DD33 willing to do therapy with mother but not dad - Part 2

[jones54]

Hi OH,
Sorry but I forgot to say that I did email her and wished her a Merry Christmas yesterday. I said nothing more than I missed and loved her hoping she was ok.
Her response was I love you too but did not understand how I could love her since all the things I did in the past to abandon her ( rehab, boarding school, as well as when her mother and I would not let her live with us due to her drug use... .twice). She has said these things on multiple occasions. I agree with not saying you said it many times to me. It is so hard that you have to choose your words so carefully. I guess same as walking on eggshells. There is nothing much more she said than... .I do not want to hurt you. She will say this at the end a lot.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Ah, ok - thanks for the additional info.

Her response was I love you too

 

but did not understand how I could love her since all the things I did in the past to abandon her ( rehab, boarding school, as well as when her mother and I would not let her live with us due to her drug use... .twice).

Interesting that she is placing this on you, and you alone, though you and her mother held the same boundaries.

As once removed said earlier,

shes lashing out a lot which indicates three things: she has a lot of hurt and resentment, she wants that to be acknowledged, she wants to be heard.

I think the words she uses are less important than the feelings she's expressing with those words.

She's feeling like you don't love her ("I don't know how you can say you love me after all you've done to hurt me.") so I'd focus on that. How that looks is not clear to me because, as I said, I struggle as well.

We can work it out together - - there's plenty of time. The fact you didn't respond right away with "justification" is proof you are working hard to communicate better with her.

I'm rambling now, just want you to know I'm rooting for you. And all of us =)

~ OH

[Only Human]

There is nothing much more she said than... .I do not want to hurt you. She will say this at the end a lot.

I forgot to comment on this. Our daughters need us to be strong, bulletproof. We can break down in private, or here, but showing we are hurt, hurts our daughters. I'm not sure if I shared this already, but the biggest compliment I've received from my D was when she told me, at age 15 or so, "You were a lot easier to manipulate before you got a backbone."

~ OH

[Harri]

Hi jones!   

You are getting some great help from Only Human.  I was hoping she would jump in.  She is really good at this.

Like OH said, we can work on it together.   

OH this is priceless: 

"You were a lot easier to manipulate before you got a backbone."

 

[Isanni]

I attended therapy with my two kids (one with BP) solo (dad was on a work trip). The BP said terrible things about him. I was shocked - exaggerations to make him seem like a terrible, abusive father and a bad husband. I even questioned him after the session, but the therapist (no nonsense, decades of experience) knew it was a means to manipulate both me and the younger sister. And it created an even more hostile environment at home. (She has to dig her feet in and stick with her story and perhaps is mad at me for sticking up for him and balancing the account in front of others so it reflects reality.) Hence, this session caused damage and now she doesn't want to go back to family therapy because she knows it's going to involve talking this out.  This solo session also pointed out we as parents were not holding the kids accountable - I think this discussion is best with both parents. He was labeled a fly-in father who is more like a grandparent and I was the mean one who is sometimes too exhausted to enforce when solo. It was okay to uncover that but better to discuss the changes needed as a complete family.
If the mom does go solo with your daughter, perhaps it's with the condition that they cannot speak about you - that the therapist agrees with this and manages it - or overall parenting styles in a way that puts you in a negative light or places blame.

[jones54]

Thanks Issani. You make a good point that going solo can allow the BPD to bash the absent parent. I know this would happen but my ex would not allow it so best we all go together.
OH and Harri, I think I want to write back and keep it very simple. I would just say " Thanks for responding to my e-mail. I understand you are very upset about the past. Feeling abandoned must be very difficult. I would not want to feel that way. I have never stopped loving you. Hoping we can get past this someday."
Not sure if this is ok or not?

[Only Human]

I think I want to write back and keep it very simple. I would just say " Thanks for responding to my e-mail. I understand you are very upset about the past. Feeling abandoned must be very difficult. I would not want to feel that way. I have never stopped loving you. Hoping we can get past this someday."

