I just don’t know

[UBPDHelp]

So I have been married for 25+ years with 4 kids. 2 are almost self sufficient (probably 1-2 years) and the other 2 are still young.

My H is distinctly undiagnosed (he detests therapy) but I am completely confident he has BPD sprinkled with a hefty dose of narcissism.

I think he masked it for a long time and I was immensely naive and ended up explaining when everything became my fault.

The pressure of having 4 kids has seemed to push him to the trigger point. He hates his job (honest to goodness, he takes credit for everything good that happens and blames his partner whenever anything “bad” happens).  He is definitely high functioning but he can’t handle any blame. I’ve only heard him say “it’s my fault” like 2x and when it has been completely inconsequential.

He does weird things like if he gets sick, he goes through everyone in the family to see who was sick first and made him sick. And if he gets sick and no one at home has been sick, he blames it on someone at work. I mean, everyone gets if from someone, but just as long as it’s not his fault. There is so much more to this but it is not the biggest issue (not even close!).

So he is super jealous of absolutely nothing. I’m 50 and overweight (emotional eater extraordinaire) and just generally exhausted.

We met in college when I was dating someone else (for about 3 years). He knew this other person vaguely (not friends or even same circle, but knew of him).  When we broke up, a few months later, my H and I started dating. We go along and he has some strange outbursts that I chalked up to stress, etc., but all fairly normal.

About 10 years into the marriage he starts ranting about how vile I am b/c I slept with my previous boyfriend (15 years earlier after dating 3 years). My mother passed away prior to our marriage but in year 15, he tells me he only married me b/c he felt sorry for me.

He never takes these things back but just comes down and acts like nothing happened. But whenever he triggers, I am an immoral slut and my parents didn’t raise me right. He will rage text me the most awful things. 

I was dumb and listened to him when family was “mistreating” me and kind of pushed my sister away. At this point I don’t really have anyone left.

Things have gotten bad the last year with him cycling through a lot. I get long rants about being a slut and ridiculous vile things. Then he turns around and is loving (really?).

We’ve talked at length after he left for 3 days and a week after my father died this year it was our anniversary (he says we’re not really married b/c I’m married to the boyfriend I slept with 30 years ago - mind you he slept with his 16yo girlfriend and how many others? Idk, he would rage if I ever asked).  Anyway, my father died a week before our anniversary, the day of our anniversary he raged about this boyfriend (idk the trigger, Facebook?). He actually called to apologize and I gave him stern warning that I was just over it all and not doing this anymore.

We talked and I put my foot down and we agreed to try to work on things.  He definitely is trippy about sex.  I started putting more time and attention into our relationship and having more intimate time. He became lovey and supportive etc.  But I also have a lot going on so if it slips a day, he becomes sullen and then totally trips into ranting. It’s exhausting.

Anyway...not sure what my question is...would welcome any insights or thoughts for the experts.

There are so many other things that have happened but the slut/sex thing has been the most recurring theme.

I’d like to go if I was in a position to take care of my kids.  I’ve been a stay at home mom without any great skills at this point, but have always had a small-medium work from home job (currently in the market).

Sometimes he says he’ll go and give me all the money and other times he says he’ll go and take my kids and tell them what a horrible person I am.

He is in a position to make it a terrible process for sure (he is a super aggressive litigator) so sometimes I think k staying where I can keep an eye on things is better. But I’m just so tired of going to bed with everything fine and waking up to being an immoral slut that doesn’t deserve this life. 

Thanks for any input/comments.

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[pursuingJoy]

UBPDhelp, this must be so overwhelming, confusing and unsettling. Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Many of us understand what it's like to be in a relationship with someone who is dysregulated. It's hard to know where to even start. I know your husband is averse to therapy, but do you go? Where do you look for support? How are the kids handling his behavior?

Please share more when you can.

pj

[Dead Man Walking]

UBPDHelp,

I am in a very similar situation but I think a bit farther down the road to understanding and coping.

My wife has done very similar things, emotional abandonment, verbal abuse, deflecting, withholding sex, raging etc. We have been together for about 11 years and I was way too naive to see and or understand her behavior when we met and for many years after. I would take all her actions very personally. She is my wife and should love and be supportive of me right? Not really. Before I started to learn about BPD I did not realize her actions had nothing to do with me personally except for the fact that I was the target.

