Letting all out

[hopeandbelief]

Hey everyone! I've been around the board for almost two months now, but finally decided to write. It's been a tough journey and a short one in comparison with many of the stories around here, but the pain has been just as big.

I'll try to be brief and I desperately hope to hear some positive words back since I really need some of those right now. Sorry for any gramar typos since english is not my first language and thanks in advance for any help and support.

The story with my BPDEx began last year when I met her as she lives in my apartment condominium. Things looked good and I was crazy about her, but in only one week we got into a fight because she was jealous of some other girl (just an acquaintance I was talking to) and we soon broke up. She was already going to a student exchange program for 6 months in the following month, so there was little hope anyways for us to have a relationship at that time, but I suffered a lot with how suddendly things ended. I sent her a good-bye gift just for us to be on good terms a few days before she left and she thanked me a lot about the gift and I thought things were fine again and I was happy to leave it like that.

We didn't spoke to each other not even once during the time she was abroad but once she came back, she sent me a text and soon we got together again. She apologized for her behaviour and said she knows she acts like that towards other people often with no reason at all and that's a form of self defense she has. I thought it was a chance of redemption and I was so glad to have that second chance with her. Things were absolutely amazing during most of the few months we were together, but I soon started to notice the red flags so many of the members of this board also notice. I knew she wasn't like any other person I knew, but I liked her so much I tried to live with it and find the best solution for both of us all the time. Walking on eggshels almost all the time, of course.

Then it came the breakup. It was absolutely devastating. I was having a second chance, things were looking perfect and then she wanted to breakup talking about reasons I never understood to this day. A week before the breakup she started to devalue me and barely answer text messages and I thought it was so, so weird. She was always the one to text me 24h a day, and was usually angry/sad when it took me more than two hours to answer her. That's when I finally started to research about what could be wrong with her and I finally met those three sad letters...BPD.

I had less than one week to research about the disorder and I don't think I did a good job at the breakup. The worst part is that the main reason she gave me to breakup was that she felt I didn't liked her as much as she did. That obviously made me so guilt and to start thinking about all the things I could have done differently. I know for a while I have co-dependent traits but that didn't help me at the time at all. I cried in front of her and asked many times if there was nothing we could do to try again, but her decision was final.

A week after the breakup we met for her to give back some of my stuff that was at her place and we agreed to talk a bit. I was still a mess and trying to understand both the disorder and the reasons of the breakup better. I tried to have a decent talk with her, asked a few questions that I had about our relationship and told her I was still devastated. She got a little upset with everything and I could see she wasn't looking at me the same way she used to. My hopes were shattered and things only got worse. Once I got home she sent me a message saying I was throwing all my pain at her and that she was very hurt and that she expected a lot more of me. I couldn't understand and we ended up talking a bit more on the phone but she was so incredibly upset that I thought it was better to let things calm down and talk some other time. I didn't agree with her accusations of me being attacking her with my pain at all, but once again I was feeling super guilty.

We didn't talk for a while and then I tried to invite her to talk to me two more times but she declined both, saying she was too busy and that I could talk to her on Whatsapp for anything I needed. I said I wanted to talk in person since we live in the same place but she couldn't agree with this idea.

I let go and was trying to heal myself for a while, but then it came isolation due to COVID-19. Me and some of my friends are still seeing each other here in the common areas of where we live since all of our families are staying home for more than 20 days already. My ex knows some of them but is not exactly friends with them. However, I think due to the situation and that everybody is staying home, she and her best friend are gathering with us almost everyday and it's been really hard seeing her all the time. She behaves normally with everyone else, but she literally can't look at me in the eyes. I wanted to respect her decision so we end up barely speaking to each other besides "hey" and "good-bye", and it's really unconfortable.

A few days after this situation began, she sent me a text and my heart was hopeful it could be something good. However, she was just questioning why was I treating her like she didn't exist and that she thought it was disrespectful of my part. I said I was a bit awkard because I still have feelings for her and because I want to respect her space and decisions. The following day I tried to look a bit more at her and hear with attention when she speaks, and she told me things were better.

