Its been 2 weeks. I was so strong last week and this week I'm not...

[Theperfectsky]

I'm so emotional this week. I miss him so much. I know i cant go back with him and that is what hurts the most. Ever since I ket him I could never stop thinking about him. I have never felt a connection as strong as I did with him. It has always been so deep and more spiritual (not of this world) if that makes any sense. Idk how im supposed to get over him. I wish he would get help.

Just now he said he missed holding me. To which I responded with a long and emotional response how I missed that too and how much I love him and want to be with him but know I cant to which he responded with asking for pics of our daughter. And I feel just so hurt and pissed off. He just completely ignores my feelings as always. Invalidates them. But yet he misses us and wants us to come back but he cant even talk about the important things. I dont get it

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi TPS,

i moved your thread here. even if youve made up your mind as far as breaking up, its a good idea to be at least a month out before moving to Detaching. if youre actively communicating, and if theres even a 5% chance of getting back together, youre going to need the tools here.

He just completely ignores my feelings as always. Invalidates them

it sounds like you want him to hear and acknowledge your feelings. if there were one thing you want him to hear most and understand, what would it be?

[Theperfectsky]

Yes. That he hurt me and he's sorry.

[Theperfectsky]

That he knows this is because of his actions

[SunandMoon]

Hi TPS

I'm sorry. I gather you tried to post on another board and had your post moved. It's a weird policy but at least you can read on the other boards for now. Anyone who has followed your story knows that you have left your relationship for your safety and to protect your kids, and that you need support with leaving. Sorry you're stuck with us for now!

He just completely ignores my feelings as always. Invalidates them.

That hurts. Even after he's lost you, he still doesn't get that you're a separate person, with your own feelings and wants and needs. He still doesn't get that he's hurt you badly and destroyed your relationship.

Whether he's BPD, npd or aspd - or a combination - he obviously doesn't believe there's anything wrong with him. That means he will probably never get help.

We do understand. These relationships can be so intense and affect us so deeply. These people can be so amazing in so many ways and we bond to them so closely. It's hard to think that someone we love so much might be so deeply flawed that we can never have the life we dreamed with them.

Please keep writing. We know you need support and strength to get through this  

SaM x

[once removed]

when a relationship breaks down, its often about so many things, and both parties tend to have very different perspectives about it.

even if he were to accept full blame, and apologize for it, you would likely still have a great deal of conflict that built steadily over time.

if you have broken up with him in an effort to get him to see the error of his ways, it is likely not going to be that simple.

if you have broken up with him but the two of you are still arguing about the relationship conflict, the two of you are not likely to agree on it, and it may just further the tension between the two of you.

what do you want to see happen here?

[Theperfectsky]

Hi TPS

I'm sorry. I gather you tried to post on another board and had your post moved. It's a weird policy but at least you can read on the other boards for now. Anyone who has followed your story knows that you have left your relationship for your safety and to protect your kids, and that you need support with leaving. Sorry you're stuck with us for now!

That hurts. Even after he's lost you, he still doesn't get that you're a separate person, with your own feelings and wants and needs. He still doesn't get that he's hurt you badly and destroyed your relationship.

Whether he's BPD, npd or aspd - or a combination - he obviously doesn't believe there's anything wrong with him. That means he will probably never get help.

We do understand. These relationships can be so intense and affect us so deeply. These people can be so amazing in so many ways and we bond to them so closely. It's hard to think that someone we love so much might be so deeply flawed that we can never have the life we dreamed with them.

Please keep writing. We know you need support and strength to get through this  

SaM x

Thats exactly how I feel. How he will say something like he did this morning or he will say he wants his family together and then I respond and he doesn't even acknowledge what i say let alone respond.  He will usually respond with something about our daughter which is so frustrating for me. How can you say you miss this or that and not even do anything about it? And I told him just that. You dont care about any of those things because if you did you would be doing something about it.

