So...there is a pantry that I suppose is kinda like the one she wanted

[formflier]

Should I say anything to her about it.  I've been out of town for a few days, so have no idea how it was accomplished.

She had made it clear she didn't want my opinion, involvement..etc etc, so I figure I would not bring it up unless she does.

I briefly looked in the pantry and noticed drywall was painted before it was sanded or finished, lots of gaps in the shelves (which was her primary complaint about the method I was proposing for temporary use). 

I get it I'm unlikely to be asked for my opinion, but if I am...do I defer and just express that I hope she is satisfied or something like that?

It appears she placed the shelves in a manner that I asked her to such that it wouldn't interfere with current/future mechanical work..so that's good.



FF

[Fian]

I am not sure what is the best option, but maybe it would be good to consider what choices you have.

1.  Lie through your teeth and say "it look's great honey!"

2.  Give a half-truth.  "I am glad you took my thoughts into consideration", and avoid the bad part.

3.  Tell the full truth.  "If we had worked on this together, the end result would have been better."

4.  Avoid giving an answer.

For each of these, there is the option to wait for her to ask you, or you seek her out to give your opinion.

[Notwendy]

Consider that a first home project isn't likely to be done perfectly. She wanted to try this on her own and did it on her own. Having you help her, she would not have the chance to do this.

Grand scheme of things: it's a pantry, not a foyer. The main thing that is going on in there is food storage- and it doesn't have to be perfect. Also, if it can be made, it can also be fixed later if she wants it. I'd let it be, tell her you are happy for her for her accomplishment.

I would like to do more in my house, but it's an ordeal discussing these things with my H. He's a perfectionist about these things. I'd like to just try, even if it isn't perfect.

One day, I don't know what got into him to do this, but he decided to bake something with the kids. He doesn't cook. I watched him mess up the recipe- I knew it would turn out badly. It did. Later he said " why didn't you tell me I was doing this?

Because if I intervened, the end product would have been nicer, but the experience wouldn't be the same. I cook all the time. It would be me and the kids in the kitchen and H disengaged.

It was just him and the kids. He was trying something new. Had I made "suggestions" they would have come across as criticism.

Surely, FF, there are things your wife does better than you do, and you can construct a pantry better than she can, but this isn't the point. The experience can be the value. So my H and the kids had a fine time in the kitchen messing up a recipe. Your wife experienced doing this on her own.

[formflier]

So...how did you handle the "intervene" thing and cooking.  If he had asked..would you have helped?

The chain of BPD logic that will show up one day, and which I won't be part of is..."I want a perfect pantry like in that picture, my husband wouldn't give it to me so he made me do it myself, I don't have a perfect pantry that I want/deserve therefore it's my hubby's fault..."

Or some version of that..

It's much "cleaner" to stay away from blame to completely stay uninvolved, especially for a project worthy enough to threaten divorce over.

Oh..not sure if it matters.  My wife does home improvement stuff from time to time.  Some turn out exquisite and some are like this, where if it was a worker or company that would have been hired I would refuse to pay/demand it be fixed.


FF

[formflier]

So...here is how the pantry thing came up this morning.

She's getting ready to leave and calls me into the pantry.

her

"So...have you looked at the pantry?"

me

"Briefly.. "

her

she discusses how she plans on arranging things..cans here, boxes here..etc etc

me

"Sounds like you've thought it through.."

her

She references stacks of things that haven't been put away, tells me to put them on the tables in the garage and she will work through them later this evening.

me

"Oh my...well, I'll have to see what I get into today."  (not going to debate if I'm her employee or if she should ask...or if she wanted me to have no part of this before...why now..etc etc)

Otherwise we had a completely pleasant (I would say above average) morning.

FF

[Notwendy]

If he had asked I would have helped.

My H hasn't spent much time with the kids when they were younger. I am glad he makes these efforts now. When I saw him doing this with the kids, I really wanted it to be just them. I did walk into the kitchen as I had things to do there and noticed things didn't look right, but decided- who cares? The experience was greater for me than the end product.

When I do try things around the house ( besides the usual cooking/housekeeping) my H tends to direct/critique: you missed a spot, what's that blotch there? Even when I am cooking something for him, he will be a back seat driver " can you add more of this? I'd like more of that". Honestly, I wish he'd just let me do something without this input and if he wants something made to order for him, do it himself.  I don't mind requests but being given constant "suggestions" is irritating.

My BPD mother is a good model for how unrequested suggestions sound to someone else. They are very invalidating to her. To her, they say " you are incompetent". It's ironic for someone who likes to have people do things for her, but if you suggest she do something, or make a suggestion to her, she reacts very angrily. I think we all feel this sometimes but don't react like that or take it as personally. I have a tendency to give her advice- having been her emotional caretaker - but once I understood this, I realize that it is better to not give advice unless asked.

