Possible crisis

[Ozzie101]

It's happened. Someone at H's work (someone in the know) just gave him a heads-up that he's being let go tomorrow. My parents' friend is head of the personnel committee. The daughter of another friend is on it. He's heard now from 8 people (including his ex -- long story). Nothing from tge friends.

He's confused. He's scared. He's hurt. And he's blaming my parents for being friends with them. Not for his losing his job but for remaining friends. Thing is, I'm not sure they're going to stay friends (long story). But he's convincing himself my parents know more than they've told, that I will always side with them and not him. Points out that I got my new job because of him -- because he kept pushing his friend who works there to move on it. Yet I do nothing for him. I offered to reach out to this friend to see what's going on but he always said not to.

Anyway, he's cycling. I get it. But I'm starting a new job tomorrow. I'm dealing with a situation that involves people I've known my whole life. I feel betrayed too. His workplace is the church I attended my entire adult life.

Not sure I'm going to be really up to handling this in the best way.

And now he got a call from the district head basically telling him he wants him to stay. We're both extremely confused and H is ready to go through the roof.

[GaGrl]

I'm so sorry -- what a tricky situation. I'm unsure what to say, so I'll think a bit on it.

I will say this -- it's obvious that your husband's place of employment doesn't handle its human resources issues w ell. In larger and/or more corporate workplaces, there is no way that many people would be privy to a pending tetmination, whether it was due to performance issues, improper behavior in the workplace, or budget cuts. I can't say I could blame your H for resenting that this is buzzing through the office.

[Ozzie101]

Yeah, they don't. The church has been in turmoil for about a year, which doesn't help. Part of what upsets him is there's a personal connection.

[Ozzie101]

He's now brought up:
His ex-wife is more supportive than I am
I never stand up for him against my family (the crux of the issue -- I should have told them that they needed to really get onto their friends)
I can't admit that my parents aren't perfect
I turn everything around on him and put stress on him
I make everything his fault
I would leave him if he had no money
Intimated that he may dump me and get together with his ex

When I asked him not to mock me, he insisted that I do the same thing to him and did so this morning. Confused, I asked when? He said something that didn't make sense and then accused me of something else (common in a dysregulation when I ask him for clarification on something he can't back up).

I used the safe word and tried to leave and he tried to stop me. I told him I needed 30 minutes to cool off. He said maybe we should divorce, then kept repeating "It's on you not me" over and over. I slammed the door. Not a mature response and I'm not proud of it. But I'm really struggling.

[UBPDHelp]

Ozzie,

You’ve been so good to me on here. I am so sorry you’re going through this. Sending hugs your way!

Will watch your updates...

 

[GaGrl]

Based on what he is saying, he feels he is being hit at the core of his identity as a husband/man -- his ability to provide, why a wife would be with him/stay with him, etc. He is striking out in all directions.

It's all invalid.

Be careful not to validate the invalid.

What might be more challenging is to figure out how to get into his fear and feelings about losing the job and finding another (better, more suitable) position. Any ideas there?

Is your H better/more regulated when he is putting together a plan? Thinking step by step? Choosing options and alternatives?

Tomorrow he is going to walk in and have a conversation with someone. That person, representing a board with some power, wants to terminate his employment (for whatever reason). Your H isn't blissfully happy with the position and is exploring other options. I would think it would be most useful for him to go into the meeting prepared to discuss the severance agreement.

Termination effective date?
Number of weeks/months paid as severance?
Continuation of medical/life insurance/other benefits for how long?
Clear understanding on the reference given to figure employers?
Agreement (on both sides) not to disparage each other or employer?
Etc.
Etc.

Perhaps this can spur his Thinking side and move him off Feelings.

Later, you and I can readdress the blaming -- that is wearing you down.

Tomorrow is a business discussion -- help him keep it a business discussion.

The church, as employer, has done a shoddy job of HR.

[empath]

Oh, my! Church employment is so complicated even in the best of situations. It's difficult to navigate all the multiple roles.

[GaGrl]

Oh, my! Church employment is so complicated even in the best of situations. It's difficult to navigate all the multiple roles.

Agree!

U.S. law is that organizations employing fewer than 50 employees do not need to meet the more rigorous employment laws of larger orgs.

Still, there is an ethical (and moral) imperative to do the right thing.

Unfortunately, not all small companies and orgs follow the North Star.

I suspect that multiple steps in this situation should have been followed and documented, and were not.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you, UBPDHelp, GaGrl and empath. I appreciate the support.

I'm still not sure what's going on. But H hasn't had a review in 5 years (his boss -- the "big boss" didn't do it for the last few years -- but all before were glowing. He has no complaints or write-ups in his file.