Its like this feeling that I can't speak. Its like I'm screaming at the top of my lungs and he acts like he can't hear me because he doesn't even respond to a single thought I had. He comes back with something not even related like we are in 2 diff conversations. Its beyond frustrating. Its hurtful. It hurts so bad. He's like you want to continue to not let me see my daughter. What are you talking about? Is what I'm saying to myself. He hasn't asked to see her. He hasn't said when hes off work. To make arrangements. NOTHING. He just says everyday how much he misses her. But yet he does NOTHING about it. I don't understand that. I just wish he would tell me he doesnt love me he doesn't care so I can have some closure and start the grieving process. Im sorry but you dont want your family back when you arent doing anything to change the situation. He can't even have a conversation about it! He avoids everything like the plague

[Theperfectsky]

when a relationship breaks down, its often about so many things, and both parties tend to have very different perspectives about it.

even if he were to accept full blame, and apologize for it, you would likely still have a great deal of conflict that built steadily over time.

if you have broken up with him in an effort to get him to see the error of his ways, it is likely not going to be that simple.

if you have broken up with him but the two of you are still arguing about the relationship conflict, the two of you are not likely to agree on it, and it may just further the tension between the two of you.

what do you want to see happen here?

I broke up with him because it wasnt healthy or safe. Of course I would like for him to see the error of his ways

My wish would be for him to get help and us work on being together in the future. I know this will never happen tho and it's very hard for me to accept. This is what I'm having trouble with. Seeing him for who he truly is. Ive always had the problem of seeing bfs in their best light. Seeing their potential. Its a curse.

Him telling me he will go to therapy and actually not doing anything about it gives me hope and just pisses me off. Because it's false hope. I feel like he does it on purpose to keep me hanging on. Bread crumbling...

[I Am Redeemed]

I'm so sorry, perfectsky, it is incredibly hurtful when you realize that someone you love is not taking responsibility for their end of the relationship, or even acknowledging that they hurt you. I went through that over and over with my ex. The times he did attempt counseling, I believe he glossed over the true issues (or didn't even address them) and eventually quit going. He learned nothing, and to this day has no real self-awareness.

My ex has done nothing to attempt to set up visitation with his son other than to leave me voicemail messages that either attempt to make me feel sorry for him or accuse me of parental alienation. He seems to still believe that I "took his son away from him", regardless of his behavior that was a threat to my physical and emotional well-being.

I understand what you mean about seeing the good in people, sometimes to a fault. I do that, too. I rooted for him when others wrote him off. I could see the good qualities and I tried so hard to get him to acknowledge and get help for the dysfunctional ones, so the good could flourish. I finally had to accept that it wasn't up to me to harness the good, it was up to him, and since he refused, I had to respect his decision to do so. It hurt, very much, but it is out of my hands. I turned the compassion I had for him towards myself, and I have gotten so much more in a return on that investment.

[Theperfectsky]

I'm so sorry, perfectsky, it is incredibly hurtful when you realize that someone you love is not taking responsibility for their end of the relationship, or even acknowledging that they hurt you. I went through that over and over with my ex. The times he did attempt counseling, I believe he glossed over the true issues (or didn't even address them) and eventually quit going. He learned nothing, and to this day has no real self-awareness.

My ex has done nothing to attempt to set up visitation with his son other than to leave me voicemail messages that either attempt to make me feel sorry for him or accuse me of parental alienation. He seems to still believe that I "took his son away from him", regardless of his behavior that was a threat to my physical and emotional well-being.

I understand what you mean about seeing the good in people, sometimes to a fault. I do that, too. I rooted for him when others wrote him off. I could see the good qualities and I tried so hard to get him to acknowledge and get help for the dysfunctional ones, so the good could flourish. I finally had to accept that it wasn't up to me to harness the good, it was up to him, and since he refused, I had to respect his decision to do so. It hurt, very much, but it is out of my hands. I turned the compassion I had for him towards myself, and I have gotten so much more in a return on that investment.

Im glad you're doing so well now! I hope to get there sooner than later.

That is exactly it. Once you left the relationship you tried to get him to acknowledge them as well as when you were in? How long did you try? How long did it take you to accept that he wasnt going to try?

I feel like there is something wrong with me that im still trying to get him to try. This man abused me why should i care? I hate that i care. I hate that i still love him. He just told me "fine move on" I said you dont want to talk to me about anything. You dont want to do anything to make changes. Then what else am I left to do? I know i read somewhere on here about no win situations. I said just like me leaving you leave me no other choice. He keeps putting me in these no win situatuons. It isnt fair. Idk what to do about it

[I Am Redeemed]

It took me nearly seven years to realize that he was not learning from consequences, he was repeating the same drastic, horribly abusive behaviors and patterns, and all attempts at getting him help had been exhausted.

