ExBPD is feeling very entitled to custody matters

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hello All,
As I attempt to discuss custody matters with the exBPD instead of going to court I found she to be very entitled to what she wants.  She is unwilling to give me anymore time and telling me how the co parenting counselor will rule in her favor, etc.  She is constantly telling me how my son doesn't want to come see me, etc and its not in the best interest for him.  Has anyone ever had any similar situations.

[Newyoungfather]

Hello All,
As I attempt to discuss custody matters with the exBPD instead of going to court I found she to be very entitled to what she wants.  She is unwilling to give me anymore time and telling me how the co parenting counselor will rule in her favor, etc.  She is constantly telling me how my son doesn't want to come see me, etc and its not in the best interest for him.  Has anyone ever had any similar situations.

[mart555]

Yep.  Welcome to the world of negotiating with a BPD.  Something I read on this forum: "BPD parents think that they are a great parent".  Chances are she blames you for everything that happened.    In a lot of cases they have some narcissistic traits so really feel entitled... it feels like negotiating with a terrorist.    I'm currently going through this mess myself.  Chances are there is some parental alienation going on as well...   

Document everything, make sure to not lose access to the kids, and she can say whatever she wants but it doesn't mean that it's true.  They seem to make up a lot of stories in their head and believe they happened. 

[worriedStepmom]

she can say whatever she wants but it doesn't mean that it's true.  They seem to make up a lot of stories in their head and believe they happened. 

Yup.  My H's xW fully believes that she will regain custody this summer.  She thinks that as soon as SD turns 12, SD will run to the judge and announce that she wants to live with mom instead of dad, and then everything will magically change.  This is pure fantasy.   

She's also entitled - yesterday she insisted that H give up some of his time this summer because she had been so looking forward to spending a lot of time with SD.  (He declined.)

You've got your son in therapy.  After a few months of that, hopefully the therapist will see what is going on.  That would be great evidence for you in a custody battle.    Document everything, and consult your lawyer for information on what kinds of evidence the L would like to see before filing for a modification.

[livednlearned]

As I attempt to discuss custody matters with the exBPD instead of going to court I found she to be very entitled to what she wants. 

What is she asking for?

How are you communicating with her?

Blamers don't tend to be good at negotiation or compromise because both will feel like giving up control. When we try to enter into negotiation, I think many of us lose sight of the mental illness in play and its effect.

[Newyoungfather]

@LivedNLearned: I asked to have more custodial time which means more overnights.  I have 50/50 legal custody from the start but I pay child support as if I don't have my son at.  I have my son for majority of the time, full days when I have him overnights.  For instance I pick him up Tuesday morning and drop him off Friday night, I don't use daycare so hes with me majority of the time.  I asked to get 50/50 custody and she told me its not in the best interest of the child.  I communicate everything over a secured court approved family program.
I want to resolve issues out of court because of the time and money associated with it but she just wants to win win win and its sad.  I don't think she realizes I have soo many nasty emails and items that I will use against her in court.  I read splitting and judging by her behavior I don't want to go to court and point out her flaws.  I told my L one time to stop being unnecessarily aggressive to her and focus on solutions as the lawyer only has to deal with her in court and I have to deal with the repercussions of other people pointing out her flaws in the open.  Usually it will takes months for her to settle down after a court date.

[ForeverDad]

Before my separation and subsequent divorce my then-spouse would shout during her rants and rages that she'd disappear and I'd never see my toddler again.

We had two temp orders.  The first was during the time we each had protective cases pending against the other.  It was a typical "dad gets alternate weekends" temp order.  When those lapsed it was three months without any order.  She demanded I agree to supervised visitation.  I declined and suggested we continue with what the court had ordered.  She walked out and I didn't see my son, or even talk to him, for three months.

During that time I felt cornered into filing for divorce as my only alternative but waiting for a court hearing took about 6-7 weeks.  The magistrate, same one from before, verified from her that she'd blocked all father-child contact and stated, "I'll fix that."  Well, all he did was make the divorce temp order, same as before.  No consequences for her and no make-up time for me.  Over the next few years I gradually got more parental authority.  First, equal time in shared parenting.  Then Legal Guardian.  Then majority time during the school year.

One of the observations I've made is that family/domestic court is usually (1) reluctant to shut out either parent and (2) reluctant to make major changes to fix problems and instead preferring to make incremental changes.

So to walk into court for temp orders it is good for you to bring enough documentation of stbEx's poor parenting behaviors, failing cooperation and that you are stepping forward to be an involved father.  You want to best (or least unfavorable) temp order as possible.

In your case you actually get majority time but she wants an order that ignores the facts and leans in her favor.  Frankly, court is used to doing that, favoring mothers, so your task is not to convince her but to convince the court.  (And sharing with her your strategies for more parenting is a recipe for self-sabotage.)

[Newyoungfather]

@ForeverDad, you mentioned an important topic that I recently discussed with my attorney.  In the state that I live in a lot of the older judges tend to favor the mother by default, however I am thankful that the judge I have takes time to listen to the facts of the case, my judge is in her late 50's but she will listen to both sides.  I have filed 4 custody modifications so far with each one gaining more and more time.  Getting 50/50 custody is such a huge battle for me and once I get there I will most likely have to go back for primary custody, its a money sucking process and exBPD hates when I get more time.

[mart555]

Getting 50/50 custody is such a huge battle for me and once I get there I will most likely have to go back for primary custody, its a money sucking process and exBPD hates when I get more time.