Another few days have passed and I decided to reach out and offer her to help with a favor she said she needed the day before. She declained it while being polite and I thought things could get better once again. However, she sent me another text saying she still felt I wanted to talk to her and was making conversation with her for a reason. I said I do still want to talk to her but I respect her decision to not talk to me in person and that she has all the time that she wants. We ended up talking some more and she said she is a bit afraid to talk to me because of the day I hurt her so bad when throwing all my pain at her and that she doesn't feel safe anymore with me. I thought it was an improvement because she finally gave me her real reasons of not wanting to talk to me and I said I would do anything to get her confidence  back and wait as long as she needs. She said she doesn't think that's happening and she doesn't even see a point of that happening and once again my hopes went down. In the end she made herself very clear once again that she won't meet me in person because she is afraid we can't control our feelings and through the cellphone she can control things better.

We're still seeing each other almost everyday and it hurts so badly to not talk to her properly. I read SO much here in the board about BPD and I bought three books about the disorder and I do think I understand BPD a lot better than when we broke up, despite still not being sure I can completely deal with all the roller coaster of emotions.

I do think I want her back even knowing the BPD side is a part of her and a part that's incredibly difficult to be dealt with. I find myself more and more desperate because I know once quarantine is over she is probably going out with her friends and will quickly find someone new to idealize and this will wreck me even more.

Thankfully I'm seeing a therapist that it's helping me a lot and is keeping my hopes down and trying to make me think about my own issues. However, it's incredibly difficult to let go and not want another chance with her. I don't know when and if I should make another try of talking to her, or if I should try to say everything I feel through the cellphone or if I shouldn't do anything at all.

I know I need to work on myself to be better prepared for future relationships and even for her if she ever comes back, but as the situation is right now, I feel like everyday that I don't do anything is a day closer to lose her and that is not a good feeling.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Naughty Nibbler]

hopeandbelief:

Congrats on going to therapy.  It's a good time to work on yourself and let some time pass.  Probably best to be polite & let her take the lead regarding any possible future romantic relationship (if you end up seeing that as a healthy option for you).

I soon started to notice the red flags so many of the members of this board also notice . . .

In only one week we got into a fight because she was jealous of some other girl (just an acquaintance I was talking to) . . .

the main reason she gave me to breakup was that she felt I didn't like her as much as she did. . .

That obviously made me so guilty and to start thinking about all the things I could have done differently. . .

As you mention, your red flags are similar to the ones that others have seen & refused to take seriously early on. I like to be honest & not beat around the bush.  You can't fix her.  There is nothing to be guilty about.  You will usually be blamed for anything & everything.  It will never be enough.

When someone shows signs of jealousy early on, it's usually a sign of things to come. Many people end up in a situation that their partner ends up being so jealous that they become estranged from all family & friends.

If a person can't recognize they have issues and/or have a desire to work on them, the thing you can count on is that they won't change & things will generally repeat & escalate.

[hopeandbelief]

Hey Naughty Nibbler, thanks for spending some time reading my story and replying to it.

It's been a really hard part of the proccess trying to understand that I shouldn't be feeling guilty. Somehow it's quite easy to fall for her narrative and believe everything she says is the truth.

My BPD ex partner recognizes she has trouble both with her family (especially her father) and with romantic relationships and is also going to therapy. I really, really hope it can help her on a short or long term, even if I'm not part of her future but I can't help to have hopes that therapy may "save" her and bring us together once more. Not sure if it is realistic or just a dream, but as of right now, almost two months after we broke up, I still can't let those thoughts go.

I'd really appreciate some more feedback from other members here on the board. Thanks!

[once removed]

hi hopeandbelief, and

there are a lot of dos and donts when it comes to trying to reverse a breakup.

a big one is dont over pursue.

im the king of over pursuing  . ive done it a lot in my day. and in my experience, it has landed me in awkward situations like these.

over pursuing can mean a lot of things, in a lot of contexts.

your ex is speaking to some of it when she says she feels like you threw your pain at her. please understand, its not that you did a bad thing. its that, from her perspective, in her position, she wasnt sure what to do with/about it, and it may have made her feel resentful. it sounds like she still does, its a sticking point.

the key to reversing a breakup is to reattract the object of your affections. how do you do that? generally, by getting back to the confident, upbeat guy she fell for in the first place.

you may be overcompensating a bit, overreacting to what she says, trying to shape yourself into what you think she wants. in simple terms, she says shes not happy with something, you go overboard in trying to make things better, trying to make her comfortable, trying to fix things.

its okay for things to be uncomfortable. its okay for her to not like how things are between the two of you. that is almost always the case, between exes who are trying to navigate a new normal, and trying to get along.

dont get me wrong - you dont want to be outright dismissive of these things, but neither do you want to twist yourself into knots trying to fix them. doing so doesnt come from a place of confidence.

do less, is my point. does that make sense?