Now he's saying his plan is to go in and quit. But he's not sure. I hope he doesn't.

He doesn't remember a lot of last night -- as usual. He sees it's a problem, but it keeps happening and I can't keep doing this forever. Also, when he spouts nonsense it's hard for me to know what to believe.

[formflier]

Yeah, they don't. The church has been in turmoil for about a year, which doesn't help. Part of what upsets him is there's a personal connection.

OK.  I didn't realize it was a church.  What does he do there?

I generally would tell people not to "personalize" there job.  I would say that even more so at the job.  Usually it's not about the employee but "vision" or "prayer" or "leading".

That being said, I'm not sure how you communicate this to him.

If the church has been in turmoil, then even more so that it's not about him.

Sorry..hang in there.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He's the administrator -- basically the COO/CFO.

No, it's not really about him. But it's hard for him not to be hurt. He used to like the job and the people. And since this was my church and some of these people are ones I've known as long as I can remember, I feel hurt too. I'm just better at keeping it rational.

[formflier]

 But I'm really struggling.

Please don't hear "blame", but do hear a call for responsibility.

Why did you decided to stick around to listen to all of that.  

Why not give him a choice in the first odd sentence.

"Babe...we've been over this issue before.  Do you have new information?"

blah blah blah

"I don't hear new information, so I'm taking a break."

If YOU allow too much of that in your head...doors get slammed.  Doesn't seem fair..but it's true and it works.

Best,

FF

[formflier]

He's the administrator -- basically the COO/CFO.

No, it's not really about him. But it's hard for him not to be hurt. He used to like the job and the people. And since this was my church and some of these people are ones I've known as long as I can remember, I feel hurt too. I'm just better at keeping it rational.

And what is their beef with him?

I've been a County Manager twice since I've retired.  Never again.  I love the job, but it's mainly about "politics and popularity".  The metrics of your job performance don't matter.

Again...I struggle to figure out if you should even try to tell him this.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Here's the issue:
The senior pastor basically had a melt-down last year. (H suspects he's bipolar.) verbally abusive to staff, etc. H kept pushing the personnel committee to do something.

End result: the pastor is retiring. A new one is being brought in. It's common for new pastors to want their own administrators since they basically run the church together. Also, this new person is more conservative than H and the outgoing person.

To top it off, the church has had major financial problems the last couple of years. Basically, people withholding pledges due to the pastor's politics, upheaval in the worldwide church organization, death, moving away, you name it. So, turmoil. And since H is at the top and the pastor is basically gone at this point, he's a great target. He'll be gone regardless. The person they're bringing in cleans house. (They're also going to pay him double what the old guy was making and really can't afford to. More craziness, really.)

When H and I talked, I said I'd do everything right. Be blameless. Be agreeable. Give them no excuse. The better he looks, the worse they'll look when they can him. His departure will cause chaos at this point. Let that be on them and then alone. But that was just my feeling.

[Cat Familiar]

Your advice is excellent. Whether he takes it, well...

Behaving in an honorable and upright way, in spite of an unjust termination would serve him well in finding his next job.

But can he hold in his emotional response?

[Ozzie101]

I really hope he can manage it and do the right thing. He usually does.

He says he needs to learn how to manage his emotions and I'm glad he recognizes that. It's a matter of him being able to learn how. And my being able to hold on when he dysregulates. He brought up divorce again multiple times last night. When we talked this morning, I reminded him of it and of what I've told him before: don't use the d word unless you really want it and mean it. It does damage. And, I said, you bring it up enough... He filled in "the other person might finally take you up on it."

Yep. I have no intention of getting a divorce. But the longer it goes on, the more my strength and resolve weaken.

[formflier]

So..it's very "normal" for new church leadership to "clean house". 

Better to rip off the band-aid and start fresh, rather than deal with it little by little.

So, if the new guy has a reputation for doing that.  Well...hopefully your hubby can see it's not about him.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Now is not the time to do this, with all the stress he’s feeling, but perhaps you can plan a strategy in advance for the next time he mentions divorce and mention it immediately afterwards.

I’ve gotten to a good place generally with my husband where we have almost zero conflict. Because of that, I can assert boundaries a bit more strongly.

We were cooking together (amazing! I know. Never would have believed it a couple of years ago) last night and I was tidying up while he was cutting up chicken. I grabbed a bag of scraps and started to take it to the trash outside.

He wasn’t finished with it and instead of saying, “Hey wait a minute...” he got angry and in a blaming voice said, “You always do that...”

I replied, “I don’t like being spoken to that way.” And he apologized. Hours later he apologized again, and I said “It’s forgotten,” and it really was for me.

