Made it through the holidays

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

I've been absent a bit, mostly due to the craziness of the holidays. I was dreading them with a passion due to the continued NC with my FOO, both from dealing with the feelings from it all, combined with fearing any escalations on their part since they refuse to honor our attempts at NC. Luckily nothing too bad happened. Somehow emails from my sister made it to my inbox during the break despite me blocking her address. We heard third hand that before my mom had my aunt and cousin to incorrectly blame for our estrangement, she was telling other people that I'm just doing what I have to do to keep W from leaving, with the kids. I swear she will "apologize" for anything and everything, and blame someone else in the very next breath. Heck maybe it helps be an even better martyr.

Today is my first functional day back at work and I had an email (work address to work address within same company) from my dad first thing, telling me this isn't how adults act. And that my mom doesn't deserve this. And renewed his threat to talk to me one way or another. Threats aside, so much irony in his words. And yet his timing is impeccable. First day in 2-3 weeks I'm home alone, left to only my work and my thought, so of course I'm busy being angry in my head and internally chewing him out.

All that said, we made it through Christmas. We did have a bought of strep throat that went through the house and took up most of our time off, but the bright side is we were focused more on that than my family. It was a sigh of relief to get the Christmas decorations put away. Bittersweet sending the kids back to school. But the last dose of antibiotics gets taken tonight, my daughter's cast from her fall came off yesterday, so we're almost back to whatever our semblance of normal is!

Anyway, I have some catching up to do on here. Just wanted to check in while I had a moment. Hope everyone is well!

[ProudDad12]

Hi everyone,

I've been absent a bit, mostly due to the craziness of the holidays. I was dreading them with a passion due to the continued NC with my FOO, both from dealing with the feelings from it all, combined with fearing any escalations on their part since they refuse to honor our attempts at NC. Luckily nothing too bad happened. Somehow emails from my sister made it to my inbox during the break despite me blocking her address. We heard third hand that before my mom had my aunt and cousin to incorrectly blame for our estrangement, she was telling other people that I'm just doing what I have to do to keep W from leaving, with the kids. I swear she will "apologize" for anything and everything, and blame someone else in the very next breath. Heck maybe it helps be an even better martyr.

Today is my first functional day back at work and I had an email (work address to work address within same company) from my dad first thing, telling me this isn't how adults act. And that my mom doesn't deserve this. And renewed his threat to talk to me one way or another. Threats aside, so much irony in his words. And yet his timing is impeccable. First day in 2-3 weeks I'm home alone, left to only my work and my thought, so of course I'm busy being angry in my head and internally chewing him out.

All that said, we made it through Christmas. We did have a bought of strep throat that went through the house and took up most of our time off, but the bright side is we were focused more on that than my family. It was a sigh of relief to get the Christmas decorations put away. Bittersweet sending the kids back to school. But the last dose of antibiotics gets taken tonight, my daughter's cast from her fall came off yesterday, so we're almost back to whatever our semblance of normal is!

Anyway, I have some catching up to do on here. Just wanted to check in while I had a moment. Hope everyone is well!

[pursuingJoy]

PD12 welcome back! I've been wondering how you've been.

We survived holidays without any major mishaps too, but just typing that makes me sad. I'd rather enjoy holidays than dread or survive them and be happy to put decorations away. Did your kids enjoy it? And congrats on the cast coming off!

We heard third hand that before my mom had my aunt and cousin to incorrectly blame for our estrangement, she was telling other people that I'm just doing what I have to do to keep W from leaving, with the kids.

Oh my. At the risk of offending, this made me laugh out loud. It's an attempt to soothe her own fears of rejection, but that's pretty low.

Your dad is tenacious, I'll give him that. Did you respond? Can you explain what makes you angry about what he said?

Here's to a season of peace and quiet. I'm claiming it.

pj

[Choosinghope]

Hi Proud Dad! I'm newer to this site, but I read through some of your previous posts. I'm so glad to hear that you and your family were able to enjoy the holiday without any drama. I think for a lot of us, that is a huge blessing. You are doing the right thing for you and your family, regardless of what your FOO is very doggedly claiming.

And yet his timing is impeccable. First day in 2-3 weeks I'm home alone, left to only my work and my thought, so of course I'm busy being angry in my head and internally chewing him out.

I can so relate to this, sadly. Parents seem to be the best at being able to get into our heads, and their words can fly to the surface whenever we have quiet moments. Something I found that really helps is to just stop what you are doing, take 10 min., and write down all the terrible things that are rolling around in your head and would LOVE to say to your mom/dad. Read it over, acknowledge that you are a better person than that, and then burn it/throw it away. It has really helped me refocus when I feel stuck in my own head. Best wishes to you as you return back to work after the holidays! 

