, it's an impressive program, designed for situations just like your daughters'.  Keep trying.  Sometimes, though, the more we want something, the less they want to do it, sadly.  I think you would find it valuable to look at this page on how to get a borderline into therapy.  There's a video at the end by a clinical researcher who figured out how best to approach the challenge of getting someone to get past unawareness of a mental illness and into therapy.  The video is long -- an hour and forty minutes -- and the example he uses is about schizophrenia, but I was patient and watched the whole thing, and am glad I did.  He drops a nugget 37 minutes in, and finally gets down to business at about 1:19.  It's worth watching, but you probably also want to read his book, IAm Not Sick, I Don’t Need Help:  How to Help Someone With Mental Illness Accept Treatment.  In the video, he says that one of two things needs to happen to make it likely for someone to stay in treatment:  1. Awareness that they have a mental illness (usually not going to happen), and 2. A relationship with someone who listens without judgement and thinks they'll benefit from treatment.  He founded the LEAP Institute to train people in these techniques (www.leapinstitute.org).  LEAP stands for Listen, Empathize, Agree, and Partner.

WW

[wendydarling]

Hi Good2behere 

I was wondering how you are and if you'd had any luck finding a therapist experienced in BPD?

WDx

[Daisy123]

Hello Good2behere,
Thank you for sharing. It does help me to read evwryone’s stories because each story contains so many hard-to-believe events. It’s comforting to know that we aren’t alone - so thank you again. Glad you found this site.I’ve learned so much from the wonderful people here. They are very supportive.

You’ve got 4 people with BPD in your life-it seems to run in my family as well. My DD20 was diagnosed last November. I’ve cousins and sister that I wonder about as they display multiple traits of BPD. Our family has many generations of some form of mental illness especially when it comes to addiction/ substance use disorder.

You’ve got quite a handful of BPD related events going on.
I wish you the best.

Daisy123

[Good2behere]

Thank you, Merlot, Wentworth, Wendydarling and Daisy (Those names sound like guests at a wonderful English Garden Party) for the encouragement. I did read the post about how to get a loved one into therapy. And thank you for the video and book recommendations. I'm always glad to hear what the latest understanding of the illness is, and also any suggestions for strengthening my self. It's good to know that other people can relate.

Right now, my dd isn't causing us any upheaval, which means she's in a sort of remission. However, I don't see her day to day life, and I know that what appears on the surface doesn't always match what's going on under her skin. She is intensive substance abuse therapy, where they have suggested to her (and she agrees with) that she needs to focus more on the mental issues than the substances. She has already been dxed as BPD by several therapists, and she is self-aware, but we're not yet to the part where she's expressing a desire to continue private therapy.

She is aware that she has "good" days where she feels powerful, beautiful and strong and insists to herself that she is always like that. Then there are days when she feels weak and "gross" and bad and insists to herself that she is always like that. If anything challenges either of those positions, she becomes angry or spirals down. She told me all of this herself, so she is actually aware that she has a problem with splitting herself into different personas with different beliefs, and doesn't want to do that anymore. This is a big step because now I can support that as a goal of hers, a goal that might require assistance by a therapist in order to feel better and plan for a better life, rather than clumsily giving her some version of "you need to see a therapist about your BPD so that you can become more acceptable."

The good news is that she recently went through a huge life challenge with her boyfriend and their living arrangement, and I only know the basic gist of it. I am not involved, do not know more than I should, do not have to figure out how to act or not act, nor meet complete strangers in a strained situation, nor learn a new skill set.

Basically, she got herself through it, and I wasn't drained by it. I can remember times that I never even imagined that her life could be chaotic, while mine stays the same. I guess I'm getting closer to what the Taoists call "tranquillity in disturbance."  And she is actually feeling and doing better than she was.

Now let's call for a nice cup of tea.

g2b

[wendydarling]

Good2behere  I'll pour  

It's good to hear you're in a period of relative calm, your DD is actually feeling and doing better than she was is always promising of change, including taking responsibility for the boyfriend upheaval, and you closer to tranquillity of disturbance made me smile. It's been on my mind these last months to offer my DD a spiritual retreat east, she's a year post 14 months DBT.

She told me all of this herself, so she is actually aware that she has a problem with splitting herself into different personas with different beliefs, and doesn't want to do that anymore. This is a big step because now I can support that as a goal of hers, a goal that might require assistance by a therapist in order to feel better and plan for a better life, rather than clumsily giving her some version of "you need to see a therapist about your BPD so that you can become more acceptable."

G2b that is a big step, sharing her awareness with you she doesn't want to do that anymore, speaks, she's leading the way. And the conversation with the substance abuse counsellors around possibly being open to changing focus to mental health issues. It's encouraging to hear they are working with your DD to move through. My DD went from addiction therapy (alcohol) to DBT, she was grateful for learning mindfulness, it helped her bridge the gap till starting DBT. It's wonderful to hear your DD talks to you and you can listen, gain some understanding, connection. Was it a revelation to you her describing splitting into different personas?

I like your approach, the goal is feel better and plan for a better life

Do you feel you are making progress, learning, finding the strength you mention as you go?

