HELP - I’ve unleashed the beast, so to speak part 7

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This is a continuation of a previous thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344125.0;all
I have a side question that I am hoping to get opinions on.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a separate account that has some money I put aside and a small amount I inherited.  It’s not a lot, but could be helpful if we split to kind of help for a month or two.

H knows about the account and a general idea of what is in there. Some of the inherited accounts were split with siblings and the balances weren’t known at the start. I’ve sort of avoided passing all of that info on to H. Mostly because I view the money as small security for my (our) future and he acts like it’s a better vacation.

It’s more complicated now by all the divorce threats and even the varying levels/types of abuse. I don’t trust him to not want to spend it all.

I am not asking legally, the lawyers would have to sort it out, but I’m wondering where on the morality/ethical scale of right and wrong am I by not divulging all the details to H.

Like I don’t feel the money would be “safe” with him and yet I feel guilt for not being completely honest. I don’t know if it is justified in this scenario OR if it makes it worse.

Just looking for honest opinions...thank you.

[UBPDHelp]

This is a continuation of a previous thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344125.0;all
I have a side question that I am hoping to get opinions on.

As I’ve mentioned, I have a separate account that has some money I put aside and a small amount I inherited.  It’s not a lot, but could be helpful if we split to kind of help for a month or two.

H knows about the account and a general idea of what is in there. Some of the inherited accounts were split with siblings and the balances weren’t known at the start. I’ve sort of avoided passing all of that info on to H. Mostly because I view the money as small security for my (our) future and he acts like it’s a better vacation.

It’s more complicated now by all the divorce threats and even the varying levels/types of abuse. I don’t trust him to not want to spend it all.

I am not asking legally, the lawyers would have to sort it out, but I’m wondering where on the morality/ethical scale of right and wrong am I by not divulging all the details to H.

Like I don’t feel the money would be “safe” with him and yet I feel guilt for not being completely honest. I don’t know if it is justified in this scenario OR if it makes it worse.

Just looking for honest opinions...thank you.

[UBPDHelp]

No reaction to big drama was wonderful!

You didn't close things up after him...he did it.  

Wow!  Very nice.

After this incident, do you think he is more or less likely to try it again?

Bless you!  Yes, I do get a small sense that he’s taking note that he can’t get a reaction out of me. Times are so weird, it’s hard to know if he’s just on another planet and off his game or if he’s sometimes reacting to me instead. But, hey, every extra moment of peace not getting caught up in the drama is a win in my book.

I’m going to do my best to not react.  I suspect he could get a bit grander with his baiting, but with enough not reacting, I think he may eventually stop. (He might also get bored with me if I’m not the recipient of his needed release. Interestingly, I have seen him cycle through family members. Didn’t realize what was happening for the first 20 years, but I have witnessed it with some clarity recently.)

Any recommendations on the rude comment?  Still just ignore?  

[formflier]

Accounts of inherited money.

Don't ever discuss or divulge any information whatsoever about that account with your husband

Ever

Furthermore

I would suggest you not ever remove money from that account to spend on "family" or "husband" without talking it through in great detail here.

Even if you make a deal.  I'll spend this and you'll spend that then you'll put this money back.

Does your husband keep his word about money?  Do you trust him about money?

Do I need to further clarify my answer to your very wise question?

Hmm..curious what others think...

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Yes, I do get a small sense that he’s taking note that he can’t get a reaction out of me. 

Build on this.

This is the road to go down!   Spend time and energy on going down this road!

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

Then he says “why are you here?”  I ignored it and he went along. But, this is where I don’t know that not reacting is the right approach?  I feel that he may just see it as reinforcement that it’s okay to speak to me that way. Thoughts?

an important element to dealing with verbal abuse like this is to be able to walk away, physically leave, and stay away until emotions calm.    that's not as possible during the pandemic.    I think recommendations change during this period of confinement.

remember physical and emotional safety come first.    you want to protect yourself from violence first.     verbal and physical violence.

