My Biggest Fear

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Hey friends!

Since most of us are at home these days, I thought I’d write out a post and ask for some advice on something that is really getting the better of me.

Before I start, my partner is undiagnosed and we both just learned about BPD late last year. I have ROCD (Relationship Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and have had it for many years (long before he came along!). Neither of us are in therapy and we can’t afford it, so I’m turning to this community for some help.

If you’ve never heard of it, ROCD is the overwhelming anxiety of being in the “wrong” relationship and needing to leave. It can be hell for any normal relationship, but definitely makes a BPD relationship SO much harder.

Ever since we started dating, I’ve had extreme anxiety over our relationship. Especially before I knew about BPD and I couldn’t explain some of his behaviour. I would ruminate for hours every day, sometimes getting so depressed and anxious that I couldn’t get out of bed. I became hyper vigilant about his behaviour and developed a huge fear of being manipulated and/or gaslighting.

When I finally learned about BPD, I saw how much more sense it all made. I was very relieved and finally had an answer! It eased my own anxieties a bit because I wasn’t in love with a “bad” person- just someone who developed some really challenging coping mechanisms throughout his life. I found so much more compassion and empathy and really have worked hard to change my reactions to things and not let my anxiety make our situations worse.

What feels challenging though is still this huge fear of manipulation and gaslighting. We’ve had a few conversations about it and I thought he knew how much it affected me. Our relationship is very joking and playful by nature, but sometimes he’ll do it to get a rise out of me. He knows how much it bothers me and thinks it’s fun to take things way too far. Ive noticed he only does this when his BPD is getting bad.

Lately it’s been really bad, with lots of dissociating and some splitting. It’s been a pretty high-tension time for us. Usually when he’s in these moods, he’ll purposely try to mess with my head and then has a good laugh and says “don’t worry, I’m just joking around and just messing with you. I would never actually manipulate you”. But then he does it again. He told me last night that he feels closest to me when we’re “bugging” each other. Except our versions of joking around are very different. I told him that it made me feel the opposite- I felt so disconnected from him when this happens. We finally ended the conversation because I was crying. Also, it was late and we weren’t getting anywhere but I still have a pit in my stomach the next day.

Sorry if none of this is making sense. It’s so hard to explain without examples but even the examples don’t make sense.

I don’t even know what I’m trying to ask. I perused the message boards on here and learned that BPDFamily doesn’t like the term “gaslighting” because there’s a bit of a difference when it applies to BPD. I know he’s not sitting at home pre-meditating how to manipulate me- it happens sometimes in the moment and like other people on here have said, it seems more like “rewriting history” to protect their feelings or to validate their versions of reality. I don’t think he knows when he’s doing it but it just makes me so, so friggen anxious. He knows how much it upsets me and still thinks it’s okay to joke around about it sometimes.

I’ve been trying to think how I can get a boundary around this. If I notice him doing it, do I say “stop”? We don’t live together so I can’t leave. Should I just hang up the phone and refuse to talk until he stops? If I don’t have such a strong emotional reaction, will he stop doing it because he knows it doesn’t get a rise out of me anymore?

Actually I think I found my answer with that last question...I just need to stop feeling so much fear around this and accept it for now.

Thanks for listening, as always! Hope everyone is safe and cozy

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[once removed]

I don’t even know what I’m trying to ask. I perused the message boards on here and learned that BPDFamily doesn’t like the term “gaslighting”

BPDFamily isnt the word police 

"gaslighting" is just a pop psych term (as opposed to a clinical one) with a million different definitions (if you google it, you will learn that your television is gaslighting you), when plain english is often best.

