Fairness? We bought a car for DD's sister to use, DD will have a fit

[smilepretty]

My 16yr old just passed her license test!  Yay!  That means we are now in the market for a 3rd family car (not a new car for her).  Trouble is, my 18yr oldBPD DD in college will have a fit.  When she was 16, we did not entertain the idea of a 3rd car because she was in no condition to handle the responsibility, then went off to finish high school at a boarding school so used my car when she was home.  While we have explained to DD16 that the 3rd car will not be hers per se, she will be the one driving it primarily (and has a job to help with gas, etc) to and from school, work, etc, she will have to share it with her sister over the summer.  My DD18 will be home from college (very expensive and fancy private school we are paying for) in May and will likely not understand this situation.  

This seems reasonable and fair to me but my DH is worried about the ramifications of it "looking like" we are buying DD16 a car. I feel less concerned but he is making me a little nervous.  My daughters fight over who is breathing louder or who opened the car door the wrong way or who's black tank top it is so I can easily predict how much fighting this will cause, but it doesn't change the fact that my DD16 is mature, responsible and hard working and should enjoy the freedom that comes along with a license. my DD18 still isn't ready and while she is handling college well, the car would just be a total distraction and liability. (Did I mention she lives on campus and will next year and DEFINITELY doesn't need a car in college! Our town doesn't have sidewalks and is very woodsy and spread out so everyone drives).

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[incadove]

This is a big one, for sure!  I think you are right tho, to not allow the fear of reaction determine what you do for your different kids.   Kudos to you for balancing and getting your BPD dd off to college  and on track.

My dd's sort of can't help but react emotionally when they see large purchases for younger sibs, for me its best to just try not to react, and let it blow over.  I do feel guilty sometimes, though, especially when issues with one dd means I'm not providing for her much right now, while at the moment being able to be close and helpful with other dd.  Would rather they were all in the same state all the time!

Anyone have good suggestions on how to defuse the jealousy trigger?  It really seems to hit them, and I've had circular conversations demanding validation of dd's feelings, but I can't honestly agree with them.  I know we're supposed to validate the valid, like "its natural to feel jealous when... ." but this doesn't seem to help because its like an accusation of jealousy... .its not even really jealousy, its more like a feeling of being 'less than' or treated as 'less'.

Anyway sounds like you are on a great track smilepretty, congrats to your dd16 on license and job, and your dd18 on getting thru semesters of college!

[Only Human]

Hi smilepretty,

How's your DD doing in college, still no roommate?

I understand wanting to prepare for DD's visit in May. As I recall, there was some conflict during Thanksgiving's visit so I can see why you'd feel apprehensive and want to try for the best possible outcome.

I echo what incadove says here:

My dd's sort of can't help but react emotionally when they see large purchases for younger sibs, for me its best to just try not to react, and let it blow over. 

I do understand how difficult that can be and, lucky for you (for all of us!) we have some tools that may help. Have you read this post, pinned to the top of the board? HOW TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THIS SITE It includes links to some helpful articles, but there are many many more.

How has communication gone with your DD since she went back to school after the last break? When do you plan to tell her about the 3rd car and what do you think she'll say? Knowing how communication is going presently will help us to know how to how to advise you. If you feel so inclined, please feel free to post a recent conversation - it's sometimes helpful to do "post mortems" with past interactions.

~ OH

[smilepretty]

Incadove: You nailed it... .it's the jealousy trigger.  It does seem that no matter how much or how little I do for my DD16, her sister never can see it the same way as I do.  I know alot of that is normal sibling jealousy but when the question of fairness takes its toll on all of the relationships, I feel I have to justify my choices. Interestingly when I take my DD18 shopping periodically, my DD16 can get very jealous, even though she understands that DD18 isn't around as much and that shopping is a real bonding experience for us.

Only Human: thanks for your follow up questions.  Still no roommate, but I think that will change next month.  We talked to her about moving out and taking a single but she doesn't want to, so she will have no choice but to deal with whomever moves in and will HAVE to make it work, no matter what (I think it will be a good learning opportunity for her in the end).  Luckily while she was home over xmas break we were able to have a discussion.  She knows we are thinking about another car and I guess is just hoping at this point we will give in and get a 4th, which just isn't realistic or necessary and she will have to figure out how to handle her disappointment. Her desires and "needs" for a car are just not rooted in reality.
 Thanks for the link, will read up on some of the articles.