[ProudDad12]

PD12 welcome back! I've been wondering how you've been.

We survived holidays without any major mishaps too, but just typing that makes me sad. I'd rather enjoy holidays than dread or survive them and be happy to put decorations away. Did your kids enjoy it? And congrats on the cast coming off!

Glad y'all's holidays at least went smoothly!

Yeah Christmas used to be my favorite time of year, but that hasn't been the case for a few years now. The kids seemed to enjoy it. We had to forego our usual traditions due to the illnesses, but we did what we could, and tried to make up the rest to them. Not to mention Santa was a little more generous than normal due to the circumstances!  Poor D's big present was a BMX bike (she LOVES BMX), but she couldn't ride due to the cast. But the local club lent her a stationary trainer so she could pedal her bike in the living room until the cast came off. Once everyone was well (and bouncing off the walls from cabin fever) we tried to make the best of the remaining time off.

Your dad is tenacious, I'll give him that. Did you respond? Can you explain what makes you angry about what he said?

I didn't respond. Going through the familiar cycle of wondering if I should and likely concluding it won't do anything other than tell him he found the switch.

So, to break down certain things he said that made me angry:

1) That my mom doesn't deserve this...   Really? You know who else doesn't deserve this? My wife. My kids. Me. I am so sick and tired of the complete and utter blindness, ignorance, and arrogance of them maintaining my mom is a perfect angel who's farts smell of lavender. When we've experienced plenty of gaslighting, manipulation, and sometimes raging to suggest otherwise.

2) That he understands if we don't want to see him anymore (but my mom doesn't deserve this)... So this one is between the lines a bit. But I am certain this is alluding to when he told my aunt to tell my cousin to not "like" any of W's Facebook activity. They are currently hinging the cause of all the estrangement over the fact that my cousin told us about that. Aside from the fact that we were NC months before that, notice that I said its because they told us, not because he did it. Aside from the 100 other things that have happened since July, he knows full well that we know about this one, is convinced that it is a large root to the problem, and yet he is too proud and arrogant to even directly address it much less apologize.

3) Telling me how wrong it was to leave my mom stranded at the front door. REALLY? It's not like I asked her to show up, uninvited and unannounced, on a work day, while I'm on a phone call with my peers and management, to which I humiliatingly had to ask my boss to cover for me on so I could address the drama banging at my door. Just more complete and utter disrespect for me and my job, but that doesn't matter to them. It's my fault for not letting her in.

4) Once again, he's using company resources to get in my head and make passive threats ("I will have to surprise you", "I will find a way to talk to you") Though guess I only have myself to blame for not filtering his address at work.

Those are just a few things that came to mind. It appears some of my anger leaked out while typing!

Here's to a season of peace and quiet. I'm claiming it.

pj

I concur!

Hi Proud Dad! I'm newer to this site, but I read through some of your previous posts. I'm so glad to hear that you and your family were able to enjoy the holiday without any drama. I think for a lot of us, that is a huge blessing. You are doing the right thing for you and your family, regardless of what your FOO is very doggedly claiming.

Thank you! I keep trying to remind myself of the same. No matter how many people reassure me of that, I still struggle. Hopefully it will get easier.

I can so relate to this, sadly. Parents seem to be the best at being able to get into our heads, and their words can fly to the surface whenever we have quiet moments. Something I found that really helps is to just stop what you are doing, take 10 min., and write down all the terrible things that are rolling around in your head and would LOVE to say to your mom/dad. Read it over, acknowledge that you are a better person than that, and then burn it/throw it away. It has really helped me refocus when I feel stuck in my own head. Best wishes to you as you return back to work after the holidays! 

Thanks! Yeah I did that a month or so back and stopped at 4 pages (only because I ran out of time. Perhaps I need to do the same today!

[Notwendy]

While I didn't go NC, when I started to have boundaries with my mother, a line in an email from my dad stood out to me. He wanted me to return to the way things were. She was basically allowed to treat me however she wanted and complete compliance from me was expected.

He wrote: " I just want to be a happy family again".

Happy? Really?

When was I happy when my mother was emotionally and verbally abusing me?

When was I happy being a doormat to my mother?

When was I happy being manipulated and raged at?

What did they think a happy family was? My mother raging at my father? My father having to comply with her wishes? 

