How to deal with incessant efforts to engage?

[sabas]

My wife is currently having an episode. When i was talking with her it's circular arguments, threats, insults, yelling. I said I would take her to the hospital but that I was not equipped to help her. I have stopped answering texts and phone calls, but the lengths she will go to to try to get me to pick up or engage are amazing and I frankly don't know how to deal with them.

She says if I don't answer I don't care, she says she'll break my things, says she's have a mental breakdown, says if I don't answer she'll drive away and never come back, threatens self-harm, says if I call the police to stop her from hurting herself that she'll tell them i hit her and "touch" my child. I have no idea how to navigate this. I'm at a loss and am extremely stressed and anxious. I know answering leads nowhere but I can't take the incessant and increasing stakes of the threats and guilt trips.

What should I do? Continue to ignore until she calms down? Call the police anyway? Answer and try to validate and calm her down?

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Sabas-

Is she putting these threats of self-harm, running off and threats to report you for “touching your child” in text messages?  Are the threats in voicemails?  Basically you have evidence that these threats of mistreating your child are false?  (This is the one that concerns me).  If so, she’s basically blackmailing you in order to get you to do what she wants, correct?

Are these new behaviors, the use of these types of threats?

I’m sorry I don’t know your history, but will go back and read now.

Do you believe her threats of self-harm?  If you have ANY fear that your child is in danger, then do you have any choice but to call the authorities?

Do you believe perhaps if you drive by the police station, play the messages to them or show them the texts and ask their opinion that could help you make a decision?

I wish I could be of more help.  I’m so so sorry, my friend.

For once, just for once, I wish these pwBPD would know what these threats feel like.  Maybe that would make them stop.  I know, I’m dreaming...

Hugs to you.  Please keep posting.

Gemsforeyes

[sabas]

Thanks for the reply!

These aren't new, relatively. They've started in the past few months, when the episodes have gotten far more extreme and frequent. I do believe that if I called the police while she was in that state that she could do anything. I believe she would regret it, but at the time when she's a monster, I think she could do it. As for the self-harm, I believe she has suicidal thoughts, but I think she's the type of person that if she really wanted to do it, I wouldn't know. She would make it happen and without warning. I think when she's having an episode it becomes a weapon. And since she threatens saying those things to the police, I almost feel like she's handcuffing me. I get to the point where I worry, but don't feel truly obligated to do anything because any and all actions have been rebuffed or taken away from me.

I guess I kind of know that i should ignore her until she calms down, but she just makes it so difficult. The lengths she goes to to make me feel bad, guilty, worried, scared are so powerful. And I feel myself really wanting to make sure she knows that I will take her to the hospital, and that I care for and love her, but that anything I do other than that is fruitless.

I appreciate your empathy, a lot. While in the middle of dealing with these things I feel a little crazy myself. Analyzing everything and questioning every action.

[2Loyal2Long]

What Gems said, exactly.

Do you have the threats  in text?
Do you have voicemail threats?

This is hostage taking and is hurting you.  Please reply if you have a paper trail via text or voicemail.

My heart goes out to you.  This sounds so very hurtful and I understand the feeling of powerlessness.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi again Sabas-

I’m not sure whether you’re currently living with your W or not.  But if she’s making these threats and potentially endangering your young child, with her threats of self-harm and making false claims, you’ve got to keep this documentation.  You’ve got to show this documentation. These are harmful things for your little boy to hear and witness.  What are your thoughts on this?

I truly understand that you love her.  This is a painful and confusing disorder.  But she’s high-functioning and very aware of her manipulation tactics.  She also knows help is available to her.

What is it that you think she actually wants you to do?  Yes, we wish to minimize the “damage” and try to keep their secrets.  Sometimes we cannot keep those secrets.  It’s just too dangerous to do so. 

When I ran to call 911 and my exH was arrested for felony domestic assault, I still loved him.  My marriage ended that night and I didn’t see it coming.  This is a hard thing for me to write... still... after almost 8 years.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[sabas]

I appreciate all your thoughts and empathy. I do have evidence. Awhile back I started recording phone calls and some conversations in person when she was making these types of threats. I probably have around 6 significant recordings. No texts. Though I do have texts of her threatening to take my son “to the coast” from today. I’m going to talk to a family law lawyer soon to understand how to cover my ass.