Get physical distance if you are being devalued.   Even if it is just to get up and make yourself a cup of tea.   the action of getting up and going to do something nice for yourself... the cup of tea... is a message.      the five minute break of getting a cup of tea... speaks untold volumes.    none of them verbal.    It says 'I am in charge of where I go and when.'   It says 'I will do nice things for myself'.   It says 'I will come back when I am ready'.

if you must say something, make it an honest response to their distorted reality. Be in reality, don’t react, use your awareness to your advantage. When nothing works, say something like, “I understand why you feel the way you feel.”   "Sorry you feel this way."   "it's too bad you feel this way."    then walk away.

[babyducks]

I’m wondering where on the morality/ethical scale of right and wrong am I by not divulging all the details to H.

Like I don’t feel the money would be “safe” with him and yet I feel guilt for not being completely honest. I don’t know if it is justified in this scenario OR if it makes it worse.

you are allowed to have boundaries.    you are allowed to have personal private information that need not be shared.    you are allowed to have your own money, regardless what you use it for.

remember when we talk about projection a while ago?     remember how we talked about how all of us project?     it very much seems to me that he projects his bad behavior / negative characteristics on to you, and you project your good behavior /positive characteristics on to him.    Neither is accurate.   I would recommend you limit this.

He's stopped working.    He is giving every indication of walking away from his obligations.    He is not sharing information with you.  You are concerned that the small amount of money you have tucked away be shared fairly, and that you be completely honest.   See the dichotomy ?

Put your  (and the kids) first.

'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

Accounts of inherited money.

Don't ever discuss or divulge any information whatsoever about that account with your husband

Ever

Furthermore

I would suggest you not ever remove money from that account to spend on "family" or "husband" without talking it through in great detail here.

Even if you make a deal.  I'll spend this and you'll spend that then you'll put this money back.

Does your husband keep his word about money?  Do you trust him about money?

Do I need to further clarify my answer to your very wise question?

Hmm..curious what others think...

Thanks FF. I don’t want to tell him b/c I don’t trust him. I believe if he asks, he’ll see this as an insult and all hell will break loose.

 But, I also question if this is dishonest AND knowing I’ve avoided conversations around money recently b/c I didn’t want to listen to him rage at me, start to wonder if I’ve contributed to the dynamic.

For example, plumber comes. Guessing repair should be $300 but it’s more complicated and it’s closer to $800.  I move some bills around to absorb this and to avoid H’s rant. I tell H it’s more than we guessed but maybe tell him it’s $500-$600. Terrible, terrible, terrible.  But at the time I’m just protecting my stamina and emotion. I know this is wrong but feel (at least at the time) the need to protect myself. And, yes, in hindsight I see I’ve done the exact opposite — so am I part of the problem?

FYI, I didn’t always do this.

[UBPDHelp]

Build on this.

This is the road to go down!   Spend time and energy on going down this road!

It is more peaceful.  He does seem to take note. He’s also gotten more verbally loud with our son. Idk if it’s pandemic stress or if he’s not getting a reaction from me. I’ve told son to stay calm and not take the bait...not exactly this way but to this effect.

Thoughts if he’s possibly switching targets?

[UBPDHelp]

an important element to dealing with verbal abuse like this is to be able to walk away, physically leave, and stay away until emotions calm.    that's not as possible during the pandemic.    I think recommendations change during this period of confinement.

remember physical and emotional safety come first.    you want to protect yourself from violence first.     verbal and physical violence.

Get physical distance if you are being devalued.   Even if it is just to get up and make yourself a cup of tea.   the action of getting up and going to do something nice for yourself... the cup of tea... is a message.      the five minute break of getting a cup of tea... speaks untold volumes.    none of them verbal.    It says 'I am in charge of where I go and when.'   It says 'I will do nice things for myself'.   It says 'I will come back when I am ready'.

if you must say something, make it an honest response to their distorted reality. Be in reality, don’t react, use your awareness to your advantage. When nothing works, say something like, “I understand why you feel the way you feel.”   "Sorry you feel this way."   "it's too bad you feel this way."    then walk away.