Basically, being a "happy family" meant all of us trying to make my mother happy. But whether anyone else was happy or not wasn't a consideration.

Kind of like "your mother doesn't deserve that" . But it's really not about her. It's about you being able to have the peace you need with your family.

[pursuingJoy]

Good job not responding, PD12.

Notwendy made some excellent points about family expectations. This really isn't about anyone deserving anything good or bad. My H says, "Nothing she's done is so bad to deserve this treatment from you." When he says that, I ask him to define my mistreatment. I've never spoken harshly to her. I've never put her down on social media or to anyone in the family. I've simply chosen not to engage. That is not cruel. In fact, it can be argued that it's loving. H disagrees but I've found peace in that truth.

You're an independent individual who has set boundaries with your FOO that enable you to protect what you value. The fact that they disrespect your boundaries by emailing you at work (where they know you'll read it) and showing up on your doorstep is 100% on them. Their squirming and discomfort is for them to manage. I know you know all of this, I just want to offer some encouragement.

And don't worry about your anger leaking out, especially here. We get it.

[Methuen]

First day in 2-3 weeks I'm home alone

Sadly, this didn't surprise me.  It's probably not a coincidence. 

Since I was married (31 1/2 years ago!), my mom always found me "alone" to dump on me with one of her rages.  Other people could even be in the house, but if I went downstairs to get something, she would quietly follow me down there to do her "dumping".  Less than a year ago, mom was so out of control, that she couldn't wait until I was alone, and unleashed one of her tirades while my H and FIL were in the room.  It was high drama.  Her door slam afterwards was like an earthquake happened.  After 30 years of marriage my H was in shock because he had never witnessed anything like that in his life, much less from my mother, only heard about it from me.  Well, after that he was a believer.  Now he supports me in a whole new way.

So, I "get it" that this happened the first day you were alone.

Honestly, to me it feels predatory (that BPD chooses time when they are alone with us). 

I once had someone tell me that they choose us to dump on because they feel safe with us.  This is why only their closest relationships are affected...  In a sick twisted kind of way the message was that it's a compliment to us because they only do that with the people they feel safe with...

When my mom starts to get in my head I get on this board, I go for a walk, or I go on my meditation app (on a good day 3 min will do the trick, on a bad night when I can't sleep it might be 60-90 min).

Good for you for holding boundaries.

Can you filter his address from your work email?  How would you feel about that?

[TelHill]

When my mom starts to get in my head I get on this board, I go for a walk, or I go on my meditation app (on a good day 3 min will do the trick, on a bad night when I can't sleep it might be 60-90 min).

Good for you for holding boundaries.

Can you filter his address from your work email?  How would you feel about that?

Methuen, That's a good idea with personal emails sent to you, but email from work colleagues is different, if I may say. At my job I had to open each email. You never know what important company issue the person is conveying. You may want to detach, skim and detach from work email your dad. Glad you survived the holidays, ProudDad!

[Methuen]

You are right Telhill

(work address to work address within same company)

I had missed the work address to work address detail, and thought "dad" was emailing Prouddad12 personal emails to the work address.

My bad, ProudDad12!  More careful reading needed

Thanks for clarifying Telhill!

[ProudDad12]

Notwendy, you hit the nail on the head. When things are "good", it's by their definition, by their expectations, and by their wants and needs. For them, surely nothing can be hurting us because they aren't doing anything wrong. I didn't mention this part of the email, but my dad summed up our issue as "hurt feelings", after having the nerve to tell me this isn't how adults behave.

PJ, thanks for the encouragement. It really does help to hear/read it.

Methuen, I'm afraid you're right, it's probably not a coincidence. And predatory is a good analogy. W has (rightfully) complained for years that they always choose times when I'm alone. It's ironic, because they think W speaks for me and controls me, when that is exactly what they are trying to do by getting me alone.

Telhill is right, it was from within the company. But I do intend to try filtering his address with Outlook rules.  I was hoping to avoid it just because it bothers me that my personal life is leaking so much into my work life that I'm having to take that sort of action, but here I am. Luckily our jobs will never intersect, so I doubt I'll get in trouble for doing it. That said, I can't block his work number, because he calls from the mainline of a facility of 1000+.  


So an update... The day after the email my wife noticed the "Blocked Voicemail" folder on her iPhone, which she hadn't had before. It was a voicemail from my dad. So then we looked at both my work phone and my personal phone... between those two phones he called no fewer than 8 times in the span of a couple hours. Leaving messages telling me he's not giving up, that we're going to talk, etc.

