Validation troubles

[RestlessWanderer]

I’ve been trying to be validating of my uBPDw, but apparently I’m failing. At the same time I’m feeling no validation myself.
Today was a perfect example.
My wife woke me up some time around 2 or 3 am to give me the plan for today. As I recall it, she wanted me to take our son out for the day. She was going to meet up with a friend and later we’d surprise our son by getting together for dinner. She was going to go in her friends car so I said I’d like to take our truck since one of my favorite things to do is driving through the mountains of northern New Mexico where we live. When I told her that’s what I wanted to do, she said she wanted me to be reachable so it would be better if I just made sure I was somewhere with cell service. As I said, that’s how I recall the early morning/half asleep conversation.
Now fast forward a few hours. I got our son up and we left. I didn’t have a plan other than going somewhere to first get breakfast then to spend time outdoors. As we left I started to formulate a plan. After eating we went to a ski resort that has a frisbee golf course for the summer months. I sent a text to my wife to let her know where we were. I never got a response from her, which is nothing new so I didn’t think anything of it. I kept receiving various other alerts so I felt confident that I had decent cell service. I really wasn’t worrying about the absence of communication since we were planning on meeting up later in the day.
After we finished playing we decided to go get some ice cream. We headed to the nearest ice cream shop, which happens to be in the next town over, so I knew we would have good cell service there. Once we had our ice cream I sent another text telling her where we were. Still no response. So I called our home and her cell. No answer from either phone. Again, not abnormal. I then contacted my mom to see if she had noticed if my wife had left. She had apparently just pulled out. A few minutes later I started to receive messages from my wife. She was not happy, and it was my fault.
She was upset with me for a few reasons. She said she had been trying to call me for several hours. She apparently had a dead battery in the car and had to walk to a neighbors house to find someone to jump the battery. She refused to ask my mom for help despite the fact that it was the most convenient, simplest, and certain source of help. She said she also had needed me to contact her friend for her to let her know about the delay.  Then, when she found out that I had decided to go some where far away, that added injury to insult.
Since she had left so late, the day was essentially ruined. But at least we had a good day. Which of course was also irritating.
When we were finally able to talk she let me know that she was upset for not only ruining her plans but also for ignoring her and going somewhere far away. As she talked about the many ways that I had messed things up, she also let me know that her friend and her friend’s mother both agreed with her. I stayed quiet because I figured she wouldn’t accept anything I would say as reasonable or true.
We ended up meeting and having dinner with her friend. Which turned out to be a relatively good time. Later, once we got home, she talked calmly about how frustrating it was to be ignored and have her day ruined. Again I bit my tongue. I eventually tried to say something about my perspective. I chose to bring up the fact that I didn’t seem to be anywhere without service for very long so I didn’t understand and couldn’t explain why I had missed so many calls. That’s all it took to get her upset again and refuse to listen to me.
I thought my actions were validating and in-line with her wishes. But when it turns out they weren’t, and I’m not given a chance to be heard I feel a range of frustrations, hopelessness and sadness.
Sorry for the long winded post. I did my best to relay the events as concisely and unbiased as I could. This is an example of a familiar scene that plays out on a nearly daily basis.

[RestlessWanderer]

I should add that I find it very hard to believe that she actually had car trouble or any  trouble calling me. But that’s just my opinion.

[Rev]

I thought my actions were validating and in-line with her wishes. But when it turns out they weren’t, and I’m not given a chance to be heard I feel a range of frustrations, hopelessness and sadness.

Hi Restless,

You've not asked a question here or made a request.  So I will simply say that I've read this - was often left scratching my head in my failed relationship. Sometimes left doubting myself in ways that were not healthy.

So, yeah. I hear you.

Hang in there.

Rev

[RestlessWanderer]

I guess I was looking for anyone else’s perspective on this. And underneath it all I’m probably looking for validation here.

[formflier]

I'll give you validation and agreement that what you described is a bizarre way to conduct a relationship.   

    I'm sorry, that's got to be hard to so often bite your tongue instead of attempt productive conversation.

I do want to encourage you by saying I see lots and lots of areas where you can change the dynamic, without any agreement or input from your wife.

Does that sound like something you would want to discuss?

OBTW...the day with your son sounds wonderful!

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Thank you FF. This forum is such a blessing and so many of us find the validation and sanity checks here.
By all means, share your thoughts and observations. Yet another valuable resource found here.
RW

[JaneWrites]

Hi FF -

I'll be following your input how RW could change the dynamic

I feel like wonderful days away from my pwBPD is filled with a brooding that the return is going to go sideways.

RW, I feel your post.

[formflier]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating



I put these articles down in no particular order.  Please read them (probably a few times) and then I'm interested in your thoughts on what you have read.

Which article (or topic) do you feel is most important?  Why?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks FF. I like the first one with a variety of alternatives to use. That could be useful in many different situations. I’ve read through the other two before. I’ll think about your questions and respond a little later.

[Cat Familiar]

Validation is really a tricky topic. One single invalidating comment can undo the good that 20 validating comments have made.

It’s damned unfair and really irritating too. It really frustrated me until I started figuring out what exactly my husband would think of as invalidating. Prior to that, I just spoke my mind, and then in retrospect I’d realize that something I’d said, which seemed so innocuous to me, was invalidating to him.

It seemed almost impossible to monitor my communication so closely, but over time, it became easy, and though I still blunder with an invalidating comment now and then, I’m able to fix it in real time before it does any damage.