[hopeandbelief]

hi hopeandbelief, and

Thanks for the warm welcome once removed and for taking some time to read and reply to me. Honestly, as I was pretty nervous with the recent events, I would really like some more thoughts and opinions about my situation, but I understand there are a lot of threads and topics going on. I'm not even sure if I made that clear my partner probably has BPD (I know we should not diagnose them ourselves but it really was a difficult situation and she fits perfectly on most of the BPD signs).

there are a lot of dos and donts when it comes to trying to reverse a breakup.

a big one is dont over pursue.

im the king of over pursuing  . ive done it a lot in my day. and in my experience, it has landed me in awkward situations like these.

over pursuing can mean a lot of things, in a lot of contexts.

Yeah, I have given up for now of trying to make a friendly contact or to try to seat and talk to her. It looks like I trigger her too much as of now and she just can't act or think properly. It's sad because our last interaction was this one she felt I threw all my pain at her and it leaves me with so many regrets, even though I know I only asked honestly questions about our break-up.

the key to reversing a breakup is to reattract the object of your affections. how do you do that? generally, by getting back to the confident, upbeat guy she fell for in the first place.

you may be overcompensating a bit, overreacting to what she says, trying to shape yourself into what you think she wants. in simple terms, she says shes not happy with something, you go overboard in trying to make things better, trying to make her comfortable, trying to fix things.

its okay for things to be uncomfortable. its okay for her to not like how things are between the two of you. that is almost always the case, between exes who are trying to navigate a new normal, and trying to get along.

We're still seeing each other with our group of friends constantly and I'm trying to act more as my trueself and not worry about her (she still won't talk to me even in a group conversation - very uncomfortable). Detaching is incredibly tough but I feel it gets a little bit easier with everyday that goes by.

dont get me wrong - you dont want to be outright dismissive of these things, but neither do you want to twist yourself into knots trying to fix them. doing so doesnt come from a place of confidence.

do less, is my point. does that make sense?

It does make sense and it was a good advice. I just don't know why even after telling me she doesn't feel confortable talking to me or meeting me, she would still message me. Recently we rescued a dog for the street near our apartment complex and even though her best friend helped us and was completely updated on the dog situation (we found someone to adopt him!), she message me asking about it. I answered her as kindly as I could about the situation and she replied with an "OK", and that was it. It doesn't make me angry or something like that, but it confuses me a little bit and it always give me what I think it is (at least for now) false hope of reconnecting.

At the same time I've found out she is idealizing another man from our apartment complex (he has a girlfriend though, otherwise I think she would be already with him, sadly) so it makes my hopes even smaller.

Just wanted to update everything and write some of my thoughts as I find it really helpful. The last few days have been tough as I've started to think about her a lot more again.

One of the things that makes me so sad and unhappy with myself right now is the fact that most of the threads around here are about long relationships (5, 10, 15, 20 years) and I could only be with her for two months. How can I be so damaged by such a short relationship and why couldn't I be with her for a longer time? I know sometimes it hurts even more when someone shows the BPD transformation after a long time and I may sound even a little selfish, but I like her so much and I really wish I could have had the chance to spend some more time with her.

Thanks again for anyone taking some time to read and reply!

[AnAwkwardGeek]

One of the things that makes me so sad and unhappy with myself right now is the fact that most of the threads around here are about long relationships (5, 10, 15, 20 years) and I could only be with her for two months. How can I be so damaged by such a short relationship and why couldn't I be with her for a longer time? I know sometimes it hurts even more when someone shows the BPD transformation after a long time and I may sound even a little selfish, but I like her so much and I really wish I could have had the chance to spend some more time with her.

I feel ya there.  I was only with mine for 2 days.  Take solace in the fact that she hasn't been avoiding hanging out in common areas and still says hello/goodbye despite her otherwise going no-contact.

[hopeandbelief]

Just a update to let things out again since I've been in a rough path those last few days. We're still in quarantine over here so I'm basically only seeing the same group of 6, 7 people that all live here in our complex.