The "employee" reference you made. My BPD mother treats me like that, and I have felt like my H's employee with benefits. Ironically, he feels like this if I ask him to do something. Asking him to do something is likely to me met with a refusal- and the message that he isn't going to let me order him around, even though I don't do that. Is this projection? My BPD mother does order everyone around so I make a point to not be like that.

Sometimes when I nicely ask my H to do something, I wish he'd just say yes rather than this kind of response. As a result, I tend to not ask him at all, unless it is absolutely necessary and I have no other option.

FF, IMHO, I'd stay out of the pantry issue. And if she asks for your help with something, and you are willing, just say yes. Less drama, the better.

[formflier]

If he had asked I would have helped.

Sure..and if my wife asks, I almost always help as well.

What would you have done if he told you to help?  Did the employer/employee thing?

I make a point of responding positively to "healthy" asks and make sure that demands/threats/tells don't get validated or fulfilled.  (basically making sure they don't work for her)

FF

[Fian]

You could respond, "Are you asking me or telling me?"  If she asks, you say sure, if she says no, you say I am not your employee.

[formflier]

You could respond, "Are you asking me or telling me?"  If she asks, you say sure, if she says no, you say I am not your employee.

I use that response (almost word for word) when there is time to get into it.  She was leaving for work and I don't engage in lengthy (or potentially lengthy) conversations.

FF

[GaGrl]

We recently retired and moved into our retirement house that my 92 year old mother has been living in for three years. There is a LOT to do to move our belongings into a house that was almost filled already. It has been frustrating. My mother can keep up an almost non-stop conversation consists g of questions that are actually suggestions for what we could do. Some are good, some are not, and some of what I want to do is perceived by her as encroaching on how she has operated for three years.

Mine you, this is my house, and I'm paying the mortgage and utilities.

It's tricky. Mom can't do anything herself but sure has ideas. She has a few BPD traits and can go waiting when triggered.

I'm learning that boundaries can really apply to areas of expertise and ownership! If it's her suite, she owns it. If it's her cat, the boundary exists somewhere between the cat's freedom to wander and my dog's desire to eat her. If it's anything to do with art on the walls outside her suite, it's mine. If it's the setup of the home office, it's my DH's.

And still we blunder sometimes.

[formflier]

Yeah...I'm not looking to "persecute" my wife.  More so I'm looking to "give her appropriate space" and at the same time not "enabling" relationship tendencies she has which have proven over time to not be helpful.  (trying to be kind here)

Perhaps she slows down and wonders why her orders (requests) aren't being followed...perhaps she asks...perhaps a real conversation happens after that.

It's not common, but it does sometimes happen.  I would think differently with some other stories on here I'm aware of when literally the pwBPD has NEVER apologized.

Plus...I have tons of other stuff to do...the project is not that critical...so letting stuff go undone (orders unfollowed) isn't that big a thing in the grand scheme of things.

So...I'll try to be patient, think things through and keep moving forward.

FF

[Notwendy]

I just experienced an example of giving a suggestion.

We were making plans to do something with the kids. The kids are older now and have their own plans, and so I sometimes need to check with them.

H: "do you know what the plan is for the weekend?"
Me: "I'm not sure what time the kids are ready- you could ask them"
H: I know I can ask them, I'm not going to ask them right now (in an angry tone)"

I never said to ask "right now" . I also didn't order him to ask the kids right now or ever, just suggested that it is better to ask them directly than to ask me, as I sometimes don't know, but that is what he heard. I used to JADE as a response to this, to clarify but that just makes it worse. I now don't respond to it.

My H hears intent in my statements that isn't there. Then reacts in an angry tone at me. It used to seem as if this came out of the blue, but now, I just have to realize that what I say isn't always received the same way. It's crazy making at times. I realize that I tend to speak less to him now because of it. I don't know how to change it- I can't change how someone thinks. It's a barrier of communication.

This is another reason I didn't intervene with the baking. I saw the mistake. Since it wasn't a major situation- no harm done with messing a recipe, I let it go. It would have been perceived as an attack. I only make suggestions for situations that are important to me enough to deal with this. 

[Cat Familiar]

How is the pantry? I would imagine if she's filled it, the gaps on the shelves and the issue about the sheetrock being painted prior to being textured, isn't as obvious if the shelves are laden with supplies.

After my pantry was built, the painters somehow missed painting some areas and it really irritated me. I planned on painting it later, but then I filled the pantry and later hasn't arrived yet.   

[Red5]

After my pantry was built, the painters somehow missed painting some areas and it really irritated me. I planned on painting it later, but then I filled the pantry and later hasn't arrived yet.  