[RestlessWanderer]

Cat, I don’t know I could ever get to the point of learning to validate her without simultaneously becoming complicit with the accusations, blame, and outrageous ideas that are the basis of her patterns of behavior. I hope that means that you aren’t facing the same difficult options. I hope it means that what you’ve learned to validate hasn’t sacrificed your integrity.
Bless you and your decision to stay.

[formflier]

It’s damned unfair and really irritating too. It really frustrated me until I started figuring out what exactly my husband would think of as invalidating. Prior to that, I just spoke my mind, and then in retrospect I’d realize that something I’d said, which seemed so innocuous to me, was invalidating to him.
 

I could have written this exact thing.

I'm getting much better at "validating questions".  I stick suck at straight up validating.  Somehow I think that's different than "just empathy and listening".

What I did figure out and got really good at was "avoiding invalidation". 

In my "story", my wife was paranoid about a lot of things..primarily that I had a harem of women all begging for just a piece of FF's mojo (most likely has something to do with my Naval Aviators mustache)

https://hushkit.net/2018/12/03/the-top-34-pilots-moustaches/

Anyone needing to take a break to compose yourselves after imagining the magnitude of my mojo...I'll give you a moment...

 

Anyway, my wife would theorize and I would (as part of defending myself) prove her theories wrong and "prove" that I was a loving and loyal husband.  (Sounds great..right?)

Except that my wife "felt" that I was not...she felt really really strongly that things were off in her marriage.  Did I validate that or invalidate that by proving her wrong?

Think about that for a second.

Basically each story I would disprove would initially seem to calm things, then a while later "it" would come bag bigger and badder.  I would disprove, a while of calm..."it's" back bigger and badder.

Wash rinse repeat.      That was my life for several years prior to this site.

Got so bad my wife picked out a child (baby) that she believed was mine and did some  low level stalking of the woman she believed I was doing the deed with.

That was a bad couple of years..really bad.

Well...once I stopped invalidating, things turned around and the stories mostly went away.  That calmed things and allowed me to sort out some other skills.

I definitely figured out "invalidation" first and then sorted out boundaries.

Anyway...long way of saying I would encourage you to evaluate ways you may be invalidating (and stop doing those things) rather than try to be a better validater.

At least focus on invalidating first.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

You'll often see "Don't validate the invalid" on this site and if you don't do that, there's no sacrifice of your integrity.

If you haven't read this article on validation, it's a helpful overview.

Like FF, I first started learning how not to be invalidating.

A recent example comes to mind. Our elderly goat finally passed on at age 15 1/2. I was sure we were going to lose him a year ago. As my husband and I buried him, we reminisced about his life and how he was so highly regarded by our younger goats. At one point, my husband said, "And I named him..."

That was inaccurate, because he named this goat's brother, Sparky, who we lost a number of years ago, and I named this one Gizmo.

In the past, I would have corrected him, but I smiled to myself and thought about how he has a need to feel like he was participatory in Gizmo's life, even though he doesn't do anything with the animals, and burying the goat was probably the only time he touched him other than maybe once when he was a youngster.

Though I didn't "set the record straight" I thought why would this be important? Who cares who named him? But in the past, these questions wouldn't have occurred to me as I wanted to establish "the truth."  And doing so over something so inconsequential would have resulted in my husband feeling attacked perhaps, just because I challenged his memory.

Would I have said something if it were something important? Of course.

I was just glad that he was pitching in to do physical work which is not in his wheelhouse, as he doesn't like to get dirty, nor does he like breaking a sweat, especially on a hot day.

[formflier]

Often...like in Cat's story, just being quiet gets the job done.

As you know, many times they "come at you" with crazy questions which seem to demand an answer...right now.

1.  Realize it's a false sense of urgency (but don't explain that to them)...and also

2.  Learn how to kick the issue to the future, while validating/empathizing/listening right now.

"Ohh babe, that sounds awfully important to you.  Let me give it some thought and we can talk more after dinner...maybe with a drink."

blah blah blah... right now...you don't care...my crazy aunt...witches on broomsticks

"Oh babe, it's because it's so important that I'm going to give it my full attention for a while before answering.  "

The exact words aren't important...what is important is you get the gist of it.  Your issue is so important that I simply won't hurry...but I can listen now and make sure I hear you the way you want to be heard.

Guess what...many times after dinner with a nice drink they have forgotten what was so important and are ok with talking about something much more pleasant.

Wash..rinse..repeat.  Next thing you know it's a totally different vibe in your r/s.

Best,

FF

[JaneWrites]

blah blah blah... right now...you don't care...my crazy aunt...witches on broomsticks

 

Oh thank you for the laugh and distillation of a common experience for many of us!

Cat, my husband claims credit for things like jokes we've enjoyed over the years that I remember distinctly coming up with. It's maddening!

[RestlessWanderer]

“I’m not being mean, but you don’t deserve me. I deserve better.”
-my wife, a few minutes ago

[JaneWrites]

Restless Wanderer, I'm sorry you are hearing this nastiness right now. I think what's important to keep in mind is that she's upset and feeling invalidated and what's she's *actually saying* doesn't really matter. She does mean to hurt you, sure, but the actual words are all nonsense. My husband has admitted that to me and I didn't get it until I learned about BPD.

Maybe this would work?
"Wow - I'm so sorry you feel that way. That must be a horrible feeling. That is certainly upsetting for me to hear so I need some time to myself. Let's talk later."