Tough Pills to Swallow

[Jerome Finn]

What do you do when the BPD in your life is changing reality?  There was something she said recently that was really hard to take.  Do I just suck it up and put it down to her illness or do I correct the fantasy?  Sucking it up is sometimes ok and often no big deal but every once in a while it is a very hard pill to swallow.

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[Harri]

I think my response would depend on what is said.  Regardless, if she believes something is true, it is true *for her*.  I am not sure trying to change her mind will work.

I am answering in very general terms as it is hard without knowing what she said.  Is what she said hurtful or dangerous to you or others?  That is one thing.  There are too many open possibilities when I think about it.

Can you narrow it down for us?

[Jerome Finn]

She cheated on me 4 years ago and never told me who it was with.  She did tell me that she would tell me 'some day'.  I let it slide for 4 years and finally got up the courage to tell her that it bothers me that she never told me and that I hoped that one day she would tell me so that information would no longer be between us.

In response to that she said she felt 'unsafe' which is why she wouldn’t tell me in the first place.  She didn't remember saying that  she would tell me 'one day' and now says she will never tell me and was really upset that I brought it up again (first time in 4 years)

So the part that is hard to take (other than the fact that she won't tell me the 'who') is that she said when I had my secrets exposed a few years before her cheating (think strip clubs and porn, not cheating) she didn't ask me every single detail.  In reality she DID ask me every single detail.  For at least two months she would ask and ask and ask every single night  demanding every single detail including waking me up in the middle of the night to ask.  She wanted so much detail I was forced to make things up because I forgot all the details she wanted - it was over a long period of time.

It just really bugs me that she actually thinks that.  She also told a lot of her friends because she needed support - some of my friends too so, yeah.  She DID want every detail.  So do I turn to her and say, "Are you freaking kidding me?" or do I just smile and say, "Yup I guess you're right."  I did the latter.

Another piece of info is that I really do know who she cheated on me with but I can't divulge how I figured it out - she has no idea how I know.  I just wanted her to finally have to say it.

[Jerome Finn]

That was supposed to say, "She has no idea that I know", not "She has no idea how I know."

[Harri]

Hi.  Thanks for the info, it helps narrow things down. 

It just really bugs me that she actually thinks that.  She also told a lot of her friends because she needed support - some of my friends too so, yeah.  She DID want every detail.  So do I turn to her and say, "Are you freaking kidding me?" or do I just smile and say, "Yup I guess you're right."  I did the latter.

How about "Okay, I have a different memory of how things went" or even just "okay" and leave it be.   How important is this to you?  I am not asking that in a judging way, just trying to get you to dig down.  Would you be okay leaving it be with a simple 'okay' accepting that you know different? 

As for your wanting her to name the person she cheated with, what is going on with you that it is an issue after 4 years and after figuring out who it was?   Is this something you had resolved within yourself before and come to a place of peace with or have you ben struggling with it?

Sorry for all the questions.  The fact is I do not have answers for you, just trying to help you think things through.

[Turkish]

Another piece of info is that I really do know who she cheated on me with but I can't divulge how I figured it out - she has no idea how I know.  I just wanted her to finally have to say it.

So you want validation from her though you have validation by knowledge. Why not tell her rather than trying to "trap" her? I'm not advocating this, but rather trying to understand your goal?

I was cheated on, it hurts, I know, but what do you think is the likely outcome from getting her to admit it,  or telling her that you know? 

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi. I can understand how hurtful it is to be cheated on. It has happened to me, too, in the past.

BPD is a shame-based disorder. The person who suffers from it has extreme feelings of toxic shame that they cannot cope with in a healthy manner and they use defense mechanisms to avoid it. Cornering someone with bpd and trying to get them to admit to something that brings a lot of shame to them (even if it was extremely hurtful to you) is not likely to go well.

Do you think that your relationship will be at all improved if you succeed in getting her to admit the identity of her affair partner?

How do you see the status of the relationship going forward if she does not admit it?

[fawn]

I think most of the time correction makes it worse.