Thanks BabyDucks.  This is helpful. I like the idea of a cup of tea and what it signals. That feels doable and helpful.

If I just leave, he’ll feel he won and it will reinforce this as a tool to control me.

I’m not great at controlling my words right now, but your suggestions are helpful for when things go back to normal. I feel so much underlying stress right now that I think my words would not help me.

Thank you for a wonderful response, exactly what I was looking for and with the right message.

[babyducks]

 But, I also question if this is dishonest AND knowing I’ve avoided conversations around money recently b/c I didn’t want to listen to him rage at me, start to wonder if I’ve contributed to the dynamic.

during this time of shelter in place I decided to learn a new language.  (no idea what I was thinking here   )

You are learning a new language too.  It's hard.      Hard to train our brains to think and recognize in new ways.    hard to break old patterns.  

You are doing an exceptional job sifting through this.    you are doing wonderful work.   in a highly stressful environment.    

all of us arrived here in crisis.    all of us grappled to understand these complex issues.     all of us made mistakes.    all of us made huge efforts to better things.

avoiding a rage until you better learn to cope with it,  and have the opportunity for safe escape is not contributing,    it's making the best decision you can with the situation you have.

my two cents
'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

you are allowed to have boundaries.    you are allowed to have personal private information that need not be shared.    you are allowed to have your own money, regardless what you use it for.

remember when we talk about projection a while ago?     remember how we talked about how all of us project?     it very much seems to me that he projects his bad behavior / negative characteristics on to you, and you project your good behavior /positive characteristics on to him.    Neither is accurate.   I would recommend you limit this.

He's stopped working.    He is giving every indication of walking away from his obligations.    He is not sharing information with you.  You are concerned that the small amount of money you have tucked away be shared fairly, and that you be completely honest.   See the dichotomy ?

Put your  (and the kids) first.

Okay, thank you. It’s what I wanted to do but just trying to sort where I may be contributing to the problem.

But, what is the best response if he asks?

The money in the account is meant for the future and I am unwilling to continue dipping into it to pay for extra expenses.  We need to find another way to address the current financial obligations. What do you think?

He’ll feel that we should use the money, it’s not his fault he can’t work (I know several people in his exact field who have continued working from home) and that it’s my time to step up financially.  If this money wasn’t there, what then?  And I’m still doing my household job and starting a new actual job in a couple of weeks.

Just spewing at this point.

Thank you for highlighting the dichotomy...no faith in my current ability to decipher my life.  

[UBPDHelp]

during this time of shelter in place I decided to learn a new language.  (no idea what I was thinking here   )

You are learning a new language too.  It's hard.      Hard to train our brains to think and recognize in new ways.    hard to break old patterns.  

You are doing an exceptional job sifting through this.    you are doing wonderful work.   in a highly stressful environment.    

all of us arrived here in crisis.    all of us grappled to understand these complex issues.     all of us made mistakes.    all of us made huge efforts to better things.

avoiding a rage until you better learn to cope with it,  and have the opportunity for safe escape is not contributing,    it's making the best decision you can with the situation you have.

Just an absolute huge  to you. Thank you!

[formflier]

  I don’t want to tell him b/c I don’t trust him. I believe if he asks, he’ll see this as an insult and all hell will break loose.
 

Why on earth would you ever answer this question..either way?

Also trying to figure out how us clarifying if you trust him in any way relates to telling him or telling him you do trust him.

Doe he ask?  If he did ask..what would you say in the moment (remember succinct!)

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Why on earth would you ever answer this question..either way?

Also trying to figure out how us clarifying if you trust him in any way relates to telling him or telling him you do trust him.

Doe he ask?  If he did ask..what would you say in the moment (remember succinct!)