Our relationship is very joking and playful by nature, but sometimes he’ll do it to get a rise out of me. He knows how much it bothers me and thinks it’s fun to take things way too far.
...
Usually when he’s in these moods, he’ll purposely try to mess with my head and then has a good laugh and says “don’t worry, I’m just joking around and just messing with you. I would never actually manipulate you”. But then he does it again. He told me last night that he feels closest to me when we’re “bugging” each other. Except our versions of joking around are very different. I told him that it made me feel the opposite- I felt so disconnected from him when this happens
...
Sorry if none of this is making sense. It’s so hard to explain without examples but even the examples don’t make sense.

try some examples, even if they dont make sense. it will help.

there are lots of clues here. what they add up to, isnt necessarily clear.

i wonder if it isnt about the reaction hes seeking. what if - and i know its easier said than done - but what if he didnt get that reaction? what if whatever he was saying or doing blew right past you?

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Thanks for your reply, OnceRemoved!

Well, here’s one example from the other night. We had just gotten off the phone and he was playing around, again trying to bug me by sending me screenshots of our texts. Every time I would reply, he’d screenshot that and send it too. Just a little immature joke.

I was already pretty hypervigiliant from our earlier conversation and to be honest, I kind of freaked out when he was sending these screenshots just because it was weird and I didnt know what he was doing.

So I got all worked up and then finally called him and to be honest, sort of blew up at him. Not in an angry way just like a “what on earth are you doing and what does this mean? Why are you bombarding me with these messages?” type of way...

I said “stop trying to get in my head and mess with me.”

Then he said “I’m f*cking with your mind. you’re the one harassing me by calling me a bunch of times”

I said “oh I’M  harassing you now?”
He said “well you said it, not me”
I said “you JUST said I was harassing you”
And he said “no you did”. Then he basically told me that it was my fault because if I hadn’t gotten so upset, none of this would have happened. Then he said he just really missed me and felt far away from me (he’s been working out of town for 7 months).

That’s when I started crying because I was just SO anxious and so frustrated. He calmed right down when he heard me get emotional. He eventually apologized (sort of) and that’s when he said that he was just bugging me, he just wanted to feel closer to me and that all he wanted back was some banter from me.

We hung up the phone after that because it was getting late. He messaged me the next morning about something unrelated but acknowledged that he knew I was angry with him, and then said “you’re a sweetheart. Do you know that? You deserve more than I give you”.

I didn’t want to have another weird conversation so I just changed the subject to something else and we really haven’t spoken much since.


To answer your question about my reactions and responses, it’s honestly really hard to say. I didn’t know about the term “gaslighting” until late last year and that’s when I became extremely scared of it and aware. Before that, I know he would do similar things, always in a joking manner. When I get really anxious and upset about it and JADE (again, I didn’t know all these terms until a few months ago so I’m just banking on my memory) it usually gets worse, like the conversation you just read above. If I ignore it or just tell him to stop being an a$$, it usually stops right away and he doesn’t push farther. The problem is that it triggers my anxiety SO much that now I can’t ignore it or blow past it. It happens and my brain just screams at me and I can’t stop myself from pressing and pressing for answers.

Like I said, I really don’t think it’s a pre-meditated thing. I think sometimes it is intentional in the moment, whether he is trying to bug me or thinks he’s being funny or is trying to “rewrite history” to protect himself. I don’t know...

I did decide that the next time we spoke, I am going to set a strict boundary. I’m terrible with boundaries but it’s time. I’m going to calmly and firmly tell him that these two subjects (gaslighting and manipulation) are not to be joked about with me and that if it ever happens again, I am going to assume it’s intentional and I will either hang up the phone or leave his home (if we are hanging out in person). I have a whole speech planned out

[once removed]

He calmed right down when he heard me get emotional. He eventually apologized (sort of) and that’s when he said that he was just bugging me, he just wanted to feel closer to me and that all he wanted back was some banter from me.

i think he has given you a strong indication of why/when he does these things.

its when hes missing you and needs affection/attention. thats his way of trying to get it.

its not a way of going about it that you are comfortable with. understandably.

im not sure that your planned response is one hed be comfortable with, or is likely to improve your relationship. sometimes you have to up the ante with difficult people in your life...say "it" a bit louder. ive had to do that. most of the time, its not ideal. in the case of dealing with a highly sensitive person, its probably not ideal.