My partner yesterday told me that I was toxic, that I give him anxiety, all of which are him projecting on me. The projection and gas lighting used to drive me to the point I had problems with reality, but after I learnt how to identify and reject it, it is easier to cope.

They reject the idea of them having these traits, so they project it onto others, and it becomes their reality. Trying to correct it often makes it worse as it is like trying to get them to take back something they are trying to get rid of, and it may trigger more anger or splitting.

[Jerome Finn]

  Would you be okay leaving it be with a simple 'okay' accepting that you know different? 

When she found out my stuff she raked me over the coals for months.  She made me get an STD test even though I hadn't been with anyone else.  She sent me to a counsellor and we went to couples counselling.  She told a lot of her friends and some of mine.  I even ended up telling my parents which sucked.  Talk talk talk talk talk talk for months and very little sleep.  I felt horrible the whole time.

We have talked about her cheating a total of 5 times in four years.  No STD test.  No individual counselling for either of us, no couples counselling and I was 'allowed' to tell one friend who she approved of.  She told 2 close friends of her choosing and didn’t tell either of our parents.

I guess I have a lot of anger because I feel like a second class citizen in our house as this one sided stuff happens often.  Yes.  I can leave it be. And then again on the next one and the next one and the next one.  It's not so much this one time (although this one certainly hit a nerve), it's just that over the years it just chips away at you and then finally you just hit a point where you don't want to just suck another one up.  I was just wondering if I am supposed to be correcting her or if I should just leave her to her delusions.  Looks like it's the latter.  So you think she REALLY REALLY believes this deep down or does she know the truth way deep down?  I just find it so hard to believe she really doesn't know the truth after living it.

As for your wanting her to name the person she cheated with, what is going on with you that it is an issue after 4 years and after figuring out who it was?   Is this something you had resolved within yourself before and come to a place of peace with or have you ben struggling with it?

I suppose I figured that even though I knew the 'who', it was still a major wall between us since it is such a HUGE secret for her to think she is keeping from me, plus if she told me I wouldn't have to pretend I don't know.  How can she be comfortable knowing that it bothers me?  There is NO WAY this would fly if it were the other way around.  She admitted to that at the time.  I guess it feels like she can't possibly love me if she knows it will give me relief (yes, I know I already know but she doesn't know that) but denies me that.  I would take a bullet for her but it seems she wouldn't do the same for me.   I figured if she could tell me who it was then that secret (as far as she knows) would be out in the open and we could be closer again without it as a wall between us.  I have to admit though that I am still struggling with the fact she did it and I have not been able to get past it and I'm not sure I ever will.  I do feel a bit better after asking her though because I now feel like if it doesn't end up working out then it will be her fault, not mine as I have done my part by telling her that it bothers me.

Why not tell her rather than trying to "trap" her?

To be clear she told me she cheated but not who it was with - it sounded by your comment that you might think she doesn't know I know she cheated.  She does, just not who.  Regarding the quoted question,  I have always been her 'safe' person - her 'rock', and when she found out some of the stuff I was doing 2 years before she cheated she was completely lost without her 'safe' person for that time.  She spiraled into depression and was 'lost' for a while.  The guy she cheated with became her new safe person for a while which I believe is why she can't tell me who it was.  She doesn't want her backup safe person to be exposed because then she might not have one again somehow.  If I just come out and tell her that I know who it is then I think she will spin out of control and sink into depression again and I can't let that happen as we have kids and I need her to be functional for them.  So I'm not trying to 'trap' her but rather trying not to tip over the boat if you will.   I thought after four years she might be ready to tell me without her spinning out of control to help us (me) get past things, but now I can see that the likely outcome of forcing her to tell will not be something good.  To be fair there is also an anger part of me wanting her to say it since I was raked over the coals and it feels like she got off 'scott free'.  If she has to admit who it was then it will feel more fair.  Obviously this is something I need to work on as this is clearly not a good reason - just trying to be honest while I explore here.

what do you think is the likely outcome from getting her to admit it,  or telling her that you know? 

I thought the outcome might be good before I recently asked again but I don't think so any more.