Now things are getting difficult on how to act. Some are advising me to show his email(s) to HR. Some are advising me to file an injunction or restraining order. And I can't figure out were the line between overreacting and protecting my family lies. Despite his blatant disrespect for my independence and my job, I don't want to hurt his livelihood. And legal action just feels like a crazy nuclear option. But some argue I'm not properly protecting my family if I don't. I personally don't anticipate his actions to be violent, especially with us being family. But on the other hand this is a man who's anger and temper have lead to "joking" comments about fantasies of "beating with a steel pipe" someone who angered him. Not to mention the jokes about shooting my wife I discussed in other threads. I know we have all said out of line things that would make us look bad if repeated, but it's hard to dismiss such comments when we're on the receiving end of his anger. To add to that without getting into detail, my mom also once "opened up" about my dad physically harming her once or twice, and begged me not to tell my siblings. That was it's own mind-job, because I didn't even know if I believed her, not to mention the anger it instilled against my dad, plus the "secretive" nature of it, isolating me from my siblings. Add to all that the fact we are half a year into last time he's seen our kids, and has had to deal with my manipulative and waif mom the whole time.

My uncle, my dad's oldest brother, has been checking in on me. He's been witnessing my dad go along acting like everything is 100% ok and normal, and is getting concerned with the contrast between that and what we are experiencing. I'm glad to have the support. He asked me if I thought it would help if he talked to my dad, or make it worse. I didn't know how to answer. I don't want to drag them in any more than they have been, and I hate the idea of someone else fighting my battles.

Which leads to another side of this, the battle with my frontal lobe. I'm a big guy, but I'm also pretty non-confrontational (goes along with the people pleasing aspect of my personality). But when I think about the crap my dad says and his threats, I get  protectively angry and want to call him out. In fact my first thought to his email was to respond with "I don't respond well to surprises these days" (obviously I thought better afterwards). But then I remind myself that it will accomplish nothing good. And then W also scolds me for worrying about masculinity .

So all that said, there has been much discussion in the PD household about what to do if and when he shows up, and when calling the police becomes a prudent idea. I can't believe I'm even typing that. At the same time, we can't help but to watch our backs, keep the doors locked, and hold our breaths every time we hear a car door slam or our doorbell ring. W isn't comfortable in her own home anymore. And I'm angry.

[pursuingJoy]

He asked me if I thought it would help if he talked to my dad, or make it worse. I didn't know how to answer. I don't want to drag them in any more than they have been, and I hate the idea of someone else fighting my battles.

I'd trust your gut on this one. What you're describing sounds like triangulation and you risk making this a bigger mess than it is. I know you appreciate the feedback your uncle provides, perhaps it gives you some insider information or affirmation, but if you can, I'd leave your uncle out of it completely.
 
I realized that I can either play into MIL's hand by getting locked in emotion or I can find intelligent, creative ways to counter her divisive energy. I wonder if there's a way to do this with your dad. Brainstorming here, but what about a one-liner email response (which is on record) simply indicating that his comments sound threatening. I've had bad ideas before so not sure this is solid but surely there's an opportunity in this somewhere. You're not a victim, you're not powerless, you're simply standing your ground.

At the same time, we can't help but to watch our backs, keep the doors locked, and hold our breaths every time we hear a car door slam or our doorbell ring. W isn't comfortable in her own home anymore. And I'm angry.

Calling the police can be a viable option if things get to that. I'm curious - in your gut, do you believe your dad would really hurt you physically? You go back and forth in your reasoning and listening to others. What's your gut take on this?

[Harri]

Hi PD!

Can you remind me why you do not want to meet up with your dad just to hear what he has to say?

So far, from a distance, it seems that more and more, the emotions are escalating on both sides.  You can't control what happens on your dads end but you can on yours.  I am not sure how to de-escalate at your end though I do wonder if getting so much varying input from sources is part of the issue.  Who is advising a restraining order?  PJ asks a really good question:  what does your gut tell you about your father possibly getting physical?

Getting a restraining order is often not a solution, certainly does not ensure peace, and more often than not is the nuclear option in these sorts of situations.  I am concerned.   

Notwendy, you hit the nail on the head. When things are "good", it's by their definition, by their expectations, and by their wants and needs. For them, surely nothing can be hurting us because they aren't doing anything wrong. I didn't mention this part of the email, but my dad summed up our issue as "hurt feelings", after having the nerve to tell me this isn't how adults behave.