I would answer b/c:

1. Our finances have always been commingled, so it feels “weird” and perhaps inflammatory to decide to carve this money out
2. Because refusing to tell him I believe will be inflammatory

The trust in question is trust that he is/would be responsible with money. That said, I’m realizing I don’t trust him with too much anymore. At the very least I have always trusted that he would do right by the kids. His current collapse and financial harms way has sunk that ship now too.

And, if I wasn’t clear, I don’t need help determining if I trust him.  I don’t. I’m not debating telling him that I don’t trust him. I’m not.

But, was trying to determine if not trusting him was proper justification for not divulging the info. I don’t want to give him the info.

If he asks, and I don’t give it to him, he will consider that a lie and that I’m challenging him. So, that’s where I am with:

The money in the account is meant for the future and I am unwilling to continue dipping into it to pay for extra expenses.  We need to find another way to address the current financial obligations. What do you think?

Is this inflammatory? Too long? Thoughts?

[babyducks]

The money in the account is meant for the future and I am unwilling to continue dipping into it to pay for extra expenses.  We There needs to be another way to address the current financial obligations. Until I get to work there needs to be another income stream.  What can you do to help?

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks BabyDucks...this is helpful.

[formflier]

In no particular order.

Way too long a prepared response.  The Babyducks edit is much better, I would challenge you to keep shortening..


I think I see a "point of view" that you need to revisit.

There seems to be a lot of energy put into "not inflaming him" or "not being inflammatory". 

If not being inflammatory leads to too many words, too much gymnastics and a muddled message/unclarity...drop it.

What if you said things in a healthy way and he becomes inflamed you give him space to deal with it.  Hmmm...what if we "stopped walking on eggshells"  (ooh...FF went there...bad FF...bad)

Listen he will become inflamed...so drop the goal of not inflaming.  Be mindful that you also don't want to needlessly inflame him.  (two ends of the spectrum...spend time thinking about what "the middle" looks like)

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

In no particular order.

Way too long a prepared response.  The Babyducks edit is much better, I would challenge you to keep shortening..


I think I see a "point of view" that you need to revisit.

There seems to be a lot of energy put into "not inflaming him" or "not being inflammatory". 

If not being inflammatory leads to too many words, too much gymnastics and a muddled message/unclarity...drop it.

Entirely. I’m sure this is 99% why I’m exhausted and can’t form a complete thought. And why I ramble...ramble...and then ramble some more. Deep breath. Trying.

What if you said things in a healthy way and he becomes inflamed you give him space to deal with it.  Hmmm...what if we "stopped walking on eggshells"  (ooh...FF went there...bad FF...bad)

Stop Walking on Eggshells is how I got here. I searched for wtf (sorry) was happening, found that book and was like, aha!  Due respect.

Listen he will become inflamed...so drop the goal of not inflaming.  Be mindful that you also don't want to needlessly inflame him.  (two ends of the spectrum...spend time thinking about what "the middle" looks like)

Agree.  And, some of the need to avoid is b/c his attacks become so personal. 

I think my main goals are:

1. Establish and maintain 2-3 boundaries (one is clear, others coming into focus)
2. Not take the bait. Any bait, any time. Try really hard.
3. Keep responses short and succinct. Be prepared to walk away.

Think I have a few more. Some if I stay (so very unlikely) and some if I go. Trying to pull those together.

LMK thoughts on goals — enough, achievable, chance to effect change.

Thanks FF, for helping me see a clearer picture and calling me out on my own bs...and finding a reality. Appreciated.

I have a story when I have more time...

[formflier]

  And, some of the need to avoid is b/c his attacks become so personal. 
 

Good stuff to work on boundaries.

Make sure you focus on this one. 

1.  Should you do "gymnastics" so he won't do a personal attack?   Noo!

2.  Should you have a boundary/plan of enforcing the boundary for when he uses the "tool" of personal attack?

Yessssssssss!

For now I want to avoid nuance on this point.  Keep mulling over 1 and 2.  More importantly think about "why" one is a "no" and one is a "yes".

When you think you have it...please share.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Good stuff to work on boundaries.

Make sure you focus on this one. 