In those seven years, I was physically assaulted (ranging from spitting on me to breaking my bones) at least fifty times. I still went back, hoping that this time, maybe, he would see that he was killing me, killing us.

Even the final time that I left, I kept having contact. I even gave him money for food when he got out of jail (for assaulting me), paid his hotel room rent, brought our son to see him. I was dead set that I was not moving back in with him, but part of me still held out hope that he would seek real treatment this time, especially because he mentioned checking himself into an inpatient mental health facility upon his release. He didn't.

I began to see that he was not owning up to the abuse, and gradually, he began to get angry and frustrated that all his usual promises and tactics to pull me back in were not working. He eventually sexually assaulted me and prevented me from leaving. That was the final straw, and I cut contact and sought support from dv services, where I was connected with a wonderful therapist who is doing emdr therapy with me.

Over the years, my ex went through a batterer intervention class, two different individual counselors, AA and NA, outpatient treatment at the local mental health center, anger management, and family violence prevention counseling. He also attended parenting classes where we were taught about the effects of dv and emotional abuse of one parent by the other on children, and he also went through periods where he would attend church and read the Bible. He even got baptized. Nothing, NOTHING sank in.

Even after I left the final time, I scrutinized our every conversation for any slivers of remorse. I found regret, and the more I learned about the difference between the two, I realized that the regret was only because he was sorry he was experiencing consequences. It wasn't genuine, and he thought, as always, that the consequences were too extreme, unwarranted, and unfair. VICTIM stamp on his situation, again

When I read the book "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" by Lundy Bancroft, (even though I technically had already left, but was kicking around the hope that he could still change) I realized just how deep his issues were, that he had multiple issues, and that the extent of treatment it would take to untangle all the roots that were twisted up around his dysfunction would take years of tenacious, sincere effort.

He might as well have been on the moon, he was so far away from showing signs of the willingness to put in that kind of work. It's easier to be a misunderstood victim of circumstances, so that is how he sees it.

[Theperfectsky]

Omg. I'm so sorry to hear you went through all that. That had to of been so scary. This is exactly how I feel and it sounds exactly like my ex too without all the physical assault. That is crazy he went through all that and still nothing sank in! Your strength tho is amazing! That you were able to leave and able to go NC and able to move on...i admire that!

Was he ever diagnosed with anything?
How old was your son when you were in the relationship? Does he (your son) have any issues from the trauma? I worry about this with my kids...

I need to get that book

[I Am Redeemed]

He was diagnosed with PTSD and Depression with Psychotic Features; also an adjustment disorder and of course the substance abuse disorder. The counselor decided on that instead of schizo-affective something-or-other, I don't remember exactly what it was. When he went to jail this last time, I requested a psychological evaluation. He said the evaluator mentioned the possibility of BPD to him, but no formal diagnosis was made, and there was no treatment ordered by the court.

I actually have six children. D11-almost-12 and D10 are not his. Our children together are S7, S6, D5, and S3. When I left in Nov of 2017, S3 was about to turn 2.

I lost custody of my five older children because of this relationship. CPS was called on us (by the school, I believe, because I showed up to pick up my kids and they could tell I had a black eye even though I had make up on) and they took my kids because they said that there was a current no contact order between us and I was disregarding it. There wasn't, but that was never brought up in court. Anyway, that is what sparked the slew of different programs and counseling that he had to attend. In the end, they still refused to give my kids back and my sister now has legal guardianship. Ironically, at the same time CPS was pushing for my sister to get my older kids, S3 was born, and they made no move to take him out of my custody. 

My youngest seems to be okay, but S7 had severe behavioral issues, and D11 and D10 had to go to counseling for nearly two years. D11 was diagnosed with acute stress, and D10 had to be hospitalized in a behavioral health facility.

[Theperfectsky]

Omg that is horrible. Im so sorry. I can't imagine how hard that was with 6 children. It gets hard for me and I only have 2. Wow. You really should be very proud of yourself!

So you and your ex were together for a long time?

I hope your children are doing better now!

[Theperfectsky]

I wish my ex would get a psychological evaluation. Although I think he already knows there is something since he is a physician and that is why he wont seek therapy.

The fact that he has to put on applications that he has had a psych eval and I'm sure these things would affect his career which I feel he is doing more for his family than himself.