Can you let them have their beliefs? without it affecting you and how you feel about the situation?  Getting them to see your side of things is not working and is probably driving a lot of the hurt.  As is expecting them to see your needs and acknowledge what they have done to you. 

I am not saying to roll over and play dead or accept abuse.  I am saying to consider past behaviors and history and stop expecting your parents to being something they are not and are not capable of being.   You can keep trying to draw the same line, and get no where and just ramp up the emotions or you can try a different approach.  What that approach is, I do not know yet.

What is your ultimate goal in your relationship with your parents?  Let's start there.   

[ProudDad12]

Calling the police can be a viable option if things get to that. I'm curious - in your gut, do you believe your dad would really hurt you physically? You go back and forth in your reasoning and listening to others. What's your gut take on this?

I truly don't know what he would try. If I had to take a guess I'd say nothing physical. But even on an anonymous forum, I'm hesitant to discuss specifically what evidence I have of what he's supposedly capable of (alluded to in my previous post). For now I'll say either my mom is guilty of a heinous lie to me and my wife, or my dad is guilty of seriously harming my mom in the past. I don't know which, which is pretty messed up.

Can you remind me why you do not want to meet up with your dad just to hear what he has to say?

I wish I could answer this easily. So much has happened in the past 6 months. But aside from what he has done, and aside from the fact that he is approaching this from a stance of posturing and demanding, and aside from the fact that he has a temper, and aside from the fact that we are trying our best to maintain NC with them, I'll say this... Last time we had a prolonged conflict with them, and by that I mean only one month, he did plenty of wrong.  And my wife and I drove to a midpoint to meet with him. He approached it with complete arrogance and was completely unapologetic. My dad doesn't apologize for anything and sees no wrong in anything he does. And treated us like we were beneath him. The situation this time is much more serious, and much worse has happened, and its been going on for 6 months. History has shown me that nothing good will come from meeting with him.

So far, from a distance, it seems that more and more, the emotions are escalating on both sides.  You can't control what happens on your dads end but you can on yours.  I am not sure how to de-escalate at your end though I do wonder if getting so much varying input from sources is part of the issue.  Who is advising a restraining order?  PJ asks a really good question:  what does your gut tell you about your father possibly getting physical?

I'm almost worried that I've been on these boards complaining so long that the earlier part of my history is falling out of relevance . So, I tend to have to use friends as sounding boards. Due to the nature of the environment I was raised in, I'm programmed to feel the need to please my parents, to be responsible for their feelings, to make them happy, and to completely and utterly obey them. My sense of guilt has also been distorted. Basically they have to be happy for me to be happy. As such, I've had to rely heavily on friends on the outside to help keep me grounded.

Today, I'm angry, and partially venting that on here. I don't know if that means our end is escalating; who knows, it may be. The issue for us is he's made veiled threats, which puts the ball in our court to either act, not act, or prepare. That's where all the recommendations are coming in.

The restraining order recommendation is coming in part from my friend, who's wife's mom had BPD and they went through similar, perhaps worse than us. Except in their case her dad wasn't enabling and enforcing like my dad does.  She's also a lawyer, so I'm sure that doesn't help. I almost want to say my wife got advised it too by co-workers (she works in the psychology field).

As far as what my gut tells me, PJ asked the same thing, and I'm struggling to answer. I just know I've never in my life seen my dad handle himself well when angry. I wasn't abused or anything (though I guess that's relative, considering he used belts), but I know he has a temper, and I know enough to not be able to convince myself with 99% certainly that he'd stay in line. My wife is scared of him, which regardless of if it's warranted, has to count for something.

Can you let them have their beliefs? without it affecting you and how you feel about the situation?  Getting them to see your side of things is not working and is probably driving a lot of the hurt.  As is expecting them to see your needs and acknowledge what they have done to you.  

I am not saying to roll over and play dead or accept abuse.  I am saying to consider past behaviors and history and stop expecting your parents to being something they are not and are not capable of being.   You can keep trying to draw the same line, and get no where and just ramp up the emotions or you can try a different approach.  What that approach is, I do not know yet.

What is your ultimate goal in your relationship with your parents?  Let's start there.  

It's not a matter of letting them have their beliefs, we just want to be left alone. In the past, their beliefs have had a tendency to build up and result in verbal attacks on us, and after all the verbal/emotional abuse from last year, we said enough was enough and stepped away. They don't understand what they've done wrong. I'm resisting the urge to belabor trying to justify why we went NC in the first place, but the consensus from some outsiders is we should have done it long ago. Others just agree their behavior is awful and don't know how to advise us. I need to stop myself, because I'm trying to rehash the whole thing over again, wanting to explain all the nuances!