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Radcliff]

G2b,

Hello, it's been a while.  How are things going for you?

WW

[Good2behere]

Hi all,

Thanks for checking on me. Where are we at in all of this... .hmm.

DxBPDd24 (that looks like computer code or something) still "seems" to be doing okay. Which is to say that I don't really know what her life looks like, so I can only go by the occasional texts we exchange. The photos she has posted of herself on FB look like she is healthy. She looks "awake" and not dead-eyed, but not manic either with great big ecstatic eyes that say, "Like me, love me, message me, help me, save me, make your whole world about me". Just normal "hi, what's up world" eyes. I am hoping that this will be her internal state more and more of the time as she gets older.

However, I know that her boyfriend, whom she lives with, smokes a lot of weed, and even though she says that she is no longer interested in it, I can't assume that she isn't affected by it in some way, whether she is smoking again or not. I also don't know if she is still required to submit to drug testing or not. If it sounds like I'm saying "I don't know" and "maybe" and "it seems" a lot, it is because I used to think that I knew, and that things were certain, and that what I perceived was true. Now I'm just a big bundle of "I may never know the truth" and I have to accept that. When we were getting her off of heroin/methadone I knew every single detail of her life, down to how much fluid intake she'd had for the day, what nightmares she had, who might be trying to message her, and so on. Now, I don't know what conditions she's living in, or how she manages. To go from one extreme to the other is surreal.

She now likes for me to watch a movie with her simultaneously, and we text our reactions to each other. This has been going well as a way to keep a part of her engaged with me and the world outside of work and her boyfriend. She actually has good taste in movies-- we watched a beautiful and interesting one about Van Gogh at her suggestion, and it was a real pleasure to have her share it with me. It gave me hope for that creative, talented, smart part of her that she only brings out now and again. It also means a lot to me that she has been the one to initiate this in our relationship. One time we were watching a girly romantic comedy, and she texted that her boyfriend had come in next to her. I said something like, "It's okay if you want to watch the rest with me another time, that's okay." She replied, "No, he can deal." And then, "He's into it now, ha ha."  I can't even believe that this is the same girl, who was always revolving her world around some guy's whims. That alone has given me some hope that she is claiming more of her individuality and not assuming that she needs to take turns in who she feels rebellious towards. So apparently, she is not rebelling against work, her boyfriend, her family, nor her own potential. But I only say, "apparently" and just thank the powers that be for this time of peace.

You had asked how I felt when my daughter explained her internal feelings of splitting. I think I felt relieved for a little insight, and proud of her for having the courage to admit to something that difficult and scary. She did wonder if she had more than one personality, and sometimes her substance abuse did seem to either generate or expose sides of her self that I did not know existed. I talked about this with my own therapist when it was happening, and I doubt that I won't have to revisit it somehow, again. It's such a severe issue that she will have to start dealing with it at some point. I will be using gentle persistence about that when it seems appropriate. I will attempt to be the Palmolive of Persuasion-- tough on problems, gentle on people.

I am hoping that she will become more interested in DBT when she realizes that it's not the same merry-go-round of having to repeat her story over and over to a CBT therapist, intake specialist, social worker, doctor, or substance abuse counselor/group until she detaches from its meaning for her. Which is to say, that the field of Psychology is the one that revealed to the rest of us that every time we access a memory it changes slightly. I feel that the constant "tell me a little about why you're here" aspect of bouncing around various therapies has altered her perceptions of reality and her past as much as anything else. I really hope that the field of Psychology will THINK about this.

So, things are "okaaaaay" (she said with misgivings). Which means I can now start facing something else severely surreal, which is the upcoming trial over my husband's brother in the fall that will be across the country. He had BPD by the end of his life and although what happened to him was not his fault, sigh-- I don't need to explain the range of feelings that surround the situations a disordered person finds themselves in. But at some point, I may want to express them.

I'll try to be sensitive about such a difficult topic. Thank you for your concern and attention, everyone. I'll check on your threads to update myself.

G2B

[Merlot]

Hi Good2behere

Thanks for the update and there is so much in there to talk about.

Elements that really struck me were about letting go of the detail of her life and the responsibility. Seeing so many positive things for your daughter; her ability to reflect on her behaviour and to talk about it, to initiating positive engagement with you and safeguarding that as special for her, noting that while positive, your commentary reflects the difficult space of being able to trust that this change will last.  I know how challenging this can be as I have felt my DD turn the corner and wonder if/when the bubble will burst.  What is very encouraging, is your love and constant care for her, coupled with positive outcomes from DBT.  This has to be a good base, although I understand the fickle nature of the mental health profession.

I hope you can find strength to deal with our husband's upcoming issues and hope for your daughter's ongoing stability durnig that time.

Take care, hugs to you

Melrot

[Radcliff]

Thanks for the update!  I'm happy to hear that your daughter seems to be making progress.  The movie idea is neat!  I'm glad you're able to stay connected to her!  Good luck with all you have ahead of you. 

WW

[wendydarling]

Hi Good2behere

How are things, you're likely busy with the trial. I wanted to let you know family here are thinking of you and your family.

WDx