I remember previously tolerating that sort of blaming with the nasty voice tone, and it gnawed at me, I felt anger. I was being blamed for something innocuous and he could so easily have politely asked instead of angrily blamed.

Now, calmly speaking my truth, I don’t accumulate resentment like I did previously.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Ozzie-

I’m really sorry you and your H are going through this difficult and real issue.  And the loss of a job is a real issue.  Lots of people tie a huge part of their identity to what they do for work, and if I recall, your H holds the thought that if he cannot financially support you, he’s a failure as a husband as well.  Perhaps that’s the reason he threw out the divorce threat last night.  In his mind, better he threatens YOU, than you figure out what a “failure” of a husband he is and walk out on him...

It doesn’t matter how many other times you’ve assured him.  His feelings are IN THE MOMENT.  All bad, all good.  Black and white thinking.

I know it hurts to hear that threat, deeply.  Please try not to bring it up right now when he’s in crisis over the job.  However, depending on how today plays out, he may throw the threat at you again.  You can validate his feeling vulnerable at this point, but strongly state that you’ve got confidence in his professional capabilities.  If he pushes divorce conversation, you can say that would break your heart and spirit to know he no longer wants to be with you, and you will discuss this with him another day, when he’s not upset about work.  Then tell him you love him and leave the room.

Loss of a job is never easy.  And REALLY hard for highly sensitive people.  Hugs to you, Ozzie.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Ozzie101]

Thank you all for the advice. It's very helpful.

I won't try to address things during such a difficult time.

It just seems like, lately, nearly every night is difficult. I'm getting back to the place where I dread going home each day.

[Gemsforeyes]

I understand.  You’re in a very difficult position.  Tonight, please take NOTHING he may say to heart.  Nothing.  He’s probably going to be tangled up, throwing in the kitchen sink, you, your entire family... just don’t bite.

I’m so sorry, dear girl.

Huge hugs to you.

Gems

[empath]

Transitions in pastors of churches are definitely difficult; that was the context for my marital breakdown. It's more than just a job as a church employee; it's like an extended family. I found losing that has been more difficult.

I remember spending hours letting my h vent about his church situation as he eventually became aware of the toxicity. I just supported and listened to him. It was a difficult time.

[formflier]

Did he get let go yesterday as he believed he would?

 

Please be extra kind to yourself!

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He didn't get let go. There was apparently a lot of confusion and misinformation. Some of the people he heard from are trusted, "in the know" sources so not idle gossip.

He's not sure if it was all wrong or if something happened to save him.

He gets conflicting reports on lots of things. Says he doesn't trust anyone right now. Now the incoming pastor is saying he's excited to work with H and wants H to go to lunch with him and his wife.

H feels like they're just trying to pacify him and use him because they need him for the transition. Maybe so. Maybe not.

Still says he doesn't trust my parents' friend(s) and feels like they should give a heads-up about things. I agree and disagree. Yes, a heads-up is good coveidering the relationship. But I also know personnel stuff his highly confidential and I'm not sure I'd fault people for following the rules.

I said if I were him, I'd take everything with a grain of salt, not let myself react emotionally to anything I hear unless it's official, do my job, give no reason or excuse for firing or reprimand and keep looking for a new job.

Thank you all! Can't tell you how much the advice and support help!

[GaGrl]

I think your best position on the parents' friend situation is the confidentiality aspect. From an HR standpoint, that has been the most troublesome issue in all of this. And I get it -- my father was a pay deacon and chaired the finance committee of the church I grew up attending (and that my mother still attends), and everyone is WAY involved in everyone else's business. I can't tell you how often my mom speculates on something, it not to have me say, "That may be, but it's none of our business." It does shut her down, for a while.

Church politics can be downright ugly.

[Ozzie101]

I would agree. Problem is, he won't buy that. He sees it all as personal and insists he would do it differently.

Honestly, I think a lot of it is tied to his insecurities with my family, his family, etc. If the friends don't break the rules, they're not good friends. And if my parents remain friends with them, it proves they don't care about him, wish I'd married someone else, no one ever takes his side. That's a pet phrase of his. Yet I know it has deep roots and, ultimately nothing will satisfy him because the wound is bigger and deeper than he knows or will acknowledge.

[formflier]

So...this may be a place where you want to draw a line on "hear say".

Since he works at a church, there is kinda some Biblical guidance on that. 

I get it that he won't like it, but hopefully you can end up "hearing" less of it.

Hang in there.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

He's really stuck on "these people (not just the friends) are bad people." He talked about that the other night -- that he tends to think in black and white -- all good/all bad. He sees that as a problem and wishes he could see more grey.

It's interesting how he has the self-awareness (when he's baseline) to see problems and target things he wants to change and work on. He just doesn't know how.

[I Am Redeemed]

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