Ok, my sugar is a little "high" today…

So its time to pick on Formflier a little…

So Formflier served in the most powerful Navy on the face of the planet!… he was a Naval Aviator, he flew one of the most challenging Grumman type model series aircraft, a stick and rudder man he was, and still is : )

So Formflier has a lot of 'sea time' on his DD-214… many months, years spent "underway"… I too have a few years (2+) of 'sea time' on my DD-214…

So let me share something with all of ya'll out there about living on an aircraft carrier at sea, and underway for months on end… if there is one thing the Navy loves to do, its to "paint"… I'm telling you, sailors will scrape the rust off, and apply a good coat of paint right quick like… as in non-stop!

My last cruise on the worlds first and finest nuclear powered aircraft carrier, I tell you, them sailors were painting the interior of that ship nonstop for nine months… seems everytime one of us Marines leaned up against a bulkhead (wall) while standing in line somewhere deep down in the ship, we would get wet paint on our flight deck jersey… mine was "red"  : )

And when we were in some foreign port, swinging on our anchor chain… there was always the duty section over the side, on a trapeze, scraping off the rust, and painting the sides of the ship gray again…

Paint Paint Paint !… of course AFTER the rust was scraped off, beaten off, and "needle gunned" off…

These "Ship-Alt" plans of Mrs. FF there in the ships galley… (ships alternation plans)… maybe Formflier has a little cptsd about anything "paint" triggering… I know I do still right to this very day!

I've also come to literally hate the smell of "caulk"… which you must do, and as well putty too, before you paint…

I've also lots of painting to complete myself, at my FOB (forward operating base)… "paint the floor trim, the bead-board & chair-rail, the ceiling trim, the new door frames"… on and on and on… owning a home, is like being on, living onboard ship, there is always something to fix, to ref-fit, to overhaul, and to PAINT!

Hang in there Formflier… we all love you Brother  

P.S.
One more thing to share… ALL US Navy aircraft carriers ALL smell the exact same… its a collection of smells really, all at once… go up any gangway, and as soon as you cross the quarterdeck, and the hanger bay, that unique smell of carrier aviation will hit you right in your "smacker"!

What is it you ask, well I will tell you... its the smell of  Jet Fuel/Oil/Grease - Garbage - Cooking Food/& two day old Coffee - '& poop' -… and wait for it… and PAINT !

… all at once, at the same time, and for 24/7… don't matter in port or out ot sea… its always there… like an "old friend" you can count on to be there for you : )

Go on any aircraft carrier, and that smell will be there… I guarantee it!

Red5 out~>

[formflier]

I'll handle these in reverse order.

The smell of an aircraft carrier.  It came to pass that the last half of my Navy career was "expeditionary" vice on an aircraft carrier.  Expeditionary means in remote strip in foreign country...and some not so remote strips. 

Anyway...hadn't been on a carrier for a while.  I happened to be back in a Navy port and got a chance to go aboard an carrier.  When I walked into the hanger deck the "memories" triggered by the smell on the hanger deck where overpowering.  I kid you not...I was "flooded" with memories that were "triggered" by the smell of paint, nonskid, jet fuel, hydraulics, sea, etc etc...all mixed together.  It's a very unique smell.

Plus...to add to what Red was talking about "Corrosion Control" (painting) is a massive effort for metal airplanes around saltwater. 

Plus...if you guys remember real estate, house flipping, rentals is a part of my side business.  I can't count the number of houses I've painted and/or hired painted.  So..I know a good paint job, decent paint job, and slopping color on the wall.

Anyway..the pantry is OK.  Still full of tools laying about on the floor.

The tankless water heater is now working as advertised.  It's controlled by wifi and our first module was bad.  I also had to add another check valve to prevent cold water from backin up the re-circulation line and making our hot water...luke warm.  I suppose the pressures are really different. 

Yes the shelves are now mostly full.  Not sure if she will every declare it done...organized or whatever. 

FF

[Red5]

"Expeditionary means remote strip in foreign country"...  

…the "memories" triggered by the smell, I kid you not...I was "flooded" with memories that were "triggered" by the smell, It's a very unique smell.

"Expeditionary"… now you got me remembering those old "GP" tents (general purpose) out in the desert, we used to live in… like out in Twenty-Nine Palms… among "other" places : )

Another series of quite unique and as well triggering smell(s).

Ah' yes… good ole' Camp Wilson, and the AM2 mat airfield that lays next to it, its all still there, and still in use to this very day… a "summer camp" of sorts  

We almost got a tankless hot water heater system a few years ago… but we got a "smart tank" instead… so far so good... it beeps, and has lights that "light up", a few buttons and indicators on the outside… I'm always "messing" with it, and tweaking its performance … being on well water was why we didn't go with the tankless as I remember…

A lesson I learned, always use brand new "flux" when you solder the copper pipes together… or you;ll have leaks to chase and fix .

P.S. They ran out of palm trees out in Camp Wilson 29P a very long long time ago…

Red5