Coping mechanism #1 - Depersonalize their behavior. pwBPD target people with those behaviors because they are trying to fill an unavailable need with in themselves. In our minds we make their actions about us because they are aimed at us. Coming to understand that she would do this to anyone she was in a relationship with and it was about her trying to meet her emotional needs and really had nothing to do with me let me start to remove my emotional connection to those behaviors. I started therapy 3 1/2 years ago and I worked very hard on fixing myself. I cant fix her but I can fix me. I came to realize that the horrible things she said to me about me were not true. Starting out my self esteem was very low and I would easily believe what she said about me. By working on my self I was able to boost my self esteem and break free from her psychological assaults.

Coping mechanism #2 - Go to your neutral corner and stay civil.  When my wife has an episode she tends withdraw, go to bed and "sleep" for long periods of time. Mind you she will poke her head out once a day to stir things up in the house then retreat back to bed when she is done. This left me, working full time, being a single parent to three children, doing all the household errands, cooking etc. for the duration of her withdraw. These times ranged from a couple days to 6 months. An interesting thing I noticed though when she did this was the house got much more peaceful when she was "not feeling good", "sleeping" etc. Those were the excuses I would make for her to everyone who asked where she was. Now when she does this I let her do it. If she does come out and we interact I keep it civil and emotionless. If she asks me a question I answer it in a calm way. If she tries to engage me and draw me into her episode I stay calm an walk away. When I started doing this I would watch her reaction. She would get very confused and keep watching me to see if I was going to react to her behavior.  I think she would do this because she did not know how to read my mental and emotional state in that moment. If she does not get the reaction she wants she it leaves her holding the emotional rage she is trying to off load. She does not know how to handle that and will try different ways to get the reaction out of me. I keep calm and not react. Eventually she loses interest and it ends peacefully. Once caveat to this. When I am tired and stressed out I find it much harder to do this. So I have to be very careful in those moments to keep my self in check and not react.

Coping mechanism #3 - I find a space to withdraw to and get away from my wife and I found ways to keep my self occupied that did not include her. When her behavior was at its worst we were living in a small house and even if you were at opposite ends of the house you did not feel you had any separation from anyone else in the house. I found after we moved to a larger house that if I could go someplace in the house where I could be alone and get away from her. I also now have different activities I can do in the house that can occupy my time, keep my mind distracted and pass the time in a calm and peaceful manner.

Coping mechanism #4 - Realizing my part in the dynamic. I have spent the last 3 1/2 years in therapy. Not so much to learn to deal with her but to work on my issues and how they played into the dysfunction in our relationship. I had to be very honest with myself. Brutally honest actually but that was in the end the best thing I could have done for myself. I have suffered with abandonment issues, anxiety and depression all my life. I learned how to manage my anxiety with out medication. I came to realize that the way I was reacting to her actions was making the whole situation worse. I was constantly throwing gasoline onto the fire so to speak. When I stopped doing that there was immediate improvement. I came to realize that I like to be alone sometimes and I do not have to have someone there all the time or to do things with. I learned that I am an extroverted introvert and that I really need time away from others to remove the stress of dealing with them. Not being around people is always bad for me. I actually love talking to people and doing things with them but eventually it becomes fatiguing and I need some time to myself to recenter and recoup.

Coping mechanism #5 - I did not let her cut me off from my support system. I always made sure I had someone to talk to. My wife and I moved from where we grew up to a new state about 1000 miles from home in 2009. after that she started to try and cut me off from friends and family. I never let this happen completely and always made sure I had someone to talk (vent) to. When I started therapy it was great because I could talk to my therapist and get feedback on If how I was feeling was realistic or not etc. I was able to talk out my methods of coping and he helped me see other points of view.

There are still aspects of my relationship with my wife that I struggle with. The emotional abandonment, manipulative sex life, her disregard for my needs and wants... I am still working on these. I have think these are the tough ones because they deal with the substance of our relationship. With out these things does the relationship still exist? Who do I turn to in my moments of weakness and need if she wont be there for me? I have not worked these out yet but am trying.