[Feeling Better]

Hi smilepretty,

Speaking from my own experience, I think that your husband is right to have some worries, you have to be prepared for all outcomes, but it is good that you have already discussed this with your DD18. How did she take it?

I have always tried to treat each of my children fairly, just like you, and I always ended up feeling that I needed to justify my choices, just as you say that you do. Justifying doesn’t work with BPD. I wonder if you have heard of JADE? It stands for Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain, these are things that we can get caught up in when dealing with someone with BPD. Here is the link for you:

J.A.D.E.

I hope that you find it useful

FB x

[smallbluething]

Oh my - I'm going through the same over a damn cat! My younger nonBPD DD wants a cat. She's 18, a responsible Uni student and will be the cats primary carer because we go off on trips for weeks at a time and don't want to be responsible for the cat. She will be likely living at home for quite a few years to come.

Older BPD disorder says well if she's having a cat I want one too (she does really like cats). Problems are she is constantly away couch surfing at friends (so she can smoke weed/get drunk). I also don't think she is responsible enough to look after it although her cat-loving BF probably is. However a cat needs a stable home and territory. She says she will take it around with her but you can't do that to a cat.

So I have a conversation with her to tell her younger DD may get a cat - she says she wants a cat too. Says we have to have 2 cats cos one will get bored. I say that may not work because she is away so much and couldn't care for it. Then she says well we can't have any cats because an unhappy home isn't suitable for a cat. I say that isn't the case (she is the unhappy one younger DD is fine). Then BPD-DD says well she (younger DD) can't have a cat because she might have to go to hospital (she has MS but is reasonably well) and who will look after it? -obviously in the rare event that happens we will look after the cat. Round and round in bloody circles.

Initially she wanted to go with younger DD to help at least choose the 1 cat but I know that whatever cat younger DD wants she will try to veto it and insist on another one. I just told younger DD that she should go and choose whatever damn cat she wants from the shelter and leave older DD out of it.

No biggie but just another daft landmark of the BPD roller coaster. :-)

[smilepretty]

It's 6 weeks later and sh*t just hit the fan.  My BPD DD in college is arguing HARD for a car.  She is "the.only.person.without.a.car".  Her 19th birthday is in 3 weeks and the ONLY thing she wants is a car.  A new car.  Not a 200,000 mile clunker.  She doesn't need a car. She can't handle the responsibility. And did I mention she doesn't need a car? Small campus, free transportation to target, cvs, chick fil a, etc.   But in reality my 16DD doesn't really need one either, it would greatly improve her life (and mine but DH doesn't care about that).  He is petrified that bringing home a car will implode in our faces and she will decompensate, unravel, etc.  I TOTALLY understand his fear, but I HATE that we are held hostage by what she might do/say/feel.  We are blessed and can afford one more car but cannot afford two.  Not to mention my BPD DD doesn't leave her dorm room other than for class which is less than .4 miles.

Just a crappy night, had to vent, hate seeing my family fighting.  Hate seeing my 16yr old made to feel that she can't be indulged (even though she deserves it)  because of what that indulgence might do to my BPD DD.  Sorry for the pity party, and sorry, I know my kids sound spoiled, they are a little bit.

[mamabolivia]

Wow! I just realised something about my BPD DD, that she has constantly wanted what she perceived of as the SAME as what her 2-year older non-BPD sister had. So, I was a bit slow on the uptake with that.

She doesn't do it any more. Perhaps, looking back on it I didn't give it any power. I tried to be very fair when they were smaller children, then their circumstances changed radically when non-BPD was 16 (BPD was 14) and left to boarding school in another country.

I treat her the same as anyone else: she asks, I say yes, or I say no. And that's the end of the conversation.

We have been through the BUT WHY DOES SHE GET TO... .? BUT WHY DO YOU BUY HER A... .I explained very simply and refused to continue a meaningless conversation. For my DD, there is NEVER ENOUGH. And that's one of the characteristics of BPD, to fill the void they need more, and more, and more. They compare themselves with others and it's never-ending. They NEVER HAVE/ARE enough. 

Even in a family with no BPDs each child has to have what they need, and it doesn't all have to be calculated down to the last penny, measured, valued, etc. For me there is a grain of truth in everything that anyone says and it's worth listening to, but at the end of the day you know what you know, so if you have decided that you won't give her car, that's what you have decided. full stop. end of story.

So well done to her for being in college - that's a feat in itself (that you have helped a lot with) and when she can have a car I'm sure you'll buy her a car too! Just not now... .

[Panda39]

I think jealousy is likely as well.

I would just frame it as we've decided to get a second car for "you girls" to share when you are home.