My wife is at a point that she never wants to see them again, and doesn't want our children seen them again. Being their blood, there's still a glimmer of hope in me somewhere that they'll do the right thing and somehow time can make things better for everyone. I can't figure out if that makes me a fool. I know they love us (W would rephrase that to loves me and the kids), but that by itself doesn't stop emotional abuse.

But the bottom line is this... right now we just want to be left alone.  They know it, and they refuse to respect it.

I'm sorry, I haven't communicated myself well today. Being on edge wondering what my dad may or may not do, and praying he doesn't do it with the kids home, has me a bit less thoughtful and more emotional than normal.

[GaGrl]

First, a practical suggestion...

I believe Outlook rules will allow you to designate messages from a particular email to go straight to a folder. If you do that with your father's internal emails, you then have the ability to see if there are messages in the folder without having to open them, and you can then open when you feel like it...or not.

Next, an interim action to a restraining order might be a "cease and desist" letter sent by a lawyer. This could be firm yet vanilla enough not to exacerbate their feelings of unjust blame...just an official "leave us alone--really" message.

The truth about your father's physical actions with your mother could lie somewhere in the middle.

Your father probably has been through six months of being the focus of your mother's daily BPD behaviors, without any relief from other family members who can "solve" or alleviate her pain. He may be desperate to restore the "way it was," dysfunctional as that was, while remaining blind to his own role in the mess.

 It's always an option to do nothing but live your life.I

Just as an exercise, it you were to have a "cease and desist" letter, what would you say to them?

[Methuen]

Wow this seems to be evolving quickly as the thread started with:

Luckily nothing too bad happened

...over the Christmas holidays, to:

W isn't comfortable in her own home anymore. And I'm angry.

...over three days.

First, let me apologize again for somehow missing the paranthesis comment in this sentence:

Today is my first functional day back at work and I had an email (work address to work address within same company) from my dad first thing, telling me this isn't how adults act.

I'm really sorry about that (thanks again Telhill).

This situation seems to be getting super complicated now, with thoughts about restraining orders (albeit perhaps distant thoughts), police, and feeling safe in one's own home...

1) Have you by any chance started keeping a record and saving this history of "personal" emails to you from his "work" email?  If this situation were to continue to devolve and get uglier (think HR), it might be worthwhile to have a record saved of those emails (showing they were written on the job)?  If it were me, I would probably copy them to a file I created just for those emails (a kind of "evidence") so it never has to be "your word against his" since you share the same employer... Maybe I'm overthinking it, but maybe it could prove useful down to road, to have this "at the ready".    

2)

Today is my first functional day back at work and I had an email (work address to work address within same company) from my dad first thing, telling me this isn't how adults act.

To apply the principle of professionalism when there is conflict on the job, the normal first step is to try talking to the person (before going up the ladder to HR for example).  Clearly you've already done what you can in person, and we (BPDfamily) already know this strategy isn't going to work with your family, but your HR probably doesn't know or care much about any kind of PD or family dynamics.  They just want everyone to do their job well.  So to protect yourself at work, (and before considering some of the recommendations of your colleagues who are suggesting you go to HR), how about a real simple "I statement" email (so there's a written record ):

"Dad, I feel disappointed when you send me personal emails while we are both at work, and over our employer's server.  Please refrain from sending me personal emails while we are working."

That simple email (on the employer server) would demonstrate to the employer that you do NOT support using employer time to hash out personal business.  It also simply but clearly states what has been happening, and recognizes your request that it stop.  

Should it be contested by your dad, you would have your "saved emails" for evidence.

It sets a boundary for your dad.  Also, your dad could not turn around and twist the facts against you down the road, under the roof of your shared employer.

It also gives your dad another good opportunity to change his behavior.

The down side, is that your dad may perceive it as an opening to poke at you with this in your personal time instead.

If that were to happen, you can still maintain your NC/LC as you do now.

What you are doing, is setting a new work boundary, but maintaining the same home boundary it sounds like you've already set.

What your dad needs to do, is recognize there are two different boundaries, and act a little more professionally on the job (keep work and personal life separate).

 

[Methuen]

Last thought (didn't fit into my "edit" window from the last entry):

I am not sure how to de-escalate at your end though I do wonder if getting so much varying input from sources is part of the issue.  Who is advising a restraining order?  PJ asks a really good question:  what does your gut tell you about your father possibly getting physical?

