Thanksgiving Down

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hey all,

I haven't posted in just shy of a week or so. I just wanted to process here and update again.
I think I have experienced the closest thing to peace as of late. To recap, I was having an anxiety attack about filling in my siblings about continued nc with mom over the holidays.

I thought I had to call them each, or send texts, or just send a generic group text. I thought this was asserting my boundary, but I realized that I am trying to break the cycle of triangulation.

The boundary is that I do not talk to my siblings about my relationship with my mom. And I have to give credit where it is due. They have not asked in about 3-4 months. I just thought they were going to be gearing up for it because of Tday and Xmas.

Something FF, said helped tremendously. "Leave them out of it."  Best to not let people know the status of your relationship with another unless they are directly involved in helping you keep your boundary.

When you are raised by someone with BPD, this concept is unheard of. BPD people need the triangle to have some kind of control as leverage. To try to keep the status quo "of whats always been.

So to catch you all up to speed, I did not have those conversations with any sibling. ( I have three) I just went to my Dad's Thanksgiving and stayed present with everyone. I made small talk conversations, played with my daughter, and talked with my uncles who are not involved at all in the drama.  I'm grateful for what the time together was.


My oldest brother  has BPD traits, and we have had LC for a while now. I was able to be around him yesterday.
However, I found myself worried about my brother's perception of me. Does he think I am "better than"? Does he think I am cold, callous, and selfish.?" A fake?
I am aware that thinking this way is irrational, but it's so hard to break patterns of thought that stem from being raised by a mother with BPD.

I think nothing significant will change by Christmas. My boundary will be firm.


 My daughter's first birthday is Feb 23. I have anxiety around that one already, but I will do my best to take all of this a second at a time. When the guilt creeps in and the intense grief that  she has missed this first year, I become teary eyed and numb.I will say the feeling is fleeting, but I cry by myself now and again.
One thing I am learning is that my mom is 100% responsible for her half of our relationship. I went NC  because of her behavior that scared me. I did not choose to keep her from her granddaughter. She made that choice with the things I could not tolerate.

Lastly, I have not yet talked to my therapist about my husband's strong viewpoint on staying NC permanently.

His feelings only, he wants to protect our daughter and does not want the added stress of navigating how my mom makes me feel and behave.
I am usually short with him or mean if I do not feel he adequately understands my turmoil and makes it better. Does not seem fair to him at all. I see that.

My last apt of the year is tomorrow.
 
Big sigh! 

_Imatter33




I

[Imatter33]

Hey all,

I haven't posted in just shy of a week or so. I just wanted to process here and update again.
I think I have experienced the closest thing to peace as of late. To recap, I was having an anxiety attack about filling in my siblings about continued nc with mom over the holidays.

I thought I had to call them each, or send texts, or just send a generic group text. I thought this was asserting my boundary, but I realized that I am trying to break the cycle of triangulation.

The boundary is that I do not talk to my siblings about my relationship with my mom. And I have to give credit where it is due. They have not asked in about 3-4 months. I just thought they were going to be gearing up for it because of Tday and Xmas.

Something FF, said helped tremendously. "Leave them out of it."  Best to not let people know the status of your relationship with another unless they are directly involved in helping you keep your boundary.

When you are raised by someone with BPD, this concept is unheard of. BPD people need the triangle to have some kind of control as leverage. To try to keep the status quo "of whats always been.

So to catch you all up to speed, I did not have those conversations with any sibling. ( I have three) I just went to my Dad's Thanksgiving and stayed present with everyone. I made small talk conversations, played with my daughter, and talked with my uncles who are not involved at all in the drama.  I'm grateful for what the time together was.


My oldest brother  has BPD traits, and we have had LC for a while now. I was able to be around him yesterday.
However, I found myself worried about my brother's perception of me. Does he think I am "better than"? Does he think I am cold, callous, and selfish.?" A fake?
I am aware that thinking this way is irrational, but it's so hard to break patterns of thought that stem from being raised by a mother with BPD.

I think nothing significant will change by Christmas. My boundary will be firm.


 My daughter's first birthday is Feb 23. I have anxiety around that one already, but I will do my best to take all of this a second at a time. When the guilt creeps in and the intense grief that  she has missed this first year, I become teary eyed and numb.I will say the feeling is fleeting, but I cry by myself now and again.
One thing I am learning is that my mom is 100% responsible for her half of our relationship. I went NC  because of her behavior that scared me. I did not choose to keep her from her granddaughter. She made that choice with the things I could not tolerate.

Lastly, I have not yet talked to my therapist about my husband's strong viewpoint on staying NC permanently.

