Both Parents?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Dear BPD family,
Much therapy has led me to the conclusion that my parents suffer from some sort of disordered thinking. Even now in my 40’s, they repeat the same patterns of behaviour with examples of;
- denying facts, and changing the narrative of any problems where they or my sister are involved.
- long periods of silent treatment for me, wife and grandchildren now if they don’t like what you have to say or don’t play along with their plans.
- followed by not mentioning a thing and acting as if nothing happened and pouring on love, gifts etc.
- dividing my sister and I whenever possible. Saying one thing to me and another to her.

I’m pretty sure that my father is BPD, he is extremely sensitive to anything that could be construed as disrespect or not being responsive enough to his needs. E.g not calling him enough, quick enough after he called me or asking how he is. But always saying he is so busy when you try to plan something...
But my Mother is a mystery to me. We have a non relationship. Sure a kiss and pleasantries but nothing more. It’s odd, as I feel I have no idea who she is, and what she stands for in my life?

Anyway would be interested in any perspectives on the dynamics that could be in play here. My wife and I have had to receive therapy as they have gaslighted, attacked verbally and guilted us both. They have also praised, congratulated us and dine nice things. We never know where we are though one day to the next.

Many Thanks

[Ken Adams]

Dear BPD family,
Much therapy has led me to the conclusion that my parents suffer from some sort of disordered thinking. Even now in my 40’s, they repeat the same patterns of behaviour with examples of;
- denying facts, and changing the narrative of any problems where they or my sister are involved.
- long periods of silent treatment for me, wife and grandchildren now if they don’t like what you have to say or don’t play along with their plans.
- followed by not mentioning a thing and acting as if nothing happened and pouring on love, gifts etc.
- dividing my sister and I whenever possible. Saying one thing to me and another to her.

I’m pretty sure that my father is BPD, he is extremely sensitive to anything that could be construed as disrespect or not being responsive enough to his needs. E.g not calling him enough, quick enough after he called me or asking how he is. But always saying he is so busy when you try to plan something...
But my Mother is a mystery to me. We have a non relationship. Sure a kiss and pleasantries but nothing more. It’s odd, as I feel I have no idea who she is, and what she stands for in my life?

Anyway would be interested in any perspectives on the dynamics that could be in play here. My wife and I have had to receive therapy as they have gaslighted, attacked verbally and guilted us both. They have also praised, congratulated us and dine nice things. We never know where we are though one day to the next.

Many Thanks

[Ziggiddy]

Hi and welcome to the forum

It sounds like you and your wife and kids have been through a real struggle with your FOO.
It's painful and debilitating to be met with the silent treatment or altered narratives.
I can relate to the "You don't call me' but 'I don't have time for you' when you do. it's so frustrating as it feels like no matter what you do, you can't get it right.
That's an example of a push-pull behaviour.
There are articles which can elucidate  in the 'Tools' section above in the green bar
here is a link:
https://bpdfamily.com/portfolio-parent

also ideas for management in Tips:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=7.0#

When parents have BPD there is definitely a much different fmily dynamic than in other families. They are self focussed instead of other-focussed - this is impactful on children who are not treated in the normal way.
You have also mentioned that your dad would divide you and your sister at times. Can you give some examples of that?
You also mentioned events that led you into therapy - gaslighting and verbal attacks. They are really hard to cope with, even from people you don't know well let alone your parents.
Was there a specific event which decided you to get professional help?

It's a good thing to get support and assistance in this kind of situation especially as gaslighting can seriously affect your conviction in your reality. 
Ziggiddy

[zachira]

You have come to the right place. There are many members here who are in similar situations like yours with family members. I was raised by a mother with BPD and a father who enabled her. I have two siblings with BPD.
Disordered individuals often marry each other, and then enable each other so neither one has to face their challenges or change/grow in any way. Both my father and BIL did/do everything to keep the wife from blowing up, despite behind their backs the wife saying she wants a divorce.
You are wondering about your parents shifting behaviors: Sometimes they are nice to you and othertimes incredibly cruel to you. After many years of dealing with so many dysfunctional family members, I have concluded that the nice things are all about the person with BPD looking good to others and really having nothing to do with the person they are being nice to, in the same way that their mean behaviors have nothing to do with the person who is being mistreated.
What does your therapist say that is helpful and you feel comfortable sharing here?

[Notwendy]

While it would not be impossible that both your parents have BPD, a marriage between two pwBPD is not the most stable one. One common configuration is a marriage between a pwBPD and their co-dependent enabler. Both people in the relationship are disordered but they don't both have BPD. They are often enmeshed and have poor boundaries between them. The enabling partner is basically focused on the pwBPD's thoughts and feelings and can lose a sense of who they are. You may feel you have no idea who your mother is because she doesn't either. She's an extension of your father. These relationships while disordered can be stable as there isn't a conflict of wills in a marriage. It's all about the person with BPD. That doesn't make it a happy marriage, but one that can last.