I think you're wise to keep it short and validating. I am headed out to spend the evening with my GS but I'll be back after. I just wanted you to know that I saw this and am glad you're here, working it out.

~ OH

[once removed]

It is so hard that you have to choose your words so carefully. I guess same as walking on eggshells.

it does sometimes feel like walking on eggshells. and sometimes, it can even be exactly that.

if you think about it, we all have patterns and habits that dont serve us in the same way that they do with others. around my closest friends, we are pretty loose; we curse, we say things that might offend others, but in a context that we, as friends, understand. i dont do that when i go to church, or into public, or if i meet someone new (though im still my authentic self). you could argue that im walking on eggshells in those situations, but i think theres a fundamental difference between walking on eggshells and being mindful.

you have a highly sensitive daughter who is sensitive to things like perceived criticism, rejection, abandonment, where others might not be. that is part of the context of your relationship. there are certain, general "dos and donts" when it comes to a highly sensitive person (or any type of person really), but it should not involve getting every last word just right. thats simply not realistic. it wouldnt be the authentic you.

bottom line, learning this stuff is like when i got to high school and they made me write essays in a completely new style. its awkward at first. it feels forced. you want to cut loose and be you. but eventually, you master the approach, add it to your repertoire, bend it to you, get natural at it, and you grow as a result.

" Thanks for responding to my e-mail. I understand you are very upset about the past. Feeling abandoned must be very difficult. I would not want to feel that way. I have never stopped loving you. Hoping we can get past this someday."

i agree with OH that its short and validating. i might leave off just the last line... .she might take it to mean that the onus is on her to get past things. "i have never stopped loving you" is a strong note to end it on 

[Only Human]

"i have never stopped loving you" is a strong note to end it on

Yes it is.

~ OH

[jones54]

Thanks OR and OH. She actually e-mailed me again today. It was more of a continuation of her past growing up and all the things I did (as well as her mother ) did wrong to make her feel abandoned and not loved. I am not sure she will ever get over this no matter what I say or do. Her perspective of everything is so warped. I understand that what she says is untrue but real to her. Very hard not to "correct" her but I know that will fall on deaf ears. I was told by a therapist the only way she will see things differently is when she takes responsibility for herself and also gets therapy. Still waiting for each of those to happen.
I will send a short e-mail reply to her trying to support her feelings but I am not hopeful it will make a difference. I do appreciate your input.

[once removed]

why not share some specifics of the email here, and work out what you want to say with feedback?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

She actually e-mailed me again today. It was more of a continuation of her past growing up and all the things I did (as well as her mother ) did wrong to make her feel abandoned and not loved.

Did you send your email and was this in response to that or was this a second email?

Either way, it sounds a bit like she may be testing the waters. Like, if you haven't responded, she could be wondering where the JADE email is... .if you've sent the short email, she's wondering why you didn't JADE. She's expecting JADE, she didn't get it, so she's making sure you have another chance to "do what you always do." Make sense? I could be totally off the mark, of course. It's just what popped into my mind when I read that she'd sent another email.

~ OH

[jones54]

Hi OH. I had not sent anything yet. She simply e-mailed me another two times to "add" to everything she said before. It really is a repeat of what she has said for years. I agree that she is probably perplexed that I have not responded with JADE (my normal). Maybe that is why she wrote again.
OR, here is something she said . " I can't tolerate any more hurt or disappointment or rejection. A parent should, based on my standards, always be there for their child, no matter how old that child is. But you haven't been. You forced me to be homeless not only this year but also a decade ago." This was all related to her drug use and we had boundaries not to have her under our roof. The last time it was under the direction of a therapist to step fully back in hopes she would stop the heroin.
Another thing she said was "Not to mention how you shipped me off to a boarding school because you thought I was interfering with your relationship with Mom. I had two different social workers tell me this. I know the reasons for what you did. The facts can explain themselves." She was sent to boarding school because she had hard liquor in her school locker and came to school drunk. She was not allowed to return and the school counselor agreed that boarding school would be a good option. I actually did not want to send her away. She also states I abandoned her when I sent her to rehab at Hazeldon. Again, I did not want to send her away but it was highly recommended by her addiction therapist because her addiction was so bad.
At this point this is what I want to send to her. Something short : "Thanks for responding to my e-mail. I can see  you are very upset about the past. Feeling abandoned must be very difficult.  I never meant to make you feel this way.  I would not want to feel that way. I can see these feelings are very strong. 
I have never stopped loving you."
Unfortunately anything that I have done in the past trying to help her (usually with her addiction) has been construed by her that I have abandoned her. I am sure she really believes this in her heart and I do not know if she will ever feel different.