1.  Should you do "gymnastics" so he won't do a personal attack?   Noo!

2.  Should you have a boundary/plan of enforcing the boundary for when he uses the "tool" of personal attack?

Yessssssssss!

For now I want to avoid nuance on this point.  Keep mulling over 1 and 2.  More importantly think about "why" one is a "no" and one is a "yes".

When you think you have it...please share.

It helps to focus on just a handful of goals, preferably the best most likely to offer a reprieve for me.

So, first I get some relief by recognizing that I will never avoid his triggers.  So stop trying so hard to “fix” things so he doesn’t get mad.

And then knowing that I’m going to have a fair share of setting him off, have established boundary(ies) for when this happens.

Specifically I will not listen to rants insulting my past. I will not be called names. For minor insults/comments, I will do as BabyDucks suggested and walk away and grab some tea for my return. I will avoid getting baited into crazy circular conversations.

I have some specific criteria but also see how I can apply to a more generic model — if this, then that. I need a simple formula.

Am I close to getting this?

While you mull that, here’s my story.

When H gets up today he sees the neighbors are doing work in their yard. We are fairly spread out for in town with houses on about 2 acre plots. They have workers over there, no one is wearing masks or anything and they’re all in a small circle talking. H is incensed. I agree that they are not following social distancing.  We are under orders of no more than groups of 5 people AND mandatory masks outside of house (much like most places), so they are breaking this. We’re not going out for a while so I’m not sure how upset to be. Annoyed? Yes, but beyond, not sure.

Anyway, he is walking between windows to watch them and keeps complaining. I agree again and then ask him what he wants to do about it (and silently pray he’ll just let it go).  He tells me to call the town. I decline. He doesn’t even seem to get upset with me (surprise), BUT he does bounce between the windows watching them and commenting that they’re going to kill us all for a solid two hours until the workers left. I just sat doing my daily agenda. I’m sure he was totally stupefied. But, I said my contribution and moved about my business. It was 50% more peaceful (he was still moaning around me for 2 hours).  And yes, I could have left, but that would have meant he passively controlled me and I don’t want to be run off on manageable behavior, especially behavior not directed at me.  But, I did not engage or discuss past the first comments. Felt more win to me.

Thanks for your help!

[UBPDHelp]

Just a quick update. Things have been so so the last few days.

Haven’t had rages about my past recently. Suspect more likely that b/c he can’t flee, he’s laid off on this. Know it’s possible he has learned I have this boundary, but he still shows little respect for me that I doubt it’s the case. But, either way, I appreciate not listening to it. And idk if it’s good he can control it (like maybe he learns a skill?) or it it’s just bottled up and going to explode at some point.

I’ve stopped doing some caretaking, little things, and let him fend for himself. He has wrong beliefs (he pays for everything). I don’t know how to correct that and so I state my side and then move on.

He masterfully baits me in front of the kids with little jabs. I do my best to ignore. The truth of it is, it doesn’t matter what he thinks or says if I don’t give it weight.

He’s confusing because he talks about the future and things we’ll do but then belittles me (or tries to). 

We had a minor blip last night and he got annoyed with me. I corrected his interpretation — he placed intent behind my actions but when I explained what actually happened, he seemed to understand and actually became helpful.

The sad part is I feel if he would stop criticizing me and making insulting remarks, he would get what he wants from me.  He gets all the usual wife/partner things, but I don’t feel close to him after all this time of his really bad behavior that we just don’t have sex. He wants to all the time, which is also confusing because of the way he treats me. And, I’d get a more supportive and tolerant husband if I gave him what he wants.

I say here — the breaking things is intolerable. Part of me believes if he wasn’t so pent up, he wouldn’t do this. No excuses, he can get there, but until this recent episode I haven’t seen this behavior in years, like a lot of years. Temper, yes. So this is a deal breaker but I do wonder if his coping skills weren’t so defunct and if we didn’t get to this bad point, it wouldn’t have happened. Like the perfect storm. And then I wonder if that even matters.