I hope my experiences can help you deal with your situation. You are not alone and I am sure you are none of the horrible things he says.

Best Regards,

DMW

[pursuingJoy]

This is a great response, DMW! We're thinking of you, UBPDHelp!

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks PursuingJoy and Dead Man Walking...

I do not go to therapy and pretty much don’t really have anyone I can confide in. I have a few friends but don’t say much to them b/c then I know I can’t come back from it.

I would probably just get divorced if I could support myself and my children. And, if I thought he would just go.  He’s mostly good to the kids and I don’t worry about them physically. Only recently as the magnitude and frequency have grown, I have become aware of the emotional toll we are all taking.  

And when I say go, I just mean not torment me at every chance. He does a lot of things that are fun and supportive but then some random thing will set him off and just depends who will get the brunt of it.  Usually me.

He has a crazy way he can relate every issue to me being a slut.  Like it is the source of every issue that ever arises.  I have only ever slept with one other person and regret now that I was probably too young/immature.

He thinks I’m forever linked to this other person and this is why I am not as much into sex as he is.  Umm, no, it’s because you call me a disgusting slut all the time.  Doesn’t make me much in the mood especially since he’s the one spewing that hate.  And, that he does not get.  

He looked up this other guy (again) and told me he was doing this and that (which he thinks is stupid). I don’t even know how to respond.  I haven’t seen or spoken to this person for over 30 years — how am I supposed to be responsible for whatever he is doing (with his own family).

Why is he so focused on this?  I totally don’t get it.

And he’s again stopped responding to my texts — lighthearted and holiday.  I know as soon as he gets to work, I’ll be getting a rage text.  I can guarantee it.  And even though I know it’s coming, I still have an upset stomach, anxiety and cringe every time I touch my phone.

The thing is, I can see the cycling through very clearly recently.  Sometimes it’s his mom, and I’m great.  Then I say a normal thing and then I’m the target and his mom is wonderful.  Occasionally a friend or one of the kids.  

He’s back and forth.  The thing is, I have tried and it has been so long and nothing changes. Nothing.  I get a week or two of love and peace and then he’ll go digging into someone and then I’m horrible again.

Some possible triggers — back pain, staying up to late, nausea.  Does that sound possible?

I just want peace and normal issues.  So many bad decisions b/c trying to avoid setting him off.  

And, this has been a gradual build up over the years...he’s always had moments, but the bad have just grown so much in the last 5-10 years.

Just sad and confused.  

Any thoughts on getting him to leave without becoming a target and where he provides some support?

Any thoughts/insights/comments are welcome...it helps process.

Blessings to all.

[UBPDHelp]

Also DMW,

Agree on the emotional abandonment.  It’s a weird thing...if I get so much as a sniffle, it’s “are you sick, are you sick?”  No, just allergies.  Then I’m told I am attention seeking.  I have some minor(ish) health issues, but I cannot discuss with him and he will not acknowledge them.  It’s like he thinks I just want attention and he’s not capable of any compassion.

He’s also massively into taking credit for everything.  Any and all good ideas are his (he’s taken credit for some of mine)...and no one can shop at the same store, wear the same style shirt or pants (I mean they’re not even unusual) because they’re copying him and he gets mad.  Me, on the other hand, wants everyone to enjoy stuff I have.  Like if I have a fave pair of jeans, I’ll tell people why I love them and they should try if they’re looking for some.  He would pass out if anyone ever tried to have something he had.  It’s just odd to me.  Thoughts?

And, the sex is weird.  Like I am trying to be more vested in our relationship to see if giving him more undivided attention and honestly, sex, will put his fears at ease.  Writing it, it sounds manipulative, but honestly not the intent.  But, rather, seeing if my retreat has perhaps contributed to the state.  But, it then becomes sex every day, in the morning or at night and then in between, he starts trying to grab me every which way constantly.  It’s like the sex feeds the desire for more sex and it’s like some kind of pacifier for him and how he sees his value.