In an emotionally healthy marriage, two entirely different people join to make a life together, yet they remain their own individual self. It would be impossible for two different people to agree on everything. Where there is conflict - they are able to discuss it and work it out. One spouse does not feel they have to give in and walk on eggshells to keep the peace.

With my parents, everything revolved around BPD mother's feelings, wishes, needs ( in the moment). My father was her enabler and they were enmeshed. BPD mom controlled his relationship with me and just about anything he did- but he went along with it. Over time, he began to sound just like her. They acted like one person. They shared an email address so anything sent to him was also read by her. If we spoke on the phone, she listened in. So while my father didn't have BPD, my mother, and her BPD behaiors, we an influence on him.

[TelHill]

Welcome to the group! 

Anything is possible. My mom is dBPD and displays all the symptoms except for being self-destructive (no addictions or suicide attempts).  My dad and brother aren’t emotionally dysregulated or rage.  They are painful to be around due to gaslighting, lying, acting passive aggressive, one-upmanship, lack of empathy for anyone besides themselves. 

My parents have done good things for me. It’s for material items only. It’s been an emotional desert.

Almost all of my extended family act like my brother & dad. It may be cultural (my family are immigrants from a rural, impoverished small town) or innate.

I go between NC and LC depending on the circumstances. I love my parents so I am LC due to their being elderly and needing help with doctor visits, bills, etc. I help and go to my own home. Am NC with my brother and the rest of my extended family. I neither like nor trust them.

I hope you continue to refine with your therapist a relationship with your parents that works for you, your wife & kids.

[Ken Adams]

Many thanks

Memories are a real problem for me, so trying to get a historic perspective on my parents is tricky. There are flashbacks but I’m not sure to trust them. I asked my Mother to write me a timeline of my childhood a few years back, I have reminded her several times, but she never does it.

Is she lost to me? Was she ever there? I truly cannot remember there being love, hugs etc I do remember being fearful and being told I am causing problems for my parents relationship. When I hug my mother now it is awkward and a little like hugging a statue.

My Father does all the communicating and it’s hard to reach her without him being involved.

[Ken Adams]

You have also mentioned that your dad would divide you and your sister at times. Can you give some examples of that?
You also mentioned events that led you into therapy - gaslighting and verbal attacks. They are really hard to cope with, even from people you don't know well let alone your parents.
Was there a specific event which decided you to get professional help?

There have been numerous things over the years. She is treated very differently to me. I used to think it was purely a son / daughter difference but now see it was And is just different.

She lived with them and I was sent away to boarding school.
Holidays were spent around her sporting endeavours.
She was given a flat, I had to buy my own.
Her children are looked after regularly and ours can go months without seeing them.

I have levelled with my sister but I am afraid she has similar issues as recently she raged on a night out and totally lost control. She then blamed my wife and I, persuading my parents that she had in some way been wronged. It was bizarre behaviour, and she even hit her boyfriend in the face for telling her to calm down.

It was like my Father seized a rare opportunity with this recent incident as he started to drop some poison into a conversation with me, saying that my sister thought I was not being supportive of her and my wife ignoring her. I confronted my sister and she denied saying any of this. Who to believe?

Anyway I entered therapy when the veil was lifted a few years ago. I stated to build a family home, which had been planned for well over a year. My father had told me that he wanted to gift an early inheritance, which became part of the finance to build. Well as you may now be guessing... a few weeks before building starts he tells me that he can no longer afford to give the money. He offers a much smaller amount, which anyone would be grateful for, but it leaves our finances and my family in turmoil.

The way this was done was no accident. It was premeditated, but it was as if he couldn’t see how much damage he had caused. I also had to be careful not to upset the situation as if all his finance was pulled we would not have a home at all. I had put every bit of our savings into the plot of land.

Somehow this amount of stress and him being the ultimate cause in such a reckless fashion, shifted something in me. I started to see everything with different eyes and I started  to get very

[Notwendy]

It isn't unusual for family members to have certain roles. One is the "golden child" - the one who can do no wrong, and the other is the "scapegoat" who the family projects the problems on to. This serves to stablize the family, particularly the pwBPD. If they can put all the blame on the scapegoat, then they aren't looking at themselves or their own issues.

While growing up it appears it would be better to be the GC, I will argue it is better to be the scapegoat. Neither role is good, but having no choice in the matter, I think it was better to be the scapegoat. Your task is to look at this from an adult standpoint and not take it personally. It had nothing to do with you. It is very hurtful- I know that-but you have to believe it is a result of your parents' issues and not you.