So, in the past, I’ve recognized that he needs sex to feel close (normal part of r/s) and so even with mild turmoil, I’ve rallied to maintain that connection. He’s a hypocrisy filled creature — doesn’t want to plan (4 busy kids, gotta do some coordinating), but if an opportunity is missed (in his eyes) he reverts to being annoyed. He stays up much later than I do (and I don’t go to bed all that early) and refuses to adjust to make time.

I guess I can see the issues here, but can’t be the only one willing to do something about it and feel like it’s a moving target.

Any suggestions how to bridge this? If I am the one to maintain the r/s despite feeling diminished, I feel even more so.  Is this normal? Small price to pay for peace?  Way to reset this dynamic?

The times that he’s fun and can be considerate, etc., I have hope if we could just find a way to stay there. But, as we all know, I am becoming too exhausted to be the only one making the effort to stay there.

Have a quick meeting with a financial person about some money issues early this week. Waiting for secretary at first law firm to give me appointment options.  He is supposedly a good high conflict divorce attorney, but is only working part time with shut down. I requested early morning so I could hopefully get an hour without hiding from H. Hopefully we can get to it this week.

I don’t know where to start with questions or how much to divulge. New thread for help?

[formflier]

He masterfully baits me in front of the kids with little jabs. I do my best to ignore. The truth of it is, it doesn’t matter what he thinks or says if I don’t give it weight.

Can you give us a couple examples of this?

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Can you give us a couple examples of this?

Hi FF,

Let me start by saying “masterful” was not meant to depict how cunning or calculated he is.  It was really the feeling I get b/c he says something in front of the kids that I don’t refute b/c I won’t escalate with them there. And, the bait in these cases is fairly inconsequential.  It may not even truly be bait, because he’s mostly just trying to shock me to be quiet rather than get me to do something or start an argument.

Example.  At dinner last night we were all having a conversation about an actor who told a self deprecating story. H was relaying the story and got to the punchline and basically told it wrong. He used the wrong info which meant the gag was either this or that, both their own set of funny, I suppose, but it was confusing (not just me), so I asked for clarification — oh, did he mean x?

To which H replied that I was being autistic again.

I don’t know how to respond to this.  

Things I’ve been called or terms to describe my actions — autistic, hillbilly, retarded, idiot, moronic.

It’s just rude.  It’s not all the time, but when he gets the sense there’s any kind of pushback on what he’s selling. And, I have been ever so mindful to not take up issues that are of no consequence.

Happy to share other stories or clarify. Thanks.

[formflier]

To which H replied that I was being autistic again.

I don’t know how to respond to this.  
 

Hmmm...well.  Let me give an example of how I has responded and please give it a lot of thought before you attempt such a response.

I will say that the "best" way for right now is likely to ignore it and move along as if it never happened.

I've handled things like this by directly asking how they intended me to experience the comment. 

That usually puzzled my wife so I would further clarify that I was curious if it was a compliment or a complaint.  (asked very neutrally)

I've also thanked her for the compliment when it was clear the "jab" was intended to hurt. 

She seems to value an audience but also values their opinion of her.  Sometimes this has prompted her to "clarify" into a nicer comment.  Sometimes it has poured gas on the fire.

Again...since you are "stuck" in the house with him, I think the great good (for now) lies in YOU having thick skin and doing what you can to keep the temperature low.

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

Example.  At dinner last night we were all having a conversation about an actor who told a self deprecating story. H was relaying the story and got to the punchline and basically told it wrong. He used the wrong info which meant the gag was either this or that, both their own set of funny, I suppose, but it was confusing (not just me), so I asked for clarification — oh, did he mean x?

To which H replied that I was being autistic again.

let's take a minute to look at what he is doing here.    as you have expressed to us, your H has a strong element of narcissism.  At the heart of any narcissist, deep down, is insecurity, and fear of exposure and humiliation. They see enemies in all disagreements. Cannot admit to the slightest imperfection.  He has to reject the idea that he told the story wrong or incorrectly.    He has to project the failure/fault onto you.

make sense?

if you 'pick up' the argument.    "I've told you a hundred times I am not autistic"   he gets something out of that... a distraction,    a place to dump his anger "She's such a hillbilly, she can't even recognize it."