For me the next question then becomes what will your rules be for sharing the car in the summer?  This is where I see more potential conflict.

Panda39

[smilepretty]

Panda39, this summer will be a nightmare! Yes, I will have to put together a schedule of how/when/WHY the girls will have to share a car. And I will be the bad guy as always, my DH will probably not be terribly helpful.  There will definitely be conflict!  And to  mamabolivia's point, no matter what we do for our BPD DD it will never be enough.  Even if I can show that she gets the car more than my non BPD DD, it will still not be enough. Even If i give her my car and I stay home stranded, it will not be enough.  So that makes me feel like I fairness or not, affordability or not, practicality or not, nothing we do for her will ever be enough. 

mamabolivia, thanks for your input -having 2 DD, 2 years apart, so competitive and jealous of each other.  Ugh. 

[GaGrl]

Will your daughters be working this summer? If so, you might make working the #1 criteria for using the car - you work, you get the car X time or X days, you pay the gasoline.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Panda39]

... .nothing we do for her will ever be enough.  

I think it is key to know that enough is never enough and accept that.  Then you can stop trying to fulfill the bottomless pit of need because you know it will never end and then you can begin to do what you want/can.  You begin living your life and values within your limits.  It is okay to do that and not feel bad, guilty, or like you are a bad parent. Part of this is getting comfortable with your discomfort around your daughters discomfort in some ways.  

It is okay to have boundaries and when you have someone with BPD in your life boundaries are a necessity.  So set those ground rules and consequences for use of the car.  Your daughter won't like it, but she won't like it anyway so do what you need to do.  

Panda39

[Meadowslark]

I had to log in to try and help with this situation. Something very similar happened to me and my family (my sibling is the pwBPD here, and I'm the elder of two children).

Truth be told, from your younger non-BPD daughter's perspective, life probably hasn't been very fair, either. Big sis causes trouble and gets sent to a private school. Non-BPD sister works and goes to school and is responsible, doing what she needs to do. This is very close to what happened in our family.

I graduated college and was given a used car as a present. I really appreciated that and had proven I could work, go to school and be responsible. My sibling, who was attending community college on my parents' dime, threw a fit. "It's not far, she gets a car! What do I get?" My sibling is not responsible, could not hold down a job without causing a scene or having a meltdown and quitting, and was not making good grades or good decisions.

As the child in a similar situation, I would implore you to use strict boundaries with regards to this sticky situation. If the BPD daughter isn't responsible, she doesn't get a car. Period. In my eyes (speaking as the child), it wouldn't be fair at all to allow the pwBPD to wreak havoc and then gain use of a car. It's like rewarding bad behavior, if that makes any sense.

As an adult, however, I can understand how you'd want to try and keep the peace. I do wonder if such a thing is possible, as with BPD in general, there is no such thing as "peace". You want to treat your daughters fairly, and I respect that. But what is "fair" when one child is functional and one is not? I wonder if "fair" simply can't be applied here in the same manner as it would if two children were both functional.

Either way, I think boundaries will be absolutely key. I think chaos and carnage are going to erupt no matter what you do, as is the nature of the illness. I'm so sorry you have to even deal with this in the first place.

[zachira]

Your post warmed my heart, that you are able to do what is right for each of your daughters and not making everything about your daughter with BPD. So many families, choose to favor one child over another. Sometimes the child with the most serious problems becomes the center of attention while the child who is emotionally mature and doing well, does not get any credit for their maturity. You are recognizing that your 16 year old has the maturity to own a car while letting your daughter with BPD know that there are certain rewards for achieving more emotional maturity.

[smilepretty]

Zachira, I was talking and venting with a dear friend who I trust and she suggested that BOTH girls should be entitled to driving our new car when their behavior warrants it.  Alot of what my BPD DD does is manipulate to get what she wants. I know she cant help her diagnoses, but it could motivate her to work harder on her behavior, which to me is the equivalent of my non BPD DD working on her good grades, job, etc.  My non BPD DD has had her share of crap too... .3 knee surgeries in 4 years, is in constant pain , and is possibly facing a very invasive, reconstructive knee surgery, all while trying to apply to college. Given all that she faces, she has to also work hard not to take stuff out on me,  she works hard on keeping a positive attitude, she works hard at making the best of a crappy situation... .its just different than how I see my BPD working on herself. I could go on... .but it's friday afternoon.  TGIF. 

[zachira]

You are a wonderful parent doing the best for your daughters while recognizing their differences and challenges.