My relationship with my ex improved a lot and we can keep conversations even when we meet just the two of us by accident or because we're waiting the rest of the group. Sometimes, however, I still feel like I'm painted super black, especially when we're all together to play card or board games. It feels like everything I do is to prejudice her chances while she's cool with everyone else doing the exactly same moves. She even lost her temper once, and as childish as it sounds, it's tough to hear when she says I'm evil and that I only want bad things for her when it's actually completely the opposite!

Since I'm now fully aware of BPD I can calm myself on those moments and not react in front of our other friends. Sometimes she loses so much that she curses me but I'm quite good of remaining calm and trying to keep things light and fun.

The problem, however, is that I think she is together with one of our other friends. She dated him very briefly in the past, before we dated, but this friend told me they don't match and that he wouldn't want her as a girlfriend since she is too complicated and sometimes annoying and that he doesn't feel a thing for her. I addmited I still had feelings for her and everything was ok between us.

She is charming him for a few weeks now and I was cool about it because of the things he told me, that he had no interest on her, but now I think he might have taken her back even if it's only because she is the only option, as we're all quarantined. I saw just the two of them hanging out both yesterday and today, and now I suspect there's something going on for real.

It's not only bad to see her everyday and not be with her (the thoughts of us spending all this quarantine situation together kills me, we would have so much time to enjoy each other), but now I have to see her charming the other guy and live with the doubt if there's something going on between them. I know I don't own her or that my friend owns me any satisfaction, but if I'm right about my thoughts, I admit I'd also feel very betrayed by my friend, so the whole situation really sucks.

My first thought is always to think about isolating myself to avoid the situation, but I don't want to stop hanging out with the only people I'm able to see for now and my T says I have to act normal and not let my ex dictate the rules and isolate me.

My T also says that if she was "happy" with having the other guy, she wouldn't bother hating me so much and saying all the bad things she says. Unfortunately I'm not sure my T understands the whole BPD situation but sometimes I agree with her, sometimes I don't. I don't know if there's actually any rule about not being painted super black as soon as they find your replacement, so I'm not sure what should I think.

T also says is not a good idea to approach my friend and ask if he is together with my ex since it may not be helpful at all knowing this and it may sound weak and desperate. T is also afraid that the news of me wanting to know the status of their relationship reaches my ex and that she hates me even more for trying to take care of her life when I have no say on what she does or who she sees.

I'd really appreciate any advice and words of wisdom to go through this situation! Thanks in advance!

[once removed]

i like your ts advice on this. there isnt really a lot to go on, if you were to go on anything.

i have an ex - one with bpd traits, who every blue moon likes to talk politics with me. i always tell myself i wont do it. i warn her. inevitably, she talks me into it. she gets very angry, gets very upset, and shes obnoxious as all hell to talk about the subject with anyway.

honestly man, if your ex is gonna freak out over board games, dont play board games with her. find something less competitive, or find something that only involves a few people at a time, or sit out a round, or find a role that doesnt involve you competing against her.

[hopeandbelief]

Thanks for always taking some time to reply onceremoved!

Her freaking out during the games is something that bothers me but not that much and I get what you're saying.

It's the whole situation with my friend that is bothering me so much right now. How do you think I should face things on that front? I'm holding myself to not ask for a conversation with him as I'm really disappointed, especially at him, if they are together (90% of chances right now, if you ask me).

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear hopeandbelief-

I’d also like to welcome you to our community.

I think that considering the sadness and confusion you’ve been feeling, you’re doing remarkably well on the “self-care” front in continuing to meet with your friends group.  This shows your inner strength.  And your values.  Many people would have NOT had your strength and would sadly choose self-exile and complete isolation.  Good for you, my friend.

As far as your friend, since he briefly dated your exuBPDgf (ex- undiagnosed BPD girlfriend) before you did, was there a conversation between you two guys BEFORE you and she dated?  If so, How did that go?  Is this guy one of your very best, closest friends?  Like a trusted friend from childhood?  Or is he more a neighbor/guy from your building friend?

Regardless, I’d keep my thoughts and questions about whether or not he’s seeing her to myself, unless he IS a childhood friend.  One who you’ve shared life’s happenings with for years?  And you are completely confident this conversation, about your pain, will remain held in CONFIDENCE.  Better and safer for you to talk about it here.