It continues that better than / worse than argument we talked about up stream.

90 percent of all arguments with a BP/NP are about who is the better person, who is the worse person,   who is more deserving, who is less deserving.

She seems to value an audience but also values their opinion of her.  Sometimes this has prompted her to "clarify" into a nicer comment.  Sometimes it has poured gas on the fire.

It's no accident that these comments are coming in front of the children.   he is getting something from this.   in his (distorted) thinking he is proving he is the better person.

the (very high level) way to blunt this is to turn the argument back against him.    this is hard to do.    in my opinion it's advanced communications skills.     let's talk it through.

To which H replied that I was being autistic again.

"Oh, you sound so silly when you misuse that term."   said mildly and walk away.

You haven't picked up the bait.    You aren't defending yourself or explaining about the actor.    You've handed the shame/blame/fault/failure back to him.     He isn't getting anything out of dumping his negative emotions on you.   He now looks more foolish than when he started.     

Make sense?

Yes he will erupt.    His 'payoff' isn't working for him so he will double down.   "you are such a moron blah blah blah"   this is why you have walked away.   You smile and keep going.     this isn't an argument.    it's a redirection of his negativity back at him.     

while the pandemic and shelter in place is going on,   you want to carefully work through any new ideas until you are comfortable and confident in them.    it's always safety first.

what do you think?

'ducks

[formflier]

Something "I've picked up" from this thread.

The "lens" of who is the better person. 

My typical thought process is to "depersonalize" something and focus on the issue.  This works well for me, yet also plays into the BPD/NPD "playbook" in "hooking me" into an argument.

If one of the early "lenses" I use is  the "good person/bad person" lens, it changes my thought process and usually leads to me not responding.

Anyway...I want to double down on the "think things through" before attempting this recommendation.  A close cousin to "thinking through" is a large sense of "inner peace".  That he can say you are a (hillbilly or fill in the blank) and you don't get an internal response.

That makes the times you do get an internal response really "stand out" at which time you can sort through what it's really all about.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks FF,

Just wanted to say a few things.  I am totally offended by the way he can flail these words about. I don’t label other people about anything.  I find value mostly in kindness and compassion and ingenuity and curiousness and embracing how God made us.  We were all put here for a reason and offer amazing things to those willing to see and accept these things.

And, yet we both grew up in a time when these labels were placed on people and were used freely.

So, my point is that these “labels” are not negatives in my opinion.  I grew up with family friends whose oldest daughter was mentally challenged. I had more fun with her than a lot of other people and she appreciated when we taught her how to use makeup and curl her hair, etc. And was so joyful...that gave me immense happiness and enjoyment to be around her.  Our nephew is autistic and is the most endearing, curious, sweet kid you have ever met and brings so much happiness and joy to our lives.

But, H definitely is trying to insult. He read about autism somewhere and grabbed some traits and applies them to everyone around him. I wish he’d grab a mirror and take a long, hard look into it, but it’s so much easier to attempt to diminish others.

Anyway, I’ve told him he shouldn’t throw these things around. I’m sure it gave it more power. I do have thick skin but hate that he tries to spin this derogatory in front of the kids. Honestly, the three oldest see right through it now and my youngest isn’t quite aware of the “off” behavior. But, I see that coming in the next year or so.

Interesting...I have done exactly that — said thank you.  And it has confused the he! out of him. But then he pesters me for why I would say thank you.

And, really the biggest dynamic I’m trying to address isn’t my feelings (what are those?), but teaching my children that it’s not okay to bully others. Maybe it doesn’t matter as I’ve said my oldest understand he’s got something wrong with him and for now my youngest is unaware.

And, agree that trying not to escalate is best for now.

Thanks for your input.

[Cat Familiar]

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