I’m really not sure what she wants. If I had to guess, it’s just a hug and care (which I obviously give all the time), but in these episodes her “I hate you, don’t leave” response goes to 11. She hates me but won’t leave me alone. Wants a hug but is disgusted. I’m not sure she even knows what she wants. She’s just sure I don’t care.

It’s extremely stressful for me because I’m scared to call anyone, and calling the police feels like the only way to make it end sometimes. She verbally abused me severely this weekend, and threw her car keys at me, hitting my on the cheek. I’m drained and hurt by the episode. All I can think about is being in our guest room, in bed, alone, no sound or stimuli. But she insists me doing that is hanging her out to dry as she struggles with a mental breakdown. I feel guilty. Though I’ve told her that I am not equipped to deal with a breakdown, especially not known, and that I will gladly take her somewhere that can help. But she doesn’t want that, of course. She comes home from work in a few hours. I want to seclude myself, but I’m very anxious.

[2Loyal2Long]

Is she in therapy?

One possibility is seeking a mental health warrant (from a judge), at least to get her picked up for evaluation.  It generally involves working with police to get the person outside of the home to prevent a worse situation.

As hard as it may be to make that move, there comes a time when safety comes before fear and pride.

I’m not saying it’s easy.  I’m saying it’s an option, it could get the ball rolling.  Your odds of avoiding her threats against you regarding your children are better if you have the documentation.

The BPD (or any Cluster B) tends to straighten up and and make the non look off balance in front of a judge.  They’ll do anything to trigger you and will show amazing control.  It’s part of the illness.  They act out with those they know they can push, that’s generally family/significant other.  If you go this route stay calm and collected.  It’s hard, but you can do it.

Safety first, and keep the documentation.  I’ve called for welfare checks on my uBPDh several times before and although he hated me at the time he got past it.

Thinking of you, keep us updated and know we all care.

[sabas]

She is in therapy, finally. In the past few months she agreed that she has BPD (it had been broached before by a psychiatrist,  but he didn't want to put it in her chart because of the stigma around it) and we, as a sort of team, started looking for therapy options. She currently sees a counselor for EMDR therapy for her C-PTSD, and then she just started a DBT group (though she hates it, it's not particularly well done, she's on a list for a much better DBT course at a different treatment center). That's all been reasons for hope for me. But, I think maybe this is typical, she's almost gotten worse since starting. I think it probably would have been better to do DBT and then, after finishing, start addressing her horrific childhood. She doesn't currently have the skills (understandably) to deal with excavating all these old, abhorrent memories that she's partly repressed for the past 15 years.

But, even though I empathize greatly with her situation, and her stories from childhood completely break my heart, I can't take the verbal, emotional, and physical abuse any longer. I don't think there's any excuse that really makes abuse okay, even if it's understandable or you "didn't mean to do it".

A welfare check is a good option, I hadn't thought of that. When she has an episode I'm trapped because I don't want to leave my toddler with her, and she won't let me take him on a drive or for a break. So I have to bear the brunt of it while basically gray rocking. And, obviously, calling the police isn't much of an option. You're totally right that she's high-functioning and 100% able to straighten out and seem totally normal and nice. That is something that continues to bother me about the abuse, because she seems out of control, she says she is, and then if she has to go to work she's totally normal and nice to coworkers and customers, meaning she has some form of control. So anyway the welfare check would be good avenue in case things get crazy again.

As for an update, I went to bed quite early, around 8:30 last night. She was still at work. I texted her that i was feeling sick, exhausted and needed a break from the world. I also said that that doesn't mean I don't care, and that I love her. She didn't respond. She ended up coming home around 10:30 and slammed the front door twice. Then went to bed. I was grateful she didn't pound on the guest room door, where i was staying. This morning she had a counseling session and they uprooted some terrible things from childhood. She seems close to just breaking as a person in general. Though she is at work. I'm not sure what to do. Her story of what she talked about with the counselor was so unbelievably terrible that i just wanted to hug her. Obviously, she wouldn't let me. Who knows what will happen this evening.