Unequal allegations of funds is a part of this. In my family, BPD mother controlled all the money, even though my father was the one who earned it. We did without certain things while she had the best of everything. When it came to college, I chose to attend a state college that I could pay for. This is because, I didn't trust they would consistently send money for tuition/books, etc. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't- or they might at the last minute. I didn't want to depend on them. Also, my mother controls people with money and I knew if I depended on my parents, she would use it as a control and manipulate me.  To me, college was my ticket to financial independence from them to not be subjected to my mother's control.

When it was time for GC to attend college, it had to be the best of everything. BPD parents don't see their children as independent but as extensions of themselves. Just as the scapegoat is the reflection of the parent's projections, the GC reflects the positive self image the parent seeks. It took the GC a lot longer to gain independence from our parents due to being enmeshed and controlled longer.

It was very hurtful to grow up with this unfair treatment, but through therapy I have learned that while neither role is good for a child, I feel that there were some valuable skills I learned early on. I learned to earn my own money - so that I didn't have to ask my parents- and I gained the pride from that. I recall saving for a nice pair of shoes in college, paying for them with my own money and feeling a sense of pride- I earned this- all by myself.  Although my mother has a closet full of nice shoes, these were the first "adult" pair I ever had.  You bought your own flat, it's yours! They bought your sister one- but she doesn't have the experience of really owning her own flat. You carried the responsibility for your children, she didn't. Basically you were able to become an adult with adult responsibilities. She has not completely achieved that.

[Ken Adams]

I’m definitely the scapegoat, but having been quite successful in my own life they take time out of scapegoating to bask in some credit they can find from me or my own family. It only takes some sort of problem in their lives to start again though and the same pattern of behaviour takes place.
It is hard to not take personally and get angry for my wife and I. I actually think it’s harder for my wife now. I can tend to roll my eyes now when the sudden vulnerable victim answers the phone, so hard done by and neglected... Laughable considering they are loaded and can do anything they want to do.
Do you know if it is likely to get worse as they age?
Also sorry to be a bit morbid, but I would also be interested what it’s like when either the disordered Father dies or the codependent goes first? I would rather be forearmed and health issues are looming for my Father.

[Notwendy]

My parents also claimed credit for my accomplishments.

It's not morbid to wonder. I have written many posts about the death of my father and how things went. You could probably search them. It's a lot to recall.

Having my father change from role of caretaker/enabler to actually needing care shook up the dynamics. In addition my mother had to be the recipient of the care and attention, not the giver. Not having done this before, she was not about to do it.

The shock for me was that she was so angry and felt like a victim that she actually abused my father when he was ill. It was a horrifying thing to see. When I tried to intervene she got angry at me and caused him to forsake his relationship with me. Although I was very attached to him, It was a shock to see that this relationship was dispensable to him

[Ken Adams]

That sounds terrible!
What a situation. Family members are meant to be there for each other during the bad times. It seems that problems are made through the tough times with disordered parents.
As if life wasn’t hard enough... it really can make me feel rather cheated.

[Notwendy]

We didn't choose this situation- but I think we can choose how we look at it.

Few parents are all good or all bad. There are also good things I can attribute to my parents. In addition, I don't think they did what they did with any mal intent. It was all they knew. These issues are often intergenerational-- they didn't just start with our parents. Our parents are a product of their parents- and on and on. If you feel cheated, consider that your parents did the best they knew to do-- because so did their parents.

Nobody chooses to have BPD. Whatever my mother has done- she herself is far more miserable and impaired by her BPD. I would not wish this on anyone. I wish I could change it for her but I can't. Hard to blame my father either. They didn't know anything about BPD in their time. He was a young man who was in love with his beautiful bride and surely it was painful for him to see her emotionally suffer. He tried what he could to help. Over time, it became a pattern to appease her.

We have a choice- to perpetuate or break the cycle and I choose to break the cycle, raise my children differently. Because I grew up with these kinds of patterns, they are second nature to me. Once I started to work on my own co-dependent tendencies, I could be more forgiving of my father's tendencies. We may not have a disorder but as children, we took on some patterns in order to "fit" in our family. We may not be aware of what they are since they are our "normal"- but I decided to work on them, change them, learn new ways so as not to take these patterns into my family.

We have the opportunity to make a change. That doesn't mean we don't grieve, be sad. It feels sad that I didn't have the love from my parents that I wish I had, but- sadly probably neither did they entirely either. However, my parents did care for my needs-we had clothes, food, a chance to go to school, and other opportunities. This is your past, and it is sad, but your future and your own family does not depend on what your parents do.