His feelings only, he wants to protect our daughter and does not want the added stress of navigating how my mom makes me feel and behave.
I am usually short with him or mean if I do not feel he adequately understands my turmoil and makes it better. Does not seem fair to him at all. I see that.

My last apt of the year is tomorrow.
 
Big sigh! 

_Imatter33




I

[pursuingJoy]

Imatter33, thanks for the update. Sounds like you had a Thanksgiving full of important and groundbreaking realizations! So happy for you. What you're doing may feel scary and unsettling but I hope you enjoy the freedom that comes with it!

Your insights really helped me better understand a few important things.

When you are raised by someone with BPD, this concept is unheard of. BPD people need the triangle to have some kind of control as leverage. To try to keep the status quo "of whats always been.

This helps me understand why my husband is incapable of holding information back from his BPD mom. He feels a genuine desire to tell her everything that is driven by a combination of desire, need for connection, compulsion, and guilt.

I am usually short with him or mean if I do not feel he adequately understands my turmoil and makes it better. Does not seem fair to him at all. I see that.

My husband feels this way too, though he doesn't understand that his perception is a little skewed and his expectation that I fix it, unreasonable. You're doing such a great job with this hard work.

One holiday down, and it was a success. Keep it up, Imatter!

pj

[Imatter33]

PJ,

I am so glad to know that I can help (yourself and others) as well as receive help from the bpdfamily.

My marriage is my safest relationship and closest, it makes all the sense in the world that I would have expectations that are unrealistic, (due to being raised by someone who set this as a precedent.)  I am hopeful we will learn to communicate well and reframe the expectations so that my marriage will be lifelong. I hope I hope!

So I am really happy that I decided to post today because I have already processed the good from yesterday...alas.

A half hour ago I get this from ubpd brother (on the day after a get together)
The message reads:
"If I could have one wish and could either have my girlfriend  back or let Mom see the baby I would let Mom see the baby that's how  up this is to me. I don't even know who you are anymore."



Sigh.
This is hard hard hard work.
 
Do I retort to the message with the advice given here by Harri?
End the conversation, say no, say "I know this is difficult and I am sorry it upsets you.  I have made my decision and it is not open for discussion"  He gets to be him with his needs, opinions and emotions and you get to have your own.  It takes practice and a lot of work with mindfulness to get to this point but it can be done.

It still respects the boundary of not discussing mom, but it allows me to stand up to the bullying. What do others think? I think i know the answer...

[pursuingJoy]

I think you know the answer too, I just want to affirm that you're making an excellent choice. It is a compassionate, firm response. Repeat as needed and remember your boundary! 

I know it's hard work. I hope it helps to hear stories that you're not alone, and you're doing better than many people in the same situation. I love the grace you extend yourself by saying it's understandable that you'd have unrealistic expectations considering your upbringing. 

You're doing great, Imatter.

[Imatter33]

Sent the response.
Bracing for impact.
I am safe. I am safe. All he can do is huff and puff.

[pursuingJoy]

You are safe, Imatter!  Brace for impact, plan how you want to respond, and keep us posted. We are here.

[Imatter33]

PJ,
I didn't expect a response so quickly. 

Thank you for your validation and hand holding today. I am proud of myself but I feel incredibly sad inside. Ugghh.

Still "happy" with what step I took today though, and just in time for counseling tomorrow.

I need some flipping ice cream.

[Imatter33]

Response came 2 min after I hit send.
 I stated that I was sorry he was upset but that it was  my decision not up for discussion.
He replies, So have I
Not like your losing much anyway best of luck to you and YOUR family. I honestly love you but I will not be further party to this.

I wanted to state that I love him too right away but withheld. I'm very cautious that an "I love you too" will be used as triggering further rage.
My response I gave no way implicates I am mad at him anyway.
Love used as a manipulation is without a doubt the hardest and sickest part of BPD.

Honestly counting my blessings. He went fairly easy on me.

He wants "no part" but he's playing his part in the triangle like a fiddle.
How can I be so so proud of everything I've done thus far, but feel like I am on the cusp of a huge Ugly cry?

[pursuingJoy]

It's ok to cry friend. That would be a normal response considering what you're going through. This is tough stuff.

You're doing great and I'm proud of you too!

[Harri]

It is okay to cry.  And yes, this is really hard stuff.     I swear managing our own reactions to changing things and setting boundaries is harder than dealing with the responses from our family sometimes.

He replies, So have I   Not like your losing much anyway best of luck to you and YOUR family. I honestly love you but I will not be further party to this.

  Is the capitalization of the word your from him or did you do that?