I know this hurts deeply and I’m sorry.  But sometimes it’s better to share our thoughts on certain things with people NOT directly involved, lest it can backfire.  Right now, you are reliant on this group of people for vital social interaction. 

Please be kind to yourself.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[hopeandbelief]

Dear Gemsforeyes, thank you so, so much for taking some time and answering my thread. It's funny how things work. Yesterday I saw your post on the thread How to respond to accusations? and I thought it was an amazing answer! I even came here to my thread to see if I would be able to tag you and see what thoughts you would have on my situation, and then today here it was, an answer for you! Thanks again!

I appreciate so much your kind words to me. Sometimes in the middle of all the sadness and confusion we're into, it's so hard to see that we're actually showing out strenght as well, so it was really important to me to read what you wrote.

As for my friend, yes, there as a conversation between us before I dated her. I took the initiative and asked him to talk. He accepted it really well, and since that time he was saying they aren't a good match and that he wasn't feeling a lot of things for her. I explained that I really liked her and that I'd like to give it a chance for us.

He isn't one of my closest friends, no. I know him for two years or something like that and we became really close friends now on quarantine but what bothers me is that we're seeing each other for the last four months everyday, and we had a few conversations about my exuBPDgf and he was very clear that he didn't like her at all and I trusted him and I was very clear (maybe even trusted him more than I should) when I told I still had feelings for her.

It bothers me a lot that he didn't had the decency to at least tell me there's something going on between them and I can't stop feeling like I was betrayed. Maybe I'm being inoocent and naive, I know, but it still sucks anyway. It doesn't help that he is much younger than me (early twenties / late twenties), so yeah, I know he may not be mature enough to deal with the situation the way I did or expected, but I can't stop thinking it's a character thing and not an age thing.

Talked to my T today once again and she is giving me similar advice as yours. "Only talk to him if you're sure he's not going to spread the news elsewhere" and if I do talk to him, to keep things as light as I can, since I'm not supposed to fit in a role of a victim of a betrayal and cause some stress within our group right now may backfire on me.

It's difficult to keep myself togehter since I'm a very transparent person. Today, for instance, it happened that I was with him, his sister and my exuBPDgf and I'm having a hard time to behave normally and pretend nothing is going on. I've barely exchanged any words with him and as hopeful as I am that the message I'm conveying is: "once you made your choice, you threw my friendship away", I still get the feeling that by staying a bit more quiet and grumpy, I'm the one making a negative impression over the rest of the group.

There's one more detail that I didn't mention earlier and that I can't get my head around. Early after our breakup, when I was starting to become closer to this other guy, my ex would message me saying I was an hypocritical and insincere person for hanging out with him because I used to talk a lot of bad stuff about him (which I never, never, never did). Honestly, this is one of the hugest red flags about my ex and even got me scared that she would make this kind of thing up for some reason (maybe to separate me and the other guy since she was friends with him).

Something tells me she might have gone a step forward with this sort of smear campaing and told that kind of thing to the guy and his sister. I'm not sure about this because both him and his sister always treated me well, but who knows. If it did happen, it sucks that I can't do anything since "anticipating a move" and trying to "defend" myself to anyone would only make me look more guilty.
 
Thanks once again for your message Gemsforeyes, it was incredibly important to me. Sorry for the long reply.

[once removed]

my very best friend since sixth grade went for a girl that i was seeing (after the fact). thats over twenty years of friendship.

the girl and i didnt pan out, and while i more or less got over it, i had some lingering resentment toward her.

he messaged me from a bar one night that he noticed she was there. i knew in a matter of minutes theyd be speaking  . and inevitably, a few days later, he basically asked me for permission to date her. i politely declined to say one way or the other, they dated for a bit and then broke up.

it happens. its a tale as old as time, really.

what isnt really clear to me here is, what is your basis for thinking something is going on between them beyond the fact that theyre hanging out? you mention her charming him for weeks - what does that mean in this context?

[hopeandbelief]

Hey onceremoved, once again thank you so much for always showing up on this thread and sharing your knowledge! I really appreciate it!

Well, at least your friend had the decency to message you . Seriously though, I think I'd act just like you if that happened to me: if my friend talked to me before it happened, I'd say he should do what he feels right and that I'm not the one to give permission for their relationship, but I'd be very glad that at least he spoke to me before it happened.