He has to take care of his family. He is the only boy. This is what he says of course and the fact that he was such a screw up that they thought he would amount to nothing. His words again. So his career is VERY important to him. It took him forever to even see someone which was supposed to be a psychiatrist but he went to a GP instead and was put on lexapro for his anxiety and depression because again he didn't think that would look good with him being a Dr and all

[I Am Redeemed]

Yes, seven years. I can't believe I hung in there that long.

My kids are doing better now. I worry about the long term effects of the trauma on them, though. Most of them have not seen their dad except one time over the last two years. He claimed his job wouldn't let him off work to have visitation with them, and when he got it set up on Saturdays, he went one time and then canceled the next two visits, so they stopped scheduling them. Now, of course, he feels like a victim over that.

How would anyone know if he was seeing a psychiatrist? If he went voluntarily, why would he have to put that on an application?

that sounds like an excuse to me. I mean, surely there are doctors out there who have mental health diagnoses, and still have good jobs.

[Theperfectsky]

He said that is one of the questions asked on an application.

Yea  he has a lot of excuses

Ugh I'm feeling so drained. Ive cried a lot tonight. He's so frustrating! I read in another post about you can't have BPD alone you have to have someone to react with? Interact with? Is this true?

[Theperfectsky]

I was with my son's father for 7 years. He was mentally abusive too. My ex tho was far worse- it's so weird because my son's father said really horrible things to me. My ex said hurtful things but not as horrible as my son's father. My ex is more mind effing. Like literally crazy. You can def tell a diff. I was with him for 2 years and didn't know the depth of his issues until we lived together a little over 9m ago

[I Am Redeemed]

He said that is one of the questions asked on an application.

Yea  he has a lot of excuses

Ugh I'm feeling so drained. Ive cried a lot tonight. He's so frustrating! I read in another post about you can't have BPD alone you have to have someone to react with? Interact with? Is this true?

I'm not sure what was meant by that. PwBPD have BPD all the time, alone or not. Maybe they were talking about some of the coping mechanisms of BPD, such as projecting their negative feelings onto another person. If a pwBPD needs to dump their bad feelings onto someone else, and no one else is there, there's no one to project their ''stuff" onto.

I know this really is frustrating, TPS, and I realize that you just want him to hear you and acknowledge the pain he caused. But you might be wearing yourself out trying to get him to hear you and understand. Sometimes we just have to leave behind the idea that we can get another to recognize the impact their behavior has had on us. Moving forward without that closure is tough, but it is possible. It's a one day at a time thing, which is hard to accept when you're in the thick of it, but gradually it does get better.

[Theperfectsky]

He avoids everything like the plague so idk how we will ever have a convo about important things moving forward like making arrangements to get my things or anything concerning our daughter.

I know sometimes I can come off strong because I tend to let out everything I feel and think in the moment and I know pwBPD they are always overwhelmed so that doesnt help. I did apologize to him for that

[once removed]

I feel like there is something wrong with me that im still trying to get him to try.

i dont think this indicates that there is something wrong with you as a person.

but its not a strategy that is likely to be constructive. put yourself in his shoes here...if he broke up with you, and told you if only you would change, things would be different, you might feel a lot of things...confused, blamed, you might have your own list of things you wanted him to change which would only polarize the conflict.

if you are breaking up with him in hopes that he will see the error of his ways and make a drastic change, it sends a mixed message with negative reinforcement. to revive the relationship will likely require major changes on both sides in order to get the relationship on a healthier trajectory.

Tps, i sense that you are looking for quick fixes to major problems that did not start over night, but built up over a long period of time, and would not be solved over night.

likewise though, i think if you are committed to a breakup, then your strategy is going to confuse and frustrate you both further. it holds out hope for you, and for him, and it carries on all of the as of yet unresolved conflict.

so if you are breaking up with him, but struggling, then in that case, it might help to take a short period of space, and then start to tackle the logistics, while keeping emotions and old conflicts out of it. the tools on the Co-Parenting board can really help with this.

what do you think?

[Theperfectsky]

It wasnt safe or healthy and thats why I broke up. I was hoping he would see the error of his ways and make changes. I have been in T for a long time and become healthier everyday. I would love for him to do the same and become healthy too. I would love to be together with him in a healthy relationship with love and respect. I dont want our family to be broken. But i am now in GA. I would like to take this time for him to work through and unpack a lot of his trauma. I say him because I still go to T and will continue to so I'm already (ive been) working on bettering myself.