How bad of a mom is she with the kids?  You may not be able to get more than 50-50 if she is reasonable

[Newyoungfather]

Well...exBPD sends me nasty emails.  She fabricated a completed false allegation of abuse and will shortly be found guilty on prejury charges.  There is a few cases of child alienation but that will be hard to prove them.  I also have numerous emails of how mother does not want my son to be around me. 

[mart555]

Well...exBPD sends me nasty emails.  She fabricated a completed false allegation of abuse and will shortly be found guilty on prejury charges.  There is a few cases of child alienation but that will be hard to prove them.  I also have numerous emails of how mother does not want my son to be around me. 

But they'll see this as having not much of an impact on the kid besides alienation...   so could still leave it at 50-50. 

[Newyoungfather]

The only other thing that I can say that would relate to my son is that I am personally available to watch him because she works a lot.  Mart555 what state do you live in, I live in PA.  I was also never married.

[ForeverDad]

It has been commented that one of the reasons men usually walk out with alternate weekends is that they don't try to step forward and go against the social perceptions that "mothers parent and fathers pay".  Or "mother is always the better parent to raise the kids".

The solution for us is that to gain anything, we have to try both hard and smart with time-tested strategies.  Sometimes the things we think are huge issues get pooh-poohed by the courts.  Ex attacked you?  Ex ranted and raged at you?  Ex wasted money?  Ho-hum.  On the other hand, ex blocked parenting, ex raged at the kids, etc?  Things that impact the children are more likely to get the courts to sit up and take notice.

I'm not saying don't report DV-like behaviors, just realize that you have to list the more actionable incidents (impacting the children) first.

[mart555]

The only other thing that I can say that would relate to my son is that I am personally available to watch him because she works a lot.  Mart555 what state do you live in, I live in PA.  I was also never married.

Ontario, Canada.   Lots of horror stories up here with regards to custody being 50-50 almost no matter what.  It takes a lot to deviate from this. 

[zachira]

"Divorce Poison" is a must read for any parent concerned about how the other parent is turning their child against them.

[Newyoungfather]

One of the other things that saves me during the court process is that PA has 16 factors of custody that a judge must follow when determining custody, it ranges from age of child to location of residences to abuse to drugs.  There is also a provision for false allegations of abuse.

[Newyoungfather]

@Zachira, I recently picked that book up and can't wait to start reading it.  I find that the courts will only do so much when it comes to child alienation, the rest is to the parent emotionally protecting the child.

[zachira]

I am so glad that you will be reading "Divorce Poison". I am currently reading it. I have a wonderful close friend who lost her children to her ex husband and his wife who could not have children. The children were brainwashed by the two of them and my friend has not seen her children who are now adults in many years. "Divorce Poision" talks about how fast a child can be turned against the other parent and there is no such thing as being too proactive when protecting your relationship with your child.

[worriedStepmom]

In most states, there is still the assumption that infants should spend more time with the mom and gradually get time with the father as the child ages.  And then, at age 3, the long-term schedule gets put in place.

So I'm not surprised that you've steadily managed to get more time, as your son has grown.  You are proving to this judge over time that you are an involved father and that you have your child's best interests at heart.

Your ex is going to give you evidence that will enable you to continue to chip away at her custodial time.  She can't help herself, and she's escalating as you are "winning". 

You're doing the right thing for your son.

[Newyoungfather]

@Worriedstepmom: I 100% agree with you, going into the last custody battle my attorney and I knew that exBPD just wanted the money that comes with custody, with that being said we got the judge to put in a provision that if shes unavailable to watch my son I have first right.  Our plan worked, we knew the judge wasn't going to go for more overnights but as a biological parent the judge agreed that I should have first right if she's not available, exBPD didn't like this because we caught her up.  My son only goes over to her house to sleep and then right back to mine in the morning.  If its money or my son I would give away my keys to my house and cars any day just to be with him.

[kells76]

 

 

 

 

If its money or my son I would give away my keys to my house and cars any day just to be with him.

courts will only do so much when it comes to child alienation, the rest is to the parent emotionally protecting the child.

So proud of your great attitude NYF!

You're keeping your eyes on the prize with your kid-focused mindset. Just wanted to say good job!

[MeandThee29]

Blamers don't tend to be good at negotiation or compromise because both will feel like giving up control. When we try to enter into negotiation, I think many of us lose sight of the mental illness in play and its effect.

This is important. It was a major insight when I realized that the normal give-and-take of relationships was going to be skewed no matter what I did.

My lawyer once commented that one-on-one negotiations are tough enough in divorce as it is, and then you bring in disordered thinking, and it's really difficult. My version of fair is negotiated somewhere near the middle. Their version is a total win. There may be some play when it comes to the law, but the gray areas require that they win if it's important to them.

[livednlearned]

Hello All,
As I attempt to discuss custody matters with the exBPD instead of going to court I found she to be very entitled to what she wants.  ...  Has anyone ever had any similar situations.

That's pretty much everything that's been written on these boards  

Paying for lawyers is painful.

I had to think of it like my child was ill and the money was essential to keep him safe and healthy.

It didn't change the fact I was bleeding money. It did help put things into perspective in a way that lessened the agony of accruing legal debt.

Ask for more than what you are going for (within reason). That way she gets to see you lose something, without realizing that you were going for less than what you asked for anyway. You get to win quietly.

It's awful that we have to think in terms of winning/losing, that courts are adversarial by nature.