I’m convinced his 16 yo girlfriend told him he was everything to her after they slept together and another girl he dated (who would not sleep with him) told him (when he chose me), that he would regret it because I would always only care about my first boyfriend.  Maybe that’s how either of them felt, but not how I felt or feel.  It seems to me that these were immature relationships and things were said that were immature but he still believes them.  He thinks his 16 yo girlfriend is still waiting for him and if she gets divorced, she would want him back b/c he is her everything.  And that is why he thinks I still give a care about my old boyfriend.  I simply don’t. 

Am I wrong to think people don’t care about this as much as he thinks they do? Are most people hung up on the first person they slept with?  Am I the minority here?  I have no gauge so I really am I asking for feedback.

Thanks for all your patience...

[pursuingJoy]

I'm sure most of us remember the first person we slept with but your H does seem unusually fixated on his first girlfriend.  I'm not familiar enough with BPD to know if this particular fascination is a common one. It makes sense that he is projecting his own thoughts about her and his experience with her onto you and your experience with your boyfriend.

I'm really sorry you're having to deal with pressure for consistent sex alongside the demeaning commentary and accusations about your past boyfriend. This seems like it would be hurtful and exhausting after a while. I'm sure this is part of the emotional toll you're realizing you're carrying.

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks PursuingJoy.  And sorry about the much delayed reply...between the holidays and traveling, I haven’t had a free moment.

I agree, but where it is the past to me and I simply have moved on, he has not. And, yes, his first is his true love, but he is equally obsessed with mine (he very casually knew him) and he tells me we’re not married because I’m married to my boyfriend from 30 years ago (since he’s the first person I slept with, and only other).

Things were somewhat okay over the holidays, but we were away and having fun with the kids.  When we got back, he decided we hadn’t had enough sex and somehow it was all my fault, despite him not taking any down time and always doing things with the kids.

He went back to work and would not respond to a text or phone call ( we often speak/text once or twice a day about stuff going on).  On day 2 I realized it was silent treatment ( he superficially engaged at night, but no sex, not that I care in the least b/c he’s made it a critiqued chore), I stopped trying to text or call and just went about my day. On Friday he came home and declared he was over it and we’d go back to “normal”.

Couple things trip him but he pulls back fairly okay.  Last night what would be a non-issue comment about not remembering something turned into a whole issue with him.

Some background. Several (maybe 10-15 years) into relationship/“marriage”; I started hearing some things about my previous boyfriend and me. Some stuff was sort of correct, but just a little off/exaggerated.  I would say that wasn’t how I remembered it...and the line just kept moving a little bit more. The thing is, it was so long before I didn’t really remember all the finite details AND he never said he thought these things the whole time.

No way to fix it. I long forgot because it wasn’t important but yet he was holding onto finite details. I believe the ex filled his head with bs and H filled in blanks. These details became facts and just keep getting more significant. Gaslighting for sure.

It happens all the time with the dumbest things. But I don’t know how to deal with it any more.

So last night, b/c I couldn’t remember this insignificant detail about the trip, it turned into remembering something about my ex and having to answer questions I couldn’t remember all the details. One point is wrong (it is, I just can’t remember exactly) and he is now focused on it.

Got a bulleted text message at 2am about it. It’s stuff I haven’t thought about in at least 10-15 years (last time he brought this particular event up) but happened 30+ years ago. Who cares?

It is an ever shifting game I can’t win.  Just calm this issue/fear/rage and then peace for a bit until someone says virgin in a movie or makes a joke about sleeping around or I remember something from 30 years ago.  How can I remember that but not everything? I don’t know, but I can’t. Like isn’t it normal to remember some things and not everything?

And, he doesn’t remember everything either (not to mention he believed a lot of wrong stuff for years but never said it)...is it a lie or did he forget?  Some are lies because he’s said things to make a point and then years later to make a different point, it’s a new story.

Truth is I don’t really care. It’s just sad that I can’t have a normal life and even more sad my kids can’t. I thought for the longest time that my kids deserved a family and I (for years!) operated that these things weren’t a big deal and would be addressed “normally”.  But they just keep coming up over and over and over and over.  I didn’t realize what was happening. And things didn’t start this way. They have gotten worse and worse. And I almost think as my family has diminished and I have no one left, he’s gotten worse. Where will I go? 

Again, I don’t really have a question but really appreciate feedback and/or suggestions. 

Thanks so much!