Getting a restraining order is often not a solution, certainly does not ensure peace, and more often than not is the nuclear option in these sorts of situations.

It justs seems like this has all escalated quite quickly.  Is it possible to find a way to S-L-O-W things down?  Maybe even consider not talking to people at work about it for a time?  Some people at work can be attracted to drama, and although they are well-meaning and well-intentioned, some of their ideas seem to be escalating ideas, and don't really leave much room for time, space to think, reparation, or de-escalation.  Also, it might not be helpful if that were to get back to your dad.

It's such a struggle Prouddad12.  I can't even imagine having my family problems come into my workplace.  My workplace was always my escape.  So I feel for you bigtime.

 

[Harri]

History has shown me that nothing good will come from meeting with him.

Okay.

I'm almost worried that I've been on these boards complaining so long that the earlier part of my history is falling out of relevance Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

No worries there with me.  I usually go back and skim a bit of your previous posts a second time before replying.  I asked for a reminder because I have never been clear on whether you wanted NC or LC with your parents.  Your words say NC but your actions and responses with your parents and friends say LC.   

If your parents are getting responses from you while you are saying don't contact me, it is confusing.  I am not saying that gives them the right to do the things they have been doing.  I am saying that you need to be clear.  Reading your threads and posts I find myself thinking that for someone who is NC you seem to have a lot of contact with them even if it is through discussing them with other people.  I understand looking to others to help you stay firm in your own thoughts... yet I question how you can have your own thoughts when you are hearing so many from other people.  I hope that does not sound harsh as it is not meant that way at all.  I am all for empowering people in healthy ways.  A lot of that is going to come from differentiation and part of that is from learning and using the tools and things like learning our own distress management techniques so we are not dependent on others and so we can stand firm in what we know. 

Having said all that, I do support seeking input from other trusted individuals who can put their own biases and personal experiences aside to the point where it does not direct the content of their advice but rather helps you check your own motivations and needs and desires and how that may be coloring your thoughts.  I am not sure if you are getting advice from people who are doing that... can't tell from where I am.     

Here is another blunt thing I have to say/ask:  I know what it is like to be trained to respond certain ways and not trust our own thoughts and perceptions.  We are adults now though and those restrictions and lessons do not need to govern us now.  I don't know the answer to my next question and you do not have to answer here:  Are you making progress in terms of building confidence in your own thoughts and perceptions or are you still at the same point you were about 3 years ago and relying on others to the same degree? 

At this point I am more concerned with your mental and emotional well being as I see you struggling so much with this issue.   We are a support board with a focus on Recovery so we will ask questions and challenge you while supporting you and listening to you vent.    So you do not need to: 

I need to stop myself, because I'm trying to rehash the whole thing over again, wanting to explain all the nuances!

  We get it.

But the bottom line is this... right now we just want to be left alone.  They know it, and they refuse to respect it.

This happens a lot here.  What can you do differently that will not escalate the situation?

I'm sorry, I haven't communicated myself well today. Being on edge wondering what my dad may or may not do, and praying he doesn't do it with the kids home, has me a bit less thoughtful and more emotional than normal.

I see your reply here differently than you do and I see no reason to apologize.  You are being honest and responding from both your intellect and emotional mind and yes there is some confusion and frustration in there.  It is expected on this site and especially on this board (within reason of course).   

 

[ProudDad12]

I believe Outlook rules will allow you to designate messages from a particular email to go straight to a folder. If you do that with your father's internal emails, you then have the ability to see if there are messages in the folder without having to open them, and you can then open when you feel like it...or not.

That's pretty much what I was thinking to do. That way they're saved if I need them.

Next, an interim action to a restraining order might be a "cease and desist" letter sent by a lawyer. This could be firm yet vanilla enough not to exacerbate their feelings of unjust blame...just an official "leave us alone--really" message.

That's certainly an option a step less severe than an injunction. I hate considering any legal action, I'm just running out of ideas. They know we want to be left alone, they just don't like it.

Your father probably has been through six months of being the focus of your mother's daily BPD behaviors, without any relief from other family members who can "solve" or alleviate her pain. He may be desperate to restore the "way it was," dysfunctional as that was, while remaining blind to his own role in the mess.

I've suspected the same. From his email, I think he's less concerned about making up with us than he is getting us back into the fold with my mom.

It's always an option to do nothing but live your life.I

That's exactly the goal!

Wow this seems to be evolving quickly

Agreed. Embarrassingly so. I hope we aren't the ones escalating... I've done and said nothing to them, but it's hard not to let the harassment and threats get to us.