What I mean is that she is always joking and teasing him when we're playing games. She always wants to seat by his side and even got to the point of getting physical (like supporting her legs over his). When we're having conversations, she strongly disagrees with me all the time, even about subjects we had the same opinion when we were togehter. It's like he's split super white and I'm the bad guy no matter what I do. It sucks.

And I thought that the only upside of her getting with someone else after me is that she would stop bothering with me so much, but I guess she might hate me now because I'm kind of in the way of their relationship (?). Like, maybe they don't want to make it public because I'd be bothered by it, I don't know.

Sometimes I get the feeling that she wants everyone to know she may be with him but doesn't make it public. Just as an example: the group always stay together until 1 or 2 am, but there was a day everyone had already left and there was just the three of us. We left and I went to my building which is in one direction, while their buildings are in another. Even though she said goodbye to both of us, I could see they sat somewhere else and were still there together. Then the next day she says she went to sleep like 4 or 5 in the morning (extremely unusual for her). So I guess it's easy to read things on a negative way and imagine things (especially since she lives by herself and could bring him to her apartment anytime), but I also have a strong feeling about this and those small evidences that something's going on. A friend from outside of the group had the same impression when he saw them together (like sitting really close, talking with their faces close one another) as well and even came ask me if I was doing ok with the whole situation.

I'm still holding myself not to ask my friend what's going on but the doubt is killing me right now. Yes, there's a few % of all this being me freaking out and being paranoic, but I learnt we should always trust our intuition.   

[hopeandbelief]

Well, I guess we do always need to trust our intuition. It's still not official but it's pretty clear right now that they're together. Both friday and sunday, when the group got together, they both came from her apartment, meaning he was there with her for who knows how long.

I'm completely lost right now and don't know how to proceed. I had the chance to talk to my friend when we were just the two of us together, but I didn't say anything. I still feel betrayed by him and I'm feeling incredibly bad that neither of them had at least the decency to tell me there's something going on between them.

I know I have to carefully choose my words if I am to talk to him about my disappointment as I don't want to lose the rest of the group as well - and guess what, both his brother and sister are also part of the group - so he will obviously get the support of most people.

And I still can't get over the idea that she surely ran a smear campaign about me to my friend and maybe even to his brother and sister. Feels like I'm on the right side of the story but can't win no matter what I do, while she is with him and in good graces with all his family, probably painting me as the villain of the story. It has been so difficult to face this situation basically everyday.

[once removed]

I know I have to carefully choose my words if I am to talk to him about my disappointment as I don't want to lose the rest of the group as well - and guess what, both his brother and sister are also part of the group - so he will obviously get the support of most people.

confronting either of them about this will push them together, and push you out.

youll feel worse and more isolated than you do now.

do what anyone in your shoes would do right now: pull back from the group get togethers, if the two of them are going to be involved.

take one or two of your closest friends in the group, and seek to hang out with them together or one on one. dont mention why. dont mention the ex, or whether shes in a relationship. thats not the basis you want to form a bond on, and it will have the same negative effect. just enjoy them for their company.

meanwhile, find other friends, single friends, or a group.

if the two of them are together, its something you want to stay far away from, and let play out.

[hopeandbelief]

Thanks again for your kind advices onceremoved!
Yes, I'm keeping things to myself and to my T as of right now, just like you said.

The only difference is that my T doesn't think I need to step away from the group, at least not right now. Since they are not public together, I don't have to face really painful moment face to face and in front of me, so she says it is for the best if I don't let their possible relationship or whatever they're having to isolate me or stop me from doing things that I enjoy (like, the whole group exercise together almost everyday during the week). What do you think?

At the same time, I agree with you that I need to spend some time with other friends if possible, but it's tough due to quarantine. I'm doing and feeling much better now than I was on the weekend, so I'm hoping I'm slowly healing and accepting what you said: whatever they're having will have to play out on their terms and I don't have anything to do with it.

[once removed]

i tend to agree with your therapist that this isnt something thats official (at least not publicly), and you dont know for sure, and you dont want to overreact.

im a person thats kind of prone to obsession, and if i was where you are, whether they are together or not, it would be best for me to have less interaction, without blowing things up or being in everyones face about it. its definitely ideal that you dont let the actions of others dictate your own. its just a matter of whether being around the two of them is going to make things worse for you in the short term.