I would let this pass.  Him saying it is not like you are losing much is a rabbit hole that you could get lost in trying to convince him of how difficult this is for you.  Him saying he loves you seems factual to me and I would take it at face value.  Same with him saying he won't be a party to this.  Time will tell on that part right?

I think you did well.  with the response and with Thanksgiving with your other family members. 

Please keep us posted.  I will interested to hear what your T has to say too.  I think taking time to get some healing under your belt and learning to manage your own distress is what is most important as that is/can affect your marriage and even you ability to be present with your baby. 

 

[Imatter33]

It is okay to cry.  And yes, this is really hard stuff.     I swear managing our own reactions to changing things and setting boundaries is harder than dealing with the responses from our family sometimes.

OH man! you said it...

 

Is the capitalization of the word your from him or did you do that?

He capitalized YOUR.

I would let this pass.

My thoughts exactly, nice to get it confirmed.

  Him saying it is not like you are losing much is a rabbit hole that you could get lost in trying to convince him of how difficult this is for you.  Him saying he loves you seems factual to me and I would take it at face value.  Same with him saying he won't be a party to this.  Time will tell on that part right?

I think you did well.  with the response and with Thanksgiving with your other family members.

THANK YOU HARRI 

I read this response at 5:30 am after I fed the baby. Couldn't fall back asleep, partly from all the great validation and help I am getting here, and partly because its hard to turn this part of your brain off around this time of year especially.

Appreciate you all more than you know.

[Imatter33]

It is okay to cry.  And yes, this is really hard stuff.    I swear managing our own reactions to changing things and setting boundaries is harder than dealing with the responses from our family sometimes.

I think taking time to get some healing under your belt and learning to manage your own distress is what is most important as that is/can affect your marriage and even you ability to be present with your baby.  

 

So wise, I keep coming back to that Harri.

Recap,
My Husband had a big reaction to the thought of me having contact with my mom again. Even though no time frame is even being discussed right now. I believe that  he saw my distress,  affect change, dissociation and anxiety about dealing with my siblings ...and all his repressed anger came out in a flood. His repressed (valid) feelings about it all. I'll call it my dysfunctional family drama mess, that he has been trying to help me carry/figure out for years.

SO he bluntly said 'I don't know what you want to do, but I never want to deal with your mom again, because it will come back on me, and she can't see her granddaughter either!

I talked to my Therapist. She helped me understand he wants to protect his castle. He wants to protect me and my baby. Anger coming from him is a common emotion that (men) especially have. He wasn't trying to invalidate what I have been doing in counseling or not be there for me. He was just feeling his feelings.

More came of the discussion. If I could have my husband magically on board with a relationship what actually happens now. I want him on board because I really do not desire a relationship with my mom that does not include my daughter and husband taking part.

So... I have my boundaries in mind. HURRAY. I've worked hard on them. A+.
My Therapist then asked if my mom was capable of respecting these boundaries consistently and long term.
I answered from my gut. No. I don't think so.

( I could state them here but feel they are personal and I would go into length about each) ...

I think my Husband wants to throw in the towel permanently to keep me and our daughter  safe. If he could tell me what to do, he would say "I don't want you to "try out" these new  boundaries, good as they are I don't think they will work." (Again, he has not said it, but my therapist and I think this is what is underneath the anger.)

And I cannot disagree. I think he is trying to prevent me from "breaking up" with mom again, in the event that she disrespects boundaries. He wants to avoid  From the incredible strain that will exist on our entire family of 3 even if i go from NC to LC.

So from my side of things. I am taking Harri's advice. I am hearing and dealing with everyone's reactions but my own. And I need time to have my reaction.

But being painfully honest right now. My life has been better without my mom in it.


Societal guilt and intense grief push me towards her.
I have not needed my mom for anything for close to 10 months. I haven't needed a phone call, a check in, a coffee date, etc. I haven't had a blow up, a rage text, a crying fit of hysteria. A financial bail out, a threat, a fear of her disapproval and FOG.  And it has been freedom like I have never felt. (Even though I am dealing with disapproving family..they are kittens next to her)
"You have a mother that you don't let see her only grandchild? Oh for shame, plays over and over in my head." (Maybe even from some members of this board will think I am horrible for not going lc)
Guilt that "everyone"  thinks i've labeled my mom as a horrible person.
Therapist said, "not horrible. unhealthy."
I am grieving. grieving.

So the last thought therapist left me with...How would I get closure?
Does this come from doing nothing different than now?
Sending a letter?

[Harri]

This thread has been locked and the conversation continues here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=341451.new#new

Thank you.