I can see how this can be confusing to him. We are broken up but in the sense of separated to do individual work. I have no desire to see other people. I'm allowing the space and hoping he will do what is needed for us to be a family again. I can see how my message is mixed and with negative reinforcement. I said in another reply how I know I overwhelm him because I say what I feel and think as it happens and that can be overload and him being bombarded.

How do I convey the message I want and with positive reinforcement?

[SunandMoon]

Wow, I am Redeemed... reading your posts is heartbreaking. Such a graphic picture of what happens when you keep hoping for change and going back, and the abuse just keeps getting worse, until it becomes normalised. My heart really goes out to you.

TPS, the mixed messages - talking to him all the time, telling him you love him - just reinforces to him that there is nothing really wrong with him and that if he keeps chipping away, you will come back.

There's a lot of lessons to be learned from what I am Redeemed has posted. The main thing is that her guy did a lot of counselling and still nothing sunk in. If you honestly don't believe there's anything wrong with you, then doing counselling or therapy is just going through the motions.

With narcissists, they firmly believe they are smarter than any therapist, so they just say whatever they think the therapist wants to hear. With Antisocial personalities, they are incapable of feeling remorse or empathy for their victim. Even with BPD, unless the person really accepts that they have a problem and are willing to put in the hard work to change, it will just be a cycle of pushing blame away.

How do I convey the message I want and with positive reinforcement?

For me it would be stating clearly that I am not coming back and do not want contact with him until he's in therapy and showing signs of change. From then on, no contact unless it's specifically about logistics, such as his daughter.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

Exiting a BPD relationship: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61980.0

[Theperfectsky]

But I do love him. I told him I love him and care for him and would like to be together in a HEALTHY relationship and I asked how can we do that? He responded with the usual send pics of his daughter...
Hes continuing to avoid like the plague so like you said I think I should go NC which is going to be VERY hard for me.
Do I just diappear and go NC or do I say something more than what ive already said?

[SunandMoon]

As I said above, TPS, I would state very firmly and clearly that I am not coming back and do not want contact with him until he's in therapy and showing signs of change.

Whether you do that with a phone call or via email, you say what you mean and you stick with it.

Of course going NC will hurt you a lot. The constant calls from him are giving you hope and you want hope. That's normal. We all want hope! That's also why so many women stay in abusive relationships.

Remember that going no or low contact is about you and protecting yourself. Don't use it if you are thinking this is a way to manipulate or control him.

Please read the links I posted above.

SaM x

[Theperfectsky]

I just read the no contact one and I havent finished the exiting one yet.
The last thing I said is what I stated above. How do I say I want no contact with him now?

[once removed]

its a complicated situation, Tps. an especially complicated one.

no contact is a detaching tool. it is very different than taking a time out or taking some space to get your bearings.

it can in lots of cases significantly up the ante, and given a history of domestic violence, you want to think such a thing through.

furthermore, you share a daughter; it isnt realistic. i would strongly encourage you to get some legal advice, in that regard.

lastly, if you arent done with the relationship, and its not clear that you are, it will almost certainly fail, and mean even more pain.

so what can you do?

the first thing i would do is get some legal advice. i would get in touch with a domestic violence organization as well. arm yourself with information.

the second thing i would do, for now, is to stop any conversation about getting back together or what that would take. maybe that can take place later, but if hes not responsive to it right now, its not productive, and in any event, rushing straight back into a relationship would also almost certainly fail, and could even be dangerous.

i would, for right now (the next week or two) keep any conversation to discussion around the kids. share pictures, but before you make any arrangements as far as him seeing them, exchanging belongings, any of that, id get in touch with legal advice, and with a domestic violence organization.

does that make sense?

[Theperfectsky]

I've already talked to a DV person. As far as legal I already know all about it because I went through it with my son's father. In ga fathers have no rights to children born out of wedlock unless they become legitimized. Which then my ex would have to take me to court and ugh. That's no fun

[Harri]

Can everyone please review our Domestic Violence Protocol.  Even if you are familiar with it, a review can be helpful to keep centered and focused on the long term goals here.

[Harri]

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