[once removed]

I am sure she really believes this in her heart and I do not know if she will ever feel different.

she may, she may not.

i see two options here.

the first is that you can stick with your note. its a good note, JADE free, supportive, warm and empathetic.

the second is that this might be an opportunity to listen, and to make her feel heard, show that you want to understand and improve things. shes venting right now, and theres lots of blame that isnt very constructive, but the bottom line is she wants to be heard and understood... .she is, in her presently not very constructive way, trying to get somewhere with you. you could invite her to say more (ask validating questions is one way), from a place of trying to understand, and eventually conclude by letting her know you want to take the time to reflect on what shes said... .not really say anything more.

right now also may or may not be the best time, or medium, to do that.

what do you think?

[jones54]

Thanks OR. I have not responded to her since I wished her a Merry Christmas so last night she emailed me again and besides bringing up all the past she said she wants me to leave her alone and not contact her. She has done this multiple times in the past. I think this is her response to my not responding so she has to control the situation by telling me not to respond. She did mention that she did not want me to write back and defend my actions. I have no plans to do that and will simply validate her feelings but not her invalid history of what happened. The option of not responding to give the impression that I am listening probably won’t work because she always thinks I am ignoring her.
I plan to send my short note and hope she will see I am listening to her concerns. I will keep you posted.
Thanks for your input.

[jones54]

My 33 DD emailed me and among other verbal abuses said she hoped I put her in my will and then drop dead so at least she finally would get some financial support from me. Ugh. Trying to validate her feelings with statements like that is not easy.

[once removed]

I think this is her response to my not responding so she has to control the situation by telling me not to respond.

you might be right about that.

the shorter note might be better in this case. you do not necessarily want to invite/encourage notions like telling you to drop dead.

the shorter note does no harm. one step at a time... .

[Only Human]

My 33 DD emailed me and among other verbal abuses said she hoped I put her in my will and then drop dead so at least she finally would get some financial support from me. Ugh.

Ugh is right, jones. And ouch. Here's a big hug for you as you try to keep a level head and work toward a better tomorrow

My heart goes out to you, I can tell you are working hard to do things differently and want to keep the door open for reconciliation.

Have you sent the note?

~ OH

[jones54]

I sent the note. She responded and simply said “ I didn’t mean what I said about wishing you would drop dead. I was angry and I regret what I said. I am sorry”.
That is the first time in a long time she has apologized for something she said. Not sure if I should sit tight and not respond or say something like I understand how difficult it has been for you lately?

[once removed]

positive reinforcement is a good response to a sincere apology.

[jones54]

Ok. I replied and said thank you. I also said that she is a good person and I know she did not mean what she said. I appreciated that she said she was sorry and that meant a lot to me. Love you.
Not sure where to go from here. Do not think she will reach out because not sure she would know what to say at this point
( other than to express her bad feelings about the past). I would like to per sue reconciliation and reach out to her but do not want to look overly anxious and am fearful of saying the wrong thing. Sit tight for a bit?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Hi Jones,

I think sitting tight for a bit is a good plan. This latest interaction was different from those before, right? It will be tough for your DD to keep saying, "He'll never change," with proof to the contrary in this, and hopefully future, similar interactions. Not to say she won't continue to say it, but I'm guessing it won't come as easily down the road 

Good going, Jones. How are you feeling after these latest emails?

~ OH

[once removed]

i tend to agree with Only Human... .as she said in another thread, "baby steps".

this ended on a positive note that can allow some ice to thaw, and give you some room to build on.

[Harri]

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