First, let me apologize again for somehow missing the paranthesis comment in this sentence:

I'm really sorry about that (thanks again Telhill).

Please don't worry about it, I didn't think anything of it!

Thanks for the suggestions regarding work. For now I'm opting not to respond to him in any way, as it risks provoking him more (not a general statement as much as an historical observation). I have however kept my supervisor in the loop, not to all the detail, but just to give him awareness. Fortunately I have a good relationship with him and he has background on my family issues. Our policies can get tricky, and part of me worries that responding, but not reporting, puts me at risk of getting in trouble for not reporting his harassment. I don't know, HR stuff is tricky these days!

Is it possible to find a way to S-L-O-W things down?  Maybe even consider not talking to people at work about it for a time?  Some people at work can be attracted to drama, and although they are well-meaning and well-intentioned, some of their ideas seem to be escalating ideas, and don't really leave much room for time, space to think, reparation, or de-escalation.  Also, it might not be helpful if that were to get back to your dad.

It's such a struggle Prouddad12.  I can't even imagine having my family problems come into my workplace.  My workplace was always my escape.  So I feel for you bigtime.

 

Thank you. Hope I didn't make it sound that way, but I don't talk about it much to co-workers, aside from occasionally confiding in one or two who I respect. The complication for me is that I work from home. So except for when I'm on calls, I'm alone and left to my thoughts while I try to work. And also home, alone, which is prime time for my dad to show up! As far as slowing things down, I agree. That said, we really aren't doing anything besides worrying. Really the big problem right now is just the unease and unknown of if someone's going to show up at our door looking for a confrontation, since we have recent threats to do as much. That fact just had me angry earlier today, after I had looked out my window for the 30th time. I know doing that sounds silly, but y'all don't know my dad.

No worries there with me.  I usually go back and skim a bit of your previous posts a second time before replying.  I asked for a reminder because I have never been clear on whether you wanted NC or LC with your parents.  Your words say NC but your actions and responses with your parents and friends say LC.   

I may be coming off wrong on that part. While they've been finding ways to get to us, I haven't been saying anything to them. Since early October, I've only communicated with them twice. Once to write my dad a letter before his surgery, and the second time trying to get my mom to leave our front step when she showed up unannounced (and I didn't let her in). Anything besides that was one directional, them to us. I can see how it can come across as otherwise when I keep relaying "what my parents said" on here, sorry about that. We've tried to be pretty clear and firm on our NC.

Having said all that, I do support seeking input from other trusted individuals who can put their own biases and personal experiences aside to the point where it does not direct the content of their advice but rather helps you check your own motivations and needs and desires and how that may be coloring your thoughts.  I am not sure if you are getting advice from people who are doing that... can't tell from where I am.     

Definitely been trying on that one. We have a pretty diverse range of friends, from the emotional to the pragmatic, from the psychologist to the engineer. Also have a few pastor friends. Anyway, our friends know we're trying to do the right thing, and know we don't want to be told "what we want to hear". I know nobody is going to be perfect and know everything, but they do try earnestly to help and try to be objective (well, most of them!)

Are you making progress in terms of building confidence in your own thoughts and perceptions or are you still at the same point you were about 3 years ago and relying on others to the same degree? 

I think I've made a lot of progress, I do feel I'm much less tied to their way of thinking. It's funny you ask, because our therapist actually commented last week that I've made significant progress from the man he met 3 years ago. It wasn't in the context of your specific question, but a lot of it is intertwined. I know I still have a long way to go, and they do still find ways to escalate and present "new challenges". This week is a good example of that. The threats to "surprise me" if I don't respond to him are an effective way to wrestle at any control I've tried to take over my life and thoughts.

What can you do differently that will not escalate the situation?

Wish I knew... As far as them, we are doing nothing more than nothing. But that's just resulting in extinction burst after extinction burst from them. We've established our desire to be left alone, insulated ourselves from their contact pretty much as much as we can (blocking, etc.). We're at a point that either A) nothing happens for now, B) my dad escalates by "surprising" me, or C) we take some level of legal action, which is also an escalation. I'd like to keep it at A, but only so much of that is in my control.

I see your reply here differently than you do and I see no reason to apologize.  You are being honest and responding from both your intellect and emotional mind and yes there is some confusion and frustration in there.  It is expected on this site and especially on this board (within reason of course).   

 

I really appreciate it Harri. Another reason I'm grateful for the people here. I was having a rough day, and it got vented on here a bit. Thanks everyone for the help and patience.