The problem is that it triggers my anxiety SO much that now I can’t ignore it or blow past it. It happens and my brain just screams at me and I can’t stop myself from pressing and pressing for answers.

this is a two way issue and its also a personal issue.

its an issue that he, ideally, ought to be more mindful of. that may happen, it may not.

its also an issue that ideally, you ought to be more mindful of.

when it comes to anxiety and reactions, mindfulness, and Wisemind are your friend: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

you can ignore it or blow past it, or stop yourself from pressing for answers. these arent constructive responses, they are anxious ones; i know them well, myself. when past romantic partners have gone distant on me, i tend to push harder to reconnect, and that has telegraphed neediness and pushed them away. it wouldnt serve me to say i cant help it, as much as i struggle with it. it would serve me to learn new responses.

hes trying to engage you, in his way. to be clear, you dont have to be comfortable with his way, whatsoever. the goal shouldnt be "suck it up". but the goal ought to be to change your response. when it happens, when youre upset, when youre triggered, take a step back. put the phone down. breathe. go for a walk, get away. post here. the goal should be not to engage when triggered.

likely, when you achieve that, you will have a better idea of how to approach it. maybe its to change the subject. maybe its to give him some witty retort. maybe its to do either/or, but also in times of calm to express that this just isnt your thing and you want to nip it in the bud.

its going to take some trial and error. but right now, the same reactions arent yielding new results.

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Thanks so much, OnceRemoved.

I’m glad I read that before I had that conversation with him. I guess sometimes I just feel very frustrated that I have to ignore or adjust my own needs to his BPD. Sometimes I just want to have an immature reaction and let my frustration out! Haha but I do completely agree with you- my default reactions aren’t helpful to the situation at all. I’ll keep working on it to stay calm and not press in the future.

Can you suggest an effective way to set a boundary in this kind of relationship or am I better off continuing to let him be him? I know I can’t change him and the only person I can hope to change is myself, but I don’t know how to ask for what I need with him in a way that he can hear.

Anyway, thanks again for your helpful advice and feedback!

[once removed]

I guess sometimes I just feel very frustrated that I have to ignore or adjust my own needs to his BPD.

we all have to do this with people in our lives. its part of human nature and human connection. its important to remember...we arent trying to walk on eggshells or sell ourselves out...we are trying to get along with difficult people.

Can you suggest an effective way to set a boundary in this kind of relationship or am I better off continuing to let him be him? I know I can’t change him and the only person I can hope to change is myself, but I don’t know how to ask for what I need with him in a way that he can hear.

its a mental and physical thing.

mentally, and in terms of mindfulness, id try to see things more from a third person point of view. id try to understand your own perspective, and his. id try to remember that he does this for the reasons he stated...hes, in his way, trying to connect. id also stand back and think about why what he says bothers you...not that theres anything wrong with the fact that it bothers you...just to better understand why. we all have triggers, and we all respond to them, sometimes in constructive ways, and sometimes not. the more we are all able to recognize our triggers, when we are triggered, and why we are triggered, the more constructively we can respond.

the first thing i would do when he says something that upsets you is put down the phone or the computer. unwind. go for a walk, whatever you need to do. thats how you start changing your response...dont respond from a triggered place. if he follows up on why you arent responding, resist the urge to respond until youre centered...just as if you couldnt otherwise respond because you were busy.

the point isnt to punish him or give him the silent treatment. the point is to step away until youre in a more constructive place.

at that point, how to respond is all trial and error, about you personally, and about your relationship. maybe you shake it off, and you say something clever, and that sparks something fun and sexy. maybe you change the subject. maybe you say sorry i had to step away, what you said really hurt. there isnt a right or wrong answer.

teasing can be fun and sexy. when someone i admire or have the hots for roasts me in a clever way, i love it. thats my experience with the opposite sex, too.

but we all have our lines, our limits, the things that arent fun and sexy, but just hurtful. and those things often need to be communicated.

while youre changing your responses, pick another time to communicate it. bring it up when you arent triggered, and in a time of calm. the point would be to get on the same page: you both like teasing, on some level, but certain things are off limits. invite him to also state his limits.

make sense?